Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 6, 2018, at 2:39 PM, r.stricklin wrote: > On Dec 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech wrote: > >> The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a >> text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal. > > The bwone is a 1024x1024 framebuffer. 768 lines visible; the rest was > offscreen. Josh is correct, 800 lines visible. I was thinking of something else. ok bear. -- until further notice
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech wrote: > The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a > text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal. The bwone is a 1024x1024 framebuffer. 768 lines visible; the rest was offscreen. ok bear. -- until further notice
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 21:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Definitions tend to be RIGID, but completely arbitrary. > "MEGAPIXEL" is nice, but enough to EXCLUDE 1024 x 800 ? Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. > "First": The author is unaware of anything prior, or all prior instances > were in some way uninteresting and unacceptable for the author's use. eg. > "Apple2 was the first personal computer", "first book typed on a word > processor", etc. A fair cop. > "Workstation": Any location where an oppressed worker is compelled to > toil. Ouch. I have one of those. > "Multimedia": Two or more Kodak Carousel projectors with a soundtrack. > (college "DEFINITION", not "example"!, from half a century ago) Heh. > One day, our otherwise very dignified department chair came running into > the student computer lab (3 dozen 386SX generic PCs), yelling "We're > getting SUNS! We're getting SUNS! The loading dock just told me that > there are three big boxes labelled 'Multimedia Workstation'!". Later that > day, two of the three boxes arrived (the third had been pilfered by an > administrator). They were fancy wheeled computer desks for the demo > machines in our classrooms, to replace the vintage 5150 rolling > standup presentation carts that had been the right height (projector > should be taller than desk) and lockable. Oh, the humanity... I must admit, at the time, I liked the "3M" definition. It's also a nod to the famed 3M corporation, which was one of the first I met to successfully pretty much completely obscure what the three Ems actually stood for, so diversified was its business that it was no longer anything to do with its actual name. So conflating 3 entirely unrelated Ems together, and the facetious ETLA-style *fourth* Em, was, ISTM, a facetious reference to this. It seemed like a laudable goal at the time. Now, we all have them, and we've totally squandered that power. It is to weep. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
It???s a Sun-2 so it???s not really arguable whether it???s the first ever Sun workstation: It???s not. Definitions tend to be RIGID, but completely arbitrary. "MEGAPIXEL" is nice, but enough to EXCLUDE 1024 x 800 ? "First": The author is unaware of anything prior, or all prior instances were in some way uninteresting and unacceptable for the author's use. eg. "Apple2 was the first personal computer", "first book typed on a word processor", etc. "Workstation": Any location where an oppressed worker is compelled to toil. "Multimedia": Two or more Kodak Carousel projectors with a soundtrack. (college "DEFINITION", not "example"!, from half a century ago) One day, our otherwise very dignified department chair came running into the student computer lab (3 dozen 386SX generic PCs), yelling "We're getting SUNS! We're getting SUNS! The loading dock just told me that there are three big boxes labelled 'Multimedia Workstation'!". Later that day, two of the three boxes arrived (the third had been pilfered by an administrator). They were fancy wheeled computer desks for the demo machines in our classrooms, to replace the vintage 5150 rolling standup presentation carts that had been the right height (projector should be taller than desk) and lockable.
