RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest G. Allen Sent: 07 June 2015 01:02 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO On Sat, 6 Jun 2015, Robert Jarratt wrote: Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 05:36:40 From: Robert Jarratt robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Regards Rob The .ebb is the short version of .ENABLE BAR (for change bars). It allows the .bb (.BEGIN BAR) and .eb (.END BAR) commands to take effect. Without .ebb the .bb and .eb commands don't affect the output. A .dbb (.DISABLE BAR) command will cause the .bb and .eb commands to be ignored. The .style header is a fancy one that controls which levels of headings (1-6) have section numbers before them, which are made into run-in headers or centered headers, and so forth. See the OpenVMS DIGITAL Standard Runoff Reference Manual at http://h20565.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na- c04623260 I don't know about .autotitle, .fta, or .referencepoint and could only guess. That is the manual I looked at. I should have said with regard to .style headers that I think the problem is the following syntax, it has lines like this: .style header (level=1,before=1,after=1,norunin,firstcap) Which don't appear to conform to the definition of the command in the manual, although there could be more syntax defined somewhere in the manual that allows this, but suffice to say runoff doesn't like those lines. Another example is .EBB, in the file it is: .ebb '|' And it complains about the bit after ebb, the manual doesn't seem to allow for the bar character to be specified Overall, it looks like some special version of runoff to me. I tried the /DEC_INTERNAL switch, but it made no difference. Regards Rob
Re: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
On 2015-06-06 14:36, Robert Jarratt wrote: I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Not for sure, but it might be useful to know that Bonner Lab RUNOFF (which was mentioned before) actually have .style headers and .ebb (.enable bar), so those might be figured out from there. There might be some more that Bonner Lab RUNOFF have that you might be looking for. If you are on HECnet (which I think you are, Rob), you can find the Bonner Lab RUNOFF documentation at MIM::SYS$RUNOFF:RUNOFF.DOC Johnny Regards Rob -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner Sent: 06 June 2015 00:55 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO Hi Thanks for all the ideas. Apparently there is nothing off the shelf; I have sent copies of one of the two manuals to three of us who indicated they would try something and will be happy to do the same for anyone else. AFAIK, DEC RUNOFF is only similar to other runoffs in that it uses a period . at the beginning of a line to designate a command.Most . commands span the single line but some have multi-line and/or multi file implications. E.g. Something like .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem Converts to h1 style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 Most of the conversions are obvious but some are a bit more complex, in particular the .require command which apparently assembles the chapter files into a book. .referencepoint command which is some form of anchor, perhaps for an index since so far it always seems to follow a HL command so maybe .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem .referencepoint overvw_mscp_sub Converts to h1 name=overvw_mscp_sub ID=overvw_mscp_sub style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 With the ID being called from a Table Of Contents built to include the full name and page number It looks like a multipass converter would be the way to go. Anyhow this is a bit beyond my current coding skill but if anyone else wants to try a converter I'd like to work with them Tom -Original Message- From: Tom Gardner [mailto:t.gard...@computer.org] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 10:47 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion or DEC MSCP protocol specs Hi I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is at http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basF n http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basFn s_82.pdf I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any DEC equipment. Anyone know of a converter or perhaps other already converted manuals at other revision levels (e.g. rev 1.2 at link above)? If not, anyone running VMS Pascal or OpenVMS v6.1 (or later) willing to try a conversion to LaTex? DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the markup. Any other ideas? Tom -- Johnny Billquist || I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip - B. Idol
RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Regards Rob -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner Sent: 06 June 2015 00:55 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO Hi Thanks for all the ideas. Apparently there is nothing off the shelf; I have sent copies of one of the two manuals to three of us who indicated they would try something and will be happy to do the same for anyone else. AFAIK, DEC RUNOFF is only similar to other runoffs in that it uses a period . at the beginning of a line to designate a command.Most . commands span the single line but some have multi-line and/or multi file implications. E.g. Something like .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem Converts to h1 style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 Most of the conversions are obvious but some are a bit more complex, in particular the .require command which apparently assembles the chapter files into a book. .referencepoint command which is some form of anchor, perhaps for an index since so far it always seems to follow a HL command so maybe .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem .referencepoint overvw_mscp_sub Converts to h1 name=overvw_mscp_sub ID=overvw_mscp_sub style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 With the ID being called from a Table Of Contents built to include the full name and page number It looks like a multipass converter would be the way to go. Anyhow this is a bit beyond my current coding skill but if anyone else wants to try a converter I'd like to work with them Tom -Original Message- From: Tom Gardner [mailto:t.gard...