Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

Perhaps this discussion would be a good candidate for private email?


> On May 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/14/19 12:16 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> > No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi working on Win98. That's 
> > not the same thing.
> 
> The letter of what the OP wanted was WiFi. I took the spirit of what 
> the OP wanted was network.
> > You jumped to a conclusion.
> 
> No I did not.
> 
> I responded to comment where someone else said "you may want to consider 
> … using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network bridge".
> 
> I stated "IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly 
> called 'gaming adapters'. It functions as the wireless client to 
> connect the wired Ethernet client." The key points being:
>  - "IMHO" meaning in my humble opinion - "functioning as" meaning doing the 
> same / similar thing as - "what I /think/" as in what I believe but could be 
> wrong about - "commonly called" as in not always - "it functions as a 
> wireless client to connect the wired Ethernet 
> client." as in it's a way to connect a wired only device to a wireless 
> network.
> > Then, you declared, rudely, the OP that they should buy something,
> 
> How does "OPZ would be functioning as" translate to the OP should buy 
> something?
> > by repeatedly, derisively, using a name that might be meaningful to 
> > millennial gamers,
> 
> Many of the people in my community are decidedly outside of the 
> millennial gamers group and know what a gaming adapter is.
> 
> I have no idea what age range people on this mailing list are—I honestly 
> don't care—but I strongly suspect that more people now know what a 
> gaming adapter is than did so before the start of this thread.
> > but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level techies.
> 
> Please don't conflate age with level of techies.
> 
> I've worked with all four combinations of the binary young / old vs 
> techie / non-techie.
> > Also, your idea meant going out and spending money on something new,
> 
> No, it did not.
> > when this is a community of people who you could reasonably expect to 
> > favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with 
> > existing tech that they already own.
> 
> That's one of the reasons that I enjoy this community. I re-use things 
> for different purposes all the time. I enjoy seeing how others solve 
> their problems.
> > You told someone who is trying to do something on a 20-25 year old OS 
> > in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should be 
> > buying a peripheral for a games console.
> 
> No I did not.
> > [1] You did not "suggest". You hectored, rudely.
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> I was not intend to be rude. I apologize to anyone that thought I was rude.
> > [2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated some buzzword phrase 
> > nobody else here knows.
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> My original comment stated "It functions as the wireless client to 
> connect the wired Ethernet client."
> > [3] You didn't explain that, either.
> 
> See above.
> > You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of us as competent adults 
> > instead of poking fun?
> 
> I continue to believe that I have addressed everyone in this thread as 
> competent adults.
> 
> I did not intentionally try to poke fun at anyone.
> 
> Believe me, when I say that I'm much more of an ass hole if I want to be 
> and try to poke at someone.
> > Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked better.
> > 
> > WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.
> 
> What does American have to do with this?
> 
> Are you implying that American ~> U.S. English dialect is different than 
> other English dialects around the world and that those differences were 
> part of a breakdown in communications?
> > Yeah you were.
> 
> No, I was not. See the bullet points above.
> > They are, until someone comes along and starts implying they are stupid, 
> > which is what you did.
> 
> How did I imply that anyone is stupid?
> 
> I apologize if I did so. That was certainly not my intent.
> > Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset with you?
> 
> No.
> > Have you worked out what you did and how not to do it again?
> 
> No.
> 
> The only thing that I wish I had done differently was not used the 
> phrase "gaming adapter". I see no problems with anything else that I've 
> done.
> > Have you decided to change?
> 
> Not yet.
> 
> I'm still open to feedback & critique.
> > Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told off for being rude and 
> > dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit the 
> > list, and I bitterly regret that.
> 
> I think some of your comments have been curt. But I don't consider 
> "curt" to be "rude".
> > But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I do not want to do 
> > it again.
> 
> Good for you.
> > Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the right all along and we've 
> > overreacted.
> 
> I'm not saying I am in the right. I am saying that I 

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/14/19 12:16 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi working on Win98. That's 
not the same thing.


The letter of what the OP wanted was WiFi.  I took the spirit of what 
the OP wanted was network.



You jumped to a conclusion.


No I did not.

I responded to comment where someone else said "you may want to consider 
… using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network bridge".


I stated "IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly 
called 'gaming adapters'.  It functions as the wireless client to 
connect the wired Ethernet client."  The key points being:


 - "IMHO" meaning in my humble opinion
 - "functioning as" meaning doing the same / similar thing as
 - "what I /think/" as in what I believe but could be wrong about
 - "commonly called" as in not always
 - "it functions as a wireless client to connect the wired Ethernet 
client." as in it's a way to connect a wired only device to a wireless 
network.



Then, you declared, rudely,  the OP that they should buy something,


How does "OPZ would be functioning as" translate to the OP should buy 
something?


by repeatedly, derisively, using a name that might be meaningful to 
millennial gamers, 


Many of the people in my community are decidedly outside of the 
millennial gamers group and know what a gaming adapter is.


I have no idea what age range people on this mailing list are—I honestly 
don't care—but I strongly suspect that more people now know what a 
gaming adapter is than did so before the start of this thread.



but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level techies.


Please don't conflate age with level of techies.

I've worked with all four combinations of the binary young / old vs 
techie / non-techie.



Also, your idea meant going out and spending money on something new,


No, it did not.

when this is a community of people who you could reasonably expect to 
favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with 
existing tech that they already own.


