Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Antonis Tsolomitis]

  
  

  No. Alt-Tab or Alt-Esc do not work on stable, although my dtwmrc
  contains:
  
      AltTab            root|icon|window    f.next_key
      Alt ShiftTab        root|icon|window    f.prev_key
      AltEscape        root|icon|window    f.next_key
      Alt ShiftEscape    root|icon|window    f.prev_key
  
   I do not know if there is a conflict with other settings
  (for example I use "focus follows mouse")
  
  However, Alt-Down and Alt-Up work where these are set as 
  f.circle_down
  f.circle_up
  
  and these rotate the windows.
  So this is not so bad, I will do my job.
  
  However, I also think that a windows list either in a menu (middle
  click) or in a tray
  similar to iconbox would be very useful since it will be faster to
  find the window you need
  than rotate them.
  
  Yes..., xmpager similar to Triteal CDE would be great too.
  
  Thanks everyone,
  
  Antonis.
  
  
  
  
  On 15/06/2018 01:33 πμ, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:


  


  
On Jun 14, 2018, at 18:10, Matthew R. Trower  wrote:

‎However, even though I said that... neither alt-esc nor alt-tab are curr‎ently working for me (though the underlying functionality works when accessed from a menu, and other keybinds work fine as well). They have worked in the past. This could be a result of my private tree, or of something that's changed in master at some point. I haven't been able to bisect yet.

If it‎ is broken for Antonis, or anyone else, I'd very much like to know.
  Original Message
From: Jon Trulson
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 15:24
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

Oh, good point. I didn't read the last sentence. ALT-TAB should work...
-jon

On 06/14/2018 01:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:


  ‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by default. Do they not work for you?

Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other interesting keybinds.
  Original Message
From: Antonis Tsolomitis
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list


Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are
open
covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.

CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or
does it?

Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other
solution?
For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you
can choose.


  
  

Using grep on my dtwmrc file (Sun CDE, on Solaris 9, in this case), I find
AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltF6  window  f.next_key transient
Alt ShiftF6window  f.prev_key transient
AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltF6  window  f.next_key transient

In other words, it's ultimately variations on f.next_key and f.prev_key dtwm commands that do the job, and the keys used can be defined as one wishes (subject to possible  complications with some keyboards and X servers as to what constitutes Alt, etc).

A dtwmrc(4) man page (at least in Sun CDE) describes the various f. window manager command.  While normally they can only appear in a window manager configuration file (save that dtstyle sends a command to the window manager to restart it, when needed), there is a protocol for sending f. commands to dtwm, and I have a C program that uses my reverse engineering of it (via xscope, I think) that I wrote a long time ago.  Given the source of one of the shared libraries whose interfaces are not documented, it may be possible to rewrite the program to do it that way...but it does work, regardless.  Source for my program is at http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil/goodies/dtwmcmd.c

So one could step through windows, or workspaces even (there was once someone that wanted to do that, I gather for a system with various status displays in separate workstations, using a large display or projector) programatically.

My notes indicate at least two f. commands not documented in dtwmrc(4):
f.change_backdrop   appears to require pathname of pixmap file as
   an argument

f.set_context   appears to require one numeric argument,
probably a wind

Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] nsgmls symbol collision on illumos/OpenIndiana

[Matthew R. Trower]

Jon Trulson  writes:

> I can add this, but for safety/clarity, can you change the comparison from:
>
> #if __SUNPRO_CC == 0x5100
>
> to
>
> #if defined(__SUNPRO_CC) && __SUNPRO_CC == 0x5100
>
> This is a little clearer and won't emit warnings under -Wundef on
> non-studio c compilers...

Certainly!


