Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've seen this on digicams with CF cards.  2GB is the "official" limit to 
FAT16 filesystems.  However, XP and later can format 4GB cards to FAT16 as 
well--and it seems to work very well with my older cameras, which do not 
understand FAT32.


While, at the time, 2G seemed "infinite", even then, I was amused at the 
2G limitation being due to the use of a SIGNED 32 bit number.  The size 
can be anywhere from -2147483648 to 2147483647.

By switching to an UNSIGNED 32, NT and the like made the limit 4G.

I had a few hard drives that were getting crowded, so I stomped on 
DIRectory entries on some floppies and made some files with negative file 
sizes.  I confirmed empirically that copying a file with a negative size 
to the drive did NOT increase free space.

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
If that 128GB SD card is such a bother, I'll trade a 2MB CF card for it--it 
shouldn't take very long for a directory listing... :)


I'll raise that 2MB offer to a 2GB card!  (is Micro-SD + adapter OK?)
When it seemed likely that 2G would be going away, I stocked up on some 
for the few devices that relally couldn't handle >31 bit memory address.

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/01/2016 12:36 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:


While, at the time, 2G seemed "infinite", even then, I was amused at
the 2G limitation being due to the use of a SIGNED 32 bit number.
The size can be anywhere from -2147483648 to 2147483647. By switching
to an UNSIGNED 32, NT and the like made the limit 4G.

I had a few hard drives that were getting crowded, so I stomped on
DIRectory entries on some floppies and made some files with negative
 file sizes.  I confirmed empirically that copying a file with a
negative size to the drive did NOT increase free space.


I was under the impression that, in FAT16, 2GB was still the limit to 
*file* size, but a 4GB *volume* size was okay.   It, as far as I know, 
isn't so much a limitation on 32-bit numbers, but rather the combination 
of the FAT and cluster sizes that dooms it.


What's funny is that in the old pre MS-DOS 3.3 days, one of the ways to 
trick DOS into supporting larger volumes was to increase the (apparent) 
sector size with code to block up 512 byte sectors into larger (1024, 
2048, etc.) apparent ones--and a few DOS patches.


--Chuck

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/01/2016 01:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:


Another way, starting with PC/MS-DOS 3.10 was using MSCDEX, or
equivalent. I think that there used to be some very strange patches
around to let a hard drive impersonate a CD-ROM. A CD-ROM (2/3 G) was
not a local drive to the OS!  It was presented as being a
"drive-like" object on a network. That is a VERY LOCAL area network.


Yup, DOS networking "hooks". The interesting thing is that DOS doesn't 
deal with allocation or nasty things like that--all of the file access 
is essentially in the network interface.  I did a couple of those 
drivers for some really strange (sector != multiple of 256) alien 
filesystems.


--Chuck

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/01/2016 12:25 PM, Jim Brain wrote:


I understand that, but the OP was talking about a SD card add-on (I
assume for the 64) that only accepts 2GB cards.  AFAIK, all of them
accept FAT32 now.  Since I sell one of the variants, and I have
snarky people ask me how big a SD card mine will handle, I have here
a 64 with a 128GB SD-card equipped drive :-).  Works fine, though the
root dir listing takes a LOOONG time :-)


Oh, okay--based on experience with older gear, I was curious if it was a 
FAT16/32 issue.


If that 128GB SD card is such a bother, I'll trade a 2MB CF card for 
it--it shouldn't take very long for a directory listing... :)


--Chuck

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Jim Brain]

On 1/1/2016 1:54 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 01/01/2016 11:03 AM, Jim Brain wrote:

On 1/1/2016 12:50 AM, Mike wrote:

Thank you G for the info that guy was quite young. . . So now I
guess Ill buy the SD card addon but the only problem is that I have
seen you can only use a 2 gig SD card in them is that right?

Can you clarify?  I'm not aware of a SD card add-on for the C64 that
can only do 2GB SD cards.


