RE: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jon Elson
> Sent: 02 November 2016 16:24
> To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
> Controller
> 
> On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> > Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
> > today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's
> > another story. Recently I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A
> > Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller .
> > A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
> >
> > The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
> >
> > Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
> > anything.
> >
> > So .. anyone have the manual ?
> >
> > (*) -
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_C
> ontr
> > ol
> >
> I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate controller at work. 
>  I
> also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11 crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus
> adapter and the 3953.
> These have schematics in them.
> 
> I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.
> 
> Jon

I just wish I could remember any of this, and I have lost contact with my 
colleagues who might have remembered. 
When I worked at NERC they were used for most everything, generally in 
conjunction with a PDP-11 or LSI-11.
We had Media Conversion Systems that took various tapes from Scientific Data 
Recorders and converted them to standard paper tape or 9-track mag tape.
"HASP" work stations with Card Readers, Line Printers & Tape drives.
Terminal Concentrators with multiple HP26xx terminals that could connect to our 
Honeywell or VAX systems.
Some were used as Front End Processors on the Honeywell.
By the time I started most were lsi11-03 or 23 modules that fitted into the end 
slot on the CAMAC crate. 
They were generally loaded from Paper Tape or sometimes PROM boards which I 
think emulated Paper Tape or something stupid
There is a manual for one of the RJE stations here:-

http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/392339/

and this paper contains info on how to convert some data using a PDP11-05 based 
media conversion system

http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/392307/1/1188056-1001.pdf

I hope these are interesting

Dave Wade



 

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Pete Lancashire]

For me starting in my early 20's at a Test & Measurement company, (btw at
one time has to option to buy DEC) and being in the division that stuck a
PDP11/40 (eventually a 11/84) in a rack along a bunch of T I've been from
time to time collecting, specially from what I consider the boom years, the
mid 60's to the 70's. Just like the place I worked and the half dozen
NIM/Camac companies the lives of those who made other a success are the
unsung hero's.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 11/02/2016 12:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
>> In a past life I did quite a few Test & Measurement setups, started with
>> dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
>> Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.
>>
>> In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
>> really play with any of the instruments.
>>
>> For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
>> connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
>> shows up that's for another rainy season.
>>
>> Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
>> Oregon (due to weight and size) ?
>>
>> On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for
>> NIM
>> & CAMAC.
>>
>>
>> This gear DOES turn up frequently on eBay for reasonable prices.  We
> supply our lab's needs for replacement bins and crates that way.  I used to
> build CAMAC modules for nuclear research as a business.  I made my own
> crate and crate controller for module testing.  It was just the backplane,
> no card slots, which was fine to have access to probe the boards.
>
> Jon
>
>

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Jon Elson]

On 11/02/2016 12:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

In a past life I did quite a few Test & Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.

In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.

For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.

Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?

On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for NIM
& CAMAC.


This gear DOES turn up frequently on eBay for reasonable 
prices.  We supply our lab's needs for replacement bins and 
crates that way.  I used to build CAMAC modules for nuclear 
research as a business.  I made my own crate and crate 
controller for module testing.  It was just the backplane, 
no card slots, which was fine to have access to probe the 
boards.


Jon

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Jon Elson]

On 11/02/2016 11:52 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

I'd like to add them to bitsavers if you can scan them.

I just threw out most of the CAMAC stuff that I had. Weird Stuff should have 
two crates that I dumped off yesterday.
Well, the drawings are big sheets (at least C size) diazo 
prints in really awful condition.  You've probably seen 
these, they take the master engineering drawings, diazo 
duplicate, eradicate old circuits and draw in new, and 
repeat for 5+ generations, and they get almost unreadable.  
So, I'm not sure what results I'd get, but I'd have to do it 
in little panels and then assemble.  It might be better to 
send it to somebody with better equipment.


We still use a bit of CAMAC only because we have the 
infrastructure to do it.


Jon

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Pete Lancashire]

In a past life I did quite a few Test & Measurement setups, started with
dedicated I/O, then added GPIB, and later VXI
Always enjoyed the challenge of automating stimulus and measurement.

In the mid 90s I helped add GPIB to a NIM & CAMAC setup. But never got to
really play with any of the instruments.

