Re: Tape reading question

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

tisdag 12 mars 2019 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk :

>
>
> On 3/11/19 10:42 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> > A few years back AJ Palmgren helped me recover data from a S8000 tape
> using
> > his hacked QIC drive.
>
> Did you ever put the tape images on line anywhere?


The image is a backup tar archive. It do contain files of more private
nature. The backup is not complete since it spans two tapes. This means it
is not of huge interest to the public. The second tape has not been
recovered.

All files extracted has been listed on the web page. In case someone is
interested I could of course clean the archive from the private files.

Re: Tape reading question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 10:42 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> A few years back AJ Palmgren helped me recover data from a S8000 tape using
> his hacked QIC drive.

Did you ever put the tape images on line anywhere?

Re: Tape reading question

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

A few years back AJ Palmgren helped me recover data from a S8000 tape using
his hacked QIC drive.  He fed the data coming off the drive into a Saleae
logic analyzer. I took the gigantic dumps and wrote a software decoder. The
data on the tape are MFM encoded. It went pretty well and I could recover
the entire tape.

http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/others/zilog-s8000/extract-s8000-tapes

So you can read these tapes by other means than the original drive. It just
requires some tinkering with the drive to get the correct tracks and some
software.

Re: Tape reading question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 5:51 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
>  > I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
>  > I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..
> 
> Was this thing referred to as a "Funnel"?  Maybe that was a Prime
> specific name though.
>

My wetware threw a parity error--the "funnel" "super funnel" "streaker"
and "serpentine funnel" were DEI terms.

hard keeping the players straight nowadays.

--Chuck

Re: Tape reading question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 5:51 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
>  > I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
>  > I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..
> 
> Was this thing referred to as a "Funnel"?  Maybe that was a Prime
> specific name though.

No, that was 3M; they had the "Funnel", the "Super Funnel" and the
"Serpentine Funnel" as well as the "Streaker".

--Chuck

Re: Tape reading question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 5:51 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
>  > I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
>  > I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..
> 
> Was this thing referred to as a "Funnel"? 

sounds familiar.

several companies made 6400 bpi four-track non-serpentine drives

DEI, Kennedy, TI, and 3M for example

I'd have to check, but I think there was an ANSI standard for the tape
format (predates the Quarter-Inch Committee).

TI used them in disk/tape combos for the 990,
DSD used Kennedy drives for the same purpose.

Re: Tape reading question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 5:19 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> I've got a 3M DCD-3 4-track drive if you're interested.

I have some Kennedy drives that should work, just have to find the time
to get to it. I'm trying to clear some 1/2" tapes off the shelves this week.

Re: Tape reading question

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

 > I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
 > I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..

Was this thing referred to as a "Funnel"?  Maybe that was a Prime
specific name though.

De

Re: Tape reading question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 10:32 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> If you open it up, it should have a DEI tape drive in it, which predates QIC
> The data coming off the tape is NRZ instead of GCR
> 
> I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
> I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..
> 
> This is a problem for a bunch of systems built in the early 80's (Zilog, 
> Onyx, etc)
> 
> I have a stack of tapes in the queue (incl an 816 tubodos tape) for me to get 
> fixed-head 4 track reading working

I've got a 3M DCD-3 4-track drive if you're interested.  It's been
sitting around for a time and comes with a rackmount Lambda PSU that I'm
certain needs recapping.

I'm not sure what the 50-conductor ribbon cable interface is, but I
suspect it's nothing standard.


--Chuck

Re: Tape reading question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 3:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> I use 4mm ID silicone vacuum hose.  Works well and requires no
> adhesive--just stretch it over the bare hub.

e.g. Something like ebay item 132808966973

I use the red stuff, but it comes in a variety of colors.  I re-did the
PVC vacuum hoses on my truck with great success a couple of years ago
and had some left over.  Thus far, I've reworked about 6 drives of
various flavors and all work.

--Chuck

Re: Tape reading question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 3/11/19 10:49 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
> Ah, interesting.
> 
> I've got a drives, but bad rollers (and one burned out EOT lamp to replace,
> which is annoying but should be easy enough).
> 
> Any suggestions on sizes for the rollers? I have one that is starting to
> go, and the other one is goo already.  I can probably guess at sizes but I
> thought I should ask first.

I use 4mm ID silicone vacuum hose.  Works well and requires no
adhesive--just stretch it over the bare hub.

--Chuck

Re: Tape reading question

[Patrick Finnegan via cctalk]

Ah, interesting.

I've got a drives, but bad rollers (and one burned out EOT lamp to replace,
which is annoying but should be easy enough).

Any suggestions on sizes for the rollers? I have one that is starting to
go, and the other one is goo already.  I can probably guess at sizes but I
thought I should ask first.

I did think it's interesting that they used a SIO/2 in the system to read
the tape.  I think I realized it was 4 track NRZI encoded from the GEI
manual, but didn't realise that (older) QIC wasn't.

Patrick Finnegan

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 13:32 Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

> If you open it up, it should have a DEI tape drive in it, which predates
> QIC
> The data coming off the tape is NRZ instead of GCR
>
> I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
> I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..
>
> This is a problem for a bunch of systems built in the early 80's (Zilog,
> Onyx, etc)
>
> I have a stack of tapes in the queue (incl an 816 tubodos tape) for me to
> get fixed-head 4 track reading working
>
>
>
> On 3/11/19 10:19 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
> > Really? They're DC300 cartridges.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/10/19 7:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > > One has the TurboDOS backup/install media for a Televideo TS-816
> that I got
> > > from Don Maslin back in the day. I think the other one is related
> too, but
> > > it was unmarked.
> > >
> >
> > TS-816 tapes aren't QIC
> >
>
>

Re: Tape reading question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

If you open it up, it should have a DEI tape drive in it, which predates QIC
The data coming off the tape is NRZ instead of GCR

I just double-checked and the drive pinouts match the DEI CMTD-3400 manual
I know, it isn't obvious at all from the maint manual..

This is a problem for a bunch of systems built in the early 80's (Zilog, Onyx, 
etc)

I have a stack of tapes in the queue (incl an 816 tubodos tape) for me to get 
fixed-head 4 track reading working



On 3/11/19 10:19 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
> Really? They're DC300 cartridges.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Al Kossow via cctalk  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/10/19 7:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > One has the TurboDOS backup/install media for a Televideo TS-816 that I 
> got
> > from Don Maslin back in the day. I think the other one is related too, 
> but
> > it was unmarked.
> >
> 
> TS-816 tapes aren't QIC
> 

Re: Tape reading question

[Patrick Finnegan via cctalk]

Really? They're DC300 cartridges.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 1:16 PM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 3/10/19 7:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
>
> > One has the TurboDOS backup/install media for a Televideo TS-816 that I
> got
> > from Don Maslin back in the day. I think the other one is related too,
> but
> > it was unmarked.
> >
>
> TS-816 tapes aren't QIC
>
>

Re: Tape reading question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 3/10/19 7:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:

> One has the TurboDOS backup/install media for a Televideo TS-816 that I got
> from Don Maslin back in the day. I think the other one is related too, but
> it was unmarked.
> 

TS-816 tapes aren't QIC