Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Mouse]

> Firstly, there are many types of unwanted e-mail, and using the term
> SPAM to cover them all is a dis-service.

Using the term SPAM to cover any of them is a disservice - to Hormel,
who has been relatively gracious about the use of "spam" for something
other than their product.

Of course, posting on a list like this is not something trademark law
generally applies to, so it us unlikely to lead to immediate legal
repurcussions.  But it is good to get into appropriate habits, and it
is good to try to cooperate with companies who are trying to cooperate
with us.

> The e-mail in question was not one of those, it was almost certainly
> sent by a criminal attempting to steal and re-sell some ones
> credentials.

It can still be spam.  It was unsolicited and it was email; the only
leg of the UBE tripod that's questionable is the "bulk" one, and I have
little doubt there.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[drlegendre .]

> Spam should reduce when word gets around that spammers are being
> tortured to death.

I doubt it, some one will invent a religion that says tortured spammers get
to heaven first..

Yeah, wow.. not to put too fine a point on it, HA!



On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
> Cisin
> > Sent: 11 August 2016 16:38
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]
> >
> > On Thu, 11 Aug 2016, geneb wrote:
> > > I think it would be more effective to stuff the spammer into a Brazen
> > > Bull and then force his children/family members to light the fire.
> > > Televise it across all media outlets.  Spam should slow to a tiny,
> > > tiny, trickle after one or two of these little events...
> >
>
> Firstly, there are many types of unwanted e-mail, and using the term SPAM
> to
> cover them all is a dis-service.
> A lot of reported SPAM simply comes from lists folks have signed up to, and
> who can't be bothered to un-sign themselves off the list.
>
> The e-mail in question was not one of those, it was almost certainly sent
> by
> a criminal attempting to steal and re-sell some ones credentials.
>
> I am fairly certain the e-mail originated from 102.47.65.89. Sticking that
> into an Internet Search engine reports...
>
> IP General Information
>
> IP Address: 103.47.65.89
> Hostname: 103.47.65.89
> ISP: Zapbytes Technologies Pvt.
>
> Geolocation Information
>
> Continent: Asia (AS)
> Country: India (IN) IN
> City: Delhi
> Latitude: 28.6667 (28°40'0.12" N), Longitude: 77.2167 (77°13'0.12" N)
>
>
> > Spam should reduce when word gets around that spammers are being
> > tortured to death.
>
> I doubt it, some one will invent a religion that says tortured spammers get
> to heaven first..
>
> >
> > Decriminalize spammercide.
> >
> >
> > Spread the word - "spammers are already being murdered."
> >
> >
> Dave
> G4UGM
>
>
>

RE: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Cisin
> Sent: 11 August 2016 16:38
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]
> 
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016, geneb wrote:
> > I think it would be more effective to stuff the spammer into a Brazen
> > Bull and then force his children/family members to light the fire.
> > Televise it across all media outlets.  Spam should slow to a tiny,
> > tiny, trickle after one or two of these little events...
> 

Firstly, there are many types of unwanted e-mail, and using the term SPAM to
cover them all is a dis-service. 
A lot of reported SPAM simply comes from lists folks have signed up to, and
who can't be bothered to un-sign themselves off the list.

The e-mail in question was not one of those, it was almost certainly sent by
a criminal attempting to steal and re-sell some ones credentials.

I am fairly certain the e-mail originated from 102.47.65.89. Sticking that
into an Internet Search engine reports...

IP General Information

IP Address: 103.47.65.89
Hostname: 103.47.65.89
ISP: Zapbytes Technologies Pvt.

Geolocation Information

Continent: Asia (AS)
Country: India (IN) IN
City: Delhi
Latitude: 28.6667 (28°40'0.12" N), Longitude: 77.2167 (77°13'0.12" N)


> Spam should reduce when word gets around that spammers are being
> tortured to death.

I doubt it, some one will invent a religion that says tortured spammers get
to heaven first..

