Fwd: curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.]
Forwarded Message Subject: curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.] Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 02:00:07 + From: Rich Alderson Reply-To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' From: jim stephens Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:21 PM the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system that ran on mainframes at the time. You're going to have to be more specific than that. At what time? On what mainframe(s)? Are you saying that by the time Ultimate, whatever that is when it's at home, was running, no other non-IBM OSes were running on IBM hardware, all others being dead? Or that Ultimate was earlier than, say, MTS on IBM hardware? And are you claiming that no other manufacturers' systems are mainframes? What are you saying? Rich At the time the only OS's were VM and MVS on IBM hardware as far as IBM was concerned for maintenance purposes. If you had MTS or anything else they would run diagnostics for you at most on a contract, then hit the door. If Ultimate had a problem with running, there was a support path for that OS and it was not an IBM OS. The hardware calls related to problems with the OS not working would not be billed T&M by IBM like they would be for any other service calls. If an IBM CE came on site and saw Ultimate it would come up on his little radio gizmo and not be totally unsupported. Ultimate's OS from about 81 thru maybe 88 when Ultimate collapsed and support was taken over by the Florida guys who bought the software rights eventually was the only OS like that. You could boot and run anything you wanted to, but if you had a problem and an IBM service contract, you would get billed T&M for the call unless their diagnostics showed something. With Ultimate, they would run whatever we directed them to if it got to that, and the support call would be in scope of the contract. Thanks Jim
curious claim questioned [was RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.]
From: jim stephens Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:21 PM > the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system > that ran on mainframes at the time. You're going to have to be more specific than that. At what time? On what mainframe(s)? Are you saying that by the time Ultimate, whatever that is when it's at home, was running, no other non-IBM OSes were running on IBM hardware, all others being dead? Or that Ultimate was earlier than, say, MTS on IBM hardware? And are you claiming that no other manufacturers' systems are mainframes? What are you saying? Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computers: Museum + Labs 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:ri...@livingcomputers.org http://www.LivingComputers.org/
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On 11/22/2016 2:56 PM, Paul Berger wrote: The channel adapter on the Series/1 had a rather large flaw, if you did not disable the interface before shutting down the Series/1 it would upset the channel it was attached to causing a flurry of channel checks that could bring the host system to its knees. When I worked in the IBM Toronto Lab we had two channel attached Series/1 machines with 72MD diskette units that we used to create diskettes from images sent to us and also to send diskette images. These Series/1s pretended to be a 3270 control unit so that the MVS host system knew how to talk to them. the Ultimate system was the only Non IBM written supervisor / system that ran on mainframes at the time. The supervisor or in Pick terms, Monitor handled such things with code specific to Pick. I don't know that it would have caused the system to stop, but I'd doubt it, as we had a complete setup to test it with, and running with parts turned off after system boot would have been tested. All of the channels, 7171, Series 1, and Hyfas channels were all run in a different mode than most anywhere in IBM, though I understand the mode was supported w/o firmware mods on all systems. I'd have loved to have heard the L2 and L3 calls if anyone called with complaints though. Our support contract with IBM essentially made us L3 for everything we had, but we had access to all PMR's as well as PMR's filed against systems with our software. I say to all PMR's as the access has vastly narrowed, but we had access for supporting our own VM/SP, so we could search for problems and get APARs. All of our systems were hooked up via a channel switch to three systems, a 4381, 9121, and a 9370. All had some dedicated DASD, but unique items such as a couple of tape drives, the 7171, and the Series one were all on the switch to be moved to each system to see what happened. We also conned IBM into a CHIM as well as set of hardware and software to enable Microchannel machines to be either a channel, or to run channel attached hardware. Also, note that Mike Ross has a CHIM, which I am not sure he knows is a CHIM. http://www.corestore.org/360tester-1.jpg At least the box we had matched this. We were hoping that IBM would forget it when we started to get where our facility would shut down, as we were the only account left in Orange County with 370 or 360 channels, but the found it. Also had a custom instruction trace firmware for the 4381 for being able to trace some performances with deposits into lower memory. thanks Jim