-- Matthew R. Trower

>From f1885df8e56ec40d3b7bac1cd04e8414fdd291ee Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: "Matthew R. Trower" 
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 22:16:14 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] nsgml: Resolve symbol collision when building with SunStudio
 12.1

---
 cde/programs/nsgmls/Ptr.h | 7 +++
 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+)

diff --git a/cde/programs/nsgmls/Ptr.h b/cde/programs/nsgmls/Ptr.h
index d8f2970a..24baf063 100644
--- a/cde/programs/nsgmls/Ptr.h
+++ b/cde/programs/nsgmls/Ptr.h
@@ -93,7 +93,14 @@ public:
   const T &operator*() const { return *Ptr::pointer(); }
   void swap(ConstPtr &p) { Ptr::swap(p); }
   using Ptr::isNull;
+
+#if defined(__SUNPRO_CC) && __SUNPRO_CC == 0x5100
+  /* Needed to avoid symbol export collision */
+  void clear() { Ptr::clear(); }
+#else
   using Ptr::clear;
+#endif
+
   Boolean operator==(const Ptr &p) const { return Ptr::operator==(p); }
   Boolean operator!=(const Ptr &p) const { return Ptr::operator!=(p); }
   Boolean operator==(const ConstPtr &p) const {
-- 
2.16.2

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Matthew R. Trower]

  ‎For some reason, I thought we already had a window list (something textual and basic, like most traditional WMS seem to have). Well, I'll investigate it as an option for cde-next, after we get this release out. I've been wanting to address window management for some time.From: Richard L. HamiltonSent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 19:22To: Christopher TurkelCc: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.netSubject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows listOn Jun 14, 2018, at 20:12, Christopher Turkel  wrote:I'd like a window list option, maybe a middle mouse button click.There isn't a graphical one in basic CDE.  And it would be a lot of work, probably.  TriTeal and later Sun CDE had graphic workspace management tools, and at least the latter had something that would give a textual list of windows and I think allow selecting them.Similar to the latter is http://web.archive.org/web/20090210060252/http://levana.de/findwindow/find_window.shtml

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Richard L. Hamilton]

> On Jun 14, 2018, at 20:12, Christopher Turkel  
> wrote:
> 
> I'd like a window list option, maybe a middle mouse button click.

There isn't a graphical one in basic CDE.  And it would be a lot of work, 
probably.  TriTeal and later Sun CDE had graphic workspace management tools, 
and at least the latter had something that would give a textual list of windows 
and I think allow selecting them.

Similar to the latter is 
http://web.archive.org/web/20090210060252/http://levana.de/findwindow/find_window.shtml
 





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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Christopher Turkel]

I'd like a window list option, maybe a middle mouse button click.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 6:58 PM Richard L. Hamilton 
wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 14, 2018, at 18:10, Matthew R. Trower  wrote:
> >
> > ‎However, even though I said that... neither alt-esc nor alt-tab are
> curr‎ently working for me (though the underlying functionality works when
> accessed from a menu, and other keybinds work fine as well). They have
> worked in the past. This could be a result of my private tree, or of
> something that's changed in master at some point. I haven't been able to
> bisect yet.
> >
> > If it‎ is broken for Antonis, or anyone else, I'd very much like to know.
> >   Original Message
> > From: Jon Trulson
> > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 15:24
> > To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list
> >
> > Oh, good point. I didn't read the last sentence. ALT-TAB should work...
> > -jon
> >
> > On 06/14/2018 01:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
> >> ‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by
> default. Do they not work for you?
> >>
> >> Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other
> interesting keybinds.
> >>   Original Message
> >> From: Antonis Tsolomitis
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
> >> To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list
> >>
> >>
> >> Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are
> >> open
> >> covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.
> >>
> >> CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or
> >> does it?
> >>
> >> Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other
> >> solution?
> >> For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you
> >> can choose.
>
>
> Using grep on my dtwmrc file (Sun CDE, on Solaris 9, in this case), I find
> AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
> Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
> AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
> Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
> AltF6  window  f.next_key
> transient
> Alt ShiftF6window  f.prev_key
> transient
> AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
> Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
> AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
> Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
> AltF6  window  f.next_key
> transient
>
> In other words, it's ultimately variations on f.next_key and f.prev_key
> dtwm commands that do the job, and the keys used can be defined as one
> wishes (subject to possible  complications with some keyboards and X
> servers as to what constitutes Alt, etc).
>
> A dtwmrc(4) man page (at least in Sun CDE) describes the various f. window
> manager command.  While normally they can only appear in a window manager
> configuration file (save that dtstyle sends a command to the window manager
> to restart it, when needed), there is a protocol for sending f. commands to
> dtwm, and I have a C program that uses my reverse engineering of it (via
> xscope, I think) that I wrote a long time ago.  Given the source of one of
> the shared libraries whose interfaces are not documented, it may be
> possible to rewrite the program to do it that way...but it does work,
> regardless.  Source for my program is at
> http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil/goodies/dtwmcmd.c
>
> So one could step through windows, or workspaces even (there was once
> someone that wanted to do that, I gather for a system with various status
> displays in separate workstations, using a large display or projector)
> programatically.
>
> My notes indicate at least two f. commands not documented in dtwmrc(4):
> f.change_backdrop   appears to require pathname of pixmap file as
>an argument
>
> f.set_context   appears to require one numeric argument,
> probably a window number (as shown by xlswins
> or xwininfo -tree -root) WARNING: has been
> observed to crash dtwm when given without
> valid argument
>
>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Richard L. Hamilton]

