Re: ODEC/ Data 100/ LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Jon Elson]

On 01/31/2017 06:45 AM, David Gesswein wrote:

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 10:27:49PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

I think we had an Odec chain printer that another group gave us to
use on our VAX.  I hacked it up to shut off the chain motor when it
wasn't printing, and then restart it when print data came in.


Mine has a switch to select that and control codes to turn it off and on.
I seem to remember it turned out VERY easy to do this.  I'm 
guessing my unit had control codes, but we didn't want to 
hack the VAX software, so I rigged a one-shot to do it instead.



Mine has the same path.  The manual has a procedure for adjusting the guides
for ribbon foldover problems.  It came with multistrike film ribbons so
hopefully they won't be a pain. Looks like they used 35mm film reels for
the ribbon. Were you using normal inked cloth?
Yes, inked cloth ribbons.  They were cheap, but ran properly 
for a short time before they started skewing.  You could 
either replace the ribbon after 1/10th of the print life was 
exhausted or keep fiddling with the tracking to try to get 
to 50% usage.


At home I had a HUGE Honeywell 300 LPM drum printer with a 
weird character set and a totally nonstandard interface.
it also used a folded ribbon scheme, with 2" wide ribbons.  
That one NEVER had ribbon tracking issues, you could run the 
ribbon until you could see through it, and it still tracked 
fine.  I never knew WHY the tracking on the Odec was so 
finicky.  Possibly just we were using crummy ribbons that 
were not made with the right cloth.  I don't think we ever 
bought ribbons for it, the people who gave it to us gave us 
a box of new ribbons.

  Good to know its a nice
printer otherwise. Pretty slow for a chain printer, only 125 LPM. Haven't
figured out if its a real difference or board jumpers between it and the
1423 200 LPM.
OK, ours was also slow, but it had lower and upper case.  I 
suspect a different chain with upper case only would print 
twice as fast.


Jon

Re: ODEC/ Data 100/ LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[David Gesswein]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 10:27:49PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> >
> I think we had an Odec chain printer that another group gave us to
> use on our VAX.  I hacked it up to shut off the chain motor when it
> wasn't printing, and then restart it when print data came in.
>
Mine has a switch to select that and control codes to turn it off and on.

>  It
> had a HORRIBLE habit of running the ribbon off the track and
> crumpling the edges.  It had some bars with 45 degree angles that
> folded the ribbon over to make a 90 degree change in direction to
> the reels.  When the ribbon was just a little used, it lost some
> stiffness and started folding and rolling over the edges.  Then the
> chain would grab it and make a mess.  Otherwise, it was a REALLY
> nice printer.
> 
Mine has the same path.  The manual has a procedure for adjusting the guides
for ribbon foldover problems.  It came with multistrike film ribbons so 
hopefully they won't be a pain. Looks like they used 35mm film reels for
the ribbon. Were you using normal inked cloth? Good to know its a nice
printer otherwise. Pretty slow for a chain printer, only 125 LPM. Haven't
figured out if its a real difference or board jumpers between it and the
1423 200 LPM.

Re: ODEC/ Data 100/ LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2017 10:27 PM, Jon Elson wrote:




I think we had an Odec chain printer that another group 
gave us to use on our VAX.  I hacked it up to shut off the 
chain motor when it wasn't printing, and then restart it 
when print data came in. It had a HORRIBLE habit of 
running the ribbon off the track and crumpling the edges.  
It had some bars with 45 degree angles that folded the 
ribbon over to make a 90 degree change in direction to the 
reels.  When the ribbon was just a little used, it lost 
some stiffness and started folding and rolling over the 
edges.  Then the chain would grab it and make a mess.  
Otherwise, it was a REALLY nice printer.


Yes, I looked up a picture online, and I am pretty sure the 
thing we had was indeed an Odec like in the brochure.  If it 
hadn't been for that horrible ribbon mechanism, it would 
have been a REALLY good printer.  You can just barely make 
out the ribbon path in the picture with the gate folded open.


