[cctalk] Fwd: CG14 and 16bit colour

[David Brownlee via cctalk]

In case anyone is interested in poking their cg14/sx in new and
exciting ways :-p

-- Forwarded message -
From: Michael 
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 07:55
Subject: CG14 and 16bit colour
To: 


Hello,

I did a lot of work on the cgfourteen, sx and xf86-video-suncg14
drivers, one thing I didn't expect was people asking for 8bit
acceleration in X, mostly because with a 4MB cg14 you're limited to
1152x900 in 24bit colour, in 8bit you could go all the way to
1920x1200. So I wrote code for that.
Looking at the headers files, it looks like at least the DAC supports
16bit colour as well, which would allow 1600x1200 in more than 8bit
colour.
Getting SX to deal with 16bit quantities is not difficult, at least for
basic stuff like copy, fill and ROP operations. Xrender would be more
difficult since there is no easy way to separate / re-unite the colour
channels of a 16bit pixel. For 32bit it's trivial, SX has instructions
to split 32bit accesses to four registers, even lets you pick which
byte to take. So we wouldn't get xrender acceleration.
Then again, we don't have that in 8bit either.

The DAC is an Analog Devices ADV7152, and I just found the datasheet -
in 16bit mode we get R5G5B5, nothing unusual here.
That said, cg14 seems to use the DAC only for gamma correction, we
don't mess with it at all even when switching to 8bit, so who knows
what exactly cg14 feeds it when we set pixel mode to 16bit.
Shouldn't be difficult to figure out though.

I guess what I'm getting at is - does anyone particularly care about
this? I don't mind doing this as yet another Just Because I Can(tm)
project but if anyone cares I'd welcome their input.

have fun
Michael

[cctalk] Fwd: [TUHS] Pixel 100/AP UNIX Computer

[David Barto via cctalk]

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: segaloco via TUHS 
> Subject: [TUHS] Pixel 100/AP UNIX Computer
> Date: June 7, 2023 at 12:17:14 AM PDT
> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society 
> 
> After talking with the folks I bought the recent documents from, they let me 
> know they are also selling a piece of hardware: 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/125714380860
> 
> After the link is an auction for an Instrumentation Laboratory Pixel 100/AP.  
> A small booklet included with the many documents I received indicates as of 
> 1982 the Pixel 100/AP ran a System III derivative.  The booklet goes on to 
> present a summary of user commands and options.  Despite the System III 
> basis, included among these are the C shell and ex/vi.
> 
> I have no room for hardware or honestly at that price point it'd be worth the 
> preservation effort.  Hopefully it finds a good home, it includes an almost 
> complete documentation set save for the small booklet I've got (which could 
> be separate promo material for all I know)
> 
> In any case, there were a few letters amongst the documents suggesting the 
> original owner was involved in the production of this system, particularly in 
> the area of OS details.  If I find any noteworthy information I'll pass it 
> along.
> 
> - Matt G.
> 
> P.S. If anyone knows of a preservation effort accepting new machines I can 
> pass this along.


This was originally posted to “The Unix Historical Society” email list and I 
asked the original author for permission to forward it here.
If anyone is interested in such equipment.

 David


There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third works.
--Alan J. Perlis
David Barto
ba...@kdbarto.org

[cctalk] Fwd: Re: AI applied to vintage interests

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [cctalk] Re: AI applied to vintage interests
Date:   Thu, 19 Jan 2023 18:59:11 -0600
From:   Jon Elson 
To: Sellam Abraham via cctalk 



On 1/19/23 15:25, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:43 PM Chris via cctalk 


wrote:

All I can say is if you haven't watched Terminator: the 
Sarah Connor
Chronicles ... um why not? I didn't even know it existed 
prior to 3 years
ago. Actually pretty thought provoking at times. Maybe 
ChatGPT will end up
being like John Henry and save us from the terminators. 
Quite tje opposite

of Colossus: the Forbin Project. Pretty freaky scary stuff.


I finally got around to watching Colossus: The Forbin 
Project a few months
ago. Notwithstanding all the cool old tech and how it was 
integrated into
the story, I found it to be verily unsatisfying, and maybe 
even a little

dumb.

A major problem with the Forbin project is when I first saw 
it, I knew that the permissive action link in the 
nuclear-armed missile would prevent it from being detonated 
in the silo.  The PAL requires acceleration of liftoff, 
coast and deceleration when re-entering the atmosphere (at 
least) before the weapon can be armed.  this function is NOT 
under computer control.


jon

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[RHamm--- via cctalk]

Better link.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NG7kCK4qHyDgNKxb6 




From:   Roderic Hamm via cctalk 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: Roderic Hamm 
Date:   24-10-2022 22:19
Subject:[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap



I have added some photo's of the strap and end fittings in the bucket 
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMg9OstC9aqufVPf9Wnh4nKw1DfLOrG4vbVhT1l1RKu4XQbC3BAJNP1b5j6DkPo9g
. 

The measure is in centimeters.
Regards,
Roderic.

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Roderic Hamm via cctalk]

I have added some photo's of the strap and end fittings in the bucket 
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMg9OstC9aqufVPf9Wnh4nKw1DfLOrG4vbVhT1l1RKu4XQbC3BAJNP1b5j6DkPo9g.
 

The measure is in centimeters.
Regards,
Roderic.

[cctalk] FW: [EXTERNAL]Fwd: HP 2000 hardware in Salt Lake

[Daryl Faulkner via cctalk]

Hi Everyone,
I'm Daryl and I'm with the Hewlett-Packard Company Archives. David Collins 
forwarded your email to me in the event that the archives might be interested 
in acquiring this impressive collection that is listed below.
I'm going to forward this to our archives team to have them give their input on 
which of these instruments we would be most interested in and then get back to 
you. Provided, that this inventory is still available.

I look forward to staying in touch.

Daryl

Daryl Faulkner
Account Director

Heritage Werks, Inc.
Specialists in Archival Services
503.501.9216 (cell)
daryl.faulk...@heritagewerks.com<mailto:daryl.faulk...@heritagewerks.com>
HeritageWerks.com<http://www.heritagewerks.com/>

Legally privileged/confidential information may be contained in this message. 
It is intended solely for the addressee(s); access to anyone else is 
unauthorized. If this message has been sent to you in error, do not review, 
disseminate, distribute or copy it. Please reply to the sender that you have 
received the message in error, and then delete it. Thank you.

From: David Collins 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2022 10:09 PM
To: Daryl Faulkner 
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Fwd: [cctalk] HP 2000 hardware in Salt Lake

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

FYI in case you are after more HP kit!
-- Forwarded message -
From: Tim Riker via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
Date: Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 11:22
Subject: [cctalk] HP 2000 hardware in Salt Lake
To: mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
Cc: Tim Riker mailto:t...@rikers.org>>


All,

I'm not getting around to working on this hardware. Another potential
move coming up. What's the interest level out there for HP 1000/2000
hardware?

Computers:

  * HP-2116A 8kB - the original HP computer. There is only one other
that I am aware of in existence. David Collins got theirs up and
running. Mine still blows fuses on startup.
  * 
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=95<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhpmuseum.net%2Fdisplay_item.php%3Fhw%3D95=05%7C01%7Cdaryl.faulkner%40heritagewerks.com%7C2003f1123f1d46501b0808da9ac637fe%7C07d32886c70d4d5394f40ef2d6f5c066%7C0%7C0%7C637992473396247341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=MHaoXStHDUcf9ABx%2BP2DmXgNB8d55p83V1Bvz18x9tg%3D=0>
  * HP-2100A - untested
  * HP-2108 - working last I checked 64kB (I might keep this one)
  * HP-2112 - working last I checked 64kB

Others:

  * HP-7901A disc drive - untested (2.5mB)
  * HP-7900A disc drive - untested, with external power supply (5mB)
  * HP-7900A disc drive - untested, with external power supply
  * HP-2748B paper tape reader - spins up, does not seem to pass data
  * CCC tape punch - untested
  * HP-2761A Optical Mark Reader - punch card reader. loading wheel
turned to goo long ago. probably restorable
  * card slot expansion chassis. I forget the part number.
  * dual 3 1/2" drive in hpio chassis might someday work with these systems
  * non-hp 19" rack holding most equipment
  * lot's of peripheral cards including interfaces for disc drives,
punch, tape, card, etc.

Photos on Google Photos. My Gallery App is down at the moment.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ry648oCejfmjnuNf9<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.app.goo.gl%2Fry648oCejfmjnuNf9=05%7C01%7Cdaryl.faulkner%40heritagewerks.com%7C2003f1123f1d46501b0808da9ac637fe%7C07d32886c70d4d5394f40ef2d6f5c066%7C0%7C0%7C637992473396404081%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=TYmL2bviyYZ4Ui%2FakE7GI7%2BQf1uwi8yjQXLR2PNc9P0%3D=0>

I'd guess it's about 1500 pounds of hardware. So, pickup in Salt Lake only.

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Bendix G-15 Documentation

[Stephen Buck via cctalk]

Wow! That is an incredibly complete and well-organized set of documentation. 
I'm sure it will be useful as I move forward with the restoration. I'll add a 
link to it in the blog.
Thanks!

[cctalk] Fwd: Bendix G-15 Documentation

[Van Snyder via cctalk]

 Forwarded Message 
From: rob.kols...@gmail.com
To: van.sny...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Bendix G-15 Documentation
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 19:09:34 -0600

Bendix G-15 DocumentationDear Fellow G-15 Enthusiast,
I'm Rob Kolstad, and I am sending you this little informational blurb
because I think you are interested in Bendix G-15 projects (sometimes
because I have seen someone messaged you about such things in the last
two decades). Feel free to send me an 'unsub' note to never hear again
about such things.
This note announces the beta test of the first set of the documentation
collection:
https://rbk.delosent.com/g15doc.html
The collection includes 161 source documents (some duplicates)
comprising some 10,566 pages (including blanks). I have broken some of
the source documents into their constituent sub-documents (e.g., the
Technical Application Memos) for easy access, yielding 1,414 documents
in total.
The collection is by no means complete (coming soon: good large-format
schematics and perhaps a search bar), but it's a good start. I'll try
to scan the rest before the year is out.
The fine folks at the System Source Computer Museum in Baltimore have
gained, at least for now, several Bendix G-15's (and peripherals) along
with more than two dozen boxes of Bendix documentation mingled with
documentation of a large highway engineering firm's projects. The
collection also has hundreds of paper tapes in fabulous condition.
I scanned a fraction of these documents back in June and combined them
with my personal collection (thanks to Bob Sander-Cederlof in Texas)
and the documents from bitsavers.org and the Computer History Museum
(among others).
This documentation section forms one of the main parts of the soon-to-
be-released (2022) bendixg15.com website for all things G-15, including
software, hardware/restorations, emulators, news, photos, and notes.
Please feel free to check out the documents. I'll let you know in a few
months when the general web-site is available. Comments, questions, and
suggestions are always welcome.
RK
  
/\  Rob Kolstad Delos
 /\/  \ rob.kols...@gmail.com   15235 Roller Coaster Road  
/  \/\/\   Colorado Springs, CO 80921
   /\ \ \  Phone: +1 719 481 6542
  

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Smith, Wayne via cctalk]

Found an ad from 1984 - poor resolution but gives you an idea of what the strap 
looked like.  -W

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NG7kCK4qHyDgNKxb6 

Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:25:59 +0100
From: Tony Duell 
Subject: [cctalk] Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?

I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is lacking 
the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the machine, the 
dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making something up.