That's one of the reasons that I enjoy this community.  I re-use things 
for different purposes all the time.  I enjoy seeing how others solve 
their problems.


You told someone who is trying to do something on a 20-25 year old OS 
in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should be 
buying a peripheral for a games console.


No I did not.


[1] You did not "suggest". You hectored, rudely.


I disagree.

I was not intend to be rude.  I apologize to anyone that thought I was rude.

[2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated some buzzword phrase 
nobody else here knows.


I disagree.

My original comment stated "It functions as the wireless client to 
connect the wired Ethernet client."



[3] You didn't explain that, either.


See above.

You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of us as competent adults 
instead of poking fun?


I continue to believe that I have addressed everyone in this thread as 
competent adults.


I did not intentionally try to poke fun at anyone.

Believe me, when I say that I'm much more of an ass hole if I want to be 
and try to poke at someone.



Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked better.

WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.


What does American have to do with this?

Are you implying that American ~> U.S. English dialect is different than 
other English dialects around the world and that those differences were 
part of a breakdown in communications?



Yeah you were.


No, I was not.  See the bullet points above.

They are, until someone comes along and starts implying they are stupid, 
which is what you did.


How did I imply that anyone is stupid?

I apologize if I did so.  That was certainly not my intent.


Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset with you?


No.


Have you worked out what you did and how not to do it again?


No.

The only thing that I wish I had done differently was not used the 
phrase "gaming adapter".  I see no problems with anything else that I've 
done.



Have you decided to change?


Not yet.

I'm still open to feedback & critique.

Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told off for being rude and 
dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit the 
list, and I bitterly regret that.


I think some of your comments have been curt.  But I don't consider 
"curt" to be "rude".


But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I do not want to do 
it again.


Good for you.

Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the right all along and we've 
overreacted.


I'm not saying I am in the right.  I am saying that I don't think I'm in 
the wrong.


To me, there is a relatively neutral state in the middle, which is where 
I think I am.


I think you should reconsider and try to use this as a learning 
experience.


I try to learn from things that I experience daily.  I think most people 
do too.


There is a reason that I'm trying to defuse what I am currently chalking 
up to miscommunication based 

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 20:02, Grant Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> The OP wanted a way to get a computer on the network, preferably
> wireless, or wired.

No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi working on Win98. That's
not the same thing.

You jumped to a conclusion.

Then, you declared, rudely,  the OP that they should buy something, by
repeatedly, derisively, using a name that might be meaningful to
millennial gamers, but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level
techies.

Also, your idea meant going out and spending money on something new,
when this is a community of people who you could reasonably expect to
favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with
existing tech that they already own.

You told someone who is trying to do something on a 20-25 year old OS
in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should
be buying a peripheral for a games console.

> The type of device I suggested

[1] You did not "suggest". You hectored, rudely.

> very early did exactly what the OP
> wanted.

[2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated some buzzword phrase
nobody else here knows.

> Said device took a wired connection and bridged it to the
> wireless network.  That seems very relevant to me.

[3] You didn't explain that, either.

> I suspect the conversation would have gone differently if I didn't call
> the device a "gaming adapter" and instead called it a "client ap" /
> "network bridge" / "wired to wireless converter" or just about anything
> else that didn't have the word "game" in it.

You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of us as competent
adults instead of poking fun?

Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked better.

> I called it a "gaming adapter" — while saying "broadly" to allow room
> for interpretation / difference of opinion / etc — because that's what
> I've frequently heard them called in man different areas in the U.S.

WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.

> I'm not saying that's the proper or best name.

Yeah you were.

> I was taken aback at some of the responses that I perceived as "I don't
> have anything to do with gaming and anything related gaming can't
> possibly solve my problem or fulfill my need".  This is particularly
> surprising because I'm used to the cctalk community being open minded

They are, until someone comes along and starts implying they are
stupid, which is what you did.

> I have found this conversation to be eye opening in a number of
> different ways.  I knew, but have seen confirmation in the thread, that
> different people know things as different names, and describe things
> based on what they know.  More power to them.  I've also expanded my
> working definitions of things.

Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset with you? Have you
worked out what you did and how not to do it again? Have you decided
to change?

Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told off for being rude and
dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit
the list, and I bitterly regret that.

But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I do not want to do it again.

Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the right all along and
we've overreacted.

I think you should reconsider and try to use this as a learning experience.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 11:36 AM 5/14/2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
>> But you did look it up, and I'm guessing you now have an idea where it
>> could be used, even for things other than gaming consoles.
>No, not really. Some kind of toy attachment. Not really relevant to
>the discussion, AFAICS.

We should start a campaign to get all those companies who
make products that don't exist!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_game_adapter
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=wireless+"gaming+adapter; 

https://www.linksys.com/us/support-product?pid=01t8003KMvaAAG
 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/653104-REG/Trendnet_TEW_647GA_Wireless_N_Gaming_Adapter.html
 

https://www.cnet.com/products/usrobotics-wireless-gaming-adapter-ethernet-bridge-usr5430-bridge-802-11b-g-desktop/
 

https://superuser.com/questions/663980/what-are-the-differences-between-wireless-gaming-adapters-and-straight-wireless
 

- John

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/14/19 10:36 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
Some kind of toy attachment. Not really relevant to the discussion, 
AFAICS.


