Fwd: curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.]

[jim stephens]

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in 
eastern US.]

Date:   Wed, 23 Nov 2016 02:00:07 +
From:   Rich Alderson <ri...@livingcomputers.org>
Reply-To: 	General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: 	'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>




From: jim stephens
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:21 PM


the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system
that ran on mainframes at the time.


You're going to have to be more specific than that.  At what time?  On
what mainframe(s)?  Are you saying that by the time Ultimate, whatever
that is when it's at home, was running, no other non-IBM OSes were
running on IBM hardware, all others being dead?  Or that Ultimate was
earlier than, say, MTS on IBM hardware?  And are you claiming that no
other manufacturers' systems are mainframes?  What are you saying?

Rich

At the time the only OS's were VM and MVS on IBM hardware as far as IBM was
concerned for maintenance purposes.  If you had MTS or anything else they
would run diagnostics for you at most on a contract, then hit the door.

If Ultimate had a problem with running, there was a support path for that
OS and it was not an IBM OS.  The hardware calls related to problems with
the OS not working would not be billed T by IBM like they would be for
any other service calls.

If an IBM CE came on site and saw Ultimate it would come up on his little
radio gizmo and not be totally unsupported.

Ultimate's OS from about 81 thru maybe 88 when Ultimate collapsed and support
was taken over by the Florida guys who bought the software rights eventually
was the only OS like that.

You could boot and run anything you wanted to, but if you had a problem and
an IBM service contract, you would get billed T for the call unless their
diagnostics showed something.  With Ultimate, they would run whatever we 
directed
them to if it got to that, and the support call would be in scope of the 
contract.

Thanks
Jim

 

curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.]

[Rich Alderson]

From: jim stephens
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:21 PM

> the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system 
> that ran on mainframes at the time.

You're going to have to be more specific than that.  At what time?  On
what mainframe(s)?  Are you saying that by the time Ultimate, whatever
that is when it's at home, was running, no other non-IBM OSes were
running on IBM hardware, all others being dead?  Or that Ultimate was
earlier than, say, MTS on IBM hardware?  And are you claiming that no
other manufacturers' systems are mainframes?  What are you saying?

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputers.org

http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[jim stephens]

On 11/22/2016 2:56 PM, Paul Berger wrote:


The channel adapter on the Series/1 had a rather large flaw, if you 
did not disable the interface before shutting down the Series/1 it 
would upset the channel it was attached to causing a flurry of channel 
checks that could bring the host system to its knees.  When I worked 
in the IBM Toronto Lab we had two channel attached Series/1 machines 
with 72MD diskette units that we used to create diskettes from images 
sent to us and also to send diskette images.  These Series/1s 
pretended to be a 3270 control unit so that the MVS host system knew 
how to talk to them.
the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system 
that ran on mainframes at the time.  The supervisor or in Pick terms, 
Monitor handled such things with code specific to Pick.  I don't know 
that it would have caused the system to stop, but I'd doubt it, as we 
had a complete setup to test it with, and running with parts turned off 
after system boot would have been tested.


All of the channels, 7171, Series 1, and Hyfas channels were all run in 
a different mode than most anywhere in IBM, though I understand the mode 
was supported w/o firmware mods on all systems.  I'd have loved to have 
heard the L2 and L3 calls if anyone called with complaints though.  Our 
support contract with IBM essentially made us L3 for everything we had, 
but we had access to all PMR's as well as PMR's filed against systems 
with our software.  I say to all PMR's as the access has vastly 
narrowed, but we had access for supporting our own VM/SP, so we could 
search for problems and get APARs.


All of our systems were hooked up via a channel switch to three systems, 
a 4381, 9121, and a 9370.  All had some dedicated DASD, but unique items 
such as a couple of tape drives, the 7171, and the Series one were all 
on the switch to be moved to each system to see what happened.


We also conned IBM into a CHIM as well as set of hardware and software 
to enable Microchannel machines to be either a channel, or to run 
channel attached hardware.