-tony

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

its nice seeing phillips getting some love its some interesting history



On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:54 PM Peter Corlett via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:39:46AM -0500, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:26 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >> Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?
> >> I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is
> >> lacking the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the
> >> machine, the dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making
> >> something up.
>
> > get ahold of the phillips radio museum in holland they might have photos?
> > they have some of the computers on display
>
> Note that there are (at least) _two_ Philips museums: the "Stichting tot
> Behoud van Historische Philips Producten" (Foundation for the Preservation
> of Historic Philips Products) and the Philips Museum. Their websites are
> https://www.sbhp.nl/ and https://www.philips-museum.com/. Both are in
> Eindhoven, as is much of the interesting bits of Philips itself.
>
> The former appears to be volunteer collectors of mainly analogue-era
> Philips
> gear and I can almost smell the chain-smoked roll-ups just from the photos,
> whereas the latter looks rather more corporate.
>
> (I am occasionally contacted by Philips' recruiters trying to lure me to
> work at some nasty industrial park near Eindhoven airport. There is usually
> tumbleweed after I point out the seven hour commute and ask if they've
> considered remote-working.)
>
> I only note this because I have Weekend Vrij and a Museumkaart, and my
> random spin for where to visit this weekend landed on Eindhoven and thence
> to the Philips Museum, which reminded me of this thread. Unfortunatly, SBHP
> is closed at weekends (and doesn't accept Museumkaart, but I could have
> probably scraped together the €4 entry fee) which is a shame as it looks by
> far the more interesting of the two. If I spot a P2000C and remember, I'll
> try and get a photo although I doubt they'll let me dig it out of the
> cabinet and go over it with my micrometer...
>
> It may also be worth reaching out to the HomeComputerMuseum (sic) in
> Helmond
> (https://www.homecomputermuseum.nl/) who are quite friendly and have a
> well-curated collection, including quite a lot of Philips gear. It's not
> directly relevant to this query, but they have a very impressive collection
> of CD-i machines, hardware prototypes, and media. They have a P2000C, which
> is on display for the public to use, and a suitable donation would probably
> get all the photos and measurements you want:
> https://www.homecomputermuseum.nl/en/collectie/philips/philips-p2000c/
>
> As a last resort, there's the Bonami Games and Computers Museum in Zwolle
> (https://computermuseum.nl/) although it's basically just a huge barn
> with a
> load of random stuff piled in it and poor labelling, so I'd try them last:
> I
> took some lovely atmospheric pictures of 60s and 70s Big Iron when I
> visited, but have no idea what half of it is. I suspect they don't know
> either.
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:39:46AM -0500, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:26 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?
>> I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is
>> lacking the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the
>> machine, the dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making
>> something up.

> get ahold of the phillips radio museum in holland they might have photos?
> they have some of the computers on display

Note that there are (at least) _two_ Philips museums: the "Stichting tot
Behoud van Historische Philips Producten" (Foundation for the Preservation
of Historic Philips Products) and the Philips Museum. Their websites are
https://www.sbhp.nl/ and https://www.philips-museum.com/. Both are in
Eindhoven, as is much of the interesting bits of Philips itself.

The former appears to be volunteer collectors of mainly analogue-era Philips
gear and I can almost smell the chain-smoked roll-ups just from the photos,
whereas the latter looks rather more corporate.

(I am occasionally contacted by Philips' recruiters trying to lure me to
work at some nasty industrial park near Eindhoven airport. There is usually
tumbleweed after I point out the seven hour commute and ask if they've
considered remote-working.)

I only note this because I have Weekend Vrij and a Museumkaart, and my
random spin for where to visit this weekend landed on Eindhoven and thence
to the Philips Museum, which reminded me of this thread. Unfortunatly, SBHP
is closed at weekends (and doesn't accept Museumkaart, but I could have
probably scraped together the €4 entry fee) which is a shame as it looks by
far the more interesting of the two. If I spot a P2000C and remember, I'll
try and get a photo although I doubt they'll let me dig it out of the
cabinet and go over it with my micrometer...

It may also be worth reaching out to the HomeComputerMuseum (sic) in Helmond
(https://www.homecomputermuseum.nl/) who are quite friendly and have a
well-curated collection, including quite a lot of Philips gear. It's not
directly relevant to this query, but they have a very impressive collection
of CD-i machines, hardware prototypes, and media. They have a P2000C, which
is on display for the public to use, and a suitable donation would probably
get all the photos and measurements you want:
https://www.homecomputermuseum.nl/en/collectie/philips/philips-p2000c/

As a last resort, there's the Bonami Games and Computers Museum in Zwolle
(https://computermuseum.nl/) although it's basically just a huge barn with a
load of random stuff piled in it and poor labelling, so I'd try them last: I
took some lovely atmospheric pictures of 60s and 70s Big Iron when I
visited, but have no idea what half of it is. I suspect they don't know
either.

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

https://www.radiomuseum.org/museum/nl/philips-historical-products-eindhoven/

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:39 AM Adrian Stoness 
wrote:

> get ahold of the phillips radio museum in holland they might have photos?
>
> they have some of the computers on display
>
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:26 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?
>>
>> I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is
>> lacking the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the
>> machine, the dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making
>> something up.
>>
>> -tony
>>
>

[cctalk] Re: Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

get ahold of the phillips radio museum in holland they might have photos?

they have some of the computers on display

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:26 AM Tony Duell via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?
>
> I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is
> lacking the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the
> machine, the dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making
> something up.
>
> -tony
>

[cctalk] Fwd: Philips P2000C carrying strap

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

Does anyone have a Philips P2000C CP/M luggable with the carrying strap?

I will be restoring such a machine in the near-ish future and mine is
lacking the strap. Clear photos of the end fittings that slot into the
machine, the dimensions of them, etc would be a great help in making
something up.

-tony

[cctalk] (fwd) [cpunks] Google Program to Free Chips Boosts University Semiconductor Design

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

Howdy,

I guess this might be of interest to some people here...

- Forwarded message from jim bell  -

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 06:12:59 + (UTC)
From: jim bell 
To: CypherPunks 
Subject: Google Program to Free Chips Boosts University Semiconductor Design

https://www.hpcwire.com/2022/08/11/google-program-to-free-chips-boosts-university-semiconductor-design/

August 11, 2022

A Google-led program to design and manufacture chips for free is
becoming popular among researchers and computer enthusiasts.

The search giant’s open silicon program is providing the tools for
anyone to design chips, which then get manufactured. Google foots the
entire bill, from a chip’s conception to delivery of the final product
in a user’s hand.

Google’s Open MPW program includes an open-source design toolkit from
a company called EFabless, which also manages the program.

Enthusiasts and researchers have to submit their chip design, which
then gets manufactured in the factories of SkyWater on the 130nm
process. The submission deadline for the latest Open MPW program is
September 12.

Open MPW’s popularity can be measured by the number of projects using
Efabless’ EDA tools. Chips from about 240 open-source silicon projects
via Efabless’ tools will be manufactured in Skywater’s factories, Mike
Wishart, CEO of Efabless.

“The total projects posted on our site are like 570. That has gone
extremely well. It’s diverse, from 25 countries,” Wishart said.

Efabless had about 160 tapeouts in 2021, and had no tapeouts in 2020.

Efabless provides a simple design EDA tool to make chips, which is
mostly about dragging and dropping the core elements inside a chip. An
open-source PDK (process design kit) prepares the chip for fabrication
in factories.

The Open MPW program added recent partners, including the
U.S. Department of Defense, which last month poured $15 million into
the project to get open-source chips made on SkyWater’s 90nm
process. GlobalFoundries also joined the alliance and will also
manufacture chips on the 180nm node.

The manufacturing technology provided through the project is very old,
but it is cost-effective. Intel, Apple and others make expensive chips
on the more advanced processes such as 5nm, which uses cutting-edge
technology and provides the fastest computing in devices.

Open MPW is popular in academia and research, and for those
experimenting or testing chips and need small batches, Wishart said.

“Our incentive is to make it simple for more and more people and grow
a community around those executing designs… [on] nodes that are more
accessible to them and therefore lower costs,” Wishart said.

Typically, chips can be expensive to manufacture, and factories are
open to corporations. But Open MPW makes factories available to
researchers and students.

“There was an unmet need in academia, that was overwhelming and not
appreciated because they didn’t know what they could get,” Wishart
said.

The open-source toolkits cover the full concept of chip development,
from conceptualization to delivery of parts. Some universities may
have deals with chip factories, but students at the undergraduate,
master’s and PhD programs still have poor awareness of chip
fabrication.

- End forwarded message -

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia (fwd)

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

Ok I know  what I am watching  tonight! Thanks!  Ed#

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 5:22 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk 
wrote:   The greatest ever video about pre-WWW internet was "Hyperland".
a 1991 BBC documentary by Douglas Adams and Ted Nelson, and also starring Tom 
Baker.
A few years BEFORE WWW, it predicted the future of the internet.

https://archive.org/details/DouglasAdams-Hyperland


If you want subtitles/captions, 5 years ago, I created an .SRT (camptions file 
of it!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hCJm9ZEADCblVSVlBxdmZyREU/view?usp=drive_web
(400MB video with subtitles burned in)
.SRT file:
http://www.xenosoft.com/HyperlandCAPS_En_US_0_77.srt

  

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia (fwd)

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The greatest ever video about pre-WWW internet was "Hyperland".
a 1991 BBC documentary by Douglas Adams and Ted Nelson, and also starring Tom 
Baker.
A few years BEFORE WWW, it predicted the future of the internet.
https://archive.org/details/DouglasAdams-Hyperland
If you want subtitles/captions, 5 years ago, I created an .SRT (captions file) 
of it!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hCJm9ZEADCblVSVlBxdmZyREU/view?usp=drive_web
(400MB video with subtitles burned in)
.SRT file:
http://www.xenosoft.com/HyperlandCAPS_En_US_0_77.srt


On Mon, 1 Aug 2022, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk wrote:

Wow great find, thank you!


In 1991, Ted offered to set aside a studio quality tape of it for me.
But, we didn't see each other again for almost a decade, and then he 
could no longer find a good copy.


So, I've had to make do with off-air copies that you can download from 
the web.


Five years ago, with the help of a friend (my hearing had gone from mildly 
Hard of Hearing to functionally deaf), I made a captions file for it.
Neither of us being British, we had some struggles with some words and 
phrases, such as "ice lolly" ("popsicle" in USA).


And, of course, I welcome bug reports.  Let me know if you find any errors 
in the captions.  AND/OR, if anybody can ever find a GOOD copy of it!


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia (fwd)

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

Apparently there was a BBS magazine. Just happened across this.

https://archive.org/details/bbsmagazine

Will

You don't understand anything until you learn it more than one way.
Marvin Minsky

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia (fwd)

[Ryan de Laplante via cctalk]

> On Aug 1, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> The greatest ever video about pre-WWW internet was "Hyperland".
> a 1991 BBC documentary by Douglas Adams and Ted Nelson, and also starring Tom 
> Baker.
> A few years BEFORE WWW, it predicted the future of the internet.
> 
> https://archive.org/details/DouglasAdams-Hyperland
> 
> 
> If you want subtitles/captions, 5 years ago, I created an .SRT (camptions 
> file of it!
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hCJm9ZEADCblVSVlBxdmZyREU/view?usp=drive_web
> (400MB video with subtitles burned in)
> .SRT file:
> http://www.xenosoft.com/HyperlandCAPS_En_US_0_77.srt
> 


Wow great find, thank you!

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia (fwd)

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The greatest ever video about pre-WWW internet was "Hyperland".
a 1991 BBC documentary by Douglas Adams and Ted Nelson, and also starring Tom 
Baker.

A few years BEFORE WWW, it predicted the future of the internet.

https://archive.org/details/DouglasAdams-Hyperland


If you want subtitles/captions, 5 years ago, I created an .SRT (camptions file 
of it!