Jon

Re: ODEC/ Data 100/ LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2017 06:42 PM, David Gesswein wrote:

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 02:00:55PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:

Finally I managed to scan it correctly.

It is the MP00075 which does not seem to be online.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1VjF1ZXJpSVBTZ1JBelFYMjRDR2VtYVRfSWw0


Thanks. Now have my ODEC/Data 100 model 1422 chain printer working with my 8/E.

Anybody heard of that company or familiar with the printer? It seems to have
changed name from ODEC to Data 100 at time time. Was located in Warwick
Rhode Island.
Earlier model but similar http://www.dvq.com/ads/acm/odec_acm_72.pdf


I think we had an Odec chain printer that another group gave 
us to use on our VAX.  I hacked it up to shut off the chain 
motor when it wasn't printing, and then restart it when 
print data came in.  It had a HORRIBLE habit of running the 
ribbon off the track and crumpling the edges.  It had some 
bars with 45 degree angles that folded the ribbon over to 
make a 90 degree change in direction to the reels.  When the 
ribbon was just a little used, it lost some stiffness and 
started folding and rolling over the edges.  Then the chain 
would grab it and make a mess.  Otherwise, it was a REALLY 
nice printer.


Jon

ODEC/ Data 100/ LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[David Gesswein]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 02:00:55PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> Finally I managed to scan it correctly.
> 
> It is the MP00075 which does not seem to be online.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1VjF1ZXJpSVBTZ1JBelFYMjRDR2VtYVRfSWw0
> 
Thanks. Now have my ODEC/Data 100 model 1422 chain printer working with my 8/E.

Anybody heard of that company or familiar with the printer? It seems to have 
changed name from ODEC to Data 100 at time time. Was located in Warwick 
Rhode Island.
Earlier model but similar http://www.dvq.com/ads/acm/odec_acm_72.pdf

Based on the little information found online it looks like this wasn't the most
popular printer.

I have the manual for it but my printer is 1975 and the manual is 1978 and
possibly for model 1423. A number of boards don't match what I have in my 
printer.  Anybody have earlier or 1422 manual?

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Mattis Lind]

2017-01-20 14:00 GMT+01:00 Mattis Lind :

>
> 2017-01-19 18:27 GMT+01:00 David Gesswein :
>
>> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
>> >
>> > OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
>> >
>> > /Mattis
>> >
>> Did you get time to scan it yet?
>>
>
> Finally I managed to scan it correctly.
>
> It is the MP00075 which does not seem to be online.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1VjF1ZXJpSVBTZ1JBelFY
> MjRDR2VtYVRfSWw0
>

So I also scanned another document which I didn't find online, the LC8-L
parallell control for LA30-P,

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1dXNsUUl3Rmc0ZjRkdXc1ZllDdzlRX1F5UVl3



BTW. If someone wants a real LA180 to connect with their PDP-8/e I have two
in decent shape. Big and bulky, yes. Difficult and expensive to ship, yes.
But it is a Decprinter I ! Trade for something interesting...

/Mattis

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Mattis Lind]

2017-01-19 18:27 GMT+01:00 David Gesswein :

> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> > OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
> >
> > /Mattis
> >
> Did you get time to scan it yet?
>

Finally I managed to scan it correctly.

It is the MP00075 which does not seem to be online.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-rp4vyPPYu1VjF1ZXJpSVBTZ1JBelFYMjRDR2VtYVRfSWw0

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Charles Dickman]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Marc Howard  wrote:
> Speaking of the LA-180 has anyone noticed the note in the PDP8A manual:
>
> "The General-Purpose Parallel I/O on the D etch revision
> of the M8316 module can be used as an interface for the
> LA 180. Data to the LA I80 must be supplied in com-
> plemented form. The IOTs are different from the LA8
> interface designed for the LA 180. A BC80-A cable, avail-
> able from DIGITAL, must be used to connect the General-
> Purpose Parallel I/O to the LA 180.
>
> Does OS8 know how to handle this way of interfacing a printer?