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 19:55, Josh Dersch wrote: > > The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a text-only > machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal. > > See the picture in this article, for example: > https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sun-Microsystems-Inc FWIW, no pic for me in that article. But yes, I skim-read the wikipedia page and got the wrong impression. I've already confessed and apologised in this thread. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:39 AM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it > was > > made by Sun. > > > > I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be > the > > 'first' model. > > Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with > the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum > back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the > world of academic Unix usage. :-) > > Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was > a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's > not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no > windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation. > The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal. See the picture in this article, for example: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sun-Microsystems-Inc - Josh
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
> On Dec 6, 2018, at 3:00 AM, Liam Proven via cctech > wrote: > >> On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson wrote: >> >> It’s a Sun-2 so it’s not really arguable whether it’s the first ever Sun >> workstation: It’s not. > > Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if > you're on the Rescue List. Isn’t the author’s claim that this was Sun’s first server? alan > > But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is, > if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap > display... > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie
On 06/12/2018 12:28, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation. That's simply not true. The first Sun 1 was actually designed as a CAD system, and did indeed have graphics. *Does* have graphics, I should say, as I've seen it. -- Pete Pete Turnbull
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie
On 06/12/2018 11:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:19 AM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson wrote: It’s a Sun-2 so it’s not really arguable whether it’s the first ever Sun workstation: It’s not. But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is, if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap display... I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was made by Sun. I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the 'first' model. Particularly since I know someone, not far from here, who has a Sun 1. -- Pete Pete Turnbull
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 15:13, allison via cctech wrote: > During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was > 1MIPS processing power, > 1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact). Graphics and > processing power were high > and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well. Most of the machines > were RISC based, > Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered. Reminiscent of NeXT's "3M computer": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_computer 1 megapixel, 1 megabyte, 1 MIPS. ISTM that the Sun-1 fails the megapixel requirement, but on further reading, e.g. http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/computer-graphics-music-and-art/15/218/615 , only narrowly. I think I scanned the Wikipedia article too quickly this morning... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
RE: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
-Original Message- From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of allison via cctech Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: cct...@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install) On 12/06/2018 07:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctech wrote: > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell wrote: >> I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was >> made by Sun. >> >> I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the >> 'first' model. > Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with > the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum > back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the > world of academic Unix usage. :-) > > Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was > a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's > not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no > windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation. > > But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies, > and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little... During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was 1MIPS processing power, 1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact). Graphics and processing power were high and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well. Most of the machines were RISC based, Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered. Allsion - And cost no more than a "megapenny" ;->. See the CMU "3M" definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_computer -
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On 12/06/2018 07:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctech wrote: > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell wrote: >> I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was >> made by Sun. >> >> I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the >> 'first' model. > Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with > the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum > back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the > world of academic Unix usage. :-) > > Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was > a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's > not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no > windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation. > > But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies, > and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little... > > During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was 1MIPS processing power, 1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact). Graphics and processing power were high and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well. Most of the machines were RISC based, Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered. Allsion
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell wrote: > > I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was > made by Sun. > > I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the > 'first' model. Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the world of academic Unix usage. :-) Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation. But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies, and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:19 AM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson wrote: > > > > It’s a Sun-2 so it’s not really arguable whether it’s the first ever Sun > > workstation: It’s not. > > Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if > you're on the Rescue List. > > But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is, > if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap > display... I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was made by Sun. I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the 'first' model. -tony
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson wrote: > > It’s a Sun-2 so it’s not really arguable whether it’s the first ever Sun > workstation: It’s not. Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if you're on the Rescue List. But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is, if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap display... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 5, 2018, at 3:59 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > I thought folk might enjoy this short-ish (~12min) Youtube video > showing startup of arguably the first ever Sun workstation It’s a Sun-2 so it’s not really arguable whether it’s the first ever Sun workstation: It’s not. -- Chris
Fwd: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
I thought folk might enjoy this short-ish (~12min) Youtube video showing startup of arguably the first ever Sun workstation, from a contemporaneous SunOS... I did. Permission obtained before x-posting, naturally. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Forwarded message - From: Walter Belgers Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 12:34 Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install) To: The Rescue List Hi, Another update in case you are interested: I rescued a keyboard and mouse to go with the Sun2. I also installed SunOS 3.2 on disk. I took a different route: I installed FreeBSD, installed tme on top of that and using the information at https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/ <https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/>, http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Sun2 <http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Sun2> and http://typewritten.org/Projects/Sun/8-4841.html <http://typewritten.org/Projects/Sun/8-4841.html> I installed SunOS 3.2 from virtual tapes onto a virtual harddrive. I then copied the virtual drive to a real drive and hooked it up. I could then boot SunOS 3.2! I then took the one TTL monitor I have (for the 2/50) and hooked it up to a bwtwo. At first it did not work, apparently it must be in a specific slot. I added 1MB as well, so the cage is fully populated. That extra MB is used by the btwo. The monitor still worked and I was able to run the graphical windowing system. I had the system on the internet for a couple of hours yesterday, some people logged in remotely and it still felt surprisingly fast. Only when you start hammering the disk it is slow (SCSI-1 is slower than ESDI drives I read). I made a movie of the box, it can be viewed here: https://youtu.be/CoAYs0Uc7As <https://youtu.be/CoAYs0Uc7As> Cheers, Walter. ___ rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