@computer.org] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 10:47 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion or DEC MSCP protocol specs Hi I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is at http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basF n http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basFn s_82.pdf I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any DEC equipment. Anyone know of a converter or perhaps other already converted manuals at other revision levels (e.g. rev 1.2 at link above)? If not, anyone running VMS Pascal or OpenVMS v6.1 (or later) willing to try a conversion to LaTex? DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the markup. Any other ideas? Tom
RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist Sent: 06 June 2015 21:53 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO On 2015-06-06 14:36, Robert Jarratt wrote: I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Not for sure, but it might be useful to know that Bonner Lab RUNOFF (which was mentioned before) actually have .style headers and .ebb (.enable bar), so those might be figured out from there. There might be some more that Bonner Lab RUNOFF have that you might be looking for. If you are on HECnet (which I think you are, Rob), you can find the Bonner Lab RUNOFF documentation at MIM::SYS$RUNOFF:RUNOFF.DOC Yes I am on HECnet, so I can take a look at that. What I don't understand though is this: are these extensions particular to Bonner Lab, or are they an implementation of Runoff commands that just aren't in any of the versions I happen to have? Regards Rob
Re: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
I've run the converter too that was in the DECUS collection and there are plenty of errors/warnings but you do get output - I've put the resulting doc files here (they are terminal formatted so you can open them in a text editor to view): http://wickensonline.co.uk/static/files/mscp/ Regards, Mark. On 06/06/15 13:36, Robert Jarratt wrote: I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Regards Rob -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner Sent: 06 June 2015 00:55 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO Hi Thanks for all the ideas. Apparently there is nothing off the shelf; I have sent copies of one of the two manuals to three of us who indicated they would try something and will be happy to do the same for anyone else. AFAIK, DEC RUNOFF is only similar to other runoffs in that it uses a period . at the beginning of a line to designate a command.Most . commands span the single line but some have multi-line and/or multi file implications. E.g. Something like .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem Converts to h1 style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 Most of the conversions are obvious but some are a bit more complex, in particular the .require command which apparently assembles the chapter files into a book. .referencepoint command which is some form of anchor, perhaps for an index since so far it always seems to follow a HL command so maybe .HL 1 Overview of MSCP Subsystem .referencepoint overvw_mscp_sub Converts to h1 name=overvw_mscp_sub ID=overvw_mscp_sub style=text-align:left; Overview of MSCP Subsystem/h1 With the ID being called from a Table Of Contents built to include the full name and page number It looks like a multipass converter would be the way to go. Anyhow this is a bit beyond my current coding skill but if anyone else wants to try a converter I'd like to work with them Tom -Original Message- From: Tom Gardner [mailto:t.gard...@computer.org] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 10:47 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion or DEC MSCP protocol specs Hi I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is at http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basF n http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A- TK_MSCP_basFn s_82.pdf I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any DEC equipment. Anyone know of a converter or perhaps other already converted manuals at other revision levels (e.g. rev 1.2 at link above)? If not, anyone running VMS Pascal or OpenVMS v6.1 (or later) willing to try a conversion to LaTex? DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the markup. Any other ideas? Tom
RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO
On Sat, 6 Jun 2015, Robert Jarratt wrote: Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 05:36:40 From: Robert Jarratt robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: DEC Runoff to any modern format conversion - MORE INFO I have had a go with some of Tom's files but I have encountered some problems. It seems the files have some commands in them that are not recognised by any of the versions of runoff that I have. I have tried on VMS 5.5-2, 7.3 and 8.4. The commands that are not recognised include (not a full list): .style header .autotitle .ebb .fta .referencepoint I have a vague recollection that DEC had some other internal version of runoff, and I wonder if these commands are for such a version. Anyone know? Regards Rob The .ebb is the short version of .ENABLE BAR (for change bars). It allows the .bb (.BEGIN BAR) and .eb (.END BAR) commands to take effect. Without .ebb the .bb and .eb commands don't affect the output. A .dbb (.DISABLE BAR) command will cause the .bb and .eb commands to be ignored. The .style header is a fancy one that controls which levels of headings (1-6) have section numbers before them, which are made into run-in headers or centered headers, and so forth. See the OpenVMS DIGITAL Standard Runoff Reference Manual at http://h20565.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623260 I don't know about .autotitle, .fta, or .referencepoint and could only guess. --Ernest
