DEC mouse
Looking to complete a period-correct DEC workstation? Missing the right mouse? Have I got a deal for you! Digital 3-button mouse part number 30-5-01 rev. C02. PS/2 connector, ball mechanism (not one of those fancy new things with the red light on the bottom). Free for actual cost of shipping. This wasn't what I was looking for in storage either.
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Fri, 2018-05-04 08:13:05 +0100, mark--- via cctalk wrote: > The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as well as LK keyboards), > the opposite of what you are interested in. > So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented. > It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the > reverse. > > See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html Adding another reply: I wouldn't recommend to use the driver source code as a starting point, but rather fetch DEC's specs about the two mice (VSXXX-AA and VSXXX-GA) and their tablet (VSXXX-AB), which are all described in the "VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual", available here: https://www.vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-104AA-TM-001;id=21;cp=1 MfG, JBG --
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Fri, 2018-05-04 08:13:05 +0100, mark--- via cctalk wrote: > The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as well as LK keyboards), > the opposite of what you are interested in. > So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented. > It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the > reverse. > > See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html I think that it should be quite straight-forward to use an Arduino to mimic a VSXXX-AA mouse. Some time ago, somebody even contacted me with exactly this in mind, and I remember he found public code already available to implement exactly what you're looking for. *searching* https://bitbucket.org/tinyscsi/decmouse/src/fc73c57dce5926ac1ab9f0958ba82cf1e8cbe88e/DECMouse.ino?at=master=file-view-default Maybe this'll (at least) help you implementing something with an Arduino, or even solve your issue completely. Reading the source, the PS/2 mouse is attached to two GPIO pins in that sketch (#5 for data, #6 for clock), and the VAXstation will be connected to Arduino's serial port. (Keep in mind that you'll want do have a level shifter in between, some MAX232 variant.) MfG, JBG --
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
I had run into those bits on the web and also a ps2 driver for the arduino on github. The protocols are similar for the PS2 mouse and the DEC mouse, 3 bytes encoded with movement data. Generic PS/2 Mouse Packet Bits BYTE 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 0 yo xo ys xs ao bm br bl 1 xm 2 ym Code Description yo Y-Axis Overflow xo X-Axis Overflow ys Y-Axis Sign Bit (9-Bit Y-Axis Relative Offset) xs X-Axis Sign Bit (9-Bit X-Axis Relative Offset) ao Always One bm Button Middle (Normally Off = 0) br Button Right (Normally Off = 0) bl Button Left (Normally Off = 0) xm X-Axis Movement Value ym Y-Axis Movement Value DEC mouse bits (4800 Baud RS232) BYTE 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 sx sy l m r 1 xm 2 ym Code Description sy Y-Axis Sign Bit sx X-Axis Sign Bit ao Always One l,m,r Left, Middle, Right button xm X-Axis Movement Value ym Y-Axis Movement Value This level of similarity made me think that a simple controller like the arduino could easily handle this. Doug On 5/4/2018 3:13 AM, mark--- via cctalk wrote: The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as well as LK keyboards), the opposite of what you are interested in. So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented. It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse. See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html The major issue implementing support for DEC mice under Linux is the requirement for a -12v power rail - clearly this isn't an issue with a modern day replacement (I suspect it is a red-herring anyway for standard mice, just because-12v exists at the DEC connector doesn't mean it is used, possibly it was for digitizers for example). The DEC mouse protocol is described here: http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/104aatm1.pdf, section C6 onwards. Regards, Mark. -Original Message- From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctalk Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:06 AM To: Douglas Taylor <dj.tayl...@comcast.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse and I move it from machine to machine. The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to be that much different. Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? The jack is different, that would be a factor too. B
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill > Gunshannon > > via cctalk > > Sent: 04 May 2018 12:57 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement > > > > > > > > On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > > > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one > > > mouse and I move it from machine to machine. > > > > > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem > > > to be that much different. > > > > > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > > > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC > mouse? > > > > > Anything is possible. :-) I have often wondered about using a modern PC > > mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I > never > > thought about the Arduino route. While it seems like overkill, I would > bet it > > would work quite well. > > > > I have seen lots of similar projects using PIC chips. The smaller chips > may require assembler coding, but you can get them in small enough form > factors so that they can be inserted in the cable near the plug, and > covered in heatshrink.. > Back in the day, there were a lot of these sorts of things on the web. I had (still have) a newton keyboard that I interfaced to my (a) dec rainbow and (b) Sun 4 workstation. Of course, I did it with special drivers, not hardware (since I did it just before PICs got cheap and easy). There were many web site online that had PIC or other uC designs for this. As well as all the other, non-standard crazy stuff that was in the marketplace: Sun mice / keyboards, DEC gear, Amiga stuff, VT100 keyboards, etc. It was quite the scene, in 1994-5 or so... Last few times I tried to google it, none of the web sites that came up were still around. I can't even find my newton keyboard to x11 program... Oh, wait, I did find this: http://www.uinet.or.jp/~osamu-o/NewtonKeyboard/index.html which shows how to interface it to an AT... Warner