> On Jun 14, 2018, at 18:10, Matthew R. Trower  wrote:
> 
> ‎However, even though I said that... neither alt-esc nor alt-tab are 
> curr‎ently working for me (though the underlying functionality works when 
> accessed from a menu, and other keybinds work fine as well). They have worked 
> in the past. This could be a result of my private tree, or of something 
> that's changed in master at some point. I haven't been able to bisect yet.
> 
> If it‎ is broken for Antonis, or anyone else, I'd very much like to know.
>   Original Message
> From: Jon Trulson
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 15:24
> To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list
> 
> Oh, good point. I didn't read the last sentence. ALT-TAB should work...
> -jon
> 
> On 06/14/2018 01:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
>> ‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by default. 
>> Do they not work for you?
>> 
>> Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other 
>> interesting keybinds.
>>   Original Message
>> From: Antonis Tsolomitis
>> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
>> To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list
>> 
>> 
>> Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are
>> open
>> covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.
>> 
>> CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or
>> does it?
>> 
>> Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other
>> solution?
>> For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you
>> can choose.


Using grep on my dtwmrc file (Sun CDE, on Solaris 9, in this case), I find
AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltF6  window  f.next_key transient
Alt ShiftF6window  f.prev_key transient
AltTab root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftTab   root|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltEscape  root|icon|windowf.next_key
Alt ShiftEscaperoot|icon|windowf.prev_key
AltF6  window  f.next_key transient

In other words, it's ultimately variations on f.next_key and f.prev_key dtwm 
commands that do the job, and the keys used can be defined as one wishes 
(subject to possible  complications with some keyboards and X servers as to 
what constitutes Alt, etc).

A dtwmrc(4) man page (at least in Sun CDE) describes the various f. window 
manager command.  While normally they can only appear in a window manager 
configuration file (save that dtstyle sends a command to the window manager to 
restart it, when needed), there is a protocol for sending f. commands to dtwm, 
and I have a C program that uses my reverse engineering of it (via xscope, I 
think) that I wrote a long time ago.  Given the source of one of the shared 
libraries whose interfaces are not documented, it may be possible to rewrite 
the program to do it that way...but it does work, regardless.  Source for my 
program is at http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil/goodies/dtwmcmd.c

So one could step through windows, or workspaces even (there was once someone 
that wanted to do that, I gather for a system with various status displays in 
separate workstations, using a large display or projector) programatically.

My notes indicate at least two f. commands not documented in dtwmrc(4):
f.change_backdrop   appears to require pathname of pixmap file as
   an argument

f.set_context   appears to require one numeric argument,
probably a window number (as shown by xlswins
or xwininfo -tree -root) WARNING: has been
observed to crash dtwm when given without
valid argument




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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Matthew R. Trower]

‎However, even though I said that... neither alt-esc nor alt-tab are curr‎ently 
working for me (though the underlying functionality works when accessed from a 
menu, and other keybinds work fine as well). They have worked in the past. This 
could be a result of my private tree, or of something that's changed in master 
at some point. I haven't been able to bisect yet.

