Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
OK always,worth checking! ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote: > On 23 May 2018, at 03:05, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > > Adrian ... That is great to hear! Any chance of a site photo? Sadly not, because of the nature of the site there’s no pictures allowed. A > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail > > On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk > wrote: > I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they > have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back > in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and > those little DGs are still going strong. > > -- > adrian/witchy > Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? > t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs > w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk > > On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > >> how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than >> ours... Ed# www.smecc.org >> >> In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, >> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: >> >> >>> >>> Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 >>> From: Ed Sharpe >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? >>> computer? >>> >>> While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data >>> General ...odd? computer? >>> I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# >>> ? >>> ? >>> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ >> DG10_1-300x227.jpg >>> " >>> >>> >> The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. >> >> Michael Thompson >> > -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
> On 23 May 2018, at 03:05, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > > Adrian ... That is great to hear! Any chance of a site photo? Sadly not, because of the nature of the site there’s no pictures allowed. A > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail > > On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk > wrote: > I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they > have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back > in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and > those little DGs are still going strong. > > -- > adrian/witchy > Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? > t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs > w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk > > On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > >> how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than >> ours... Ed# www.smecc.org >> >> In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, >> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: >> >> >>> >>> Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 >>> From: Ed Sharpe >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? >>> computer? >>> >>> While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data >>> General ...odd? computer? >>> I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# >>> ? >>> ? >>> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ >> DG10_1-300x227.jpg >>> " >>> >>> >> The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. >> >> Michael Thompson >> > -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
Adrian ... That is great to hear! Any chance of a site photo? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote: I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and those little DGs are still going strong. -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than > ours... Ed# www.smecc.org > > In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > > > > > Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 > > From: Ed Sharpe > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? > > computer? > > > > While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data > > General ...odd? computer? > > I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# > > ? > > ? > > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ > DG10_1-300x227.jpg > > " > > > > > The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. > > Michael Thompson >
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
G'day Zane - Like every other computer system created, the Desktop Generation has its own set of quirks and wonders. It was an interesting evolutionary repackage of the microEclipse processor, but I never saw a customer or user site actually using the Model 10's MS-DOS "compatibility feature". The hardware consisted of modular metal frame chassis with snap-on plastic covers. While great for manufacturing and cost control, the delicate plastic cover retaining tabs were always breaking and the covers would pull away from the chassis or just fall off. Only an annoying cosmetic problem until you find that a "dead man's switch" interlock was maintained by the power supply chassis front cover. Yes, the power supply would always be cut off whenever the plastic cover shifted, vibrated or fell off the chassis. Which happened often. (The cheapest solution was the unintended, creative use of a ball point pen combined with nerd engineering.) Many OEMS delivered DG/RDOS- or AOS-based applications written in ICOBOL or Business BASIC (i.e. NAPA). These were good systems for OEMs who had previously developed software for DG - providing their application was not disk-bound. DG eventually was forced to design and sell a parallel I/O bus option to help improve disk performance... to the confusion of customers previously told of the benefits of a serial I/O bus design. The system was followed by the DG/500, which had a similar hardware functional microEclipse-based design but enclosed in a then-familiar IBM PC AT (desktop) form factor. This was the final unsuccessful attempt to defend the low-end 16-bit Eclipse line from the PC onslaught. - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and those little DGs are still going strong. -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than > ours... Ed# www.smecc.org > > In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > > > > > Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 > > From: Ed Sharpe > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? > > computer? > > > > While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data > > General ...odd? computer? > > I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# > > ? > > ? > > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ > DG10_1-300x227.jpg > > " > > > > > The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. > > Michael Thompson >
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than ours... Ed# www.smecc.org In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 > From: Ed Sharpe > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? > computer? > > While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data > General ...odd? computer? > I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# > ? > ? > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg > " > > The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. Michael Thompson
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?
> > Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400 > From: Ed Sharpe > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? > computer? > > While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data > General ...odd? computer? > I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed# > ? > ? > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg > " > > The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site. Michael Thompson
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
G'day Zane - Like every other computer system created, the Desktop Generation has its own set of quirks and wonders. It was an interesting evolutionary repackage of the microEclipse processor, but I never saw a customer or user site actually using the Model 10's MS-DOS "compatibility feature". The hardware consisted of modular metal frame chassis with snap-on plastic covers. While great for manufacturing and cost control, the delicate plastic cover retaining tabs were always breaking and the covers would pull away from the chassis or just fall off. Only an annoying cosmetic problem until you find that a "dead man's switch" interlock was maintained by the power supply chassis front cover. Yes, the power supply would always be cut off whenever the plastic cover shifted, vibrated or fell off the chassis. Which happened often. (The cheapest solution was the unintended, creative use of a ball point pen combined with nerd engineering.) Many OEMS delivered DG/RDOS- or AOS-based applications written in ICOBOL or Business BASIC (i.e. NAPA). These were good systems for OEMs who had previously developed software for DG - providing their application was not disk-bound. DG eventually was forced to design and sell a parallel I/O bus option to help improve disk performance... to the confusion of customers previously told of the benefits of a serial I/O bus design. The system was followed by the DG/500, which had a similar hardware functional microEclipse-based design but enclosed in a then-familiar IBM PC AT (desktop) form factor. This was the final unsuccessful attempt to defend the low-end 16-bit Eclipse line from the PC onslaught. - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org On 5/21/2018 6:36 PM, Zane Healy wrote: Thank you Bruce, I took quick look through, and will need to go back and read up on the hardware bits, Chapter 4 looks like it goes into the stuff I’m curious about. I’m normally a software guy, but this is one case, where the hardware is of more interest. Thanks, Zane On May 21, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Bruce Ray wrote: G'day Zane - I have placed Desktop Generation information for you at: www.NovasAreForever.org/tmp/014-000751-00__The_Desktop_Generation__1983-Jul.01.pdf - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org On 5/20/2018 6:37 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk wrote: G'day Ed - That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, one version also contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-) The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures of your system? Bruce It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long dreamed of. It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system. Are any manuals for it online? Zane
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
Thank you Bruce, I took quick look through, and will need to go back and read up on the hardware bits, Chapter 4 looks like it goes into the stuff I’m curious about. I’m normally a software guy, but this is one case, where the hardware is of more interest. Thanks, Zane > On May 21, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Bruce Ray wrote: > > G'day Zane - > > > I have placed Desktop Generation information for you at: > www.NovasAreForever.org/tmp/014-000751-00__The_Desktop_Generation__1983-Jul.01.pdf > > > - > > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > Boulder, Colorado USA > b...@wildharecomputers.com > > ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org > > > - > > Bruce Ray > Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. > Boulder, Colorado USA > b...@wildharecomputers.com > > ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org > > On 5/20/2018 6:37 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: >> On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk >> wrote: >>> >>> G'day Ed - >>> >>> That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data >>> General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing >>> the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in >>> DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data >>> General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit >>> microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented >>> (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, >>> one version also contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run >>> newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die >>> microcomputer market. ;-) >>> >>> The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which >>> simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable >>> (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations >>> were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. >>> >>> The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs >>> worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional >>> minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. >>> >>> And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures >>> of your system? >>> >>> >>> Bruce >> It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long >> dreamed of. It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system. Are any >> manuals for it online? >> Zane
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
EXCELLENT MANUAL! ED# In a message dated 5/21/2018 12:22:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: G'day Zane - I have placed Desktop Generation information for you at: www.NovasAreForever.org/tmp/014-000751-00__The_Desktop_Generation__1983-Jul.01.pdf - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org On 5/20/2018 6:37 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk > wrote: >> >> G'day Ed - >> >> That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data >> General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing >> the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's >> effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data >> General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse >> processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form >> factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, one version also >> contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS >> software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-) >> >> The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which >> simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable (except >> for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very >> slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. >> >> The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs >> worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional >> minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. >> >> And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures of >> your system? >> >> >> Bruce > > It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long > dreamed of. It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system. Are any > manuals for it online? > > Zane > >
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
G'day Zane - I have placed Desktop Generation information for you at: www.NovasAreForever.org/tmp/014-000751-00__The_Desktop_Generation__1983-Jul.01.pdf - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org On 5/20/2018 6:37 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk wrote: G'day Ed - That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, one version also contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-) The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures of your system? Bruce It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long dreamed of. It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system. Are any manuals for it online? Zane
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk wrote: > > G'day Ed - > > That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data > General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing the > DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's > effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data > General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse > processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form > factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, one version also > contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS > software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-) > > The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which > simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable (except > for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very > slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. > > The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs > worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional > minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. > > And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures of > your system? > > > Bruce It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long dreamed of. It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system. Are any manuals for it online? Zane
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
G'day Ed - That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems and software. However, one version also contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-) The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very reliable (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design. The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s. And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have pictures of your system? Bruce - Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. Boulder, Colorado USA b...@wildharecomputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org On 5/20/2018 5:29 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: In a message dated 5/20/2018 4:14:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: While in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer I do not remember buying it! Ed# "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
many many thanks Chuck! I have sent him email and a webmail from his site. again! fantastic thanks for your help! Ed# In a message dated 5/20/2018 4:14:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > While in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic Data General > ...odd computer > I do not remember buying it! Ed# > > > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg"; > > take the quotes away and p It might be a good idea to check with Bruce Ray (Wild Hare Computer Systems). He's a font of knowledge on all things DG. --Chuck
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
On 05/20/2018 03:04 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > While in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic Data General > ...odd computer > I do not remember buying it! Ed# > > > "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg"; > > take the quotes away and p It might be a good idea to check with Bruce Ray (Wild Hare Computer Systems). He's a font of knowledge on all things DG. --Chuck
Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
On Sun, 20 May 2018, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: While in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer I do not remember buying it! Ed# Had you left related ones unsupervised?
I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer
While in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer I do not remember buying it! Ed# "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg"; take the quotes away and put in browser see photo There are 2 only I find on net... correct me if there are more please especially if there are manual links... the only one physically is one at chm that is not as wide. ( maybe no hard drive or less i/o options?) Any other sites with info? 1981 and multi user micro... cool! link to smyth retail site that used these https://www.smythretail.com/our-team/smyth-history-a-tradition-in-automation/ link to photo only "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg"; take the quotes away and put in browser see photo