RE: DEC Mouse replacement
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > via cctalk > Sent: 04 May 2018 12:57 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement > > > > On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one > > mouse and I move it from machine to machine. > > > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem > > to be that much different. > > > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? > > > Anything is possible. :-) I have often wondered about using a modern PC > mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I never > thought about the Arduino route. While it seems like overkill, I would bet it > would work quite well. > I have seen lots of similar projects using PIC chips. The smaller chips may require assembler coding, but you can get them in small enough form factors so that they can be inserted in the cable near the plug, and covered in heatshrink.. Dave G4UGM > bill
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On 05/03/2018 10:14 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > how abut forgethe the adreno... chop connector off. rewire a ps2 mouse and > just use it? > > I really don't think it is that easy. Knowing how IBM tried to control the market I doubt there is anything beyond basic similarity in the protocol. Is the DEC Mouse protocol actually documented anywhere? bill
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On 05/03/2018 10:06 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I >> have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse >> and I move it from machine to machine. >> >> The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to >> be that much different. >> >> Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and >> then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? >> > The jack is different, that would be a factor too. > B Yes, but if one has broken DEC mice that problem is solved. bill
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On 05/03/2018 09:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one > mouse and I move it from machine to machine. > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem > to be that much different. > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? > Anything is possible. :-) I have often wondered about using a modern PC mouse on a VaxStation 3100 but never got around to trying anything. I never thought about the Arduino route. While it seems like overkill, I would bet it would work quite well. bill
RE: DEC Mouse replacement
The Linux Kernel has support for DEC VSXXX mouse (as well as LK keyboards), the opposite of what you are interested in. So the conversion from DEC protocol is well documented. It would be fairly straightforward with a microcontroller to implement the reverse. See: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/input/mouse/vsxxxaa.c.html The major issue implementing support for DEC mice under Linux is the requirement for a -12v power rail - clearly this isn't an issue with a modern day replacement (I suspect it is a red-herring anyway for standard mice, just because-12v exists at the DEC connector doesn't mean it is used, possibly it was for digitizers for example). The DEC mouse protocol is described here: http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/dec/manuals/decimages/104aatm1.pdf, section C6 onwards. Regards, Mark. -Original Message- From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctalk Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 3:06 AM To: Douglas Taylor <dj.tayl...@comcast.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: DEC Mouse replacement On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one > mouse and I move it from machine to machine. > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem > to be that much different. > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? > The jack is different, that would be a factor too. B >
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
how abut forgethe the adreno... chop connector off. rewire a ps2 mouse and just use it? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, May 3, 2018 Bill Degnan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse > and I move it from machine to machine. > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to > be that much different. > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? > The jack is different, that would be a factor too. B >
Re: DEC Mouse replacement
On Thu, May 3, 2018, 9:38 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I > have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse > and I move it from machine to machine. > > The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to > be that much different. > > Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and > then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse? > The jack is different, that would be a factor too. B >
DEC Mouse replacement
I would like to have a couple more DEC Mice for some Vaxestations I have, but they seem to be pretty rare. At present I only have one mouse and I move it from machine to machine. The protocols for the DEC mice and the standard PS/2 mice don't seem to be that much different. Is it possible to use an arduino to translate PS/2 mouse output and then send it to the vaxstation so that will it mimic a classic DEC mouse?
