Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
Christian et al, sorry for the somewhat off-topicness: On Jun 21, 2015, at 5:56 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove captainkirk...@gmail.com wrote: The RPi comes with a free full version of Mathematica? That intrigues me; I've never used it before but I hear it's similar to MAPLE? (Then again in terms of CAS's I'm quite happy with the one on my TI-89 Titanium.) I believe the version of Mathematica is a full version. It did not come bundled, but here’s the Wolfram page describing it and pointing to the Raspberry Pi foundation (but not to the correct link for downloading mathematica): http://www.wolfram.com/raspberry-pi/ Our Raspberry Pi came with a flash card containing NOOBS, which allowed us to download and install our choice of several operating systems. We chose Raspbian, then downloaded and installed Mathematica. We solved a pretty small amount of trouble getting the icons to show up on the desktop, then I downloaded my largest and most complex Mathematica notebook which ran (well, crawled) without modification. Hm, on investigating, I think it actually is included in Raspbian now. If not, https://www.raspberrypi.org/mathematica-10/ may help. FWIW, Beaglebone Black is rumored to have a Mathematica port in the works: http://community.wolfram.com/groups/-/m/t/386736 Mathematica is similar to Maple from what I hear. I have not used Maple, though. In addition to the TI CAS’s you are familiar with, here is another option: http://maxima.sourceforge.net Free, runs on Windows/Linux/Mac/Android and source is available. I have tested briefly on my Mac OS X.9.5 and on my Moto X cellphone on Androiod 4.2, no problems so far. Likely not as powerful as Mathematica, but certainly has many of the same building blocks, so if you want to test computer-based CAS with little cost/hardware investment, this might be useful. The mod that does FORTH on a 6502 is a bit dead. Right now the best you can get is Lua. Yo uneed an obsolte version of MineCraft to use old RedPower 2 (which has the 6502 and FORTH interpreter). I think V1.4.6? Hm. Lua is still interesting. Will also has a TI-Nspire calculator which will run Lua as well as its own CAS system. That might be a really neat tie-in. (Back on topic) Have you tried setting him at a PDP-8 or PDP-11 simulator yet? Much more productive than Minecraft, and if you can find a simulator that also simulates a front panel… Sounds fun, but I’m a bit nervous about putting in that effort if it attracts him no more than Cardiac in Java did. But I’ll keep the suggestion in mind! I do have a pair of TRS-80 Color Computers and an assembly language cartridge; he showed not much interest there, so I’m not confident the PDP simulations would do much better. - Mark
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On 21 June 2015 at 18:21, Tapley, Mark mtap...@swri.edu wrote: It’s actually full V10 Mathematica, which was the thing that pushed me into getting it. It does depend on the web-link for lots of the help features, but I think is otherwise complete. It is also SLOW compared to most Mathematica platforms. I didn’t find out about the availability of the obsolete Minecraft version until later; my son spent some time with it but didn’t get hooked into other Pi features (and now owns his own x86 laptop). The RPi comes with a free full version of Mathematica? That intrigues me; I've never used it before but I hear it's similar to MAPLE? (Then again in terms of CAS's I'm quite happy with the one on my TI-89 Titanium.) Many thanks to all for the Minecraft mod suggestions; I’ll pass those on to Will the 14-year-old and see whether he feels like downloading some to make his redstone creations more programmable; like Toby I’m not a huge MineCrack fan but Will is spending time on it anyway; if he learns FORTH or 6502 assembly as a side-effect of fooling around in MineCraft, that seems like a step forward. The mod that does FORTH on a 6502 is a bit dead. Right now the best you can get is Lua. Yo uneed an obsolte version of MineCraft to use old RedPower 2 (which has the 6502 and FORTH interpreter). I think V1.4.6? He did help me write some code on the CARDIAC simulator (which rocks) but may have run out of interest in that, but at least he has this much intro to machine language. https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/cardiac.html https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/cardsim.html Have you tried setting him at a PDP-8 or PDP-11 simulator yet? Much more productive than Minecraft, and if you can find a simulator that also simulates a front panel... Cheers, Christian -- Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove STCKON08DS0 Contact information available upon request.
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On 6/20/2015 8:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote: Right. Get 'em hooked on Minecraft, and then it'll be easier to push them into harder drugs like VHDL later! :) There is a good grain of truth to that. In complex Minecraft command block systems, a programmer has to think about many, many tasks, running in parallel, each triggered by real time events connected with the redstone logic network. That starts to sound like Verilog. In thinking further - I might think that learning to do complex Minecraft command block systems is probably *better* for training future engineers that giving them a bunch of TTL and a protoboard. -- Will I purchased a Raspberry Pi recently and was surprised to find a version of Minecraft installed, I don't know anything about it but my son did. It sort of 'hooked' him into the Pi. Oh, and it also had Mathematica on it, a stripped down version. I think that was to get me 'hooked', I've never been able to afford Mathematica and am interested in it. Doug
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On Jun 19, 2015, at 10:55 PM, Toby Thain t...@telegraphics.com.au wrote: On 2015-06-19 11:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli wdonze...@gmail.com wrote: Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then move to command blocks. I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with friends on their own private servers). I'd suggest anyone serious about trying to get someone into logic and programming with Minecraft ... ... NOT do that. Sorry, had to be said. Minecraft has nothing to do with logic or electronics and would just be an unnecessarily obtuse way of approaching it. For an adult with too much time on their hands? Sure... —Toby “minecraft physics” is already a derogatory term around the house. And, whether I encourage it or not, he’s already into building complicated redstone sequencers. I’m hoping at least to expand his horizons into real-world projects. Minecraft computing has the asset that his “logic” is easy to interface to the “real” (ack, spit!) world, so that makes me realize that a stepper motor or something similar (suggested in the original thread) is a pretty good idea to add to the stack at some point. Generally speaking, I’m with you, Toby, but we are already there trying to get back….
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
And one more mine craft thingy, with a raspberry pi twist: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/withpiper/piper-a-minecraft-toolbox-for-budding-engineers They had these set up on pi day at the CHM and the kids involved really seemed to get into the physical interfacing and puzzles. Sent from my iPad On Jun 20, 2015, at 12:34 PM, William Donzelli wdonze...@gmail.com wrote: “minecraft physics” is already a derogatory term around the house. And, whether I encourage it or not, he’s already into building complicated redstone sequencers. I’m hoping at least to expand his horizons into real-world projects. Good. He has picked up the ball, now let him run with it. Even in unmodded Minecraft, you can do some amazing things with the redstone logic coupled with command blocks (yes, Mr. Grumpy Man Thain, with redstone you can have real gates and flipflops and race conditions and such. Go explore Youtube about it.). I think there are mods for non-RPi Minecraft that allows an interface to the real world, so when the time comes, he can start breaking out. I think Factorio is also getting some real logic systems, as well. It is a better game, but not really geared for the younger crowd. -- Will -- Will
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
Right. Get 'em hooked on Minecraft, and then it'll be easier to push them into harder drugs like VHDL later! :) There is a good grain of truth to that. In complex Minecraft command block systems, a programmer has to think about many, many tasks, running in parallel, each triggered by real time events connected with the redstone logic network. That starts to sound like Verilog. In thinking further - I might think that learning to do complex Minecraft command block systems is probably *better* for training future engineers that giving them a bunch of TTL and a protoboard. -- Will
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On 2015-06-20 8:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote: Right. Get 'em hooked on Minecraft, and then it'll be easier to push them into harder drugs like VHDL later! :) There is a good grain of truth to that. In complex Minecraft command block systems, a programmer has to think about many, many tasks, running in parallel, each triggered by real time events connected with the redstone logic network. That starts to sound like Verilog. Except with pointless obfuscation and click'n'drool topping. Standing by NOPE here. --Toby In thinking further - I might think that learning to do complex Minecraft command block systems is probably *better* for training future engineers that giving them a bunch of TTL and a protoboard. -- Will
