Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

> On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Tothwolf  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 23 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
>> 
>> My guess is that is was a test board for Apple.  There are some weird mods 
>> to the ram timing with a variable cap and to the negative supply that looks 
>> like they were experiments to figure out the tolerances of the chips.  The 
>> board was wave soldered.  You can't fake that on an Apple-1 because of what 
>> happens to the back of the board by the regulators. [...]
> 
> If you mean the crinkle tin plate under the solder mask, that doesn't happen 
> due to wave soldering. The heavy tin plate was applied that way in a separate 
> process before the solder mask was applied to the board. It used to be common 
> to do that to all sorts of boards in the 1970s-1980s. With modern boards, is 
> much more common now to just leave exposed copper/gaps in the solder mask and 
> allow those areas to take up solder from the wave soldering (or reflow) 
> processes.

The crinkle is exaggerated by the heat from the wave soldering.  Your right 
doesn't happen in modern boards because of how the tin was applied.  

Mike Newton tried to reproduce the technique in China for his replicas.  After 
many failed/peeling attempts he came close but even when wave soldered, it 
doesn't match the 1970's effect exactly, though it does crinkle.  

The other thing with wave soldered boards is how the Vias get filled in.  They 
sorta pucker, it's hard to explain but easy to show.  You can fill the Vias by 
hand, but they don't look the same as a wave soldered board.  In experiments I 
have tried a lot of different ways to replicate it.  You can always tell the 
difference if you look under a loupe.  

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Tothwolf]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:

My guess is that is was a test board for Apple.  There are some weird 
mods to the ram timing with a variable cap and to the negative supply 
that looks like they were experiments to figure out the tolerances of 
the chips.  The board was wave soldered.  You can't fake that on an 
Apple-1 because of what happens to the back of the board by the 
regulators. [...]


If you mean the crinkle tin plate under the solder mask, that doesn't 
happen due to wave soldering. The heavy tin plate was applied that way in 
a separate process before the solder mask was applied to the board. It 
used to be common to do that to all sorts of boards in the 1970s-1980s. 
With modern boards, is much more common now to just leave exposed 
copper/gaps in the solder mask and allow those areas to take up solder 
from the wave soldering (or reflow) processes.

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

My guess is that is was a test board for Apple.  There are some weird mods to 
the ram timing with a variable cap and to the negative supply that looks like 
they were experiments to figure out the tolerances of the chips.  The board was 
wave soldered.  You can't fake that on an Apple-1 because of what happens to 
the back of the board by the regulators.  I had conversations about this board 
with Woz and Daniel Kottke who along with Steve Jobs were the only ones who 
could have had access to the roms and would have known what the board was.  The 
PCB house workers wouldn't have cared or known what to do with it.  This is 
before anyone even knew the name Apple.  

Other than a single replacement IC.  All the chips and soldered components are 
correct for something put together before the byte shop order just different 
parts than the rest of the boards.   All the pre NTI boards are very consistent 
in parts just the edge connectors were installed backwards on some.  The NTI 
varied on the smaller electrolytic caps. 

There is only one other known but lost to time Apple-1 with the same decoupling 
caps (they are different than the NTI, though similar).  That board was the 
preproduction board used for the Apple-1 printed Advertisement.   That board 
also used the same RAM chips, which Apple did not use in the end when they 
shipped the Apple-1, they used the cheaper plastic ones.  

So lots of evidence this was not something where someone grabbed a PCB for an 
unknown computer company risking their job and built their own.  

Cheers,
Corey

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

On Jul 23, 2016, at 8:55 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:

>> From: Corey Cohen
> 
>> It was not someone at the PCB manufacturer. They would not have had
>> access to the prom software.
> 
> So, do you have a theory about where this came from? (There is absolutely zero
> snark here, this is a serious question. It's quite a puzzle, and an
> interesting one.)
> 
> Maybe a collaboration between two people, one at Apple, one at the PCB house?
> 'Make two extra boards, and I'll trade you the PROMs for one of them.' Can't
> do it with just a person at the PCB house - as you point out, need the ROMs.
> But you'd think that if someone at Apple just pulled a board, that would be
> noticed (board count wrong).
> 
>Noel

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Corey Cohen

> It was not someone at the PCB manufacturer. They would not have had
> access to the prom software. 

So, do you have a theory about where this came from? (There is absolutely zero
snark here, this is a serious question. It's quite a puzzle, and an
interesting one.)

Maybe a collaboration between two people, one at Apple, one at the PCB house?
'Make two extra boards, and I'll trade you the PROMs for one of them.' Can't
do it with just a person at the PCB house - as you point out, need the ROMs.
But you'd think that if someone at Apple just pulled a board, that would be
noticed (board count wrong).

Noel

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

It was not someone at the PCB manufacturer.  They would not have had access to 
the prom software.  

This was a pre-NTI board so Apple at the time was only a handful of people, the 
only technician was Dan Kottke and he was asked about the board already.  

BTW, The only known defective board is Woz's personal NTI board which was 
repaired by cutting a short under the green coat between two address lines.  