I've seen this on digicams with CF cards.  2GB is the "official" limit 
to FAT16 filesystems.  However, XP and later can format 4GB cards to 
FAT16 as well--and it seems to work very well with my older cameras, 
which do not understand FAT32.


--Chuck

I understand that, but the OP was talking about a SD card add-on (I 
assume for the 64) that only accepts 2GB cards.  AFAIK, all of them 
accept FAT32 now.  Since I sell one of the variants, and I have snarky 
people ask me how big a SD card mine will handle, I have here a 64 with 
a 128GB SD-card equipped drive :-).  Works fine, though the root dir 
listing takes a LOOONG time :-)


(Yes, the card came formatted as exFAT, which is not supported. Luckily, 
it is trivial to format a SD card as FAT32 no matter the size)


Jim

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/01/2016 11:03 AM, Jim Brain wrote:

On 1/1/2016 12:50 AM, Mike wrote:

Thank you G for the info that guy was quite young. . . So now I
guess Ill buy the SD card addon but the only problem is that I have
seen you can only use a 2 gig SD card in them is that right?

Can you clarify?  I'm not aware of a SD card add-on for the C64 that
can only do 2GB SD cards.


I've seen this on digicams with CF cards.  2GB is the "official" limit 
to FAT16 filesystems.  However, XP and later can format 4GB cards to 
FAT16 as well--and it seems to work very well with my older cameras, 
which do not understand FAT32.


--Chuck

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Jim Brain]

On 1/1/2016 2:36 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've seen this on digicams with CF cards. 2GB is the "official" limit 
to FAT16 filesystems.  However, XP and later can format 4GB cards to 
FAT16 as well--and it seems to work very well with my older cameras, 
which do not understand FAT32.


While, at the time, 2G seemed "infinite", even then, I was amused at 
the 2G limitation being due to the use of a SIGNED 32 bit number.  The 
size can be anywhere from -2147483648 to 2147483647.

By switching to an UNSIGNED 32, NT and the like made the limit 4G.

I think it was actually the sectors per cluster number, which was -64 to 
63, I believe and then got changed to 0-128, meaning cluster sizes of 
128 512-byte sectors, or 64K clusters


I know folks will hate on the format, but I am extremely impressed with 
the FAT format.  To go all the way from floppies to 4TB drives is 
impressive.


Jim




--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:
What's funny is that in the old pre MS-DOS 3.3 days, one of the ways to trick 
DOS into supporting larger volumes was to increase the (apparent) sector size 
with code to block up 512 byte sectors into larger (1024, 2048, etc.) 
apparent ones--and a few DOS patches.


Another way, starting with PC/MS-DOS 3.10 was using MSCDEX, or equivalent.
I think that there used to be some very strange patches around to let a 
hard drive impersonate a CD-ROM.
A CD-ROM (2/3 G) was not a local drive to the OS!  It was presented as 
being a "drive-like" object on a network.

That is a VERY LOCAL area network.

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/01/2016 01:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:


Another way, starting with PC/MS-DOS 3.10 was using MSCDEX, or
equivalent. I think that there used to be some very strange patches
around to let a hard drive impersonate a CD-ROM. A CD-ROM (2/3 G) was
not a local drive to the OS!  It was presented as being a
"drive-like" object on a network. That is a VERY LOCAL area network.


It really was amazing how quickly hard drive sizes overran system 
vendors' expectations.  You'd think that system software authors would 
anticipate very large drives right from the start.  But stumbling along 
with 16MB, then 32MB drive size limits just illustrates how 
backward-thinking folks were.  CP/M 2.2 had, what, an 8MB hard drive 
limit initially?  That was backward even for 1980.


And then you get a surprise every once in awhile.  I was incredulous 
that one of my "devices" had a limit of 2GB on a CF drive, but the thing 
actually understood a DOS partition table.  So you could take a 4GB or 
more drive, partition off the first 2GB and you're still gold.  Can't 
swap partitions--the thing just takes the first one in the table, but 
still pretty surprising.


