Re: SA-800/801 saga continues / schematic request
On 8/24/2015 8:21 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: On 8/23/2015 9:39 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: When I connect up drive X, the +24V series pass transistor gets very warm and the +24V drops to around +8.5V (regardless of whether or not the stepper motor leads are connected). On the circuit board, a Shugart ASIC 16270-1 gets quite hot, and is clearly dead. This chip is labeled WR/CHNL in an SA-850 schematic, and is listed in the Shugart spares catalog as IC, Write Channel. It is indeed fed from the +24V line on pin 15, and connects to the erase and center tap terminals on the head. [I have not measured the head to see if it was damaged - nope not]. I expect that if I pull that chip, the board will not overload the +24V supply. When I connect up drive Y, the +24V series pass transistor on the power supply gets very hot, but nothing on the circuit board gets hot at all, and the +24V drops to 0. The board measures as a dead short with an ohmmeter (even X shows *some* resistance). The stepper driver IC, a standard part UNL2074 (quad darlington power transistors in a 14-pin DIP no less) has a suspicious bump on its head, so I will probably start by pulling it and see what changes (I hope that is it), and if that is the issue, I will also check the voltage clamping diodes in the output circuit and the stepper windings and the 7404 that drives it to make sure it wasn't collateral damage. I expect regardless of the cause, the dead short will be not *too* difficult to find and correct. So, now the saga of the Altos power supply is fully understood. It was the second drive from the DSD-440 that actually killed it. Fortunately, the DSD-440 power supply was apparently robust enough to put up with the abuse. With a little luck, I can make one whole SA-801 out of the pair (focusing on Y since I have no source for that 16270 ASIC), and then use the mechanism of X with the board from the Altos SA-800 to make a working SA-800 for the Altos. JRJ Some GOOD NEWS for a change. I pulled the UNL2074 from drive Y, and the short remained. The next most obvious component for a dead short was actually a little 4.7uf filter capacitor - and indeed that was the culprit. The board from drive X donated its corresponding capacitor, as the odds of me fixing that board are not very good, owing to the 16270-1 Shugart ASIC. Returned the UNL2074 back into the board on Y. Erased (with a tape eraser for open reel tapes back in the 60's), formatted a floppy and tested, including interchange with the original second drive in the Altos, and all is well. Tomorrow I get to test the 2nd 801 (drive X) mechanism with the board from drive Y. I expect it will be fine as well. Then I can swap out the electronics from the original first Altos drive onto drive Y (they are plug compatible that way) to get another working drive. BTW, the replacement FD-1791B-02 (I actually tested to) did help with the hung floppy controller after errors syndrome - it happened significantly less often that with a FD-1791B-01 . JRJ Both SA-801 mechanisms tested fine (with the board from Y). So now the mechanism from X and the board from the original are in the Altos, as the second drive, and doing fine. Drive Y was restored to its original condition. The original SA-800 had its fancy new bearings swapped back for the originals, and has the bad board from X. - so three drives to make two good ones. Drive Y and the bad drive will take up residence in the Data Systems chassis for now. All four of my good drives (the original Altos SA-800, the SA-801 drive Y and the hybrid fix drive and my Siemens FD 100-8 (which says it is an FDD 120-8 on its serial number plate) also tested fine. Whew. JRJ
SA-800/801 saga continues / schematic request
Anyone out there have: 1) The Schematic for the newer SA-800/SA-701 board part number 25229.1 ? (It might also go by 25228 or 27121). The SA-800 maintenance manual on bitsavers from Feb 78 describes the original discrete board (such as I have on my Altos in the SA-800s) and an LSI-based board which is apparently earlier than the one in my SA-801 drives - the parts layout does not match the layout on these newer boards. 2) A source for Shugart ASICs, particularly 16270-1 ? And the saga to date: As you may recall, one SA-800 on my Altos was misbehaving. I decided to swap in an SA-801 I had from a Data Systems DSD-440 (a two drive cabinet with 2xSA-801, power supply, and controller intended to talk, I think to a Q-Bus controller...). Anyway, that blew the fuse on my Altos on the second track of a floppy test, but (IIRC), the Altos was not damaged. Call this drive X. I then decided to swap in the second SA-801 from the DSD-440. That also blew the fuse on the Altos, and this time the power supply was damaged. Call this drive Y (The Altos power supply has since been repaired - that saga was recorded earlier. ;) ). Replacing the bearings on the problem SA-800 did not help appreciably with its wobble problem. (The spindle shaft is still a possibility, I suppose, along with a damaged clamping frame). Today's news: Having gotten my 20+ year-old home-built floppy supply all fixed up and fused and load tested, I was still a little hesitant to apply it to either of these drives X and Y. So, I disconnected X and Y, and checked out the power supply on the Data Systems DSD-440 Except that the +5V is low, at 4.5V, the supplies seemed OK, in particular, the +24V was fine. So I tested the +24V under load, and it held 24V to 3A (and more, I am sure). When I connect up drive X, the +24V series pass transistor gets very warm and the +24V drops to around +8.5V (regardless of whether or not the stepper motor leads are connected). On the circuit board, a Shugart ASIC 16270-1 gets quite hot, and is clearly dead. This chip is labeled WR/CHNL in an SA-850 schematic, and is listed in the Shugart spares catalog as IC, Write Channel. It is indeed fed from the +24V line on pin 15, and connects to the erase and center tap terminals on the head. [I have not measured the head to see if it was damaged - nope not]. I expect that if I pull that chip, the board will not overload the +24V supply. When I connect up drive Y, the +24V series pass transistor on the power supply gets very hot, but nothing on the circuit board gets hot at all, and the +24V drops to 0. The board measures as a dead short with an ohmmeter (even X shows *some* resistance). The stepper driver IC, a standard part UNL2074 (quad darlington power transistors in a 14-pin DIP no less) has a suspicious bump on its head, so I will probably start by pulling it and see what changes (I hope that is it), and if that is the issue, I will also check the voltage clamping diodes in the output circuit and the stepper windings and the 7404 that drives it to make sure it wasn't collateral damage. I expect regardless of the cause, the dead short will be not *too* difficult to find and correct. So, now the saga of the Altos power supply is fully understood. It was the second drive from the DSD-440 that actually killed it. Fortunately, the DSD-440 power supply was apparently robust enough to put up with the abuse. With a little luck, I can make one whole SA-801 out of the pair (focusing on Y since I have no source for that 16270 ASIC), and then use the mechanism of X with the board from the Altos SA-800 to make a working SA-800 for the Altos. JRJ