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Jul 22, 2016, at 3:01 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
>> There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave soldered 
>> by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 100 boards 
>> each.
> 
> Then, there were blank boards before the shop making the boards populated 
> them.  A bord could have been pulled aside at that time.
> Obvious possibilities include:
> 1) It failed some form of quality control, even if just cosmetic or 
> repairable?
> 2) Sample pulled aside before population for more testing.
> 3) An Apple technician who was fed up with trying to troubleshoot with crappy 
> sockets requested/demanded/bribed the shop to populate xx of them with half 
> decent sockets.  Surely Woz,himself, was fed up with the time that he had 
> wasted due to the bad sockets!
> 4) the VERY first board got pulled aside for testing, populated with real 
> sockets, wave-soldered, and then, when it passed testing, word was given to 
> put crap sockets on the rest.
> 
>> This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
>> soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
>> sockets even though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is 
>> from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
>> expensive and reliable RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte Shop 
>> boards because of all the evidence.
> 
> None of THAT explicitly implies PREdates.
> Consider,  after completion, it was noticed that there was one more board. 
> Maybe they had run out of, or dumpstered, all of the crap sockets.
> Or Apple employee or board shop employee simply wanted something better.
> 
> 
> Although, in #3 above, if it were ME, I would have populated a testing board 
> with Augat.
> 
> 
> With any of these scenarios, LATER ON, when no longer needed in testing, or 
> Apple lab work, the board could have been given away or sold, such as at 
> Computer Swap America.  With, or without, official authorization.
> 
> 
> There was no attempt to affix a serial number to all of the boards?
> "At some point, every company realizes the need to tighten inventory."
> 
> 
> 

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Tothwolf]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:

There were no blank boards. That's the key. The sockets were wave 
soldered by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 
100 boards each.


This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
sockets even though they were from a different PCB house. This board is 
from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
expensive and reliable RN sockets. Which implies it predates the Byte 
Shop boards because of all the evidence.


TBH, I'm not sure why people get hung up on wave soldering vs hand 
soldering. My own hand soldering is practically indistinguishable from a 
properly wave soldered board and it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone 
working at Apple to be able to hand solder boards similarly, or even for a 
prior owner of the board to have retrofitted those sockets.


When I stuff boards, I use an assembly jig and form/pre-cut component 
leads before soldering. This is how I was (re)taught to solder when I 
began working with high reliability gear (cutting leads after soldering 
can cause microfractures in the joint) and I continue to use those 
techniques. I also use supplemental flux because the flux in cored solder 
is really only sufficient for bright/clean pads and leads. I consistently 
get better results with the extra flux.

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave 
soldered by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 
100 boards each.


Then, there were blank boards before the shop making the boards populated 
them.  A bord could have been pulled aside at that time.

Obvious possibilities include:
1) It failed some form of quality control, even if just cosmetic or 
repairable?

2) Sample pulled aside before population for more testing.
3) An Apple technician who was fed up with trying to troubleshoot with 
crappy sockets requested/demanded/bribed the shop to populate xx of them 
with half decent sockets.  Surely Woz,himself, was fed up with the time 
that he had wasted due to the bad sockets!
4) the VERY first board got pulled aside for testing, populated 
with real sockets, wave-soldered, and then, when it passed testing, word 
was given to put crap sockets on the rest.


This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
sockets even though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is 
from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
expensive and reliable RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte 
Shop boards because of all the evidence.


None of THAT explicitly implies PREdates.
Consider,  after completion, it was noticed that there was one more board. 
Maybe they had run out of, or dumpstered, all of the crap sockets.

Or Apple employee or board shop employee simply wanted something better.


Although, in #3 above, if it were ME, I would have populated a testing 
board with Augat.



With any of these scenarios, LATER ON, when no longer needed in testing, 
or Apple lab work, the board could have been given away or sold, such as 
at Computer Swap America.  With, or without, official authorization.



There was no attempt to affix a serial number to all of the boards?
"At some point, every company realizes the need to tighten inventory."

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Corey Cohen

> This board is from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards
> but has the more expensive and reliable RN sockets. 

Maybe someone at the 1st PCB house made an extra board for themselves, and
used better sockets (since it was for themselves)?

Noel

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave soldered by 
the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 100 boards each.  

This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave soldered 
sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI sockets even 
though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is from the 1st PCB 
house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more expensive and reliable 
RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte Shop boards because of all the 
evidence.

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

On Jul 22, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>>> "Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
>>> current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he got 
>>> it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
>> The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the two 
>> known production runs.  It was assembled at a different time.
> 
> So, somebody, perhaps an Apple employee, walked off with a board and 
> assembled it.
> The first gray/black market unauthorized Apple.
> 
> Every company has a moment when they realize that they need to tighten up 
> inventory control.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Fred Cisin]

"Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he 
got it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.


On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the 
two known production runs.  It was assembled at a different time.


So, somebody, perhaps an Apple employee, walked off with a board and 
assembled it.

The first gray/black market unauthorized Apple.

Every company has a moment when they realize that they need to tighten up 
inventory control.

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the two known 
production runs.  It was assembled at a different time. 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 10:54 PM, TeoZ <t...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> "Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
> current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he got 
> it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Evan Koblentz
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 10:26 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction
> 
>> The article doesn't appear to say, but does anyone know where this Apple
>> came from?
> 
> Go to http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/ and click "provenance". 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[TeoZ]

"Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he got 
it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.


-Original Message- 
From: Evan Koblentz

Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 10:26 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction


The article doesn't appear to say, but does anyone know where this Apple
came from?


Go to http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/ and click "provenance". 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Evan Koblentz]

The article doesn't appear to say, but does anyone know where this Apple
came from?


Go to http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/ and click "provenance".

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 7/21/2016 3:42 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
Possibly the rarest Apple 1 ever is up 
for auction.


The seller is working through 
CharityBuzz, which will display the 
computer at VCF West next month.


CB's auction site: 
http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/


MacRumors covered it: 
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/07/21/charitybuzz-auctioning-unique-celebration-apple-1/ 




The article doesn't appear to say, but 
does anyone know where this Apple came from?


- J.

Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Evan Koblentz]

Possibly the rarest Apple 1 ever is up for auction.

The seller is working through CharityBuzz, which will display the 
computer at VCF West next month.


CB's auction site: http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/

MacRumors covered it: 
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/07/21/charitybuzz-auctioning-unique-celebration-apple-1/