Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[william degnan via cctalk]

>
>
> 
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would
> be
> > > > very interested.
> > >
> >
> > I've been chatting to the NetBSD dev who wrote support for most of the
> > sparc framebuffers (up to and including accelerated antialiased font
> > console support where relevant), and if anyone has a spare VAXstation
> with
> > a framebuffer they would be willing to part with (*) he would be very
> > interested in writing driver support.
> >
> > (*) I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount to help find a beloved charge a
> > caring new home involving active exercise with exciting new code :-p
> >
> > David
> >
>

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 3:43 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I may have a spare VS3100 with framebuffer, I don't remember if both of
> mine are MicroVAX or if one is a VAXstation.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>

I have a spare 4000 m60 and would be happy to test the build of BSD.  I
could lend it out if that would make it easier, maybe sell or trade too.
Feel free to contact me privately via vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm.

Bill

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

I may have a spare VS3100 with framebuffer, I don't remember if both of
mine are MicroVAX or if one is a VAXstation.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:35 PM, David Brownlee via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 2 January 2018 at 21:02, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > > > Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
> > >
> > > There are a few people willing to work on graphics for old
> > > vaxstations, but there is no documentation.
> > >
> > > If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would be
> > > very interested.
> >
> >  The RAMDAC is standard, so as long as frame buffer memory is mapped into
> > the CDAL address space writing a dumb device driver should be pretty
> > straightforward with little reverse engineering effort.  And CDAL address
> > decoding is I believe documented in the KA46 board specification.
> >
> >  And all else failing you can always resort to TURBOchannel graphics
> wired
> > via a TURBOchannel adapter.  While not supported by the console monitor,
> > it can be handled by the OS just fine, and several TURBOchannel graphics
> > drivers are already available for other ports, so it's just a matter of a
> > suitable kernel configuration (with minor patching possibly, depending on
> > how cleanly written the respective drivers are).
> >
> >  I was able to get OS console output using at least the HX and one of the
> > HX+ options with my m90 and the (still very crippled and long neglected)
> > VAX/Linux port several years ago.  The MX, CX and TX options should be
> > easily supportable too.  Only accelerators (PixelStamp and PixelVision
> > architecture implementations) might cause trouble for one reason or
> > another (such as using DMA or requiring a TURBOchannel extender, which
> are
> > scarcer than hen's teeth).
> >
>
> I've been chatting to the NetBSD dev who wrote support for most of the
> sparc framebuffers (up to and including accelerated antialiased font
> console support where relevant), and if anyone has a spare VAXstation with
> a framebuffer they would be willing to part with (*) he would be very
> interested in writing driver support.
>
> (*) I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount to help find a beloved charge a
> caring new home involving active exercise with exciting new code :-p
>
> David
>

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[David Brownlee via cctalk]

On 2 January 2018 at 21:02, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
>
> > > Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
> >
> > There are a few people willing to work on graphics for old
> > vaxstations, but there is no documentation.
> >
> > If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would be
> > very interested.
>
>  The RAMDAC is standard, so as long as frame buffer memory is mapped into
> the CDAL address space writing a dumb device driver should be pretty
> straightforward with little reverse engineering effort.  And CDAL address
> decoding is I believe documented in the KA46 board specification.
>
>  And all else failing you can always resort to TURBOchannel graphics wired
> via a TURBOchannel adapter.  While not supported by the console monitor,
> it can be handled by the OS just fine, and several TURBOchannel graphics
> drivers are already available for other ports, so it's just a matter of a
> suitable kernel configuration (with minor patching possibly, depending on
> how cleanly written the respective drivers are).
>
>  I was able to get OS console output using at least the HX and one of the
> HX+ options with my m90 and the (still very crippled and long neglected)
> VAX/Linux port several years ago.  The MX, CX and TX options should be
> easily supportable too.  Only accelerators (PixelStamp and PixelVision
> architecture implementations) might cause trouble for one reason or
> another (such as using DMA or requiring a TURBOchannel extender, which are
> scarcer than hen's teeth).
>

I've been chatting to the NetBSD dev who wrote support for most of the
sparc framebuffers (up to and including accelerated antialiased font
console support where relevant), and if anyone has a spare VAXstation with
a framebuffer they would be willing to part with (*) he would be very
interested in writing driver support.

(*) I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount to help find a beloved charge a
caring new home involving active exercise with exciting new code :-p

David

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:

> > Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
> 
> There are a few people willing to work on graphics for old
> vaxstations, but there is no documentation.
> 
> If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would be
> very interested.

 The RAMDAC is standard, so as long as frame buffer memory is mapped into 
the CDAL address space writing a dumb device driver should be pretty 
straightforward with little reverse engineering effort.  And CDAL address 
decoding is I believe documented in the KA46 board specification.

 And all else failing you can always resort to TURBOchannel graphics wired 
via a TURBOchannel adapter.  While not supported by the console monitor, 
it can be handled by the OS just fine, and several TURBOchannel graphics 
drivers are already available for other ports, so it's just a matter of a 
suitable kernel configuration (with minor patching possibly, depending on 
how cleanly written the respective drivers are).

 I was able to get OS console output using at least the HX and one of the 
HX+ options with my m90 and the (still very crippled and long neglected) 
VAX/Linux port several years ago.  The MX, CX and TX options should be 
easily supportable too.  Only accelerators (PixelStamp and PixelVision 
architecture implementations) might cause trouble for one reason or 
another (such as using DMA or requiring a TURBOchannel extender, which are 
scarcer than hen's teeth).