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hCJm9ZEADCblVSVlBxdmZyREU/view?usp=drive_web
(400MB video with subtitles burned in)
.SRT file:
http://www.xenosoft.com/HyperlandCAPS_En_US_0_77.srt

Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project

[Clem Cole via cctalk]

Announcing the Open SIMH project

SIMH is a framework and family of computer simulators, initiated by Bob
Supnik and continued with contributions (large and small) from many others,
with the primary goal of enabling the preservation of knowledge contained
in, and providing the ability to execute/experience, old/historic software
via simulation of the hardware on which it ran. This goal has been
successfully achieved and has for these years created a diverse community
of users and developers.

This has mapped to some core operational principles:

First, preserve the ability to run old/historically significant software.
This means functionally accurate, sometimes bug-compatible, but not
cycle-accurate, simulation.

Second, make it reasonably easy to add new simulators for other hardware
while leveraging common functions between the simulators.

Third, exploit the software nature of simulation and make SIMH convenient
for debugging a simulated system, by adding non-historical features to the
environment.

Fourth, make it convenient for users to explore old system environments,
with as close to historical interfaces, by mapping them to new features
that modern host operating systems provide.

Fifth, be inclusive of people and new technology. It's serious work, but it
should be fun.

Previously, we unfortunately never spent the time to codify how we would
deliver on these concepts. Rather, we have relied on an informal use of
traditional free and open-source principles.

Recently a situation has arisen that compromises some of these principles
and thus the entire status of the project, creating consternation among
many users and contributors.

For this reason, a number of us have stepped up to create a new
organizational structure, which we call "The Open SIMH Project", to be the
keeper and provide formal governance for the SIMH ecosystem going forward.
While details of the structure and how it operates are likely to be refined
over time, what will not change is our commitment to maintaining SIMH as a
free and open-source project, licensed under an MIT-style license as shown
on the "simh" repository page.

It is our desire that all of the past users and contributors will come to
recognize that the new organizational structure is in the best interests of
the community at large and that they will join us in it. However, this
iproject as defined, is where we intend to contribute our expertise and
time going forward.  At this point, we have in place the following,
although we foresee other resources being added in the future as we
identify the need and execute against them:

A Github "organization" for the project at https://github.com/open-simh

A Git repository for the simulators themselves at
https://github.com/open-simh/simh

The license for the SIMH simulator code base, found in LICENSE.txt in the
top level of the "simh" repository.

The "SIMH related tools" in https://github.com/open-simh/simtools. This is
also licensed under MIT style or BSD style open source licenses (which are
comparable apart from some minor wording differences).

A "SIMH Steering Group" -- project maintainers and guides.

The conventional git style process is used for code contributions, via pull
request to the project repository. The Steering Group members have approval
authority; this list is likely to change and grow over time.

By formalizing the underlying structure, our operational principles and
guidance can best benefit the community. These are being developed and
formalized, with a plan to publish them soon.

We have used our best judgment in setting up this structure but are open to
discussion and consideration of other ideas, and to making improvements.
Many of us have been part of different projects and understand that past
mistakes are real. We have tried to learn from these experiences and apply
the collected wisdom appropriately. We desire to hear from the community as
we update and refine the operating structure for the Open SIMH project.

We hope for your patience and look forward to your support as we work to
refine the organization and be able to provide this wonderful resource for
anyone to use as we continue to evolve the technology provided by the SIMH
system.

 The SIMH Steering Group
Clem Cole
Richard Cornwell
Paul Koning
Timothe Litt
Seth Morabito
Bob Supnik


ᐧ

Fwd: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Monty McGraw via cctalk]

Eric,

I would qualify that statement and say - I'm the Tek computer Monty :)

I have a Tektronix 4052 and 4054A, plus two Tektronix 4041 (68000 based
GPIB controller) computers :)

Both the 4052 and 4054A also have Tektronix 401x terminal emulation at up
to 9600 baud, so I don't have a use for the Siemens terminal.

Monty

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:58 PM Eric Moore  wrote:

> Holy shit Monty, you are the tek terminal Monty.
>
> I just posted on facebook in the tek 4051 basic group, do you know anyone
> with a tek 41XX or 42XX terminal?
>
> -Eric
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 12:51 PM Monty McGraw via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand.
>>
>> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it.
>>
>> Here is my photo of it:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing
>>
>> I'm near Houston Texas.
>>
>> It is too big and heavy to ship.
>>
>> Monty McGraw
>>
>

Fwd: Lawrence Moser Breed 1940-2021, A Personal Recollection

[Lee C. via cctalk]

Sad computer history note - Larry Breed, one of the original implementors of 
Iverson Notation AKA A Programming Language AKA APL passed away last month. 
Larry went to work at IBM on the first APL implementation on an IBM 7090 in 
1965 as his first job out of Stanford. My path crossed Larry's not thru APL, 
but when I was working my first retirement job at Hassett Hardware in downtown 
Palo Alto. Larry would come in to buy parts for his latest Burning Man or 
community project. He was a delightful person to talk with, learn something 
from, and just be around. I'm sorry I did not take the time to talk to him more 
about APL when I had the chance. 

There's a Wikipedia entry on Larry here 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_M._Breed) and remembrances of him on 
the apl.comp.lang mailing list.

God speed Larry and RIP.

Lee Courtney

Re: Fwd: DDS Intertec SuperBrain attic find w/ OS and dust cover

[Eric Dittman via cctalk]

I'd be interested if shipping was a possibility.

On 5/17/21 2:40 PM, Eric Evans via cctalk wrote:

Classic Computer Collectors,

My name is Eric and I live in Baton Rouge, LA. A customer of mine recently
asked me to find a good home for his early 1980's Intertec Superbrain. He
told me that it worked the last time he used it in 198? after which time it
sat in his attic with the dust cover on it. He provided me with a number of
5.25" floppy disks, which he said contained the complete operating system.

The chassis appears to be 100% intact, and includes the dust cover. I can
provide a few photos if you'd like.

I have not yet been able to make contact with any other classic PC
collectors, or museums that have expressed interest. Before I send it out
to my local recycler, I thought I'd reach out and see if anyone might be
interested.

Thank you for your time & God bless,

Eric Evans
225homebuyers.com
225.242.9858 gVoice
316.461.8587 cell


-- Forwarded message -
From: Dave Dunfield 
Date: Tue, May 11, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: DDS Intertec SuperBrain attic find w/ OS and dust cover
To: Eric Evans <4eric.ev...@gmail.com>


Hi Eric,

Sorry but no - I'm moving to smaller digs and have had to let much of my
collection go and simply can't take on more right now. You might try the
Classic computer collectors mailing list:

http://www.classiccmp.org

Dave

Btw: In asking stuff like this it might be a good idea to state your (or
friends) location.

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Eric Evans <4eric.ev...@gmail.com> wrote:


Dave,

A customer of mine recently asked me to find a good home for his early
1980's Intertec Superbrain. He told me that it worked the last time he used
it in 198? after which time it sat in his attic with the dust cover on it.
He provided me with a number of 5.25" floppy disks, which he said contained
the complete operating system.

The chassis appears to be 100% intact, and includes the dust cover. I can
provide a few photos if you'd like.

I have not yet been able to make contact with any other classic PC
collectors, or museums that have expressed interest. Before I send it out
to my local recycler, I thought I'd reach out and see if you had any
interest, or knew of anyone who might.

Thank you for your time & God bless,

Eric Evans
225homebuyers.com
225.242.9858 gVoice
316.461.8587 cell







--
Eric Dittman

Fwd: DDS Intertec SuperBrain attic find w/ OS and dust cover

[Eric Evans via cctalk]

Classic Computer Collectors,

My name is Eric and I live in Baton Rouge, LA. A customer of mine recently
asked me to find a good home for his early 1980's Intertec Superbrain. He
told me that it worked the last time he used it in 198? after which time it
sat in his attic with the dust cover on it. He provided me with a number of
5.25" floppy disks, which he said contained the complete operating system.

The chassis appears to be 100% intact, and includes the dust cover. I can
provide a few photos if you'd like.

I have not yet been able to make contact with any other classic PC
collectors, or museums that have expressed interest. Before I send it out
to my local recycler, I thought I'd reach out and see if anyone might be
interested.

Thank you for your time & God bless,

Eric Evans
225homebuyers.com
225.242.9858 gVoice
316.461.8587 cell


-- Forwarded message -
From: Dave Dunfield 
Date: Tue, May 11, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: DDS Intertec SuperBrain attic find w/ OS and dust cover
To: Eric Evans <4eric.ev...@gmail.com>


Hi Eric,

Sorry but no - I'm moving to smaller digs and have had to let much of my
collection go and simply can't take on more right now. You might try the
Classic computer collectors mailing list:

   http://www.classiccmp.org

Dave

Btw: In asking stuff like this it might be a good idea to state your (or
friends) location.

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Eric Evans <4eric.ev...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> A customer of mine recently asked me to find a good home for his early
> 1980's Intertec Superbrain. He told me that it worked the last time he used
> it in 198? after which time it sat in his attic with the dust cover on it.
> He provided me with a number of 5.25" floppy disks, which he said contained
> the complete operating system.
>
> The chassis appears to be 100% intact, and includes the dust cover. I can
> provide a few photos if you'd like.
>
> I have not yet been able to make contact with any other classic PC
> collectors, or museums that have expressed interest. Before I send it out
> to my local recycler, I thought I'd reach out and see if you had any
> interest, or knew of anyone who might.
>
> Thank you for your time & God bless,
>
> Eric Evans
> 225homebuyers.com
> 225.242.9858 gVoice
> 316.461.8587 cell
>


-- 
--
Search "Dave's Old Computers" see "my personal" at bottom!

Fwd: [TUHS] A stack of PDP-11 field maintenance print sets

[John Foust via cctalk]

>
>From: John Floren 
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 14:51:40 -0800
>To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society 
>Subject: [TUHS] A stack of PDP-11 field maintenance print sets
>
>I've been hauling around a pile of DEC Field Maintenance Print Sets
>for PDP-11 components for over a decade now, intending to see if
>they're worth having scanned or if there are digital versions out
>there already. Can anyone on the list point me to either an existing
>archive where these exist, or an archivist who would be interested in
>scanning them? They're full of exploded diagrams, schematics, and
>assembly listings.
>
>Here's the list of what I have:
>
>Field Maintenance Print Set (17" wide, 11" high):
>RLV11 disk controller
>RL01-AK disk drive
>ADV-11A (??)
>
>Field Maintenance Print Set (14" wide, 8.5" high):
>RL01 disk drive
>DLV11-J serial line controller
>RLV11 disk controller
>KFD11-A cpu
>KEF11-A floating point processor
>PDP11/23
>PDP11/03-L
>
>Absolutely not tossing them, just wondering if there are already
>scanned copies available somewhere, if I should send them off to be
>scanned and put online, or if I should just check in with computer
>museums (I'm near the CHM, for instance)
>
>John Floren

Fwd: [GreenKeys] Teletype 33 KSR free in Knoxville, TN, USA

[John Foust via cctalk]

The guy posted today, saying they're still available...

- John

>From: 
>To: 
>Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 18:23:31 -0500
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Equipment Available
>
>I have the following available for pickup in the Knoxville TN area, it from
>the estate of an old ham buddy that's now in the nursing home with
>Alzheimer's.  All was salvaged from his property which was sold to help
>defer his nursing home expenses, and was going to go in the dumpster.
>Really just wanted to save this stuff from the dumpster,  and its free to a
>good home, BUT if it works for you (whomever comes and get this stuff) a
>donation that I could forward to his Nephew to help cover his nursing home
>costs would be greatly appreciated.
>
>There are two Teletype Model 35 KSRs and at least one 33 KSR. Also there is
>an model 14 Printing Reperf FRXD (very similar to frxd-1311-04.jpg (800×600)
>(navy-radio.com)  on
>Nick England's site.  There may be some other in the future and possibly
>some 11/16 paper tape, but this may be spoken for.
>
>All was stored in a dry outbuilding, but was in the building for well over
>twenty years. It took the best part of a day to dig it out, salvage and
>carry it out of said storage building.
>
> 
>
> 
>I can provide additional more detailed photos if required, but please don't
>ask unless your really interested and serious.  The empty brass nor the gun
>they were fired in are no longer available I'm keeping it.Ha Ha.
>
>PS this stuff will not be available indefinitely, I don't have the space to
>store it for another twenty years, it will probably go onto the dump or be
>dismantle for parts before the end of February.
>
>Steve
>KM4V

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 19:20, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> (For those are are not familiar with Mini-Unix and LSX, they are both V6 Unix
> variants lobotomized to run on PDP-11's without memory management:

Aha!