LPSV.PA has a compile time switch for LA180 and it includes a
complement before and after the character is written to the printer
buffer. I believe that some versions of SET have the capability of
modifying LPSV.BN to work with the LA180 at runtime. It is also
possible to use SET to modify the instructions directly.

Interestingly, the LPSV handler only contains two printer IOTs: one to
write the character and one to check the printer flag.

-chuck

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Marc Howard]

Speaking of the LA-180 has anyone noticed the note in the PDP8A manual:

"The General-Purpose Parallel I/O on the D etch revision
of the M8316 module can be used as an interface for the
LA 180. Data to the LA I80 must be supplied in com-
plemented form. The IOTs are different from the LA8
interface designed for the LA 180. A BC80-A cable, avail-
able from DIGITAL, must be used to connect the General-
Purpose Parallel I/O to the LA 180.

Does OS8 know how to handle this way of interfacing a printer?

Marc

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:27 AM, David Gesswein  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> > OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
> >
> > /Mattis
> >
> Did you get time to scan it yet?
>
>

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Mattis Lind]

torsdag 19 januari 2017 skrev David Gesswein :

> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> > OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
> >
> > /Mattis
> >
> Did you get time to scan it yet?
>

Sorry.  Not yet. Too much at work. I make a try tomorrow. I don't have an
A3 scanner home so I need to handle it at work.

/Mattis

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[william degnan]

Dave I have one if you want to borrow mine for comparison purposes

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Jan 19, 2017 12:28 PM, "David Gesswein"  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> >
> > OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
> >
> > /Mattis
> >
> Did you get time to scan it yet?
>

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[David Gesswein]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Mattis Lind wrote:
> 
> OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.
> 
> /Mattis
> 
Did you get time to scan it yet?

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Mattis Lind]

2017-01-05 19:37 GMT+01:00 Ethan Dicks :

> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Mattis Lind 
> wrote:
> >> Is this the printset you are looking for?
> >>
> >> https://imgur.com/a/4uDS4
>
> Ah... MP-00075... I didn't see it on Bitsavers and Manx says "No
> copies are known to be online"
>

OK. I'll bring it home and will scan it sometime next week.

/Mattis


>
> http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,6163
>
> >> https://imgur.com/a/mDvhD
>
> Nice.
>
> > Yes! That looks like it.
>
> Looks like it's 7 bits (D5-D11 -> P01-P07).
>
> -ethan
>

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Charles Dickman]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
>>> Is this the printset you are looking for?
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/4uDS4

>
> Looks like it's 7 bits (D5-D11 -> P01-P07).

I noticed that when looking at the board last night. The OS/8 printer
handlers mask to 7 bits also. But its ASCII right, so that all you
should ever need.

-chuck

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Ethan Dicks]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
>> Is this the printset you are looking for?
>>
>> https://imgur.com/a/4uDS4

Ah... MP-00075... I didn't see it on Bitsavers and Manx says "No
copies are known to be online"

http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,6163

>> https://imgur.com/a/mDvhD

Nice.

> Yes! That looks like it.

Looks like it's 7 bits (D5-D11 -> P01-P07).

-ethan

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Charles Dickman]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
> Is this the printset you are looking for?
>
> https://imgur.com/a/4uDS4
>
> https://imgur.com/a/mDvhD
>
> Sorry for top-posting. I hope the links are ok. Posting from the phone...
>

Yes! That looks like it.

Thanks,

-chuck

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Al Kossow]

don't have them it turns out. mistook LC8-E for LC8-P


On 1/5/17 7:56 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> we have them
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102752995
> 
> i'll see about getting them on line by noon
> 

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[william degnan]

Most of what I have is related to the serial interfacing with the LA180.
Bill

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Mattis Lind]

Is this the printset you are looking for?

https://imgur.com/a/4uDS4

https://imgur.com/a/mDvhD

Sorry for top-posting. I hope the links are ok. Posting from the phone...


onsdag 4 januari 2017 skrev Charles Dickman :

> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Christian Corti
> > wrote:
> > On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Charles Dickman  > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
> >>> interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
> >>> can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't have the schematics (I do have an LC8-P somewhere), but I
> >> remember back in the day, people wanted to go the other way - feed a
> >> PC printer w/Centronics interface from a DEC interface.
> >
> >
> > It's not the other way, it's the same way ;-) (attatching a Centronics/PC
> > printer to a DEC interface)
>
> Yes, I want to connected an OKIDATA Microline82A to the PDP8/e.
>
> Looking at the LA180 manual's description of the LC8-P interface, it
> is pretty close to Centronics. I expect it is more than just a cable,
> though, because there is also an OMNIBUS Centronics printer interface
> board (LS8-E). That schematic is on bitsavers.
>
> I also have an LE8-E (M841), but that only provides 7 data bits to the
> printer.
>
> -chuck
>

LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[David Gesswein]

I would also be interested in schematics. I have just started looking at this
board to try to use it with a ODEC/Data 100 chain printer.

> Looking at the LA180 manual's description of the LC8-P interface, it
> is pretty close to Centronics. I expect it is more than just a cable,
> though, because there is also an OMNIBUS Centronics printer interface
> board (LS8-E). That schematic is on bitsavers.
>
It looked to me the LA180 protocol is demand and busy high when ok
to send character then the data is strobed in with data strobe pulse.

Centronics is handshaked with strobe and busy so a little different.

The board is simple enough that tracing it out is feasible if needed.
Haven't plugged in the board yet to see how the signals behave.
Still working on the printer.

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Charles Dickman]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Christian Corti
 wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
>>> interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
>>> can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.
>>
>>
>> I don't have the schematics (I do have an LC8-P somewhere), but I
>> remember back in the day, people wanted to go the other way - feed a
>> PC printer w/Centronics interface from a DEC interface.
>
>
> It's not the other way, it's the same way ;-) (attatching a Centronics/PC
> printer to a DEC interface)

Yes, I want to connected an OKIDATA Microline82A to the PDP8/e.

Looking at the LA180 manual's description of the LC8-P interface, it
is pretty close to Centronics. I expect it is more than just a cable,
though, because there is also an OMNIBUS Centronics printer interface
board (LS8-E). That schematic is on bitsavers.

I also have an LE8-E (M841), but that only provides 7 data bits to the printer.

-chuck

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Christian Corti
 wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
>>> I want to see if I can use it to interface to a Centronics interface 
>>> printer.
>>
>> ... but I remember back in the day, people wanted to go the other way - feed 
>> a
>> PC printer w/Centronics interface from a DEC interface.
>
> It's not the other way, it's the same way ;-) (attatching a Centronics/PC
> printer to a DEC interface)

Ah, yes... I was thinking about a Usenet article from long ago
describing the other way.

Enjoy!

-ethan

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Christian Corti]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:

I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.


I don't have the schematics (I do have an LC8-P somewhere), but I
remember back in the day, people wanted to go the other way - feed a
PC printer w/Centronics interface from a DEC interface.


It's not the other way, it's the same way ;-) (attatching a Centronics/PC 
printer to a DEC interface)


Christian

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Paul Anderson]

If you can't find them, I'll look Sunday. I'll be out of town for a few
days.
Paul

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:

> I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
> interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
> can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.
>
> -chuck
>

Re: LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Charles Dickman  wrote:
> I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
> interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
> can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.

I don't have the schematics (I do have an LC8-P somewhere), but I
remember back in the day, people wanted to go the other way - feed a
PC printer w/Centronics interface from a DEC interface.

There some discussion of this here...
http://www.verycomputer.com/7_6d5ee14552657121_1.htm

I don't know if Berg pin S on the LC8-P is a mode select like it is on
an LP11/LPV11 (perhaps the LC8-P doesn't switch modes), but it
shouldn't be hard to trace that out.  The data and handshake lines
should be at the same positions or the LC8-P wouldn't be able drive an
LA-180.

-ethan

LC8-P (M8365) PDP8 printer interface schematics

[Charles Dickman]

I am looking for schematics or any documentation for the LA180
interface for the PDP8/e. A scan would be great. I want to see if I
can use it to interface to a Centronics interface printer.

-chuck