 FWIW,

  Maciej

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Mark Wickens via cctalk]

Good luck and let us know how you get on. There was some activity on this a
good few years ago. The most recent video development is probably the
support for graphics devices in SIMH by Matt - see
http://9track.net/simh/video/

Regards, Mark.

On 20 December 2017 at 00:35, Charles Dickman via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Marco Rauhut via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > Thanks for your quick answer!
> >
> > Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
> >
> > Marco
>
> There are a few people willing to work on graphics for old
> vaxstations, but there is no documentation.
>
> If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would be
> very interested.
>
> -chuck
>

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Charles Dickman via cctalk]

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Marco Rauhut via cctalk
 wrote:
> Thanks for your quick answer!
>
> Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
>
> Marco

There are a few people willing to work on graphics for old
vaxstations, but there is no documentation.

If anyone has documentation, the netbsd vax port mailing list would be
very interested.

-chuck

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Mark Wickens via cctalk]

Don't forget however that using X remotely works fine.

On 17 December 2017 at 12:09, Marco Rauhut via cctalk  wrote:

> Thanks for your quick answer!
>
> Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> Am 17.12.2017 um 12:47 schrieb Aaron Jackson:
>
>> 1.) It is not posible to switch the console from RS232 to the VGA
>>> Monitor and Keyboard. If i switch the S3 switch in down position i can
>>> only see the NetBSD Kernel decompression. After that i see nothing on
>>> VGA and RS232 console. The System starts up anyway. After some time it
>>> is possible to connect via LAN.
>>>
>> Very few frame buffers are supported in NetBSD - you will need to check
>> the hardware support list. Even if it is supported, you will only be
>> able to use it as a text-console. To put progress into perspective, I
>> think support for hardware assisted smooth scrolling has only just been
>> added.
>>
>> 2.) Is it posible to run the NetBSD X.Org on that sort of Vaxstation? If
>>> yes... Whats to do to get that running? I Think i have to fix my point 1
>>> first.
>>>
>> NetBSD includes the libraries to run X applications, but no Xserver, so
>> you can only display graphics over the network, nothing locally.
>>
>> Hope that helps. I haven't played about with it for about a year so I
>> might have remembered some things wrong. I'm sure someone will correct
>> me if that's the case :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aaron.
>>
>
>

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Marco Rauhut via cctalk]

Thanks for your quick answer!

Hardware support say no support for LCG Graphics :-(

Marco


Am 17.12.2017 um 12:47 schrieb Aaron Jackson:

1.) It is not posible to switch the console from RS232 to the VGA
Monitor and Keyboard. If i switch the S3 switch in down position i can
only see the NetBSD Kernel decompression. After that i see nothing on
VGA and RS232 console. The System starts up anyway. After some time it
is possible to connect via LAN.

Very few frame buffers are supported in NetBSD - you will need to check
the hardware support list. Even if it is supported, you will only be
able to use it as a text-console. To put progress into perspective, I
think support for hardware assisted smooth scrolling has only just been
added.


2.) Is it posible to run the NetBSD X.Org on that sort of Vaxstation? If
yes... Whats to do to get that running? I Think i have to fix my point 1
first.

NetBSD includes the libraries to run X applications, but no Xserver, so
you can only display graphics over the network, nothing locally.

Hope that helps. I haven't played about with it for about a year so I
might have remembered some things wrong. I'm sure someone will correct
me if that's the case :)

Thanks,
Aaron.

Re: Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

> 1.) It is not posible to switch the console from RS232 to the VGA
> Monitor and Keyboard. If i switch the S3 switch in down position i can
> only see the NetBSD Kernel decompression. After that i see nothing on
> VGA and RS232 console. The System starts up anyway. After some time it
> is possible to connect via LAN.

Very few frame buffers are supported in NetBSD - you will need to check
the hardware support list. Even if it is supported, you will only be
able to use it as a text-console. To put progress into perspective, I
think support for hardware assisted smooth scrolling has only just been
added.

>
> 2.) Is it posible to run the NetBSD X.Org on that sort of Vaxstation? If
> yes... Whats to do to get that running? I Think i have to fix my point 1
> first.

NetBSD includes the libraries to run X applications, but no Xserver, so
you can only display graphics over the network, nothing locally.

Hope that helps. I haven't played about with it for about a year so I
might have remembered some things wrong. I'm sure someone will correct
me if that's the case :)

Thanks,
Aaron.

Vaxstation 4000 m60 and NetBSD

[Marco Rauhut via cctalk]

Hello List,

i playing arround with my Vaxstation 4000 60

This is a System with 40 MB Ram, 1GB Hdd, a VGA Monitor, LK201 Keyboard, 
VSXXXAA.B03 Mouse, and a external SCSI-CDROm dirve.


With OpenVMS installed on it i have the grafical DecWindows System running.

Now i have installed NetBSD 7.1 from CD via the RS232 Consoleport.

My two problems now are:

1.) It is not posible to switch the console from RS232 to the VGA 
Monitor and Keyboard. If i switch the S3 switch in down position i can 
only see the NetBSD Kernel decompression. After that i see nothing on 
VGA and RS232 console. The System starts up anyway. After some time it 
is possible to connect via LAN.


2.) Is it posible to run the NetBSD X.Org on that sort of Vaxstation? If 
yes... Whats to do to get that running? I Think i have to fix my point 1 
first.


Marco Rauhut