For 'fun' I want to setup and NIM Bin and CAMAC Crate and since my days of
connecting to a computer started with a PDP-11. But unless a Unibus box
shows up that's for another rainy season.

Anyone with a NIM Bin or CAMAC Create they don't want and is near Portland
Oregon (due to weight and size) ?

On another vector, it is sad to see that there is not a 'bitsavers' for NIM
& CAMAC.

-pete



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
>> Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
>> today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
>> story. Recently
>> I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
>> Controller .
>> A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
>>
>> The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
>>
>> Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
>> anything.
>>
>> So .. anyone have the manual ?
>>
>> (*) -
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
>>
>> I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate controller at
> work.  I also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11 crate controller and 2912
> LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953.  These have schematics in them.
>
> I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.
>
> Jon
>
>

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Al Kossow]

I'd like to add them to bitsavers if you can scan them.

I just threw out most of the CAMAC stuff that I had. Weird Stuff should have 
two crates that I dumped off yesterday.

I was going to use it for reading tapes, but it doesn't make sense given the 
higher performace inexpensive A/Ds you
can get today.

I did try to find docs when I was looking for this stuff 10 years ago, so there 
is some stuff under pdf/kinetics and others.

On 11/2/16 8:24 AM, Jon Elson wrote:

> I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate controller at work. 
>  I also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11
> crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953.  These have 
> schematics in them.
> 

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Jon Elson]

On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.

The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,

Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.

So .. anyone have the manual ?

(*) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control

I have a 3922 crate controller and a 3953 auxiliary crate 
controller at work.  I also have manuals for the 3911 PDP-11 
crate controller and 2912 LSI-11 bus adapter and the 3953.  
These have schematics in them.


I THINK the 3912 may be an LSI-11 (QBus) controller, not Unibus.

Jon

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Philipp Hachtmann]

On 10/31/2016 07:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story. Recently

Zero value? But they look nice.


So .. anyone have the manual ?

I *might* have some CAMAC related stuff - what exactly are you looking for?


Philipp

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Jon Elson]

On 10/31/2016 01:04 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
story.
Well, actually, there are still a fair amount of CAMAC 
modules used in various research labs.



  Recently
I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
Controller .
A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.

The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,

Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
anything.

So .. anyone have the manual ?


We had a 2911 and a 3911 (I think) at Washington University 
in St. Louis.  in fact, I'm pretty sure it is STILL on a 
shelf in my office.  We haven't used it in about 20 years.  
I think the 2911 was a set of boards to connect an ISA-bus 
PC to a CAMAC crate controller.  Anyway, there are two 
parts, one plugs into the CAMAC crate master slots (24 and 
25) and the other plugs into the bus of choice (Unibus, 
Q-bus or ISA, for instance).


Actually, CAMAC is well documented, as it is an 
international standard.  Slot 25 has "N" wires that select a 
slot
(1 - 24) to be accessed.  Each slot has an A address and a F 
(function) address that can be read or written.
Slots 1-24 are wired with a 24-bit read bus and a 24-bit 
write bus. There is also a LAM (look at me) bus that works 
like an interrupt scheme.  The 3912 plugs into slots 24 and 
25.  It was used very widely in nuclear research, but also 
in large industrial process control systems.


I'll check at work tomorrow, I think we might still have the 
manuals for some of these modules.


Jon

Re: Looking for info on a CAMAC module - Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate Controller

[Brian Marstella]

Pete,

I think I might have a few Kinetic CAMAC brochures and user manuals. I'll
have to dig around but if you don't have another source, maybe I can scan
them. We had a 2 large crates in our testing lab that I kick myself for not
taking. I had no use for them but it's still some interesting hardware. We
had a couple of old IBM XTs interfaced to them.

Regards, Brian.

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Over the years I've played around with a few old CAMAC (*) modules, by
> today's standard they pretty much have zero value, anyway that's another
> story. Recently
> I've been offered a CAMAC to Unibus board. A Kinetic 3912 Unibus Crate
> Controller .
> A Crate in CAMAC speak is just a chassis with a backplane.
>
> The problem with CAMAC is there is almost no information out there,
>
> Since I don't YET have a Unibus system, it more of a curiosity then
> anything.
>
> So .. anyone have the manual ?
>
> (*) -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Automated_Measurement_and_Control
>