Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Warren Toomey via cctalk]

The "old Unix" mailing list has been running since October 1995:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/

Cheers, Warren

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Andrew K. Bressen via cctalk]

Telecom digest has been running since 1981. 

I don't know if any of the Amateur Press Associations (APAs)
made the leap to digital, but an APA is fundamentally a digest 
email list done with a copier/mimeograph/hectograph and the postal
service as the transport layer, and there's at least one active 
one that's 80 years old. 

Paul Koning via cctalk  writes:
>> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.
>> 
>> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?
>
> Don't know about *the* oldest, but one that's quite old and still very active 
> is the TZ mailing list (about timezone rules and their ongoing changes).  
> This is the list that collects and distributes the data that keeps clocks 
> worldwide showing the correct local time, at least when politicians give more 
> than a few days' notice of a change.
>
> The first message on that list is from Arthur Olson, Mon, 24 Nov 86 19:58:12 
> EST.  Though retired now he still occasionally contributes.
>
>   paul

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 04/21/2017 12:28 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

> Multi-user communication systems of a somewhat different architecture
> are even older: "Notes files" on the PLATO system.


AUTODIN and predecessors, such as ComLogNet extend into the 1950s.

--Chuck

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:54 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> From: Bill Gunshannon
> 
>> Surely there were Mailing Lists prior to the existence of the Internet,
>> yes?
> 
> Absolutely. They started on the ARPANet, fairly early on.
> 
> E.g. SF-Lovers (one of the first 'non-mission related' mailing lists) started
> in September, 1979, and MsgGroup (an 'official-busines-related' one)
> considerably earlier, in June 1975. Header-People started at about the same
> time, but alas, we have lost the first two volumes of the archives, so I don't
> know exactly when.

Multi-user communication systems of a somewhat different architecture are even 
older: "Notes files" on the PLATO system.

paul

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Bill Gunshannon

> Surely there were Mailing Lists prior to the existence of the Internet,
> yes?

Absolutely. They started on the ARPANet, fairly early on.

E.g. SF-Lovers (one of the first 'non-mission related' mailing lists) started
in September, 1979, and MsgGroup (an 'official-busines-related' one)
considerably earlier, in June 1975. Header-People started at about the same
time, but alas, we have lost the first two volumes of the archives, so I don't
know exactly when.

I maintain archives of these lists on my page:

  http://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/archives.html

if anyone wants a look. The variety of header formats is kind of amusing.

> Do any Lists that started on UUCP still exist today?

Perhaps. Do you count newgroups? (Of course, UUCP considerably post-date
the ARPANet.)

Noel

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

Oldest mailing lists prolly held by snail mail type groups. That evovled
into the digital age

On Apr 21, 2017 11:40 AM, "Tony Duell via cctalk" 
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Thomas Kula via cctalk
>  wrote:
>
> > To be fair, while we may have missed the 020th and 20th anniversaries,
> > we're well ahead of the 0x20th anniversary.
> >
> > So --- what base are we using?
>
> Or what about celebrating 8192 days of the list, which I think
> is a little over 22 (base 10) years.
>
> -tony
>

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Thomas Kula via cctalk
 wrote:

> To be fair, while we may have missed the 020th and 20th anniversaries,
> we're well ahead of the 0x20th anniversary.
>
> So --- what base are we using?

Or what about celebrating 8192 days of the list, which I think
is a little over 22 (base 10) years.

-tony

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Thomas Kula via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 05:18:03PM +0100, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:34:52AM -0500, Jay West via cctalk wrote:
> >>
> >> But that being said... we should have had a party or something *grin*.
> >>
> >
> > You could argue that years are index starting from zero. Thus the
> > 20-year celebration is next year and we have ample time to prepare.
> >
> > (It's what we did when we missed an anniversery for the computer science
> > programme).
> 
> At least in the UK it is tradition to celebrate a person's 21st birthday
> (coming of age and all that). So perhaps the same applies to mailing
> lists :-)
> 
> Somewhere I have a 21st birthday card that a certain classic computer
> enthiast (now alas passed away) sent, not to me, but to my PDP11/45...


To be fair, while we may have missed the 020th and 20th anniversaries,
we're well ahead of the 0x20th anniversary. 

So --- what base are we using?

-- 
Thomas L. Kula | k...@tproa.net | http://kula.tproa.net/

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Noel Chiappa via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 10:51 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

I don't have access to my _old_ email (i.e. from the 80's) to confirm this,
and I don't think they still have copies of the very oldest mail, but the
IETF list has got to be pretty old (first meeting was early '86, but they may
not have had a mailing list for a while, yet).

Risks started in the summer of '85, so that one's older.

Noel
__

Surely there were Mailing Lists prior to the existence of the Internet, yes?
Do any Lists that started on UUCP still exist today?

bill

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk
 wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:34:52AM -0500, Jay West via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> But that being said... we should have had a party or something *grin*.
>>
>
> You could argue that years are index starting from zero. Thus the
> 20-year celebration is next year and we have ample time to prepare.
>
> (It's what we did when we missed an anniversery for the computer science
> programme).