--Chuck

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Mike]

On 12/28/2015 03:25 PM, geneb wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2015, Paul Berger wrote:
>
>> On 2015-12-28 12:13 PM, geneb wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:
>>>
 Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

>>> No.  The company folded years ago after the founder and driving
>>> force behind the whole mess, died.
>>>
>>> g.
>>>
>> The man who founded Commodore, Jack Tramiel resigned from the company
>> in 1984, Commodore went on for another 10 years before declaring
>> bankruptcy in 1994.   Tramiel died of heart failure in 2012.
>
> I'm well aware of that (as are most if not all Commodore nerds).  I
> was referring to the guy that stood up Commodore USA to build PCs in a
> similar form factor to the original breadbox C-64.  He died
> unexpectedly and the company folded.  It would have likely done so
> anyway, but Barry Altman's untimely death hastened it.
>
> Don't try to teach your grandmother how to steal sheep.
>
> g.
>
>
Thank you G for the info that guy was quite young. . . So now I guess
Ill buy the SD card addon but the only problem is that I have seen you
can only use a 2 gig SD card in them is that right?

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Jim Brain]

On 1/1/2016 12:50 AM, Mike wrote:

Thank you G for the info that guy was quite young. . . So now I guess
Ill buy the SD card addon but the only problem is that I have seen you
can only use a 2 gig SD card in them is that right?
Can you clarify?  I'm not aware of a SD card add-on for the C64 that can 
only do 2GB SD cards.


Jim


--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Sam O'nella]

They sold some units of the c64x. I think there are still some on our local 
austin craigslist but like most folks said hardware isn't really interesting 
enough to me to justify the cost.  

I cant remember where or who also produced a small (eepc? Or mini asus laptop 
running linux but badges with the commodore logo. 

The latest relicense grab I'm aware of is only available in Europe but is a 
phone calling itself the commodore pet http://commodoresmart.com/ i imagine 
they're probably trying to work out the legal purchase from commodore usa to 
use the logo if they care for a US release. 

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[geneb]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:


Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No.  The company folded years ago after the founder and driving force 
behind the whole mess, died.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Paul Berger]

On 2015-12-28 12:13 PM, geneb wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:


Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No.  The company folded years ago after the founder and driving force 
behind the whole mess, died.


g.

The man who founded Commodore, Jack Tramiel resigned from the company in 
1984, Commodore went on for another 10 years before declaring bankruptcy 
in 1994.   Tramiel died of heart failure in 2012.

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[geneb]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015, Paul Berger wrote:


On 2015-12-28 12:13 PM, geneb wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:


Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No.  The company folded years ago after the founder and driving force 
behind the whole mess, died.


g.

The man who founded Commodore, Jack Tramiel resigned from the company in 
1984, Commodore went on for another 10 years before declaring bankruptcy in 
1994.   Tramiel died of heart failure in 2012.


I'm well aware of that (as are most if not all Commodore nerds).  I was 
referring to the guy that stood up Commodore USA to build PCs in a similar 
form factor to the original breadbox C-64.  He died unexpectedly and the 
company folded.  It would have likely done so anyway, but Barry Altman's 
untimely death hastened it.


Don't try to teach your grandmother how to steal sheep.

g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Jim Brain]

On 12/28/2015 12:56 PM, Paul Berger wrote:

On 2015-12-28 12:13 PM, geneb wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2015, Mike wrote:


Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No.  The company folded years ago after the founder and driving force 
behind the whole mess, died.


g.

The man who founded Commodore, Jack Tramiel resigned from the company 
in 1984, Commodore went on for another 10 years before declaring 
bankruptcy in 1994.   Tramiel died of heart failure in 2012.

He meant the founder of Commodore USA (Barry Altman)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA



--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Mike]

Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?