The OP wanted a way to get a computer on the network, preferably 
wireless, or wired.


The type of device I suggested very early did exactly what the OP 
wanted.  Said device took a wired connection and bridged it to the 
wireless network.  That seems very relevant to me.


I suspect the conversation would have gone differently if I didn't call 
the device a "gaming adapter" and instead called it a "client ap" / 
"network bridge" / "wired to wireless converter" or just about anything 
else that didn't have the word "game" in it.


I called it a "gaming adapter" — while saying "broadly" to allow room 
for interpretation / difference of opinion / etc — because that's what 
I've frequently heard them called in man different areas in the U.S. 
I'm not saying that's the proper or best name.  I am saying that's what 
I and many people in the circles that I travel know them as.  Or at 
least know that multiple different devices can function as a "gaming 
adapter".


I was taken aback at some of the responses that I perceived as "I don't 
have anything to do with gaming and anything related gaming can't 
possibly solve my problem or fulfill my need".  This is particularly 
surprising because I'm used to the cctalk community being open minded 
and realizing that the exact same thing, or different things that do the 
same function can go by many different names / descriptions.  Further, I 
think many in the cctalk community are likely known among their friends 
for taking something and using it for something completely tangential to 
it's original purpose.


I am thankful that it seems like there's been nothing more than ruffled 
feathers.  I'm grateful that we have all been adults and not restored to 
name calling or mud slinging.


I have found this conversation to be eye opening in a number of 
different ways.  I knew, but have seen confirmation in the thread, that 
different people know things as different names, and describe things 
based on what they know.  More power to them.  I've also expanded my 
working definitions of things.


I still maintain that the device that connects a device with a wired 
Ethernet connection to a Wireless network is relevant to the discussion. 
 I and many people I talk to classify that device as a "gaming adapter."




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 04:54, Grant Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Maybe it's a regional term.  I've heard other people use it in multiple
> states here in the U.S.A.

Hi, welcome to ClassicCmp. This is an international list with members
in dozens of countries and dozens of native languages.

You are _not_ winning any friends here. In fact the reverse is true.

> But you did look it up, and I'm guessing you now have an idea where it
> could be used, even for things other than gaming consoles.

No, not really. Some kind of toy attachment. Not really relevant to
the discussion, AFAICS.

Please stop digging that hole you're in.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 00:39, Grant Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> So you turned your laptop into a gaming adapter.

31 years in the tech industry, some 5-6 years as a hobbyist before
that, working in 4 countries in international teams in multiple
sectors from retail to the enterprise.

I have _never_ heard that term and have no idea what it means.

Don't be so glib. It looks bad on anyone.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 14/05/2019 14:17, John Foust via cctalk wrote:

At 03:02 AM 5/14/2019, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2019, Grant Taylor wrote:

"Gaming adapters" take a wired computer and connect it to a wireless network.


That "adapter" has always been called a WLAN or wireless bridge.


I've known the term "gaming adapter" because I knew it was the common
name for what I'd call a dedicated wireless network bridge.  Just another
fine example of how gaming has come to dominate parts of the computer world.
They who sell the most get to name the thing.


But they probably don't.  Almost every smart TV and settop box 
manufacturer sells a wired-to-wireless bridge dongle, and I'd bet there 
are more "wireless adapters" or "network adapters" sold for that purpose 
rather than gaming, simply because TVs, settop boxes and DVD/BluRay 
players outsell gaming machines.  And then there are the slightly more 
sophisticated/robust ones sold by the likes of 3Com and Cisco, which 
I've never seen called anything other than a "wireless bridge".


There are two or three groups at my university who regularly organise 
gaming parties, or sometimes called "LAN parties" here, and plenty of 
ad-hoc groups who also do so since the word got round that IT Services 
was willing to provide some support for them.  I've never heard the term 
"gaming adapter" from them.  Perhaps it's a piece of localised jargon. 
The AV Services department, who use quite a lot of them for large TV 
screens in lecture theatres, for remote lectures, teleconferencing, as 
bulletin boards, etc always call them "wireless adapters" or sometimes 
"network adapters".


When "gaming adapter" was first mentioned, one of the first things that 
came to mind was the joystick-shaped gadget that fits over a keyboard to 
press the up/down/left/right keys when you waggle it.  Searching "gaming 
adapter" throws up a lot of USB wireless dongles before wired Ethernet 
ones.  I don't really care what you or Grant call it yourself, but at 
best the term is confusing, given it can mean at least two other things, 
and it's certainly not any sort of canonical name as has been suggested.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

RE: Network cards and Win98SE

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via
> cctalk
> Sent: 14 May 2019 16:03
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Network cards and Win98SE
> 
> One other problem I have with the term "gaming adapter" is the overuse
> by the marketeers of the term "gaming".   So we have gaming systems,
> keyboards, monitors, mice, chairs and probably coffee cups.  The original
> meaning of "to game" is "manipulate (a situation), typically in
> a way that is unfair or unscrupulous."   Perhaps the term when used by
> marketers, is apt.
> 

To me roughly translated, "Gaming" means we have made it 1% faster and doubled 
the price.
Most of the documents refer to this as Access Point Client Mode or Wireless 
Client Mode. Its been around for a long time.
Many Access Points will work in client mode I first used it for gaming, well 
for my sons gaming with a cheap TP link box for his playstation
I still have one for my TV box which only has a wired connection