Like this?
https://hackaday.com/2018/06/03/its-unix-on-a-microcontroller/
http://www.jcwolfram.de/projekte/mxe11_en/main.php

-- 
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Liam Proven

> for my continuing education: what's a "Mini-Unix binary"?

Two possible meanings; a system image for a Mini-Unix system (buildable under
V6 with the standard V6 tool-chain of C-compiler/assembler/linker), and user
command binaries (buildable with the C-compiler/assembler, but needing a
special Mini-Unix linker - written in C, and compilable/runnable under V6).
I've done both in my recent Mini-Unix work.

(For those are are not familiar with Mini-Unix and LSX, they are both V6 Unix
variants lobotomized to run on PDP-11's without memory management: -11/05's,
etc. I'm currently working on getting Mini-Unix to run on an -11/03; not a
major change, but not a model supported 'out of the box'. LSX is more heavily
cut down, so it will run on even smaller systems - I seem to recollect 20KB
or so - but that's not that useful nowadays, with semi-conductor memory being
fairly common.)

Noel

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 at 00:58, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> No, it looks like it uses a different fie-system layout.
>
> Besides; there's not much point: the big adantage of using V6 is that one can
> use the V6 tool-chain to prepare Mini-Unix binaries; XV6 wouldn't allow
> that. If all one wants to do is get files in or out, there's already a program
> (compilable with gcc, that uses Standard I/O) to read files out of a V6
> filesystem. If there was any good need, it could be extended to write
> (although that would be non-trivial).

Ah, OK. Sorry for the noise, then.

May I ask, for my continuing education: what's a "Mini-Unix binary"?

-- 
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Liam Proven

> Would the x86-32 "reimplementation" of v6 UNIX be able to mount and/or
> read-write such filesystems?

No, it looks like it uses a different fie-system layout.

Besides; there's not much point: the big adantage of using V6 is that one can
use the V6 tool-chain to prepare Mini-Unix binaries; XV6 wouldn't allow
that. If all one wants to do is get files in or out, there's already a program
(compilable with gcc, that uses Standard I/O) to read files out of a V6
filesystem. If there was any good need, it could be extended to write
(although that would be non-trivial).

  Noel

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 23:35, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Good basic idea (using a different system to build on), but there's a
> better/easier approach (in the same basic vein): bring up V6, and mount the RK
> pack with Mini-Unix on it (it's a V6 file system, so is mountable); V6 is rock
> solid running under simulators.

Would the x86-32 "reimplementation" of v6 UNIX be able to mount and/or
read-write such filesystems?

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2012/xv6.html



-- 
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Warner Losh

> If we can't use MINIUNIX to rebuild MINIUNIX kernel, should we try to
> bodge together rebuilding via apout?

Good basic idea (using a different system to build on), but there's a
better/easier approach (in the same basic vein): bring up V6, and mount the RK
pack with Mini-Unix on it (it's a V6 file system, so is mountable); V6 is rock
solid running under simulators.

The V6 tools can I'm pretty sure be used directly to build new Mini-Unix
kernels; user program can I think use the V6 C compiler, but I'm pretty sure
not the standard V6 linker (the Mini-Unix linker loads tham at the
non-standard address used by Mini-Unix).

 Noel

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

If we can't use MINIUNIX to rebuild MINIUNIX kernel, should we try to bodge
together rebuilding via apout? I have done some work there for 2.11BSD
stuff, but didn't need it for bootstrapping (just needed to use it to
bootstrap as).

Warner

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:09 PM Ray Jewhurst via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Where would one find these images? I would like to get them working on
> Simh.
>
> Thanks
> Ray
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 4:02 PM John Foust via cctalk  >
> wrote:
>
> > At 01:51 PM 9/30/2020, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > >I guess all this PDP-11 hardware detail isn't really on-topic for this
> > list; I
> > >should move it to Classic Computers, or something.
> >
> > I've got Riordan's udis[01..10].DSK disk images that I presume
> > are similar to http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/Terak/mini-unix/
> > IMD images.
> >
> > Which filesystem would I find in these images, and which tool
> > can burst the image into its files?
> >
> > - John
> >
> >
>

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[Ray Jewhurst via cctalk]

Where would one find these images? I would like to get them working on
Simh.

Thanks
Ray

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 4:02 PM John Foust via cctalk 
wrote:

> At 01:51 PM 9/30/2020, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> >I guess all this PDP-11 hardware detail isn't really on-topic for this
> list; I
> >should move it to Classic Computers, or something.
>
> I've got Riordan's udis[01..10].DSK disk images that I presume
> are similar to http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/Terak/mini-unix/
> IMD images.
>
> Which filesystem would I find in these images, and which tool
> can burst the image into its files?
>
> - John
>
>

Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Choice of Unix for 11/03 and 11/23+ Systems

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 01:51 PM 9/30/2020, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>I guess all this PDP-11 hardware detail isn't really on-topic for this list; I
>should move it to Classic Computers, or something. 

I've got Riordan's udis[01..10].DSK disk images that I presume
are similar to http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/Terak/mini-unix/
IMD images.

Which filesystem would I find in these images, and which tool
can burst the image into its files?

- John

Fwd: [GreenKeys] Teletype Model 28 Free, La Crosse, WI area

[John Foust via cctalk]

>
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Model 28 Free
>From: GARY WEBB via GreenKeys 
>
>Model 28 with modem installed.  Tape reader/reperf.  Variable speed.  Manuals. 
> Last used 20+ years ago.  If no one wants it, soon will be in the local land 
>fill.  Located in Onalaska, WI   Phone 608-769-5633  NI9V

Fwd: [GreenKeys] Teletype 33 near Phoenix AZ

[John Foust via cctalk]

>
>From: Joe Clanin 
>Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 04:56:27 -0500
>To: greenk...@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: [GreenKeys] 28KSR, 26, 33 For Sale Near Phoenix, AZ
>
>I have no affiliation with the seller, just passing it along.
>
>28:Â 
>https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/d/mesa-teletype-model-28/7194476271.html
>
>26:Â 
>https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/d/mesa-teletype-model-26/7194473134.html
>
>33:Â 
>https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/sys/d/mesa-teletype-model-33-ksr/7184200181.html
>
>-Joe
>__

Fwd: Factory Rodent Urine, was Re: Sun SPARCstation LX boot from CDROM?

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

-- Forwarded message -
From: Tom Hunter 
Date: Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Factory Rodent Urine, was Re: Sun SPARCstation LX boot from
CDROM?
To: Chuck Guzis 


Thanks Chuck,

Unfortunately it is well past cleaning.
The lead/tin alloy has corroded into a hard oxide with very high melting
temperature.
Lead oxide melts at 800+ degrees C and tin oxide at 1300+ degrees C.
This is well past the 300 degrees C a soldering iron produces.
Most importantly the copper pads below and some of the tracks are gone
completely.
About 70% of the board is pristine. Only the section which has been exposed
to the liquid is corroded.
I can't say for sure that it is rodent urine, but when I tried to reflow
the corroded solder joints it faintly smelled like my firewood where rats
nested one winter.
Of course there is no chance for a rat or even the tiniest mouse to get
into a fully assembled Sun/Sony CDROM with the affected PCB side facing
down and somehow urinate upwards towards the PCB.
As the drive was never before disassembled it could only have happened
during manufacturing.
20 years ago when I put the drive and other SPARX LX gear into my display
cabinet I could have easily found a replacement. Now it won't be easy.
The sad thing about it is that everything was pristine when I put it in my
cabinet.

Cheers
Tom Hunter

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 1:41 PM Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 8/31/20 7:25 PM, Tom Hunter wrote:
> > Not funny if your prized treasures fall victim to it.
> >
>
> I found that oven cleaner can loosen layers of the stuff without too
> much damage to the electronics underneath.   Soap and water won't cut it.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: Fwd: Looking for BAD / Faulty core memory for a display piece

[Tom Hunter via cctalk]

The following Ebay listing seems nice:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252576335317

It shows the advance in technology from core to transistor to SRAM wafer.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:52 PM Gary Sparkes via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I was looking for confirmed broken, not just "this is from X system
> untested" - I have a real aversion to wasting potentially usable hardware
> for restorations myself.
>
> I might recommend the russian UAV ones that seem to be up on ebay if
> there's nothing else around
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:05 AM John Foust via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > At 04:35 AM 7/21/2020, Gary Sparkes via cctalk wrote:
> > >Anyone? even if it's physically broken
> >
> >
> > You don't like the ones on eBay?
> >
> > - John
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
> KB3HAG
>

Re: Fwd: Looking for BAD / Faulty core memory for a display piece

[Gary Sparkes via cctalk]

I was looking for confirmed broken, not just "this is from X system
untested" - I have a real aversion to wasting potentially usable hardware
for restorations myself.

I might recommend the russian UAV ones that seem to be up on ebay if
there's nothing else around

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:05 AM John Foust via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> At 04:35 AM 7/21/2020, Gary Sparkes via cctalk wrote:
> >Anyone? even if it's physically broken
>
>
> You don't like the ones on eBay?
>
> - John
>
>
>

-- 
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG

Re: Fwd: Looking for BAD / Faulty core memory for a display piece

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 04:35 AM 7/21/2020, Gary Sparkes via cctalk wrote:
>Anyone? even if it's physically broken


You don't like the ones on eBay?

- John

Fwd: Looking for BAD / Faulty core memory for a display piece

[Gary Sparkes via cctalk]

Anyone? even if it's physically broken

-- Forwarded message -
From: Gary Sparkes 
Date: Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:00 PM
Subject: Looking for BAD / Faulty core memory for a display piece
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 


Unrepairable preferred

It'll be going into an epoxy resin setup that someone I know is doing for a
table, and I really want to get something that still LOOKS OK but is...
well, just faulty and won't be restorable to service so we don't destroy
any potentially usable hardware.

Ideas/suggestions welcome!

-- 
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG


-- 
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG

Fwd: Hopefully on topic

[Martin Crockett via cctalk]

Hi all,

I now have just acquired a VT-100 and am in the process of checking it out.

I noticed there is a capacitor that has vaporized, but I cant determine
what value it is.

I have the DEC VT-100 maintenance guide but it is very blurry in the
relevant area.

I cant even read the board designation.

This is the area of the circuit, I can trace the 2 Zener diodes on the -23V
rail, to one end of the cap, the other end seems to go to ground. The
obvious culprit is C6, but that doesn't match the mud map of the board, as
in C1x.
https://imgur.com/a/tm8mn8b

This is the capacitor in question.

It looks like C1x where x is undetermined.

I think it was a ceramic monolithic capacitor, it seems to be different to
any other caps on the board, i.e. slightly larger and a different colour
blue. When I look at this hires photos on Google images, it is the blue
capacitor circled below



Does anyone have a VT-100 and mind checking what the value of this
capacitor is please?
Ideally value and voltage or even just the nomenclature written on it, I
can work out the value and voltage from that.

Many thanks and Cheers, Martin...

Re: Fwd: ROLM CBX 8000 System Service Manual Vol. 2 Scans Released!