>From PC-World

"  

The new Commodore 64  is,
like the old 64, an entire system inside a (rather thick) keyboard. The
old Commodore 64

originally cost $595 and featured an MOS Technology 6510
 microprocessor, an
impressive 64KB of RAM, and VIC-II
 graphics that
supported a screen resolution of 320 by 200 pixels.

The new system, which also starts at $595, is a little more modern: it's
got a Dual Core 525 Atom processor, an Nvidia Ion2 graphics chipset, 2GB
of RAM (upgradeable to 4GB), a 160GB hard drive, and built-in Wi-Fi. On
the left side of the keyboard there's a slot or tray-load DVD
(upgradeable to Blu-ray), and on the right side there's a multi-format
card reader, along with a USB 2.0 port. The rear features four
additional USB 2.0 ports; mouse and keyboard PS/2 ports; DVI, VGA, and
HDMI ports; Ethernet; and support for 6-channel HD audio. It runs Linux,
but you can install Windows if you like.

Pretty cool for a computer that looks like it's from the 80's. Of
course, if you just want the look--and you want to throw your own stuff
inside--you can also order the "Barebones" package on the new Commodore
64 Website. The Barebones package costs $250 and gets you the case,
chassis, keyboard, and multi-format card reader with USB 2.0 port. On
the other hand, if you'd like to go all out, there's also an $895
"Ultimate" package that includes a Blu-ray drive and a 1TB hard drive.

The new Commodore 64 begins shipping at the end of this month, but you
can order yours now
--go get your BASIC
 on!  "

I myself am going to buy one just for a collector sake. The new
Commodore phone seemes to be selling like hotcakes from the research I
have done on it. There is also a switch in the back to boot the original
C-64 I think It will be a fun computer to 0wn.

What are your thoughts I will be wait a year or so because 545.00 is a
bit much for me to spend on it but anyway Like I said what are your
thoughts on it Ill post a youtube link below with the newC-64 review...

 Video Link here ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Lo9Q0RiX0

RE: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Alexandre Souza]

Who doesn't? Beyond being so clever, shhe is just beautiful! <3 <3 <3

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
Em 27/12/2015 15:41, "Fred Cisin"  escreveu:

> Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?
>>
> No (and not just because I am (mainly) a Commodore enthusiast).
>
> "new" Commodore 64??!?
>
> although, I do have to admit that Jeri Ellsowrth's new Commodore 64 (built
> into joystick) was tempting.
> I like her cup-holder,
> and her flip-card mechanical digital wristwatch.
> I lke her.
>
>
>

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Mouse]

> Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

> The new system, which also starts at $595, is a little more modern:
> it's got a Dual Core 525 Atom processor, an Nvidia Ion2 graphics
> chipset, 2GB of RAM (upgradeable to 4GB), a 160GB hard drive, and
> built-in Wi-Fi.  [...]

No, I would not buy this.  It's not a "new Commodore 64"; it's a peecee
in a C=64ish case.

I would also take a good deal of convincing to see it as on-topic for
this list, so I'm not going into it further here.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

RE: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[tony duell]

> Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No (and not just because I am (mainly) a Commodore enthusiast).

To me a computer is not defined by what it looks like. It is defined
by the electronics, the firmware, etc. This is not even close to a C64,
or in fact to any classic computer. It has no interest to me whatsoever.

-tony

RE: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Fred Cisin]

Would you buy the new Commodore 64 ? ? ?

No (and not just because I am (mainly) a Commodore enthusiast).

"new" Commodore 64??!?

although, I do have to admit that Jeri Ellsowrth's new Commodore 64 (built 
into joystick) was tempting.

I like her cup-holder,
and her flip-card mechanical digital wristwatch.
I lke her.

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[Mark J. Blair]

The manufacturer links are all 404 and the video was from 2011.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: New Commodore 64 is Finally Here--For Real! PC MAG Snip

[drlegendre .]

Yeah, Commodore USA folded years ago, far as I can tell.

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:

> The manufacturer links are all 404 and the video was from 2011.
>
> --
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
>
>