At least in the UK it is tradition to celebrate a person's 21st birthday
(coming of age and all that). So perhaps the same applies to mailing
lists :-)

Somewhere I have a 21st birthday card that a certain classic computer
enthiast (now alas passed away) sent, not to me, but to my PDP11/45...

-tony

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Shoppa, Tim via cctalk]

I am living proof that a good Fortran Programmer can write spaghetti code in 
any language.

Fortran by default starts all of its array indices at 1 so I would argue that 
we are now in year 21. A C programmer would disagree.

Tim N3QE

Sent from my VAX-11/780

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Jay West  wrote:
> 
> Pontus wrote...
> -
> You could argue that years are index starting from zero. Thus the 20-year
> celebration is next year and we have ample time to prepare.
> -
> That's a hilariously great idea for the rationalization and justification
> department *grin*
> 
> J
> 
> 

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

Part of the question I’d have, is do you mean on the Internet the whole time?

I’m on one for photography that started out life on Fidonet, moved to the 
Internet, and while it still has the maillist, is now sadly, mainly a Facebook 
group.

I know of a couple Role Playing Game lists that are definitely older than this 
list.  The one started in the early 90’s, on the Internet, the other in the 
80’s on GEnie.  

These are simply examples I’m aware of.  It would also be interesting to know 
how many have evolved into either Facebook or Google groups.

Zane

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

I don't have access to my _old_ email (i.e. from the 80's) to confirm this,
and I don't think they still have copies of the very oldest mail, but the
IETF list has got to be pretty old (first meeting was early '86, but they may
not have had a mailing list for a while, yet).

Risks started in the summer of '85, so that one's older.

Noel

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Jay West via cctalk]

Pontus wrote...
-
You could argue that years are index starting from zero. Thus the 20-year
celebration is next year and we have ample time to prepare.
-
That's a hilariously great idea for the rationalization and justification
department *grin*

J

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:34:52AM -0500, Jay West via cctalk wrote:
> 
> But that being said... we should have had a party or something *grin*.
> 

You could argue that years are index starting from zero. Thus the 
20-year celebration is next year and we have ample time to prepare.

(It's what we did when we missed an anniversery for the computer science 
programme).

/P

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017, Jay West via cctalk wrote:


And yes, many are here just for the relationships and comradery that has 
developed over decades of the lists existence.

But that being said... we should have had a party or something *grin*.


   We could have the party at VCF MW in September.  :-)


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Jay West via cctalk]

Zane wrote...
-
I think it's safe to say that a list dedicated to computer history, forgot its 
own history.
-

I beg to disagree with the premise. Yes, there are quite a few people here that 
focus on the history and historical aspects of the hobby. But that doesn't mean 
the list is "dedicated to computer history". It's a significant component, but 
many are here just for the love of the old machines, the knowledge that is 
present, electronics, software design, etc.

And yes, many are here just for the relationships and comradery that has 
developed over decades of the lists existence.

But that being said... we should have had a party or something *grin*.

J

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.
> 
> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

Don't know about *the* oldest, but one that's quite old and still very active 
is the TZ mailing list (about timezone rules and their ongoing changes).  This 
is the list that collects and distributes the data that keeps clocks worldwide 
showing the correct local time, at least when politicians give more than a few 
days' notice of a change.

The first message on that list is from Arthur Olson, Mon, 24 Nov 86 19:58:12 
EST.  Though retired now he still occasionally contributes.

paul

RE: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Torfinn Ingolfsen via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 7:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.
>
> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

Still running, or still getting on-topic posts to it?


Wha about the VMS Mailing List?  

bill

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 01:27:09PM +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.
> >
> > It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?
> 
> Still running, or still getting on-topic posts to it?

"Active"

I suppose there are more than one consumed by spam.

/P

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Torfinn Ingolfsen via cctalk]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk
 wrote:
> Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.
>
> It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

Still running, or still getting on-topic posts to it?
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

Congratulations to us all, even if a little late.

It makes me wonder, what is the oldest still running mailinglist?

/P

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 09:09:01PM +, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote:
> A FAQ in my old emails show the founding of the Classiccmp mailing list as 
> being 20 years and 1 month ago. March 13 1997 was when Bill Whitson first set 
> up the classiccmp list at the University of Washington.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
> 
> Sent from my VAX-11/780

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

wow what?

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:29 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > On Apr 20, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > A FAQ in my old emails show the founding of the Classiccmp mailing list
> as being 20 years and 1 month ago. March 13 1997 was when Bill Whitson
> first set up the classiccmp list at the University of Washington.
> >
> > Tim N3QE
> >
> >
> > Sent from my VAX-11/780
>
>
> That means I’ve been on this list for just short of 20 years.  I think its
> safe to say that a list dedicated to computer history, forgot its own
> history.
>
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>

Re: Did we miss the 20th anniversary of classiccmp?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> A FAQ in my old emails show the founding of the Classiccmp mailing list as 
> being 20 years and 1 month ago. March 13 1997 was when Bill Whitson first set 
> up the classiccmp list at the University of Washington.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
> 
> Sent from my VAX-11/780


That means I’ve been on this list for just short of 20 years.  I think its safe 
to say that a list dedicated to computer history, forgot its own history.


Zane