[rgalliett--- via cctalk]

Hello. I have both, Rolm CBX System Service Manuals l and ll as well as a 
Release 8/8001 Student Maintenance Course binder. Are you interested in these? 
Thank youSent from my LG Phoenix 3, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Bob Smith via cctalk]

IIRC, in the late 70s there was a hand held PDP8 (Intersil 6100 based)
variant ot the crypto AG box. PDP8 had been used (some decus
contributions) for linguistic and cryptologic applications.  The hand
held looked a bit like a calculator, but I don't recall it having a
capability to connect to any other device, sort of an offline (no
external connection) encryption/decryption device like the AG box and
others.
bb

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:07 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I
> did not want to start any
> political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the
> intelligence community
> is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what
> happens in the military, and
> even less of the intelligence community.
>
> My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day
> was very tough on the 101st.
> They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history.
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> > > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jim Manley
> > via cctalk
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
> > > To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ;
> > General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> You are talking from the US, right?
> > >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
> > >> described symptoms.
> > >>
> > >
> > > See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside
> > the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
> > thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
> > knowledge of real history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
> > > 1933 and 1945, Holm?
> >
> >
> > ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I
did not want to start any
political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the
intelligence community
is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what
happens in the military, and
even less of the intelligence community.

My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day
was very tough on the 101st.
They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jim Manley
> via cctalk
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
> > To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ;
> General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You are talking from the US, right?
> >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
> >> described symptoms.
> >>
> >
> > See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside
> the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
> thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
> knowledge of real history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
> > 1933 and 1945, Holm?
>
>
> ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.
>
>
>
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jim Manley via 
> cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
> To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; 
> General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
> 
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> 
> 
>> You are talking from the US, right?
>> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your 
>> described symptoms.
>>
> 
> See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside the 
> U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, 
> forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real 
> history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
> 1933 and 1945, Holm?


^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.



> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

ok boomer

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 1:20 PM Jim Manley via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> Is this blather on topic?
> >
> > If so I need to be on a different list.
> >
>
> Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists
> outside an imaginary bubble.  Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of
> useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence.  We
> crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world
> hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications,
> production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in
> on eight billion people would be impossible.  Likewise for pretty much any
> economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days.  Look what's
> happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion
> people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a
> speck of RNA that kills.
>
> Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them,
> even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme.  That includes computing
> history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible.
>

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk 
wrote:

Is this blather on topic?
>
> If so I need to be on a different list.
>

Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists
outside an imaginary bubble.  Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of
useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence.  We
crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world
hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications,
production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in
on eight billion people would be impossible.  Likewise for pretty much any
economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days.  Look what's
happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion
people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a
speck of RNA that kills.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them,
even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme.  That includes computing
history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible.

RE: Fwd: Crypto AG

[jwest--- via cctalk]

C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jim Manley via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; 
General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:


> You are talking from the US, right?
> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your 
> described symptoms.
>

See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside the 
U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, 
forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real 
history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
1933 and 1945, Holm?

Jim

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:


> You are talking from the US, right?
> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
> described symptoms.
>

See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside
the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
knowledge of real history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
1933 and 1945, Holm?

Jim

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-02-18 3:45 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be
>> asimple matter of who is the strongest.
>>
> 
> Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S.,
> over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again.  That
> includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and 

Is this blather on topic?

If so I need to be on a different list.


> the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist.  So,
> there ya go, back on topic, Will.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> Jim
> 

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
wrote:


> > Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be
> asimple matter of who is the strongest.
>

Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S.,
over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again.  That
includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and ending at
Berchtesgaden, with a POW stint in between after the Battle of the Bulge,
when he lost a third of his body weight thanks to the Nazi cleanse.  I've
spent over a third of my life in similar pursuits of pulling posteriors out
of fires of their own making.  Don't even _think_ of lecturing me on this
kind of subject.


> Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US.
>

Just the parts that matter.


> I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on topic.
>

And I used multiple PDP-11/70s running RSX-11 on RP-04s and RP-06s to do
the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist.  So,
there ya go, back on topic, Will.

Most respectfully,
Jim

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:

> Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, and
> others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in
> The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.
> 
> Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they
> were getting the big bucks to do it.  It's like being surprised when you
> get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature.  A
> regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of
> embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
> the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away.  They laugh when
> others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
> legitimate government.
> 

You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.

Regards,
Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

> On February 18, 2020 at 5:49 AM Stefan Skoglund via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:> Not everyone 
> on this list was even alive when much of this happened,

> Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be asimple 
> matter of who is the strongest.

This is now the "Classic Politics" list?  
I missed how the PDP-11 fits into this discussion.
Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US.
I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on topic. 

Thanks,
Will


"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to 
add, but when there is nothing left to take away." --  Antoine de Saint-Exupery


"The names of global variables should start with// "  -- https://isocpp.org

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Stefan Skoglund via cctalk]

tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:
> Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened,
> and
> others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going
> on in
> The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.
> 
> Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why
> they
> were getting the big bucks to do it.  It's like being surprised when
> you
> get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their
> nature.  A
> regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the
> form of
> embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
> the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away.  They laugh
> when
> others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
> legitimate government.

???
Remember the Monroe doctrine ?
Including the overthrow of the monarchy of Hawaii (or Texas for that
matter) so whom is/was the bigger shark ?

With regards to the Iranian money:
the US previously accepted the arbitration.

Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be a
simple matter of who is the strongest.

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, and
others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in
The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.

Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they
were getting the big bucks to do it.  It's like being surprised when you
get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature.  A
regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of
embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away.  They laugh when
others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
legitimate government.

The Enigma machines were made by a company that produced earlier commercial
versions that didn't have the plugboard on the front of the Enigmas, and
the rotors were wired differently from those provided for the Enigmas. The
commercial predecessors were common in banks and larger businesses that
needed to maintain the confidentiality of company-internal and/or customer
information, and that needed to be communicated quickly to distant
locations.


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:47 AM jos via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI
>

> Very old news, I am afraid.


> n a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A
> few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a
> pittance.
>
> If only  I had  known  then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD
> today
>

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

Hi Jos,

True, but I don't talk about information that may still classified. If it's
already in the media, it's fair game.

Thanks, Paul

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:47 AM jos via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:
> > I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like
> what
> > the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI
>
> Very old news, I am afraid.
>
>   Iranians knew/suspected  that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss
> salesengineer for Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison,
> subject to ¨intensive examination¨
>
> No help from the CIA in securing his release
>
>
> On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A
> few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a
> pittance.
>
> If only  I had  known  then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD
> today
>
>
>
> Jos
>
>

Re: Fwd:

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 02/13/2020 03:13 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:

I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI

If you find this interesting, the book :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452295475/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8=1

Spycraft: the secret history of the CIA's Spy Tech...

Is a totally fascinating read.  It has a bunch of stories 
about crazy intercept and spying operations all over

the world.

Jon

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[jos via cctalk]

On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:

I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI


Very old news, I am afraid.

 Iranians knew/suspected  that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss 
salesengineer for Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison, subject 
to ¨intensive examination¨

No help from the CIA in securing his release


On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A few of 
these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a pittance.

If only  I had  known  then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD 
today



Jos

Fwd:

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/?fbclid=IwAR2s7TrU9nXVXx4kUy-n7-LnXz3GM754uEzJjlPeTRa-TrOWhqm_QcH1HUI





>
>

Fwd: Book on punched cards

[Phil Budne via cctalk]

As seen on PDP-8 Lovers list:

> From: "Jones, Douglas W" 
> To: PDP8-Lovers 
> Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] Book on punched cards
>
> A new book has come out that I helped create:
>   Print Punch
>   published by CentreCentre, London
>   40 pounds sterling for the special edition (print run, 100 books)
>   30 pounds sterling for the regular edition (print run, 700 books)
>
> Here is the publisher's book list:
> -- https://centrecentre.co.uk/collections/frontpage
>
> The book includes 178 images of punched cards from my collection, mostly 
> featuring corporate logos or business forms from around the world.  The 
> expensive special edition differs from the regular edition only in:  A 
> different color of cover, the addition of a big fat rubber band, and the 
> inclusion of an actual punched card from my stock of spare cards.
>
> The IBM archives also provided lots of content and there are some essays by 
> others.  It's a nice coffee table book, and a good way for me to make the 
> content of my punched card collection more widely available.
>
> It definitely counts as an art book, not a technical reference, but still, it 
> seems at least tangentially relevant here.
>
>   Doug Jones
>   jo...@cs.uiowa.edu
>
> PS:  They paid me, if you can call it that, with a few copies of the regular 
> edition.  I don't expect any royalty checks as a result of the astounding 
> sales bump this e-mail will certainly produce as people rush to buy a useless 
> but pretty book.
>
> PPS:  Yes, if you really want to, you may forward this e-mail anywhere you 
> want.  Don't bother asking my permission.

Fwd: Your Vale Coaches order has been received!

[Mark Darvill via cctalk]

Good news! After a bit of a configuration nightmare (it is more complicated 
than Worldpay) I have got it working.

I will test a couple more times and then figure out what we need to do to make 
it live.

Mark

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Vale Coaches - Office 
> Subject: Your Vale Coaches order has been received!
> Date: 31 December 2019 at 14:11:32 GMT
> To: mark.darv...@mac.com
> Reply-To: Vale Coaches 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your order
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Just to let you know — we've received your order #10075, and it is now being 
> processed:
> 
> [Order #10075] (31st December 2019)
> 
> Product   QuantityPrice
> RHS Cardiff Flower Show - Saturday 18th April 2020
> Pickup Point:
> Sturminster Newton
> Packed Lunch Sandwich:
> Egg & cress on brown
> Packed Lunch Drink:
> Apple Juice
> 1 £69.00
> Subtotal: £69.00
> Payment method:   Barclaycard
> Total:£69.00
> Billing address
> 
> Mark Darvill
> Test
> April Cotatge
> Sackmore Lane, Marnhull
> Sturminster Newton
> Dorset
> DT10 1PN  
> 01258 820871  
> mark.darv...@mac.com
> Thanks for using valecoaches.com!
> 
> Vale Coaches
> Site built by Marnhull Computers Marnhull Computers 
> 

Re: Fwd: For auction: Amiga 3000

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

Hey guys.

Thanks for the tip.  I opened it yet again and inspected further under a
loupe and sure enough I noticed damage I'd not seen before.  I removed the
battery and cleaned up around it some more and mitigated the damage.  The
acid seems to have only migrated a few millimeters towards the adjacent
7400 series chips and only slightly affected the ground plane.  Here's a
photo:

https://flic.kr/p/2hxjBv3

I ran this system for hours last night and it never hiccupped.

I don't know what "AGA" means.  There have been a couple sales on eBay
recently for stock systems without the upgrades this has that both sold for
$800.  I sold a stock 25Mhz system earlier this year for $500.

Again, thanks for pointing out the problem with the battery.

Sellam

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 10:18 AM Ethan O'Toole  wrote:

> > Sellam,
> >I am an Amiga expert. If you don't remove the battery asap you are
> going
> > to lose this system. I am amazed that it still works but that isn't
> going to
> > last much longer. You stated that there was some corrosion that you
> cleaned
> > up so it may already too late to save the motherboard. The acid from the
> > battery will migrate along the copper traces and there is no way to stop
> it
> > nor repair it. I would never buy this system.
> > GOD Bless and Thanks,
> > rich!
>
> Eh, looking at the pictures the battery damage is very little. It is a
> decent candidate for saving. Action needs to be taken quickly but it's in
> way better condition than ones I've attempted to work on.
>
> I do see some flaking north in the copper traces of the battery.
>
> I still wonder if osmeone will reproduce Amiga 3000 motherboards where you
> can either move over the customs but also has some modern add ons.
>
> As well as a replacement board for the Amiga 600 :-)
>
> At $800 though... not AGA.
>
>
> --
> : Ethan O'Toole
>
>
>

Re: Fwd: For auction: Amiga 3000

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Sellam,
   I am an Amiga expert. If you don't remove the battery asap you are going 
to lose this system. I am amazed that it still works but that isn't going to 
last much longer. You stated that there was some corrosion that you cleaned 
up so it may already too late to save the motherboard. The acid from the 
battery will migrate along the copper traces and there is no way to stop it 
nor repair it. I would never buy this system.

GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!


Eh, looking at the pictures the battery damage is very little. It is a 
decent candidate for saving. Action needs to be taken quickly but it's in 
way better condition than ones I've attempted to work on.


I do see some flaking north in the copper traces of the battery.

I still wonder if osmeone will reproduce Amiga 3000 motherboards where you 
can either move over the customs but also has some modern add ons.


As well as a replacement board for the Amiga 600 :-)

At $800 though... not AGA.


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Fwd: For auction: Amiga 3000

[Richard Pope via cctalk]

Sellam,
I am an Amiga expert. If you don't remove the battery asap you are 
going to lose this system. I am amazed that it still works but that 
isn't going to last much longer. You stated that there was some 
corrosion that you cleaned up so it may already too late to save the 
motherboard. The acid from the battery will migrate along the copper 
traces and there is no way to stop it nor repair it. I would never buy 
this system.

GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 10/18/2019 10:01 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

This is an Amiga 3000 in excellent condition, both functionally and
physically. Other than the very slight yellowing of the front face and one
barely visible scrape, it is almost perfect.

It is extremely clean inside as well. The on-board battery has not yet been
removed but it should be soon as it has begun to outgas and affect the
surrounding components. I cleaned up the minimal oxidation it had caused on
some of the various components local to it. The capacitors have no visible
age-related issues.

The system boots up into Amiga WorkBench 3.1 and has numerous applications
and drivers installed. Video output is from the GVP EGS (works with SVGA
monitor) board, which plugs into the on-board video port (via external
connector cable).

Photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmxBoNtw

(Despite the marring of the back label, the serial number is readable:
CA1013685.)

Configuration:

16Mhz on-board CPU with Commodore A3640 68040 @ 25 MHz accelerator
2MB Chip RAM
16MB Fast RAM
Great Valley Products L.C. EGS (Rev. 3) 28/24 Spectrum RTG graphics board
w/2MB for 1600×1280×8 interlace, 1152×864×16 interlace, and 800×600×24
non-interlace video modes
Utilities Unlimited Emplant Macintosh emulator board with Macintosh II ROMs
(Apple 342-0105-B, 342-0106-B, 342-0107-B, 342-0108-B)
Conner CFA170S 170MB IDE hard drive
Quantum LPS525S 525MB SCSI2 hard drive
3.5" floppy drive

So many people expressed an interest in this machine that I decided to sell
it by private sealed bid auction.

Between now and Monday, October 21, 8:00PM Pacific Daylight Time, if
interested, please submit your bid to me by e-mail with your bid. I will
confirm your bid by e-mail and notify you if you are the highest bidder, or
otherwise of the final selling price. There is a reserve price of $800.

If you are unfamiliar with a sealed-bid auction, you submit your bid
private to me via e-mail. Your bid is the highest price you are willing to
pay. Whomever has the highest bid by the deadline wins the auction. I will
announce the final sale price to all bidders. The winning bidder has 24
hours to submit payment unless specific arrangements are made otherwise.
Winning bidder pays for shipping via FedEx Ground, shipping from
Sacramento, California. I will ship globally. Local pickup is welcome.
Payment by PayPal using direct funds transfer is required. Other payment
arrangements may be negotiated. My payment policies are explained in full
in my FAQ, located here:

https://tinyurl.com/VWoCW-FAQ

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks, and good luck to all prospective bidders.

Sellam

Fwd: For auction: Amiga 3000

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

This is an Amiga 3000 in excellent condition, both functionally and
physically. Other than the very slight yellowing of the front face and one
barely visible scrape, it is almost perfect.

It is extremely clean inside as well. The on-board battery has not yet been
removed but it should be soon as it has begun to outgas and affect the
surrounding components. I cleaned up the minimal oxidation it had caused on
some of the various components local to it. The capacitors have no visible
age-related issues.

The system boots up into Amiga WorkBench 3.1 and has numerous applications
and drivers installed. Video output is from the GVP EGS (works with SVGA
monitor) board, which plugs into the on-board video port (via external
connector cable).

Photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmxBoNtw

(Despite the marring of the back label, the serial number is readable:
CA1013685.)

Configuration:

16Mhz on-board CPU with Commodore A3640 68040 @ 25 MHz accelerator
2MB Chip RAM
16MB Fast RAM
Great Valley Products L.C. EGS (Rev. 3) 28/24 Spectrum RTG graphics board
w/2MB for 1600×1280×8 interlace, 1152×864×16 interlace, and 800×600×24
non-interlace video modes
Utilities Unlimited Emplant Macintosh emulator board with Macintosh II ROMs
(Apple 342-0105-B, 342-0106-B, 342-0107-B, 342-0108-B)
Conner CFA170S 170MB IDE hard drive
Quantum LPS525S 525MB SCSI2 hard drive
3.5" floppy drive

So many people expressed an interest in this machine that I decided to sell
it by private sealed bid auction.

Between now and Monday, October 21, 8:00PM Pacific Daylight Time, if
interested, please submit your bid to me by e-mail with your bid. I will
confirm your bid by e-mail and notify you if you are the highest bidder, or
otherwise of the final selling price. There is a reserve price of $800.

If you are unfamiliar with a sealed-bid auction, you submit your bid
private to me via e-mail. Your bid is the highest price you are willing to
pay. Whomever has the highest bid by the deadline wins the auction. I will
announce the final sale price to all bidders. The winning bidder has 24
hours to submit payment unless specific arrangements are made otherwise.
Winning bidder pays for shipping via FedEx Ground, shipping from
Sacramento, California. I will ship globally. Local pickup is welcome.
Payment by PayPal using direct funds transfer is required. Other payment
arrangements may be negotiated. My payment policies are explained in full
in my FAQ, located here:

https://tinyurl.com/VWoCW-FAQ

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks, and good luck to all prospective bidders.

Sellam

Fwd: IBM MST extender cards

[Henk Stegeman via cctalk]

Hi Al,

On the surface 3V & 1.2V is printed. This is a MST-4 card extender. 
MST-1 & MST-2 are different. I was also interested, but the seller was 
not willing to ship them to Europe :-( Regards Henk

Re: Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Thu, 3 Oct 2019, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote:

> > You need an extremely high resolution timer to detect slight differences in
> > execution time of speculatively-executed threads. The VAX 11/780 certainly 
> > did
> > not do speculative execution, and my guess is that all VAXen did not, 
> > either.
> 
>  The NVAX and NVAX+ implementations include a branch predictor in their 
> microarchitecture[1], so obviously they do execute speculatively.

 For the record: in NVAX prediction does not extend beyond the instruction 
fetch unit (I-box in VAX-speak), so there's actually no speculative 
execution, but only speculative prefetch.

  Maciej

Re: Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

> > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative
> > execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others
> > here have a lot more knowledge.
> >
> >
> You need an extremely high resolution timer to detect slight differences in
> execution time of speculatively-executed threads. The VAX 11/780 certainly did
> not do speculative execution, and my guess is that all VAXen did not, either.

 The NVAX and NVAX+ implementations include a branch predictor in their 
microarchitecture[1], so obviously they do execute speculatively.

> Also, I don't think the timer was high enough resolution to detect such a
> difference.

 I can't speak of timer availability offhand though.

References:

[1] G. Michael Uhler et al, "The NVAX and NVAX+ High-performance VAX 
Microprocessors", Digital Technical Journal Vol. 4 No. 3 Summer 1992



  Maciej

Re: Fwd: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem for Prime Computers

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/27/19 5:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Have been on the road, and I just noticed this announcement on the TUHS 
> list.
> I'd been trying to find this for a long time


So  had I.  Glad to see it recovered.  I had contacted GIT more than a
decade ago and was told all of it had been thrown away long before.

Now, if we can find some of the others maybe we can revive the Software
Tools User Group.  :-)

bill


> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools 
> Subystem for Prime Computers
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:45:29 +0300
> From: Arnold Robbins 
> To: t...@tuhs.org
> 
> 
> 
> Hello All.
> 
> Believed lost in the mists of time for over 30 years, the Georgia Tech
> Software Tools Subsystem for Prime Computers, along with the Georgia Tech
> C Compiler for Prime Computers, have been recovered!
> 
> The source code and documentation (and binary files) are available in a
> Github repo: https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/gt-swt.
> 
> The README.md there provides some brief history and credits with respect
> to the recovery, and w.r.t. the subsystem and C compilers themselves.
> 
> Credit to Scott Lee for making and keeping the tapes and driving the
> recovery process, and to Dennis Boone and yours truly for contributing
> financially. I set up the repo.
> 
> For anyone who used and/or contributed to this software, we hope you'll
> enjoy this trip down memory lane.
> 
> Feel free to forward this note to interested parties.
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Arnold Robbins
> (On behalf of the swt recovery team. :-)

Fwd: [TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem for Prime Computers

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

Have been on the road, and I just noticed this announcement on the TUHS 
list.

I'd been trying to find this for a long time


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	[TUHS] Recovered!!! The Georgia Tech Software Tools Subystem 
for Prime Computers

Date:   Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:45:29 +0300
From:   Arnold Robbins 
To: t...@tuhs.org



Hello All.

Believed lost in the mists of time for over 30 years, the Georgia Tech
Software Tools Subsystem for Prime Computers, along with the Georgia Tech
C Compiler for Prime Computers, have been recovered!

The source code and documentation (and binary files) are available in a
Github repo: https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/gt-swt.

The README.md there provides some brief history and credits with respect
to the recovery, and w.r.t. the subsystem and C compilers themselves.

Credit to Scott Lee for making and keeping the tapes and driving the
recovery process, and to Dennis Boone and yours truly for contributing
financially. I set up the repo.

For anyone who used and/or contributed to this software, we hope you'll
enjoy this trip down memory lane.

Feel free to forward this note to interested parties.

Enjoy,

Arnold Robbins
(On behalf of the swt recovery team. :-)

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, Nemo via cctalk wrote:

We had a secure (but not tempest) room built for us by an authorised
contractor and they forgot to install A/C.  It was unusable until a
portable A/C was placed in it with complicated baffles letting the hot
air out.


Nobody except a college administrator would build a computer room with no 
temperture control.

Even at McMurdo, they had to have windows that opened.

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Nemo via cctalk]

On 18/09/2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk  wrote:
>
[...]
> Yea, I had to make a trip to a “secure facility” once and there were entire
> “tempest” rooms with conditioned power and no external communications
> equipment.

We had a secure (but not tempest) room built for us by an authorised
contractor and they forgot to install A/C.  It was unusable until a
portable A/C was placed in it with complicated baffles letting the hot
air out.

N.

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Chris Elmquist  wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
>>>  wrote:
> ...
 Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written 
 up in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
 
 One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as 
 Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a 
 paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is 
 message padding.
 
 The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
 listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
 timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
 others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top 
 cryptographers.)
 
 It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security 
 mechanisms.
>>> 
>>> ... Wow.
>>> 
>>> *Wow.*
>>> 
>>> Thanks for those!
>> 
>> In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being 
>> able to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking 
>> at the AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was 
>> relatively low fidelity, but yikes!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking 
> 

Cool!

