Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

> From the KDJ11-E module user's guide ... the solder-side of the CD
> fingers is left unpopulated, but for the +5 and ground pins.
> The only PMI compatible option then would be the KTJ11-B UNIBUS adapter.

I forget how the -11/84-94 backplane is wired (it's wierd - the QBUS CD slots
are bussed together in a group, they're not in pairs like an ordinary Q/CD
backplane - but I forget the fine details), but how does the PMI get from the
CPU to the KTJ11, then? I know on the same backplane, it supports PMI memory
cards with the KDJ11-B.

And speaking of the KDJ11-B, I just looked at one, and _it_ doesn't have any
lands on the C/D connectors, side 2, either! Probably because the PMI only uses
side 1 lands:

  https://gunkies.org/wiki/Private_Memory_Interconnect#Pinout

Given that the KDJ11-E can do master-slave cycles through the KTJ11-B (to
read UNIBUS device registers), it has to be able to do master-slave cycles on
the PMI. What I don't know is whether, on a 2MB KDJ11-E, it will try and send
memory reads for locations > 2MB out the PMI, or whether all reads below the
UNIBUS address space (in 22-bit address terms) are sent to the local memory
_only_.

Someone with a 2MB KDJ11-E should try it...

Noel

Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove via cctalk]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 16:10, Henk Gooijen via cctalk
 wrote:

> half populated with memory. I don’t think you can add memory
> externally.  But I might be wrong …
>
You are not wrong. From the KDJ11-E module user's guide (on BitSavers)
the solder-side of the CD fingers is left unpopulated, but for the +5
and ground pins.

The only PMI compatible option then would be the KTJ11-B UNIBUS
adapter. (You could probably use an MSV11-Q non-PMI memory to fill out
the last 2MB though.)

Best regards,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/22/22 16:15, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

On 2/22/22 16:09, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:

I always thought that you cannot add (PMI) memory to an 11/93.
There are two versions of the 11/93. One with 2 MB, the other
with 4 MB of memory _on board_.   And that’s it.
If you have an 11/93 CPU with 2 MB on board, the board is just
half populated with memory. I don’t think you can add memory
externally.  But I might be wrong …

Henk, PA8PDP



I could be wrong, too, but I always thought you could.




It just hit me.  If someone has a 2 meg PMI board they don't want
any more I would be glad to take it and find and let everyone else
know.   :-)

bill

Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/22/22 16:09, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:

I always thought that you cannot add (PMI) memory to an 11/93.
There are two versions of the 11/93. One with 2 MB, the other
with 4 MB of memory _on board_.   And that’s it.
If you have an 11/93 CPU with 2 MB on board, the board is just
half populated with memory. I don’t think you can add memory
externally.  But I might be wrong …

Henk, PA8PDP



I could be wrong, too, but I always thought you could.

bill

RE: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Henk Gooijen via cctalk]

I always thought that you cannot add (PMI) memory to an 11/93.
There are two versions of the 11/93. One with 2 MB, the other
with 4 MB of memory _on board_.   And that’s it.
If you have an 11/93 CPU with 2 MB on board, the board is just
half populated with memory. I don’t think you can add memory
externally.  But I might be wrong …

Henk, PA8PDP

Van: Noel Chiappa via cctalk
Verzonden: dinsdag 22 februari 2022 18:55
Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org
CC: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Onderwerp: Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on 
an 11/83)

> From: Bill Gunshannon

> Just wish I could get some PMI memory for that 93.

?? The KDJ11-E in the -11/93 comes with a minimum of 2MB on the CPU card.
That's enough for almost 16 maximum-sized processes (assuming they aren't
sharing program texts - almost double that, if they are). Does one really
need more than that for vintage retro use?

Besides, the on-board memory operates at full speed (same as cache memory on
the KDJ11-B); even if you added PMI memory, the KDJ11-E has no cache, so it
would be a _lot_ slower than the on-board memory.

Noel

PS: Can people _please_ trim messages they are replying to, so we don't all
have to scroll down past a bunch of irrelevant drek? Thank you.

Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/22/22 12:55, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Bill Gunshannon

 > Just wish I could get some PMI memory for that 93.

?? The KDJ11-E in the -11/93 comes with a minimum of 2MB on the CPU card.
That's enough for almost 16 maximum-sized processes (assuming they aren't
sharing program texts - almost double that, if they are). Does one really
need more than that for vintage retro use?

Besides, the on-board memory operates at full speed (same as cache memory on
the KDJ11-B); even if you added PMI memory, the KDJ11-E has no cache, so it
would be a _lot_ slower than the on-board memory.

Noel

PS: Can people _please_ trim messages they are replying to, so we don't all
have to scroll down past a bunch of irrelevant drek? Thank you.



One can never have too much memory.  Especially on these old systems
that had limited memory at best.  :-)

bill

Re: PMI memory on an -11/93 (Was: Installing an operating system on an 11/83)

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Bill Gunshannon

> Just wish I could get some PMI memory for that 93.

?? The KDJ11-E in the -11/93 comes with a minimum of 2MB on the CPU card.
That's enough for almost 16 maximum-sized processes (assuming they aren't
sharing program texts - almost double that, if they are). Does one really
need more than that for vintage retro use?

Besides, the on-board memory operates at full speed (same as cache memory on
the KDJ11-B); even if you added PMI memory, the KDJ11-E has no cache, so it
would be a _lot_ slower than the on-board memory.

Noel

PS: Can people _please_ trim messages they are replying to, so we don't all
have to scroll down past a bunch of irrelevant drek? Thank you.