> Reminds me of the overuse of "turbo".
> 
> --Chuck

Dave

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[geneb via cctalk]

On Tue, 14 May 2019, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote:


Allison, how about you?
Al, how about you?
ARD, how about you?
Geneb has a flight simulator, . . .



s/has a/has four..ish/

:)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Tapley, Mark via cctalk]

> On May 13, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 13 May 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> The last game that I recall playing with any frequency was Chess 3.0 on
>> a Cyber 74.   Other games over the years have held my interest for only
>> a couple of hours, tops.  For the last 30 years, I haven't even bothered
>> to look.
>> 
>> Fred, how about you?
> 
> Adventure in the 1970s, Lode Runner and Tetris in the 1980s
> 
> 
> I do sudokus ( www.websudoku.com/?level-4 )
> 
> 
> Allison, how about you?
> Al, how about you?
> ARD, how about you?
> Geneb has a flight simulator, . . .

By and large, my opinion is that gaming is a waste of a life (and some cool 
hardware), but, in addition to Gene’s flight simulator, I have to hold up one 
more counter-example: Civilization IV. Emmy-winning theme music by Christopher 
Tin; narration by Leonard Nimoy. 
- Mark

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 10:03 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:
> One other problem I have with the term "gaming adapter" is the overuse
> by the marketeers of the term "gaming".   So we have gaming systems,
> keyboards, monitors, mice, chairs and probably coffee cups.
>
> Reminds me of the overuse of "turbo".

How many buttons on a Turbo Gaming Coffee Mug?

-ethan

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

> On May 14, 2019 at 10:02 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> One other problem I have with the term "gaming adapter" is the overuse
> by the marketeers of the term "gaming". So we have gaming systems,
> keyboards, monitors, mice, chairs and probably coffee cups. The
> original meaning of "to game" is "manipulate (a situation), typically in
> a way that is unfair or unscrupulous." Perhaps the term when used by
> marketers, is apt.
> 
> Reminds me of the overuse of "turbo".
> 
> --Chuck

I just had to find out:
https://www.amazon.com/Gamer-Coffee-Mug-gift/dp/B06Y3Y74QS

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

One other problem I have with the term "gaming adapter" is the overuse
by the marketeers of the term "gaming".   So we have gaming systems,
keyboards, monitors, mice, chairs and probably coffee cups.  The
original meaning of "to game" is "manipulate (a situation), typically in
a way that is unfair or unscrupulous."   Perhaps the term when used by
marketers, is apt.

Reminds me of the overuse of "turbo".

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/14/19 7:19 AM, Chris Elmquist wrote:

> But now you are going to be bombarded with ads for yoga pants...

Sure, picture me in yoga pants--and before lunch yet.  Have you no
respect for utter revulsion?

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: John Foust

> I missed the start of this discussion... exactly why did you want to
> rely on a wireless connection and couldn't string a network cable?

The list archive:

  http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/

is your friend. (That's actually how I read it, so my emailbox won't
get buried in sludge.)

Noel

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Monday (05/13/2019 at 10:15PM -0700), Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/13/19 9:10 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> > On 5/13/19 10:04 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> 
> >> Those who know me, for example, will know I have little interest in
> >> physical exercise. But I bought a mat intended for such activities
> >> because it was a suitable material for lininng a carrying case for a
> >> piece of photographic equipment.
> 
> I use yoga mat material as a benchtop cover, photo background, and
> something to cushion my old bones when I'm crouching into a piece of
> gear on floor.  It's cheap--about $12 shipped for a mat from Amazon.
> 
> Never did, nor want to start doing yoga.

But now you are going to be bombarded with ads for yoga pants...

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 03:02 AM 5/14/2019, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
>On Mon, 13 May 2019, Grant Taylor wrote:
>>"Gaming adapters" take a wired computer and connect it to a wireless network.
>
>That "adapter" has always been called a WLAN or wireless bridge.

I've known the term "gaming adapter" because I knew it was the common
name for what I'd call a dedicated wireless network bridge.  Just another
fine example of how gaming has come to dominate parts of the computer world.
They who sell the most get to name the thing.

Once you start playing with a few, you'll learn whether they are easy
or difficult to administer (usually via a web interface at a fixed IP), 
whether you can truly rely on them, and the quirks of whatever method 
they use to act like a no-cat network cable.

Are they truly layer 2 in every sense?  Maybe not.  Are they duping
MAC addresses in weird ways?  Maybe.  Many were designed and tested to
work with yesterday's gaming consoles, not necessarily all the subtle 
nature of full-stack networking you might want to throw at it.

And yes, you can change the mode of other off-the-shelf consumer 
firewall/router/WiFi AP devices to act like bridges.

Another option (that doesn't require any configuration) is the AC powerline
adapter, which will deliver a layer 2 connection across the power in
your walls.

I missed the start of this discussion...  exactly why did you want to
rely on a wireless connection and couldn't string a network cable?

- John

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 13/05/2019 23:47, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I merely wanted to point 
out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux 
tech docs as they're not written for that audience. 


You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc.  But I'd be somewhat 
surprised if you didn't.


Hmm.  I've been a network manager for over 20 years, supporting tens of 
thousands of staff and students at a university where there's a lot of 
gaming activity and I've never heard the term gaming adapter before.