Yea, I had to make a trip to a “secure facility” once and there were entire 
“tempest” rooms with conditioned power and no external communications 
equipment.  The room itself (think *large*) was a faraday cage with a vault 
door that was kept closed when ever there was sensitive stuff going on.  Since 
I didn’t have a security clearance, the door was open and everywhere I went 
there were red lights in the rooms/halls that I was in that would be on to 
indicate that no sensitive information should be discussed (makes you feel 
really wanted).  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> >>> ...
> >> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written 
> >> up in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
> >> 
> >> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as 
> >> Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a 
> >> paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is 
> >> message padding.
> >> 
> >> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
> >> listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
> >> timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
> >> others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top 
> >> cryptographers.)
> >> 
> >> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security 
> >> mechanisms.
> > 
> > ... Wow.
> > 
> > *Wow.*
> > 
> > Thanks for those!
> 
> In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able 
> to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the 
> AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was relatively 
> low fidelity, but yikes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
>  wrote:
>>> ...
>> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up 
>> in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
>> 
>> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, 
>> by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a paper 
>> named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is message 
>> padding.
>> 
>> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
>> listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
>> timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
>> others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.)
>> 
>> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms.
> 
> ... Wow.
> 
> *Wow.*
> 
> Thanks for those!

In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able 
to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the AC 
(e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was relatively low 
fidelity, but yikes!

TTFN - Guy

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
> > ...
> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up 
> in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
>
> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, 
> by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a paper 
> named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is message 
> padding.
>
> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening 
> to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is timing tweaks in 
> the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, 
> the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.)
>
> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms.

... Wow.

*Wow.*

Thanks for those!

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[ben via cctalk]

Windows _is_ Bells and Whistles, plus a couple of gongs.


No ... The GONGS is the chinese knock off.

Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[ben via cctalk]

On 9/17/2019 1:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in 
one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown 
attack".


I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating 
systems class.  One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) 
skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for 
MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on 
security, than on being able to transparently and without user action, 
add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish."


(YES, that's where I got that phrase from.)


I say the concept of a) Time sharing and B) GUI and c) 8 bit bytes
and D) the C programming language have caused computer architecture
to go to dogs ...

Lets not forget some FORTH chips have been to known to meltdown
without any attacks just unlucky coding.
Ben.
Is true the yodelling jellyfish makes me wait 45 seconds for pop up
window to open after clicking on a menu item like "OPEN FILE"?

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Sep 17, 2019, at 6:51 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> ...
> This latest one is bad for a touch typer or those that always enter the 
> password in the same way. It looks for the timing of when you hit keys and 
> then makes guesses on what keys would typically take that length of time to 
> type.

Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up in 
the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.

One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, by 
looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a paper named 
"Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is message padding.

The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening 
to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is timing tweaks in 
the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, the 
S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.)

It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms.

paul

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[dwight via cctalk]

The main difference between Meltdown and the various Spectre problems was that 
Meltdown didn't require you to find code that runs in protected space to cause 
the sideband effects. Spectre required knowing about specific code running in 
protected mode to do the dirty work for you. You just pass some tool, with 
privileged execution, the location you want to probe and then watch the 
sideband effect.
This latest one is bad for a touch typer or those that always enter the 
password in the same way. It looks for the timing of when you hit keys and then 
makes guesses on what keys would typically take that length of time to type. 
Most any processor running multiple users might be susceptible to this one. It 
does depend on the typical touch typer trained person or at least one of the 
typical two finger typers. It works too good to let go by as not an issue.  
Even dithering the processor's timer enough to avoid the other problems isn't 
enough to hid this one. People type to slow compared to the processors cycle 
time.
Dwight


From: cctalk  on behalf of Clem Cole via cctalk 

Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 11:01 AM
To: Paul Koning 
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; 
SIMH 
Subject: Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

I can simplify the question a bit.  I have to be careful as I work for
Intel and I've been involved with a small bit of it on our end and some of
the lawyers are a bit touchy about the whole situation.   So I need to add
- these opinions are my own not necessarily my employers.

Basically, if you have a CPU and microcode design that is post the IBM AGS
that uses any type of branch prediction or speculative execution, the
processor is now suspect.  But you need to do the analysis originally
proposed in the German paper. It helps to have the google teams work next
to you when you do that analysis because you now have a recipe for how to
apply the ideas, but that is not the only way to apply them.  Before then,
nobody had thought about the problem.

While you point out the attack is carried out in the Google paper using the
MMU, the attack is against the internal instruction predictor.  Since the
original Google paper, a number of other ways of attacks against the
microcode have been reduced to practice by other teams.

In the case of the Vax ISA, the original 780 and 750, I do not believe any
attempt at prediction was in the microcode, but that would take someone
like Bob to verify. In all cases, I was never part of the Vax CPU
development, so I'm not going to be able to answer/I really don't know.

But I observe that by the time of the 9000 and the 8000 series Vaxen there
had been enough noise in the community, particularly by Patterson et al, in
the whole RISC vs. CISC front had certainly caught the attention in the CPU
designer's eyes.   The techniques that were being considered were
completely and fully discussed in the open literature.  I certainly had
read Cocke's and Russ's papers by then in grad school.  I have to believe
the same was true of the folks in DEC's HW team.  Certainly, by Alpha time
when I was around, those ideas were well-baked at DEC and I would be quite
surprised if a similar attack could not be performed against EV5 and EV6.

Bottom line, you need to really look at the microcode and very it.
Clem


ᐧ

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 1:40 PM Paul Koning  wrote:

> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable.  The original
> paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM.
>
> The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all
> the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative
> execution.  If no, then we're done, the answer is easy.  (That was the case
> when the question was asked for PDP11s.)  But if yes, then it becomes
> necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites
> are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like.
>
> I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown"
> vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a
> designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a
> DEC engineer to do.
>
> paul
>
> > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
> >
> > Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch
> prediction are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on
> 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him
> when it all came out and said - look at what you did.
> >
> > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they
> first published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before
> someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security
> exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18
> m

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Clem Cole via cctalk]

I can simplify the question a bit.  I have to be careful as I work for
Intel and I've been involved with a small bit of it on our end and some of
the lawyers are a bit touchy about the whole situation.   So I need to add
- these opinions are my own not necessarily my employers.

Basically, if you have a CPU and microcode design that is post the IBM AGS
that uses any type of branch prediction or speculative execution, the
processor is now suspect.  But you need to do the analysis originally
proposed in the German paper. It helps to have the google teams work next
to you when you do that analysis because you now have a recipe for how to
apply the ideas, but that is not the only way to apply them.  Before then,
nobody had thought about the problem.

While you point out the attack is carried out in the Google paper using the
MMU, the attack is against the internal instruction predictor.  Since the
original Google paper, a number of other ways of attacks against the
microcode have been reduced to practice by other teams.

In the case of the Vax ISA, the original 780 and 750, I do not believe any
attempt at prediction was in the microcode, but that would take someone
like Bob to verify. In all cases, I was never part of the Vax CPU
development, so I'm not going to be able to answer/I really don't know.

But I observe that by the time of the 9000 and the 8000 series Vaxen there
had been enough noise in the community, particularly by Patterson et al, in
the whole RISC vs. CISC front had certainly caught the attention in the CPU
designer's eyes.   The techniques that were being considered were
completely and fully discussed in the open literature.  I certainly had
read Cocke's and Russ's papers by then in grad school.  I have to believe
the same was true of the folks in DEC's HW team.  Certainly, by Alpha time
when I was around, those ideas were well-baked at DEC and I would be quite
surprised if a similar attack could not be performed against EV5 and EV6.

Bottom line, you need to really look at the microcode and very it.
Clem


ᐧ

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 1:40 PM Paul Koning  wrote:

> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable.  The original
> paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM.
>
> The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all
> the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative
> execution.  If no, then we're done, the answer is easy.  (That was the case
> when the question was asked for PDP11s.)  But if yes, then it becomes
> necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites
> are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like.
>
> I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown"
> vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a
> designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a
> DEC engineer to do.
>
> paul
>
> > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
> >
> > Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch
> prediction are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on
> 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him
> when it all came out and said - look at what you did.
> >
> > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they
> first published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before
> someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security
> exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18
> months to reduce it to practice.
> > ᐧ
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning 
> wrote:
> > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving
> speculative execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I
> suspect others here have a lot more knowledge.
> >
> >   paul
> >
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> From: co...@sdf.org
> >> Subject: VAX + Spectre
> >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
> >> To: port-...@netbsd.org
> >>
> >> So, this is a bug report:
> >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811
> >>
> >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
> >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
> >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > s...@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
>

Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 21:09, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:

> One student (who later became my best friend and buddy)
> skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for
> MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on security,
> than on being able to transparently and without user action, add
> smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish."

«
> Windows _is_ Bells and Whistles, plus a couple of gongs.

Don't forget the horns, the custard pies and the water-powered whirling
knives.

-- mlooney and Red Drag Diva
»

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[allison via cctalk]

On 9/17/19 3:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in
>> one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown
>> attack".
> 
> I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating
> systems class.  One student (who later became my best friend and buddy)
> skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for
> MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on
> security, than on being able to transparently and without user action,
> add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish."
> 
> (YES, that's where I got that phrase from.)

Fred,
I love it.

My feeling is if you don't stop the mongrel hordes at the door you've
lost. After all wasn't it Vonada that indicated computer are at best
partially tested?

Allison

Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in one 
paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown attack".


I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating 
systems class.  One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) 
skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for 
MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on security, 
than on being able to transparently and without user action, add 
smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish."


(YES, that's where I got that phrase from.)

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Sep 17, 2019, at 2:35 PM, allison via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>>> ...
> 
> I see this as a question of the number of angels that can dance on the
> point of a pin.   But could GCC compile code that has system access to
> do nasties is a more complex question.  Then again how does it get
> system prives to start with?

The issue with Spectre (and Meltdown, on the small set of architectures where 
that applies) is that it discloses supposedly protected data to unprivileged 
processes.  It isn't a case of playing games starting from system privs; it's a 
case of learning secret data (perhaps passwords from freed buffers) that were 
intended to be invisible to your process.

I'd recommend the full academic paper on these attacks by Kocher et al. to 
anyone with a serious interest in processor architectures -- which fits much of 
the membership of these lists.  Even if you don't work with machines that have 
this issue, or now that it has been fixed in places where it does apply, it 
still is a marvelous piece of work and understanding how it works is a great 
learning exercise.

I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in one 
paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown attack".

paul

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[allison via cctalk]

On 9/17/19 1:49 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable.  The original
>> paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM.
>>
>> The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all
>> the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative
>> execution.  If no, then we're done, the answer is easy.  (That was the case
>> when the question was asked for PDP11s.)  But if yes, then it becomes
>> necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites
>> are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like.
>>
> 
> Early Vaxen are immune. Latter day ones require careful analysis since they
> have some out of order things. I'm not expert enough to know for sure,
> though, and the latter day stuff is half remembered from marketing material
> for one of the final generations of Vax big iron before Alpha drove that
> away... But I don't think many of these old beasts are still running even
> if my half remembered stuff is right...
> 
> I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown"
>> vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a
>> designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a
>> DEC engineer to do.
> 
> 
> I'm agree.
> 
> Warner
> 
> paul
>>
>>> On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch
>> prediction are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on
>> 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him
>> when it all came out and said - look at what you did.
>>>
>>> What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they
>> first published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before
>> someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security
>> exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18
>> months to reduce it to practice.
>>> ᐧ
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning 
>> wrote:
>>> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving
>> speculative execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I
>> suspect others here have a lot more knowledge.
>>>
>>>   paul
>>>
 Begin forwarded message:

 From: co...@sdf.org
 Subject: VAX + Spectre
 Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
 To: port-...@netbsd.org

 So, this is a bug report:
 https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811

 GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
 Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
 first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Simh mailing list
>>> s...@trailing-edge.com
>>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>>

I see this as a question of the number of angels that can dance on the
point of a pin.   But could GCC compile code that has system access to
do nasties is a more complex question.  Then again how does it get
system prives to start with?