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On 2016-11-22 3:31 PM, jim stephens wrote: On 11/22/2016 10:09 AM, william degnan wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr >wrote: > >The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There >were > >originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later... Ultimate's Pick implementation for the IBM mainframe had a channel attached Series One with serial channels available for communications to IBM 3151 ASCII terminals. if you ran the usual pile that IBM had, there was a program that ran in the Series one that put up a screen similar to a 3270 on each 3151 terminal, and acted much like a 3270 terminal, but with Ascii terminals and using cursor control and the like to do the screens. A standalone controller, the 7171 also did that as well. On the 9121 mainframes there was a 68000 equipped board and subsystem called the Hyfas that did the same directly from boards in the 9121 chassis. IBM disclosed Ultimate on a method to bypass the 3270 software and do direct I/O for byte I/O to use the terminals on all three of these subsystems like direct attached Ascii terminals. Also there was a Pick Series one implementation by Pick Blue in Seattle. I also know that some number of Sears Roebuck stores had Series One systems for their POS control in each store up to the end of life of pretty much a real Sears chain, and the product. There was a large flood of systems at the time that the IBM POS systems were converted to some other backend system (I didn't track what the replacement configuration was). I've not set foot in a Sears store in 30 years due to them screwing me in 1976, so don't know much about any of their gear since, but I am pretty sure on the Series One from some people who acquired systems at that time, in the early 90s. I understand that the Sears stores in the US replaced their Series/1 machines with a 9371, Sears Canada replaced theirs with a small AIX system as did the late Eatons Dept store. State Farm Insurance agents used to have Series/1 machines in their offices, they too replaced them with 9271s. The machines in the Sears stores stores did not have the operator panel, nor did they have a diskette drive so if you wanted to run diagnostics on them you had to haul these items packaged as a CE tool to the site with you. The biggest problem with servicing Series/1 was they where so reliable that unless you where maintaining a lot of them you never got good at them. The channel adapter on the Series/1 had a rather large flaw, if you did not disable the interface before shutting down the Series/1 it would upset the channel it was attached to causing a flurry of channel checks that could bring the host system to its knees. When I worked in the IBM Toronto Lab we had two channel attached Series/1 machines with 72MD diskette units that we used to create diskettes from images sent to us and also to send diskette images. These Series/1s pretended to be a 3270 control unit so that the MVS host system knew how to talk to them. Paul.
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On 11/22/2016 10:09 AM, william degnan wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr >wrote: > >The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There >were > >originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later... Ultimate's Pick implementation for the IBM mainframe had a channel attached Series One with serial channels available for communications to IBM 3151 ASCII terminals. if you ran the usual pile that IBM had, there was a program that ran in the Series one that put up a screen similar to a 3270 on each 3151 terminal, and acted much like a 3270 terminal, but with Ascii terminals and using cursor control and the like to do the screens. A standalone controller, the 7171 also did that as well. On the 9121 mainframes there was a 68000 equipped board and subsystem called the Hyfas that did the same directly from boards in the 9121 chassis. IBM disclosed Ultimate on a method to bypass the 3270 software and do direct I/O for byte I/O to use the terminals on all three of these subsystems like direct attached Ascii terminals. Also there was a Pick Series one implementation by Pick Blue in Seattle. I also know that some number of Sears Roebuck stores had Series One systems for their POS control in each store up to the end of life of pretty much a real Sears chain, and the product. There was a large flood of systems at the time that the IBM POS systems were converted to some other backend system (I didn't track what the replacement configuration was). I've not set foot in a Sears store in 30 years due to them screwing me in 1976, so don't know much about any of their gear since, but I am pretty sure on the Series One from some people who acquired systems at that time, in the early 90s.
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr > wrote: > > The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There > were > > originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later... > > ISTR having to mod our 3780 COMBOARD code to talk to a Series/1 in > about 1992 or so because someone in WI bought our VAXBI COMBOARD to > send EDI purchase reqs to a vendor network run by IBM and the device > on the other end of our customer's modem was a Series/1 that didn't > quite exactly implement 3780 like all the IBM products before it. > > -ethan > Whomever gets this, I donated my Series/1 to the VCFed Museum in Wall NJ, and if you want to check it out for comparison purposes, I would be happy to help set up an appointment to inspect it. Also, I have some notes about the system I had, which is very similar to the Series/1 on craigslist. I was able to IPL it, but did not do much else. http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=12 http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ibm/Series1/ http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=206 Bill
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: > The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There were > originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later... ISTR having to mod our 3780 COMBOARD code to talk to a Series/1 in about 1992 or so because someone in WI bought our VAXBI COMBOARD to send EDI purchase reqs to a vendor network run by IBM and the device on the other end of our customer's modem was a Series/1 that didn't quite exactly implement 3780 like all the IBM products before it. -ethan
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There were originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later. I always knew them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named because they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was headquartered in Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done in Boca Raton, FL). We'd get it for the VCFed museum, but we already have one and time/bandwidth are spread thin right now.
RE: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
When I worked on the UK Universities X.25 networking software we used Series/1s for interfacing the x.25 to VM/370 as IBM had X.25 and Channel hardware for the s/1. Dave > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy > Sotomayor Jr > Sent: 22 November 2016 07:31 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US. > > The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There were > originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later. I always knew > them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named > because they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was > headquartered in Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done > in Boca Raton, FL). > > TTFN - Guy > > > On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > > > what is it? looks too new for me, do not remember this one > > Ed# > > > > > > In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > > drlegen...@gmail.com writes: > > > > The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-) > > > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca > > > > wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder > > wrote: > >> > >>> Someone go rescue this: > >>> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html > >>> > >>> Or palletize it and send it to me. > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Ian Finder > >>> (206) 395-MIPS > >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Ian Finder > >>> (206) 395-MIPS > >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com > >>> > >> I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Steve > >> > >
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
Ah! Ok! heard of it but never seen an installation. Great find! I am a little foggy on it but I somehow remember it being able to control external devices for process use vs. the usual IBM stuff that was just 'data processing' Ed# In a message dated 11/22/2016 12:31:26 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, g...@shiresoft.com writes: The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There were originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later. I always knew them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named because they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was headquartered in Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done in Boca Raton, FL). TTFN - Guy > On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > what is it? looks too new for me, do not remember this one > Ed# > > > In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > drlegen...@gmail.com writes: > > The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-) > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca > wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder > wrote: >> >>> Someone go rescue this: >>> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html >>> >>> Or palletize it and send it to me. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Finder >>> (206) 395-MIPS >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Finder >>> (206) 395-MIPS >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com >>> >> I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. >> >> Regards, >> Steve >> >
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
The IBM Series/1 was introduced in 1976 and withdrawn in 1988. There were originally 2 models and another 2 models were added later. I always knew them by their code names — different varieties of peaches…so named because they were developed by IBM’s GSD division which was headquartered in Atlanta, GA (even though all of the development was done in Boca Raton, FL). TTFN - Guy > On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > what is it? looks too new for me, do not remember this one > Ed# > > > In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > drlegen...@gmail.com writes: > > The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-) > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca > wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder > wrote: >> >>> Someone go rescue this: >>> http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html >>> >>> Or palletize it and send it to me. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Finder >>> (206) 395-MIPS >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Finder >>> (206) 395-MIPS >>> ian.fin...@gmail.com >>> >> I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. >> >> Regards, >> Steve >> >
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
what is it? looks too new for me, do not remember this one Ed# In a message dated 11/21/2016 9:30:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, drlegen...@gmail.com writes: The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-) On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder wrote: > > > Someone go rescue this: > > http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html > > > > Or palletize it and send it to me. > > > > > > -- > >Ian Finder > >(206) 395-MIPS > >ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ian Finder > >(206) 395-MIPS > > ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. > > Regards, > Steve >
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
The vintage computing world is in your debt, Steven.. ;-) On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Steven Maresca wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder wrote: > > > Someone go rescue this: > > http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html > > > > Or palletize it and send it to me. > > > > > > -- > >Ian Finder > >(206) 395-MIPS > >ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > >Ian Finder > >(206) 395-MIPS > >ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. > > Regards, > Steve >
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Ian Finder wrote: > Someone go rescue this: > http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html > > Or palletize it and send it to me. > > > -- >Ian Finder >(206) 395-MIPS >ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > > > > -- >Ian Finder >(206) 395-MIPS >ian.fin...@gmail.com > I'm in CT close enough to make a rescue..I've reached out to the poster. Regards, Steve
Re: Free IBM system/1(?) in eastern US.
Yes, someone please rescue this. They’re nice minis. I would but I’m still in the process of getting a fully configured IBM 4331 (mainframe) moved here so I don’t have the time/space to deal with it at the moment. TTFN - Guy > On Nov 21, 2016, at 7:50 PM, Ian Finder wrote: > > Someone go rescue this: > http://nwct.craigslist.org/zip/5886266424.html > > Or palletize it and send it to me. > > > -- > Ian Finder > (206) 395-MIPS > ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Ian Finder > (206) 395-MIPS > ian.fin...@gmail.com