The term could mean many things...

> The first eight hits on a google search for "gaming adapter" are
> directly relevant.

The first few hits I get refer to a USB device to connect to a console 
to give it WiFi capability.  That's not what Charles described, and what 
you referred to, which is a network bridge.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Mon, 13 May 2019, Grant Taylor wrote:

"Gaming adapters" take a wired computer and connect it to a wireless network.


That "adapter" has always been called a WLAN or wireless bridge.

Christian

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Those who know me, for example, will know I have little interest in
physical exercise. But I bought a mat intended for such activities
because it was a suitable material for lininng a carrying case for a
piece of photographic equipment.



On Mon, 13 May 2019, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
A deceased friend lined some airtight camera cases with foam that 
deteriorated and destroyed expensive equipment (including Leica 200mm 
visoflex lens).

Be careful.


CORRECTION: the most expensive item destroyed was a Leica 180mm 
Tele-Elmarit f2.8 lens.  It had been mint condition before he put it in 
the case.   Not much damage to the glass, but it destroyed and pitted the 
finish of the rest of the lens, removing all collector value.

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Those who know me, for example, will know I have little interest in
physical exercise. But I bought a mat intended for such activities
because it was a suitable material for lininng a carrying case for a
piece of photographic equipment.


A deceased friend lined some airtight camera cases with foam that 
deteriorated and destroyed expensive equipment (including Leica 200mm 
visoflex lens).


Be careful.

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 9:10 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/13/19 10:04 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:

>> Those who know me, for example, will know I have little interest in
>> physical exercise. But I bought a mat intended for such activities
>> because it was a suitable material for lininng a carrying case for a
>> piece of photographic equipment.

I use yoga mat material as a benchtop cover, photo background, and
something to cushion my old bones when I'm crouching into a piece of
gear on floor.  It's cheap--about $12 shipped for a mat from Amazon.

Never did, nor want to start doing yoga.

I just bought a batch of microscope slides and covers for a
non-microscope use.  I'll see if the idea works before elaborating further.

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 10:04 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On the other hand I do not object to buyng something because the 
_intended_ use is of no interest to me.


I hoist my drink to you.

If you have a use for it, great.  If not, then pass.  Oh, that's not the 
intended use?  Pft.


Those who know me, for example, will know I have little interest in 
physical exercise. But I bought a mat intended for such activities 
because it was a suitable material for lininng a carrying case for 
a piece of photographic equipment.


Sounds like a good use to me.

I would happily buy something sold for computer gaming if I could 
find a use for it.


;-)



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:57 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 13 May 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > The last game that I recall playing with any frequency was Chess 3.0 on
> > a Cyber 74.   Other games over the years have held my interest for only
> > a couple of hours, tops.  For the last 30 years, I haven't even bothered
> > to look.
> >
> > Fred, how about you?
>
> Adventure in the 1970s, Lode Runner and Tetris in the 1980s
>
>
> I do sudokus ( www.websudoku.com/?level-4 )
>
>
> Allison, how about you?
> Al, how about you?
> ARD, how about you?

I do the Sudoku and crossword puzzle in the newspaper most
days.

The last computer game I played was one of the Infocom
text adventures (I forget which one) about 25 years ago.

> Geneb has a flight simulator, . . .

On the other hand I do not object to buyng something because
the _intended_ use is of no interest to me. Those who know me,
for example, will know I have little interest in physical exercise. But
I bought a mat intended for such activities because it was a suitable
material for lininng a carrying case for a piece of photographic
equipment.

I would happily buy something sold for computer gaming if I could
find a use for it.

-tony

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 9:48 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

"RPG" today doesn't mean a computer language anymore.


In the circles that I travel in, Report Program Generator is quite common.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 7:50 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/13/19 5:38 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> So which term came first, "gaming adapter" or "network bridging"?
> 
> Without a doubt, "network bridging".  But good luck going into the
> average box store (or possibly even online etailers) and getting someone
> to know what a "network bridging" device is.  Conversely, most of them
> will know what a "gaming adapter" is.

Oh, I've given up on being understood.  "RPG" today doesn't mean a
computer language anymore.  It means either a game or a type of
explosive projectile launcher.

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 7:52 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I had to google "gaming adapter" because I had never heard the term 
before, and I've been working with 802.11 since 2001 when all we had 
was 2mbps.


Maybe it's a regional term.  I've heard other people use it in multiple 
states here in the U.S.A.


But you did look it up, and I'm guessing you now have an idea where it 
could be used, even for things other than gaming consoles.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 5:38 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

So which term came first, "gaming adapter" or "network bridging"?


Without a doubt, "network bridging".  But good luck going into the 
average box store (or possibly even online etailers) and getting someone 
to know what a "network bridging" device is.  Conversely, most of them 
will know what a "gaming adapter" is.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:47 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> > I don't want to get into a long discussion; I merely wanted to point
> > out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux
> > tech docs as they're not written for that audience.
>
> You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc.  But I'd be somewhat
> surprised if you didn't.
<
> The first eight hits on a google search for "gaming adapter" are
> directly relevant.

I had to google "gaming adapter" because I had never heard the term
before, and I've been working with 802.11 since 2001 when all we had
was 2mbps.

I don't have a game console to hook up, and if I did, I'd run a
wire... so "gaming adapter" was a null term for me prior to this
thread.