First VAX represents more than a dozen different implementations from
the 780 though the many CMOS versions so what might be an issue for one
is likely not for another.  The other half is the OS in use may be
sufficiently able to keep rogue processes confined. Of course there
are the LAVC and bus connected multi-cpu clustered systems.

In the end its mostly meaningless as the only reliable way to take a VAX
down is trip on the power cord, assuming you can get to it.

Allison

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 6:40 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
wrote:

> Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable.  The original
> paper by Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM.
>
> The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all
> the VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative
> execution.  If no, then we're done, the answer is easy.  (That was the case
> when the question was asked for PDP11s.)  But if yes, then it becomes
> necessary to read the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites
> are implemented in some VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like.
>

Early Vaxen are immune. Latter day ones require careful analysis since they
have some out of order things. I'm not expert enough to know for sure,
though, and the latter day stuff is half remembered from marketing material
for one of the final generations of Vax big iron before Alpha drove that
away... But I don't think many of these old beasts are still running even
if my half remembered stuff is right...

I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown"
> vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a
> designer who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a
> DEC engineer to do.


I'm agree.

Warner

paul
>
> > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
> >
> > Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch
> prediction are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on
> 360/90 and lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him
> when it all came out and said - look at what you did.
> >
> > What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they
> first published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before
> someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security
> exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18
> months to reduce it to practice.
> > ᐧ
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning 
> wrote:
> > "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving
> speculative execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I
> suspect others here have a lot more knowledge.
> >
> >   paul
> >
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> From: co...@sdf.org
> >> Subject: VAX + Spectre
> >> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
> >> To: port-...@netbsd.org
> >>
> >> So, this is a bug report:
> >> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811
> >>
> >> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
> >> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
> >> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.
> >
> > ___
> > Simh mailing list
> > s...@trailing-edge.com
> > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
>

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

Yes, I understand that a number of ISAs are vulnerable.  The original paper by 
Kocher clearly mentions both x86 and ARM.

The reason I forwwarded the question is that I'm not aware enough of all the 
VAX variants to answer whether there are any VAXen with speculative execution.  
If no, then we're done, the answer is easy.  (That was the case when the 
question was asked for PDP11s.)  But if yes, then it becomes necessary to read 
the paper carefully to see if any of the prerequisites are implemented in some 
VAX, and if yes, what the fix might look like.

I'm reasonably comfortable assuming that the somewhat-related "Meltdown" 
vulnerability doesn't show up in VAX, because that issue requires a designer 
who'd implement page access checking in a way I would not expect a DEC engineer 
to do.

paul

> On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Clem Cole  wrote:
> 
> Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch prediction 
> are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on 360/90 and 
> lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him when it all 
> came out and said - look at what you did.
> 
> What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they first 
> published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before someone 
> even proposed that it was an issue and could become security exploit (by some 
> folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18 months to reduce 
> it to practice.
> ᐧ
> 
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning  wrote:
> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative 
> execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others 
> here have a lot more knowledge.
> 
>   paul
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: co...@sdf.org
>> Subject: VAX + Spectre
>> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
>> To: port-...@netbsd.org
>> 
>> So, this is a bug report:
>> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811
>> 
>> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
>> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
>> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> s...@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Clem Cole via cctalk]

Paul - be careful.  All CPU's post the IBM AGS that used branch prediction
are suspect.   Russ Robelen (who was the 360/50 lead, worked on 360/90 and
lead AGS) has the speculative executing patent.   I tweaked him when it all
came out and said - look at what you did.

What Russ and team are great ideas and we all have used them since they
first published about it.   And the fact is that it took 40 years before
someone even proposed that it was an issue and could become security
exploit (by some folks in German at a security conference) and it Google 18
months to reduce it to practice.
ᐧ

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:55 AM Paul Koning  wrote:

> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving
> speculative execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I
> suspect others here have a lot more knowledge.
>
> paul
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *co...@sdf.org
> *Subject: **VAX + Spectre*
> *Date: *September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
> *To: *port-...@netbsd.org
>
> So, this is a bug report:
> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811
>
> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.
>
>
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> s...@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 09/17/2019 08:55 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

"Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative 
execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others here have a 
lot more knowledge.


You need an extremely high resolution timer to detect slight 
differences in execution time of speculatively-executed 
threads. The VAX 11/780 certainly did not do speculative 
execution, and my guess is that all VAXen did not, either.  
Also, I don't think the timer was high enough resolution to 
detect such a difference.


The Alpha did do speculative execution, so it is remotely 
possible that you could play such games on that platform.


Without a deep understanding of how these exploits really 
work, I'm still a bit skeptical that it could actually be 
performed on real-world systems in a shared host data center.


Jon

Re: Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> "Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative
> execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others
> here have a lot more knowledge.

However, even speculative execution isn't enough to make Spectre possible or
feasible. For example, the PowerPC G3 and 7400 CPUs speculatively execute,
but because indirect branches can only be done on special-purpose registers
and the G3 and 7400 halt speculative execution until the SPR is loaded with
the destination address, this means they won't speculatively execute after
any indirect branch in code and makes them resistant to the currently known
variants of Spectre.

Given how weird the VAX can be in some respects, I wouldn't be surprised if
similar idiosyncratic behaviours exist that confound such attacks similarly.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2018/01/actual-field-testing-of-spectre-on.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- When you're in it up to your ears, keep your mouth shut. ---

Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

"Spectre" is one of two notorious bugs of modern CPUs involving speculative 
execution.  I rather doubt that VAX is affected by this but I suspect others 
here have a lot more knowledge.

paul

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: co...@sdf.org
> Subject: VAX + Spectre
> Date: September 17, 2019 at 5:32:42 AM EDT
> To: port-...@netbsd.org
> 
> So, this is a bug report:
> https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=86811
> 
> GCC would like to know if VAX needs Spectre-related work.
> Are any of the VAXes ever made capable of speculative execution? the
> first tech for doing it was in 1967, so not entirely far-fetched.

Fwd: Sun 3 with SCSI2SD

[Earl Baugh via cctalk]

Howdy,

Wondering if anyone has used a SCSI2SD card with a Sun 3 class machine. I
know Walter B has had success with the Sun 2( that’s next on my list after
I get the Sun 3/110 working with one. )

I have some Version 5 of the card. (I also have a version 3 card that I
tried long ago, with little success). The new current firmware is much more
understandable in terms of setting it up.
However with a known good image ( obtained from Walter B) I can’t get it to
go past the message “Waiting for disk to spin up...”
followed by “Please start it, if necessary , — OR — press a key to quit.”

I know the card doesn’t need to spin up  so question is, what is the boot
prom waiting for? I expect it’s just something off in my config but so far
everything I’ve tried yields the same result.

Anybody have a config.xml that works that they could share? ( and which
firmware version  it works with? )

Thanks

Earl



Sent from my iPhone

Fwd: Sun 3/XXX 240v power supply — switch to 115v — is it possible?

[Earl Baugh via cctalk]

Howdy,

I’ve recently gotten a second Sun 3/Xxx 3 slot VME chassis, however the
power supply is a EU version, 240v. I know on a number of “newer” power
supplies there is a switch to go from 240 to 115.  I’ve taken this one
apart ( at least to the point where it comes off the bottom of the VME
chassis — but left the thick cables still connected. )  I haven’t found any
switch or any indication that it can switch.  Googling and looking at the
FEH hasn’t yielded any info either.

Anybody know if it’s possible to switch this type of PS?

Thanks

Earl

Sent from my iPhone

Fwd: Sun 3/50

[Guy Fedorkow via cctalk]

Thanks for the interest!  A number of folks responded, I've replied to
the first responder, but of course I'll keep the next couple in line
handy in case something happens.
  /guy



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Sun 3/50
Date:   Sun, 17 Mar 2019 14:21:18 -0400
From:   Guy Fedorkow 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org



I have a Sun 3/50 diskless workstation in the Boston area, which I'd
like to see go to a good home.  I no longer have the monochrome monitor
that went with it, but I do have the original keyboard and mouse.  It
hasn't been powered up in some time, but worked without problems until I
took it out of service.
  Contact me at guy.fedorkow at gmail.com if you're interested?
Thanks
/guy

Fwd: Latest Batch of Items from Sellam's VWoCW

[Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk]

Sorry, moderation fail. Forwarding to cctalk:


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Latest Batch of Items from Sellam's VWoCW
Date:   Fri, 15 Feb 2019 20:27:12 -0800
From:   Sellam Ismail via cctech 
Reply-To: 	Sellam Ismail , General Discussion: 
On-Topic Posts 
To: 	General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 





Hello Folks!

I've put together another batch of items as I continue to wade through my
warehouse and winnow out the wonders:

HP 2116C System Manual #1
HP 2116C System Manual #2
HP 2116C System Manual #3
HP 2116C Power Cord
Using the HP 3000: An Introduction to Interactive Programming
Tandy WP-2 Portable Word Processor
M7859 KY11-LB Console Interface
Kraft 3-button PC Mouse
Mouse Systems 3-button PC Mouse
Zenith Z-Box External ISA Expansion Chassis
Novell IBM NIC ShareNet Board
Epson External 5.25" Floppy Drive
SuperMac Technology DataFrame DF20 20MB external hard disk
ClubMac C104 External SCSI CD-ROM Drive
Midiman Mini MacMan Macintosh MIDI Interface
Passport MIDI Interface for Macintosh
Neutronics Hexadigit S-100 Bus Monitor
Gimix Ghost 32K RAM
Compaq SLT/286 portable
VTech The Equalizer Laptop
IBM Model M Keyboard
IBM Model M Keyboard
IBM Model M Keyboard
IBM Model M Keyboard

The main index for these and other fine items is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit?pli=1#gid=949372371=A1

I've put some work into the index and improved it so that links keep
properly updated as new items are added or sold items are removed (whereas
before the index links in the New Arrivals Niche would get hopelessly out
of sync). However, I believe there might have been some problems with the
links before so if you saw an item you liked and the link did not lead to
it and you assumed it was sold, please check again. From this point going
forward, all links (above the notice in the sheet) should stay in sync.

I've been preoccupied for the last few months with personal business and
haven't been able to put a lot of time into curating the collection for
sales but I am trying to catch up. There are a couple people that are
waiting on me and I haven't forgotten about you. I will get caught up
shortly and I thank you for your patience.

As always, please contact me directly by e-mail via 


to make an order or an offer.

Thanks!

Sellam

Fwd: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

I thought folk might enjoy this short-ish (~12min) Youtube video
showing startup of arguably the first ever Sun workstation, from a
contemporaneous SunOS... I did.

Permission obtained before x-posting, naturally.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

-- Forwarded message -
From: Walter Belgers 
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 12:34
Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise
on Sun2 disk install)
To: The Rescue List 


Hi,

Another update in case you are interested:

I rescued a keyboard and mouse to go with the Sun2. I also installed SunOS 3.2
on disk. I took a different route: I installed FreeBSD, installed tme on top
of that and using the information at
https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/
,
http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Sun2
 and
http://typewritten.org/Projects/Sun/8-4841.html
 I installed SunOS 3.2 from
virtual tapes onto a virtual harddrive. I then copied the virtual drive to a
real drive and hooked it up. I could then boot SunOS 3.2!

I then took the one TTL monitor I have (for the 2/50) and hooked it up to a
bwtwo. At first it did not work, apparently it must be in a specific slot. I
added 1MB as well, so the cage is fully populated. That extra MB is used by
the btwo. The monitor still worked and I was able to run the graphical
windowing system.

I had the system on the internet for a couple of hours yesterday, some people
logged in remotely and it still felt surprisingly fast. Only when you start
hammering the disk it is slow (SCSI-1 is slower than ESDI drives I read).

I made a movie of the box, it can be viewed here: https://youtu.be/CoAYs0Uc7As


Cheers,
Walter.
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rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue