Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 11/18/2017 01:21 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctech wrote:
> You might be surprised how many LCD monitors support SoG. I have several
> iiyama LCD panels which work fine with a 3100.
>

All of my NEC Multisync LCD ones do--some even have 5 BNC connectors for
video input.

--Chuck

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[william degnan via cctalk]

I have a 3100 Vasstation but I have not used it yet..  I have only used my
MicroVAX 3100.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> You might be surprised how many LCD monitors support SoG. I have several
> iiyama LCD panels which work fine with a 3100.
>
> Aaron.
>
>
> Douglas Taylor via cctech writes:
>
> > I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,
> > Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
> >
> > The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a
> > 15 pin DEC designed connector.
> >
> > What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light
> > weight monitors?
> >
> > Doug
>

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Sophie Haskins via cctalk]

I've had v good luck w/ old video inputs & the ASUS PB78Q - I've gotten
video from:
* DEC VAXstation 4000 VLC (3W3 -> 3 BNC -> VGA)
* DEC 3000 AXP 300 (3W3 -> 3 BNC -> VGA)
* Sun SPARCstation (13W3 -> VGA)
* SGI Indy (13W3 -> VGA)
* NeXTstation mono (DB19 -> VGA w/ a cable off ebay)

Of these I'm definitely sure the NeXTstation, and the Indy use
sync-on-green - the others might be too? But at the least, that monitor is
compatible w/ Sync-on-green (and seems to be able to reliably deal with 3W3
-> 3 BNC -> VGA even when the BNC -> VGA cable is actually hoping for the
standard 5 BNC

Sophie


On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:48 PM, william degnan via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I have a 3100 Vasstation but I have not used it yet..  I have only used my
> MicroVAX 3100.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > You might be surprised how many LCD monitors support SoG. I have several
> > iiyama LCD panels which work fine with a 3100.
> >
> > Aaron.
> >
> >
> > Douglas Taylor via cctech writes:
> >
> > > I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,
> > > Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
> > >
> > > The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a
> > > 15 pin DEC designed connector.
> > >
> > > What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light
> > > weight monitors?
> > >
> > > Doug
> >
>

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Marco Rauhut via cctalk]

I have the same problem with a cheap 19" LCD VGA Screen. What i made is 
to seperate the required sync signal with an LM1881 Video Sync 
Seperator. I used the standard application from the TI datasheet.The 
only difference is that i used an viariable resistor on pin 6 to adjust 
to the Sync Frequency. That is running with my Vax Station 4000 / 60.


Marco Rauhut


Am 19.11.2017 um 04:57 schrieb Douglas Taylor via cctech:

On 11/18/2017 6:44 PM, william degnan wrote:



On Nov 18, 2017 4:09 PM, "Douglas Taylor via cctech" 
> wrote:

>
> I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 
300, Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.

>
> The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 
has a 15 pin DEC designed connector.

>
> What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light 
weight monitors?

>
> Doug
>

I have played around with that problem.  If you have a converter to 
get into a VGA port a newer high-end vga display will be able to 
adjust, but not a cheap one.  Because I use my vice vga/digital 
display for mode stuff, I use a huge SGI color display for all of my 
3w3 outputting systems and I just switch the cable around.  If you 
could imagine 5 or 6 systems clustered around the one display.


I am sure someone here has a technical explanation, but in a nutshell 
the 3W3 world signal isn't the same as a standard vga and cheap vga 
displays can't handle the refresh rate.  Someone will prob. refine my 
answer but that's why you can't just stick an adapter on there.


Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net 

I ran into a similar comment somewhere on the internet somewhere (it's 
a big place) that you had to make sure that the LCD monitor supported 
the H,V rates put out by the DEC video frame buffer.

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

On 11/18/2017 6:44 PM, william degnan wrote:



On Nov 18, 2017 4:09 PM, "Douglas Taylor via cctech" 
> wrote:

>
> I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300, 
Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.

>
> The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has 
a 15 pin DEC designed connector.

>
> What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light 
weight monitors?

>
> Doug
>

I have played around with that problem.  If you have a converter to 
get into a VGA port a newer high-end vga display will be able to 
adjust, but not a cheap one.  Because I use my vice vga/digital 
display for mode stuff, I use a huge SGI color display for all of my 
3w3 outputting systems and I just switch the cable around.  If you 
could imagine 5 or 6 systems clustered around the one display.


I am sure someone here has a technical explanation, but in a nutshell 
the 3W3 world signal isn't the same as a standard vga and cheap vga 
displays can't handle the refresh rate.  Someone will prob. refine my 
answer but that's why you can't just stick an adapter on there.


Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net 

I ran into a similar comment somewhere on the internet somewhere (it's a 
big place) that you had to make sure that the LCD monitor supported the 
H,V rates put out by the DEC video frame buffer.

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 11/18/2017 3:44 PM, william degnan via cctech wrote:

On Nov 18, 2017 4:09 PM, "Douglas Taylor via cctech" 
wrote:

I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,

Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.

The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a 15

pin DEC designed connector.

What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light

weight monitors?

Doug


I have played around with that problem.  If you have a converter to get
into a VGA port a newer high-end vga display will be able to adjust, but
not a cheap one.  Because I use my vice vga/digital display for mode stuff,
I use a huge SGI color display for all of my 3w3 outputting systems and I
just switch the cable around.  If you could imagine 5 or 6 systems
clustered around the one display.

I am sure someone here has a technical explanation, but in a nutshell the
3W3 world signal isn't the same as a standard vga and cheap vga displays
can't handle the refresh rate.  Someone will prob. refine my answer but
that's why you can't just stick an adapter on there.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
The 13w3 Sun and the like world of video is different than the three 
wire sync on green video from Dec.  There is a feature on a lot of the 
Sony displays, including the ones that Dec rebadged that supported the 
sync on green.


There is a Raritan converter for Sun keyboard and video conversion to 
PS2 and VGA that is powered off the 13W3 connector to solve the problem 
for the Sun systems.


Also note there is a monochrome option with just a single coax populated 
in the 13W3 for sun.  I'm currently getting ready to hook it up to the 
above noted converter, can report back whether it works.  FWIW the 
system is an IPC Sparc 1 mini system.


I have the DEC Sony monitor, and  a friend and I are collecting 
information to make a general DEC Vax sync on green / Pro 3xx / Rainbow 
/ Decmate board / jumper board / connector adapter for all the crap we 
have.  Output will be VGA.


Right now we've run the video to regular RS-170 monitor.  Levels weren't 
necessarily happy with direct connection but video showed up.


thanks
Jim

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Nov 18, 2017 4:09 PM, "Douglas Taylor via cctech" 
wrote:
>
> I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,
Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
>
> The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a 15
pin DEC designed connector.
>
> What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light
weight monitors?
>
> Doug
>

I have played around with that problem.  If you have a converter to get
into a VGA port a newer high-end vga display will be able to adjust, but
not a cheap one.  Because I use my vice vga/digital display for mode stuff,
I use a huge SGI color display for all of my 3w3 outputting systems and I
just switch the cable around.  If you could imagine 5 or 6 systems
clustered around the one display.

I am sure someone here has a technical explanation, but in a nutshell the
3W3 world signal isn't the same as a standard vga and cheap vga displays
can't handle the refresh rate.  Someone will prob. refine my answer but
that's why you can't just stick an adapter on there.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Lyle Bickley via cctalk]

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:44:07 -0500
william degnan via cctech  wrote:

> On Nov 18, 2017 4:09 PM, "Douglas Taylor via cctech"
>  wrote:
> >
> > I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000
> > 300,  
> Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
> >
> > The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100
> > has a 15  
> pin DEC designed connector.
> >
> > What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA
> > light  
> weight monitors?
> >
> > Doug
> >  
> 
> I have played around with that problem.  If you have a converter to
> get into a VGA port a newer high-end vga display will be able to
> adjust, but not a cheap one.  Because I use my vice vga/digital
> display for mode stuff, I use a huge SGI color display for all of my
> 3w3 outputting systems and I just switch the cable around.  If you
> could imagine 5 or 6 systems clustered around the one display.
> 
> I am sure someone here has a technical explanation, but in a nutshell
> the 3W3 world signal isn't the same as a standard vga and cheap vga
> displays can't handle the refresh rate.  Someone will prob. refine my
> answer but that's why you can't just stick an adapter on there.
> 
> Bill Degnan
> twitter: billdeg
> vintagecomputer.net

The "issue" is "Sync-on-Green". Many *NIX and DEC systems that have RGB
output do NOT use a Hsync signal - but rather sync is placed on the
"Green" channel.

If you use any monitor capable of "sync-on-green", and it should work.

Best,
Lyle


-- 
Lyle Bickley
AF6WS'73
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2017-11-18 14:09, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
> I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,
> Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
>
> The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a
> 15 pin DEC designed connector.

The 3w3 cables are actually still easy to find.
I use then, a vga-BNC cable with some adapters

> What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light
> weight monitors?

There are some brands, which support sync-on-green
(HP, Viewsonic, that's what I have)

Re: Sync on Green RGB video

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

You might be surprised how many LCD monitors support SoG. I have several
iiyama LCD panels which work fine with a 3100.

Aaron.


Douglas Taylor via cctech writes:

> I have a couple of vaxes that output 'unique' video, Alpha 3000 300,
> Alpha 3000 400, Vax 4000 VLC, and Vax Station 3100 M76.
>
> The Alpha and VLC each have a 3W3 type of connector and the 3100 has a
> 15 pin DEC designed connector.
>
> What does it take to connect these to inexpensive, modern VGA light
> weight monitors?
>
> Doug