-ethan

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Malcolm via cctalk]

> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 17:41:24 -0500
> From: "Charles" 
> To: "cctalk digest" 
> Subject: Network cards and Win98SE
> Message-ID: <4F49BB9C660F44B8B67371D3BAB651AA@CharlesDellLap>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>   reply-type=original
> 
> I have tried for two days to get wireless networking running on my old PC
> under Win 98SE, so I can use PUTR without a separate partition or boot. XP
> is on an 8.4 GB drive. 98SE is on an older 540 MB drive.
> 
> There are two network cards (a Netgear WPN311 with Atheros chipset, and
> an
> Encore ENWLI-G2 with Realtek 8185 chip) and neither will work with
> Win98SE.
> I have tried the manufacturer's drivers, Atheros drivers, Realtek
drivers...
> none of it works. The Realtek driver installs but gives a fault in
RUNDLL32.
> 
> Netgear's website claims that the WPN311 can run under 98SE and later.
> Some
> sources for that driver package say it starts with XP. Although I would
tend
> to believe the manufacturer...
> The same Netgear card in the same motherboard was working correctly with
> the
> XP drive.
> 
> I even did a fresh install of 98SE. Then installed the WPN311 software,
then
> the card. Windows says the card is installed and working properly.
> But the Netgear utility won't run (hangs, Task Manager showing wlancfg5
not
> responding). That's usually because it can't see the card.
> 
> Searching the net including various forums from years ago hasn't helped.
> So I'm about to give up. Wasted enough hours on this. Back to XP with a
DOS
> partition for running PUTR.
> Unless someone has a better idea :)
> 
> thanks
> Charles

Hi Charles,

About 5 years ago I spent way too much time trying to sort out a PC platform
that would meet my needs for disk imaging (ImageDisk), PUTR, network file
transfers and ISA-based EPROM programmers.  I eventually settled on a
Pentium II bare motherboard, AHA-1522A SCSI card (for its floppy controller
which supports single-density disks), CF card as a hard drive, FDADAP
adapter (for 8" drives), a generic ISA network interface card, MSDOS 6.22,
Norton Commander and Michael Brutman's mTCP package.

With this setup I can run PUTR and ImageDisk without any Windows-related
issues. File transfers to other computers are a breeze: mTCP includes an FTP
server and I just run FileZilla on my Windows machines to connect to the
MSDOS machine.  Alternatively I can power down the MSDOS machine, and plug
the CF card into a USB adapter and copy files that way instead.

I appreciate these suggestions won't help if you need to have Win98 on the
same machine for other reasons.

Malcolm.

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 13 May 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

The last game that I recall playing with any frequency was Chess 3.0 on
a Cyber 74.   Other games over the years have held my interest for only
a couple of hours, tops.  For the last 30 years, I haven't even bothered
to look.

Fred, how about you?


Adventure in the 1970s, Lode Runner and Tetris in the 1980s


I do sudokus ( www.websudoku.com/?level-4 )


Allison, how about you?
Al, how about you?
ARD, how about you?
Geneb has a flight simulator, . . .

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 4:21 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

> "gaming adapter" is a broad category like "vacuum / hoover" or "copier /
> Xerox" or "tissue / Kleenex" or "automobile".  All of which have many
> names that can be used equally across many different broad categories.
> 
> "Gaming adapters" take a wired computer and connect it to a wireless
> network.

So which term came first, "gaming adapter" or "network bridging"?

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 4:05 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:
>> You could have installed a gaming adapter, opened the web page,
>> connected it to the wireless and been done.
> 
> Sure, but you assume I know anything about online gaming (I don't); it
> would require purchasing one, *and* I already had the Linksys router and
> card, just gathering dust for years!

I guess it's a common human tendency to think that values that apply to
today's younger adults also apply to those of us in our "golden" years.

The last game that I recall playing with any frequency was Chess 3.0 on
a Cyber 74.   Other games over the years have held my interest for only
a couple of hours, tops.  For the last 30 years, I haven't even bothered
to look.

Fred, how about you?

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 5:05 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:

Sure, but you assume I know anything about online gaming (I don't);


No, I do not.

"gaming adapter" is a broad category like "vacuum / hoover" or "copier / 
Xerox" or "tissue / Kleenex" or "automobile".  All of which have many 
names that can be used equally across many different broad categories.


"Gaming adapters" take a wired computer and connect it to a wireless 
network.


The fact that it has "gaming" in it's name does not in any way imply 
that you must know anything about gaming of any kind.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Charles via cctalk]

You could have installed a gaming adapter, opened the web page,
connected it to the wireless and been done.


Sure, but you assume I know anything about online gaming (I don't); it would 
require purchasing one, *and* I already had the Linksys router and card, 
just gathering dust for years!
I like to improvise with what's on hand rather than spending money on a 
really ancient PC :) 

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

I use    3  com  stuff  I  think    the other brands   I  toss in a  box in the 
warehouse.
later   3  com  stuff auto  finds  etc  works  fine... lats a long  time!
 ( paint it  grey and It  will not  rust )
Ed#
In a message dated 5/13/2019 3:39:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
On 5/13/19 3:56 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. The reason I’m not using Ethernet cable is because 
> the Vintage Computer Room (where this PC resides) is on the 2nd floor 
> around a couple of corners, and my DSL modem/router and unfiltered phone 
> line are in the 1st floor study. Would take a long run and some 
> drilling, or duct taping it to the banister and hoping the dog and cats 
> don’t eat it ;)
> 
> However, after finally giving up on the wireless cards... I realized 
> that I had a simple Linksys LNE100TX Ethernet card in the PC junk pile. 
> I installed that (it was recognized by 98SE and the drivers worked first 
> time too), then brought my laptop upstairs and set it up as a bridge. 
> That works, but is clumsy and requires another computer.

So you turned your laptop into a gaming adapter.

> My next idea was to find a wireless device to connect to the Ethernet 
> card. I found out about WLAN, bridging, and most importantly, that many 
> models of router can be reflashed with dd-wrt software, and act as the 
> bridge I needed! Also in the closet was a Linksys E1200 router, which is 
> one of the models supported by dd-wrt. So I flashed it and hooked it up.

You turned the Linksys into a gaming adapter.

> After a bit of struggle (incomplete directions but I managed to fill in 
> the missing pieces) I now have wireless network and Internet access on 
> the old machine :)

You could have installed a gaming adapter, opened the web page, 
connected it to the wireless and been done.

> Incidentally, PUTR now works perfectly since I’m running 98SE/DOS.

Ya.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I merely wanted to point 
out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux 
tech docs as they're not written for that audience. And it's very 
likely that something with the Debian kernel will be used on an OPZ.


You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc.  But I'd be somewhat 
surprised if you didn't.


The first eight hits on a google search for "gaming adapter" are 
directly relevant.


Spend a few minutes looking at any of them and it should become clear 
that any Ethernet connected computer / device / game console / printer / 
etc. can be put onto wireless.  Knowing that, it should be possible to 
realize that any standard wired Ethernet card that Linux supports will work.


1)  Connect the computer to the gaming adapter with a 1 ~ 3 foot 
Ethernet cable.

2)  Open a web browser to the gaming adapter's configuration interface.
3)  Configure the gaming adapter for the wireless network.
4)  (Maybe) reboot or obtain a new IP.
5)  Use the wired computer on the wireless network via the gaming adapter.

ProTip:  Plug the gaming adapter into a switch if you want multiple 
wired computers to be able to use the wireless.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 3:56 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:
Thanks for the tips. The reason I’m not using Ethernet cable is because 
the Vintage Computer Room (where this PC resides) is on the 2nd floor 
around a couple of corners, and my DSL modem/router and unfiltered phone 
line are in the 1st floor study. Would take a long run and some 
drilling, or duct taping it to the banister and hoping the dog and cats 
don’t eat it ;)


However, after finally giving up on the wireless cards... I realized 
that I had a simple Linksys LNE100TX Ethernet card in the PC junk pile. 
I installed that (it was recognized by 98SE and the drivers worked first 
time too), then brought my laptop upstairs and set it up as a bridge. 
That works, but is clumsy and requires another computer.


So you turned your laptop into a gaming adapter.

My next idea was to find a wireless device to connect to the Ethernet 
card. I found out about WLAN, bridging, and most importantly, that many 
models of router can be reflashed with dd-wrt software, and act as the 
bridge I needed! Also in the closet was a Linksys E1200 router, which is 
one of the models supported by dd-wrt. So I flashed it and hooked it up.


You turned the Linksys into a gaming adapter.

After a bit of struggle (incomplete directions but I managed to fill in 
the missing pieces) I now have wireless network and Internet access on 
the old machine :)


You could have installed a gaming adapter, opened the web page, 
connected it to the wireless and been done.



Incidentally, PUTR now works perfectly since I’m running 98SE/DOS.


Ya.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/13/19 11:58 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On May 12, 2019, at 10:17 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> Don't know a thing about gaming and never wanted to--wrong generation, I 
>> guess.
> 
> Perhaps “gaming adapter” is the wrong term for this audience.
> 
> Let me describe it as a type of switch that you plug the wired computer into, 
> go to a management webpage there on and give it the wireless network 
> information.

I don't want to get into a long discussion; I merely wanted to point out
that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux tech
docs as they're not written for that audience. And it's very likely that
something with the Debian kernel will be used on an OPZ.

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Charles via cctalk]

Thanks for the tips. The reason I’m not using Ethernet cable is because the 
Vintage Computer Room (where this PC resides) is on the 2nd floor around a 
couple of corners, and my DSL modem/router and unfiltered phone line are in 
the 1st floor study. Would take a long run and some drilling, or duct taping 
it to the banister and hoping the dog and cats don’t eat it ;)


However, after finally giving up on the wireless cards... I realized that I 
had a simple Linksys LNE100TX Ethernet card in the PC junk pile. I installed 
that (it was recognized by 98SE and the drivers worked first time too), then 
brought my laptop upstairs and set it up as a bridge. That works, but is 
clumsy and requires another computer.


My next idea was to find a wireless device to connect to the Ethernet card. 
I found out about WLAN, bridging, and most importantly, that many models of 
router can be reflashed with dd-wrt software, and act as the bridge I 
needed! Also in the closet was a Linksys E1200 router, which is one of the 
models supported by dd-wrt. So I flashed it and hooked it up.


After a bit of struggle (incomplete directions but I managed to fill in the 
missing pieces) I now have wireless network and Internet access on the old 
machine :)
Incidentally, PUTR now works perfectly since I’m running 98SE/DOS. 