> 
> Decriminalize spammercide.
> 
> 
> Spread the word - "spammers are already being murdered."
> 
> 
Dave
G4UGM

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[william degnan]

I remember the first time I encountered spam1995 or so using my old
CompuServe account.  One day I was like "what is all this crap?" Now that
was some serious spam going on then.  Today's is nothing like that if you
ask me.  I have a nice filter system on my private server.  Botta bing.
B

-- 
Bill Degnan

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Ian S. King]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 9:48 AM, ANDY HOLT  wrote:

>
> >> Spam will not stop until the last spammer is dead.
> >
> > Actually, it's really simple to stop spam.  Simple, not easy.
> >
> > You just need to delegate responsibility along with authority when
> > handing out netblocks, registering domain names, and the like.
>
> When there were only tens of thousands of mail nodes (few of which had
> more than a
> few thousand accounts it was practical to put the responsibility on
> postmasters.
> With tens of millions (often with millions of customers) that is no longer
> so.
>

"Every time you send a spam message, you kill a kitten.  Think of the
kittens.  Unless you're a dog person - then think of the puppies."

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[ANDY HOLT]

>> Spam will not stop until the last spammer is dead.
>
> Actually, it's really simple to stop spam.  Simple, not easy.
>
> You just need to delegate responsibility along with authority when
> handing out netblocks, registering domain names, and the like.

When there were only tens of thousands of mail nodes (few of which had more 
than a
few thousand accounts it was practical to put the responsibility on 
postmasters. 
With tens of millions (often with millions of customers) that is no longer so.

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Fred Cisin]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016, geneb wrote:
I think it would be more effective to stuff the spammer into a Brazen Bull 
and then force his children/family members to light the fire.  Televise it 
across all media outlets.  Spam should slow to a tiny, tiny, trickle after 
one or two of these little events...


Spam should reduce when word gets around that spammers are being tortured 
to death.


Decriminalize spammercide.


Spread the word - "spammers are already being murdered."

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[geneb]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016, Mouse wrote:


Spam will not stop until the last spammer is dead.


Actually, it's really simple to stop spam.  Simple, not easy.

You just need to delegate responsibility along with authority when
handing out netblocks, registering domain names, and the like.

I think it would be more effective to stuff the spammer into a Brazen Bull 
and then force his children/family members to light the fire.  Televise it 
across all media outlets.  Spam should slow to a tiny, tiny, trickle after 
one or two of these little events...



g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Todd Goodman]

* Mouse  [160810 21:59]:
[..SNIP..]
> I suppose that's what happens when you put the Department of Commerce
> in charge of something.  As long as it doesn't collapse far enough to
> stop concentrating money in the hands of large corporations, there's
> nothing wrong with it.
> 
> /~\ The ASCII   Mouse
> \ / Ribbon Campaign
>  X  Against HTML  mo...@rodents-montreal.org
> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

That's what happens when you put a government in charge of anything.

My $.02,

Todd

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Mouse]

>> Actually, it's really simple to stop spam.  Simple, not easy.

>> You just need to delegate responsibility along with authority when
>> handing out netblocks, registering domain names, and the like.

> I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  The trouble with email is that th$

That's a technical issue.  The probjlem is not technical.

In a civilized net, I could write to the postmaster at the host that
handed me the spam, who would then either smack down their local user
or chase the pointer to the next hop, as applicable.  Postmasters that
refused to act against abusers would find themselves without
connectivity, because providers would enforce terms-of-service against
them.  (Providers that refused to do so would find themselves without
address space and/or peering.  This chases up the governance pyramid,
hence the remark about needing will-to-enforce at the top.)

Time was - say, back when Jon Postel, rather than the US Department of
Commerce, was the top of the pyramid - back about when the MicroVAX-II
was new, to put it in terms people here can relate to :-) - I could
have lost my access for forging email.  Today?  Today I'd be surprised
if anyone even noticed, much less cared.  And nobody caring, and being
permitted to not care all the way up the governance chain, is exactly
the problem I'm talking about.

I suppose that's what happens when you put the Department of Commerce
in charge of something.  As long as it doesn't collapse far enough to
stop concentrating money in the hands of large corporations, there's
nothing wrong with it.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Paul Koning]

> On Aug 10, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Mouse  wrote:
> 
>> Spam will not stop until the last spammer is dead.
> 
> Actually, it's really simple to stop spam.  Simple, not easy.
> 
> You just need to delegate responsibility along with authority when
> handing out netblocks, registering domain names, and the like.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  The trouble with email is that the 
addresses you see are just text strings in a protocol that has no security or 
authentication.  The route data in the full headers tend to tell a more 
accurate story, but the "from" string is just a string that carries no weight 
whatsoever.  It's undoubtedly possible to design protocols that don't have this 
defect, but SMTP is not such a protocol.  (Nor is SMTP the only one, witnessing 
the famous "kremvax" hoax.)

paul