Also, note that Mike Ross has a CHIM, which I am not sure he knows is a 
CHIM.


http://www.corestore.org/360tester-1.jpg

At least the box we had matched this.  We were hoping that IBM would 
forget it when we started to get where our facility would shut down, as 
we were the only account left in Orange County with 370 or 360 channels, 
but the found it.


Also had a custom instruction trace firmware for the 4381 for being able 
to trace some performances with deposits into lower memory.


thanks
Jim

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[jim stephens]

On 11/22/2016 10:09 AM, william degnan wrote:

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr
>wrote:

> >The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There

>were

> >originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later...
Ultimate's Pick implementation for the IBM mainframe had a channel 
attached Series One with serial channels available for communications to 
IBM 3151 ASCII terminals.  if you ran the usual pile that IBM had, there 
was a program that ran in the Series one that put up a screen similar to 
a 3270 on each 3151 terminal, and acted much like a 3270 terminal, but 
with Ascii terminals and using cursor control and the like to do the 
screens.


A standalone controller, the 7171 also did that as well.

On the 9121 mainframes there was a 68000 equipped board and subsystem 
called the Hyfas that did the same directly from boards in the 9121 chassis.


IBM disclosed Ultimate on a method to bypass the 3270 software and do 
direct I/O for byte I/O to use the terminals on all three of these 
subsystems like direct attached Ascii terminals.


Also there was a Pick Series one implementation by Pick Blue in Seattle.

I also know that some number of Sears Roebuck stores had Series One 
systems for their POS control in each store up to the end of life of 
pretty much a real Sears chain, and the product.  There was a large 
flood of systems at the time that the IBM POS systems were converted to 
some other backend system (I didn't track what the replacement 
configuration was).


I've not set foot in a Sears store in 30 years due to them screwing me 
in 1976, so don't know much about any of their gear since, but I am 
pretty sure on the Series One from some people who acquired systems at 
that time, in the early 90s.

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[william degnan]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr 
> wrote:
> > The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There
> were
> > originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later...
>
> ISTR having to mod our 3780 COMBOARD code to talk to a Series/1 in
> about 1992 or so because someone in WI bought our VAXBI COMBOARD to
> send EDI purchase reqs to a vendor network run by IBM and the device
> on the other end of our customer's modem was a Series/1 that didn't
> quite exactly implement 3780 like all the IBM products before it.
>
> -ethan
>

Whomever gets this, I donated my Series/1 to the VCFed Museum in Wall NJ,
and if you want to check it out for comparison purposes, I would be happy
to help set up an appointment to inspect it.  Also, I have some notes about
the system I had, which is very similar to the Series/1 on craigslist.  I
was able to IPL it, but did not do much else.

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=12
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ibm/Series1/
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=206

Bill

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr  wrote:
> The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There were
> originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later...

ISTR having to mod our 3780 COMBOARD code to talk to a Series/1 in
about 1992 or so because someone in WI bought our VAXBI COMBOARD to
send EDI purchase reqs to a vendor network run by IBM and the device
on the other end of our customer's modem was a Series/1 that didn't
quite exactly implement 3780 like all the IBM products before it.

-ethan

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Evan Koblentz]

The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There were
originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later.  I always knew
them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named because
they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was headquartered in
Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done in Boca Raton, FL).


We'd get it for the VCFed museum, but we already have one and 
time/bandwidth are spread thin right now.

RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Dave Wade]

When I worked on the UK Universities X.25 networking software we used Series/1s 
for interfacing the x.25 to VM/370 as IBM had X.25 and Channel hardware for the 
s/1.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy
> Sotomayor Jr
> Sent: 22 November 2016 07:31
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
> 
> The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There were
> originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later.  I always knew
> them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named
> because they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was
> headquartered in Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done
> in Boca Raton, FL).
> 
> TTFN - Guy
> 
> > On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > what is it?  looks too new  for me, do not remember this  one
> > Ed#
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> > drlegen...@gmail.com writes:
> >
> > The  vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-)
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21,  2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca
> > <steve.mare...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at  10:50 PM, Ian Finder <ian.fin...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Someone go rescue this:
> >>> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
> >>>
> >>> Or  palletize it and send it to me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>   Ian Finder
> >>>   (206)  395-MIPS
> >>>   ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ian.fin...@gmail.com');>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>  Ian Finder
> >>>   (206) 395-MIPS
> >>>  ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >>>
> >> I'm in CT close enough to  make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Steve
> >>
> >

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[COURYHOUSE]

Ah! Ok!  
heard of  it  but never seen an installation.
Great  find!
I am a little  foggy on it  but I somehow  remember  it  being able to 
control external devices  for process use
vs. the usual IBM stuff that  was just 'data processing'
Ed#
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/22/2016 12:31:26 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
g...@shiresoft.com writes:

The IBM  Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There  were
originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later.  I  always knew
them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so  named because
they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was  headquartered in
Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done  in Boca Raton, 
FL).

TTFN - Guy

> On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11  PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> what is it?  looks too  new  for me, do not remember this  one
>  Ed#

> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M.  US Mountain Standard Time,  
> drlegen...@gmail.com writes:
>  
> The  vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven..  ;-)
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21,  2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven  Maresca  

> wrote:
>  
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at  10:50 PM, Ian Finder   
> wrote:
>> 
>>>  Someone go rescue this:
>>>  http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
>>>  
>>> Or  palletize it and send it to me.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> --
>>>   Ian  Finder
>>>   (206)   395-MIPS
>>>   ian.fin...@gmail.com
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  --
>>>  Ian Finder
>>>   (206)  395-MIPS
>>>  ian.fin...@gmail.com
>>>  
>> I'm in CT close enough to  make a rescue..I've reached out  to the 
poster.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>>  
> 

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr]

The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988.  There were
originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later.  I always knew
them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named because
they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was headquartered in
Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done in Boca Raton, FL).

TTFN - Guy

> On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> what is it?  looks too new  for me, do not remember this  one
> Ed#
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> drlegen...@gmail.com writes:
> 
> The  vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-)
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21,  2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at  10:50 PM, Ian Finder  
> wrote:
>> 
>>> Someone go rescue this:
>>> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
>>> 
>>> Or  palletize it and send it to me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>>   Ian Finder
>>>   (206)  395-MIPS
>>>   ian.fin...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>>  Ian Finder
>>>   (206) 395-MIPS
>>>  ian.fin...@gmail.com
>>> 
>> I'm in CT close enough to  make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>> 
> 

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[COURYHOUSE]

what is it?  looks too new  for me, do not remember this  one
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
drlegen...@gmail.com writes:

The  vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-)

On Mon, Nov 21,  2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca  
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at  10:50 PM, Ian Finder  
wrote:
>
> >  Someone go rescue this:
> >  http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
> >
> > Or  palletize it and send it to me.
> >
> >
> >  --
> >Ian Finder
> >(206)  395-MIPS
> >ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >  
>  >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >   Ian Finder
> >(206) 395-MIPS
> >   ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >
> I'm in CT close enough to  make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster.
>
>  Regards,
>  Steve
>

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[drlegendre .]

The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-)

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca 
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:
>
> > Someone go rescue this:
> > http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
> >
> > Or palletize it and send it to me.
> >
> >
> > --
> >Ian Finder
> >(206) 395-MIPS
> >ian.fin...@gmail.com
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >Ian Finder
> >(206) 395-MIPS
> >ian.fin...@gmail.com
> >
> I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>

Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Steven Maresca]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:

> Someone go rescue this:
> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html
>
> Or palletize it and send it to me.
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>
I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster.

Regards,
Steve

Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.

[Ian Finder]

Someone go rescue this:
http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html

Or palletize it and send it to me.


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com





-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com