Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:59 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.
>
> Oooh. Dieter, maybe?


Yes.

> This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling
> is
> > the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
> > on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards
> incompatible
> > with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
> > Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
> > development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys,
> the
> > scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that
> was
> > only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
> > compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable
> a
> > few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an
> adapter,
> > though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
> > on bitkeepers to make an adapter.
>
> Well, that's good to know. I'll update that section if you can get the
> name as the source (since most of the available documentation says
> different).
>

Right. I'm unsure. He's a solid enough for me to try it, but without
confirmation, I'm not sure changing the docs is a wise idea.

Warner

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.

Oooh. Dieter, maybe?

> This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling is
> the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
> on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards incompatible
> with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
> Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
> development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys, the
> scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that was
> only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
> compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable a
> few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an adapter,
> though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
> on bitkeepers to make an adapter.

Well, that's good to know. I'll update that section if you can get the
name as the source (since most of the available documentation says
different).

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- .signature violation (core dumped) -

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:58 AM, Alan Perry  wrote:

>
> You are correct. I misremembered this section from
> https://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/solace/
>
> Why don't Sun keyboards work? What about mice? None of the Sun keyboards
> will work with the Solbourne and vice versa. At best they won't work; at
> worst you might short something, depending on the model. In addition to
> different signaling, the Solbourne keyboards have different scan codes and
> earlier ones have more keys as well.
>
> The Sun-3 optical mouse (with the RJ-11 plug) can connect to the "Cherry"
> Solbourne 102691 keyboard and will work, but needs adjustment
>  due
> to the lower resolution.
>
>
I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.

This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling is
the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards incompatible
with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys, the
scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that was
only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable a
few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an adapter,
though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
on bitkeepers to make an adapter.

I went looking for special keyboard maps for the Solbourne, and all I found
was Tom LaStrange's name in twm from the updates he did while working at
Solbroune, so maybe my friend is right. I'd have expected to find that they
would have been in X11R4 or X11R5, but no dice. The CG30 card was a simple
clone of sun's cg3 dumb frame buffer. The graphics card had to be 100% code
compatible with Sun, so it would be odd to have different. I also couldn't
find anything in my .x* files, even though I had OI specific resources I
deleted in 2010...

He confirmed the mouse thing was 100% correct. He used that setup for
several years. Though I was incorrect: he gave all his Solbourne stuff to a
local computer museum that seems to have disappeared...

Warner

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:40 AM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > Does the S4100 support a serial console?
>
> Yes, it should. I forget how to set this up because mine weren't headless,
> but they do.


The boot roms are basically from the same sources... but I think that you
may need a monitor and keyboard to set that up...

Warner

>
>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> Does the S4100 support a serial console?

Yes, it should. I forget how to set this up because mine weren't headless,
but they do.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- It's tradition, that makes it okay. -- Weird Al, "Weasel Stomping Day" -

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Rico Pajarola via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However,
> they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.
>

I bought one from said recycler a while ago, have been looking for a
suitable keyboard/mouse ever since.

It's a very nice machine, and interesting in that it is not just a carbon
copy of a Sun machine like most other clones.



>
> alan
>
> > On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> > the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
>
>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 8:54 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
> 
> 
>  Somewhere I have the field service manual from when I worked there...
> 
> Warner
> 

If it's different from what I have on bitsavers, i'd like to scan it.

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 8:54 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:46 AM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:



On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:

they need a special mouse and keyboard

You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the
keyboard.


You do need a serial port for that. On boot, the boot roms print both
places, though you may need to pull the color graphics card if the defaults
have been changed.

If you buy one, let me know. Somewhere I have the field service manual from
when I worked there...


Would it cover the S4100? I have wanting to get one just for the 
Panasonic SPARC processor.


Does the S4100 support a serial console?

alan

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

You are correct. I misremembered this section from 
https://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/solace/



  Why don't Sun keyboards work? What about mice?

None of the Sun keyboards will work with the Solbourne and vice versa. 
At best they won't work; at worst you might short something, depending 
on the model. In addition to different signaling, the Solbourne 
keyboards have different scan codes and earlier ones have more keys as 
well.


The Sun-3 optical mouse (with the RJ-11 plug) can connect to the 
"Cherry" Solbourne 102691 keyboard and will work, butneeds adjustment 
due 
to the lower resolution.





On 5/23/18 8:46 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
Iorc, the mice are sun compatable,  but that may just be for the IDT 
workstation. I have a recollection that they are also compatable with 
the Series 4, 5 and 5e I/O boards. I know a guy that I used to work 
with there that will know for sure. I'll ask him. He still has a 
series 5e in service...


Warner

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:51 AM Alan Perry via cctalk 
> wrote:


There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay.
However, they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller
has none.

alan

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:46 AM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> > they need a special mouse and keyboard
>
> You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the
> keyboard.
>

You do need a serial port for that. On boot, the boot roms print both
places, though you may need to pull the color graphics card if the defaults
have been changed.

If you buy one, let me know. Somewhere I have the field service manual from
when I worked there...

Warner

>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> they need a special mouse and keyboard

You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the keyboard.

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

Iorc, the mice are sun compatable,  but that may just be for the IDT
workstation. I have a recollection that they are also compatable with the
Series 4, 5 and 5e I/O boards. I know a guy that I used to work with there
that will know for sure. I'll ask him. He still has a series 5e in
service...

Warner

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:51 AM Alan Perry via cctalk 
wrote:

> There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However,
> they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.
>
> alan
>
> > On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> > the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
>
>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However, they 
need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.

alan 

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin

WTB: Solbourne computer

[Kevin Bowling via cctalk]

Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.

Regards,
Kevin