RE: Network cards and Win98SE

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Liam Proven via
> cctalk
> Sent: 13 May 2019 12:18
> To: John Many Jars ; General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Network cards and Win98SE
> 
> On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 12:02, John Many Jars via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > I just run PUTR under DosBox on a modern PC.  A pain but... easier.
> 
> Can that read/write physical media?

I suspect the simplest way would be to use something like this:-

https://www.comms-express.com/products/tp-link-tl-wa850re/

goes into a wired connection but lets you keep the network security high..


> 
> --
> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 12:02, John Many Jars via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I just run PUTR under DosBox on a modern PC.  A pain but... easier.

Can that read/write physical media?

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[John Many Jars via cctalk]

I just run PUTR under DosBox on a modern PC.  A pain but... easier.

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 23:41, Charles via cctalk 
wrote:

> I have tried for two days to get wireless networking running on my old PC
> under Win 98SE, so I can use PUTR without a separate partition or boot. XP
> is on an 8.4 GB drive. 98SE is on an older 540 MB drive.
>
> There are two network cards (a Netgear WPN311 with Atheros chipset, and an
> Encore ENWLI-G2 with Realtek 8185 chip) and neither will work with Win98SE.
> I have tried the manufacturer's drivers, Atheros drivers, Realtek
> drivers...
> none of it works. The Realtek driver installs but gives a fault in
> RUNDLL32.
>
> Netgear's website claims that the WPN311 can run under 98SE and later.
> Some
> sources for that driver package say it starts with XP. Although I would
> tend
> to believe the manufacturer...
> The same Netgear card in the same motherboard was working correctly with
> the
> XP drive.
>
> I even did a fresh install of 98SE. Then installed the WPN311 software,
> then
> the card. Windows says the card is installed and working properly.
> But the Netgear utility won't run (hangs, Task Manager showing wlancfg5
> not
> responding). That's usually because it can't see the card.
>
> Searching the net including various forums from years ago hasn't helped.
> So I'm about to give up. Wasted enough hours on this. Back to XP with a
> DOS
> partition for running PUTR.
> Unless someone has a better idea :)
>
> thanks
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net


"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/12/19 7:33 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/12/19 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> Something else you may want to consider if your 98SE box has a
>> traditional NIC is using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network
>> bridge.  I've done that using an Orange Pi Zero and it works very well.
> 
> IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly called
> "gaming adapters".  It functions as the wireless client to connect the
> wired Ethernet client.

Don't know a thing about gaming and never wanted to--wrong generation, I
guess.

In Linux terminology, it's a "bridge connection".   Very simple to set up:

https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections

You could probably do the same thing with dnsmasq and iptables.

More than one way to skin a cat.

I think there's also a port of ddwrt for the OPZ, so you could also use
that.  A lot more horsepower in any case than the Win98 box (quad-core
1.4GHz ARM, IIRC)

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 5/12/19 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Something else you may want to consider if your 98SE box has a 
traditional NIC is using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network 
bridge.  I've done that using an Orange Pi Zero and it works very well.


IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly called 
"gaming adapters".  It functions as the wireless client to connect the 
wired Ethernet client.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

Something else you may want to consider if your 98SE box has a
traditional NIC is using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network
bridge.  I've done that using an Orange Pi Zero and it works very well.

Wfi to the OPZ and RJ-45 to the 98SE system.  No need for fancy network
negotiation on the Win98 box.

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/12/19 3:41 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:
> I have tried for two days to get wireless networking running on my old
> PC under Win 98SE, so I can use PUTR without a separate partition or
> boot. XP is on an 8.4 GB drive. 98SE is on an older 540 MB drive.

The older Linksys WMP54G and GS will work Win98SE, as well as the older
slower WMP11 Wireless-B adapter.

Any reason that you're not using a wired adapter?

--Chuck

Re: Network cards and Win98SE

[Cindy Croxton via cctalk]

On 5/12/19 5:41 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:
I have tried for two days to get wireless networking running on my old 
PC under Win 98SE, so I can use PUTR without a separate partition or 
boot. XP is on an 8.4 GB drive. 98SE is on an older 540 MB drive.


There are two network cards (a Netgear WPN311 with Atheros chipset, 
and an Encore ENWLI-G2 with Realtek 8185 chip) and neither will work 
with Win98SE.
I have tried the manufacturer's drivers, Atheros drivers, Realtek 
drivers... none of it works. The Realtek driver installs but gives a 
fault in RUNDLL32.


Netgear's website claims that the WPN311 can run under 98SE and 
later.  Some sources for that driver package say it starts with XP. 
Although I would tend to believe the manufacturer...
The same Netgear card in the same motherboard was working correctly 
with the XP drive.


I even did a fresh install of 98SE. Then installed the WPN311 
software, then the card. Windows says the card is installed and 
working properly.
But the Netgear utility won't run (hangs, Task Manager showing 
wlancfg5 not responding). That's usually because it can't see the card.


Searching the net including various forums from years ago hasn't helped.
So I'm about to give up. Wasted enough hours on this. Back to XP with 
a DOS partition for running PUTR.

Unless someone has a better idea :)

thanks
Charles


I will look and see if I still have any Win98 wireless cards. They 
were not common.



Cindy