If it‎ is broken for Antonis, or anyone else, I'd very much like to know.
  Original Message  
From: Jon Trulson
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 15:24
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

Oh, good point. I didn't read the last sentence. ALT-TAB should work...
-jon

On 06/14/2018 01:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
> ‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by default. 
> Do they not work for you?
> 
> Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other interesting 
> keybinds.
>   Original Message
> From: Antonis Tsolomitis
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
> To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list
> 
> 
> Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are
> open
> covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.
> 
> CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or
> does it?
> 
> Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other
> solution?
> For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you
> can choose.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Antonis.
> 
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> 

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"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle."

- Zapp Brannigan

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Jon Trulson]

Oh, good point.  I didn't read the last sentence.  ALT-TAB should work...
-jon

On 06/14/2018 01:34 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:

‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by default. Do 
they not work for you?

Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other interesting 
keybinds.
   Original Message
From: Antonis Tsolomitis
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list


Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are
open
covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.

CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or
does it?

Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other
solution?
For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you
can choose.

Thanks,

Antonis.


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  - Zapp Brannigan

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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Matthew R. Trower]

‎This functionality should be bound to either alt+tab or alt+esc by default. Do 
they not work for you?

Have a look through programs/dtwm/WmResource.c sometime for other interesting 
keybinds.
  Original Message  
From: Antonis Tsolomitis
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 05:31
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list


Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are 
open
covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.

CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or 
does it?

Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other 
solution?
For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you 
can choose.

Thanks,

Antonis.


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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Jon Trulson]

I could swear there was a program called xmpager that could display 
graphically the windows (like the Triteal version of CDE's front panel), 
but I can seem to find it with google.  Perhaps I am not remembering the 
name correctly.


-jon

On 06/14/2018 04:31 AM, Antonis Tsolomitis wrote:


Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are 
open

covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.

CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or 
does it?


Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other 
solution?
For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you 
can choose.


Thanks,

Antonis.


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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] nsgmls symbol collision on illumos/OpenIndiana

[Jon Trulson]

On 06/13/2018 09:45 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote:

d...@blackshard.net (Matthew R. Trower) writes:


I'll try to set up an environment with 12.3 tomorrow, and see what
happens.




Alright, so...

SolarisStudio12.3 compiles this fine.  SunStudio12.1 encounters the
problem.  It seems to me this is probably a compiler bug, then.

However...

Political reasons aside, SunStudio is available in-repo, from
OpenSolaris through latest OpenIndiana Hipster, with no Oracle account
required, no signed repos, no hassling with web downloads, etc... It's
there, and it won't be updated.  Seeing as it's just this one line of
code preventing a clean build, I'd really like to maintain support for
this version.

Jon, would you be willing to apply either my previous one-liner (which
Ulrich confirmed works fine for him), or the patch I've attached here
(which just wraps that one-liner to only compile on SunStudio 12.1, and
explains it so no one unwittingly reverts it)?



I can add this, but for safety/clarity, can you change the comparison from:

#if __SUNPRO_CC == 0x5100

to

#if defined(__SUNPRO_CC) && __SUNPRO_CC == 0x5100

This is a little clearer and won't emit warnings under -Wundef on 
non-studio c compilers...


-jon



-- Matthew R. Trower



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  - Zapp Brannigan

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[cdesktopenv-devel] question about windows list

[Antonis Tsolomitis]

Many times I find myself in a difficult situation where many windows are 
open

covering each other and have trouble bringing forward the one I want.

CDE does not seem to have a utility for finding the window you want. Or 
does it?


Is there any standalone maybe application for such a task ? Or any other 
solution?
For example on more common desktops alt+tab rotates the windows and you 
can choose.


Thanks,

Antonis.


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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Moving to MIT license

[Antonis Tsolomitis]

  
  


On 14/06/2018 12:55 μμ, Matthew R.
  Trower wrote:


  You seem to hold developers in low regard. Please consider: what happens to a project with no developers?



Of course not. I have developed many things in the TeX world and of
course I am grateful to
Jon and others who worked hard to free CDE and make it work.

So on the contrary, I am grateful to developers. I am just afraid
that a wrong turn will 
hurt again CDE. That is all.

And what about users? I have proof for the other direction.
I have paid for CDE and
as a user I was treated with disrespect.*

Someone must think of the users too. Not only the developers.

Antonis.


*The only useful thing about that buy was the book it came with the
CD which I now use
with the LGPL CDE.
  


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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Moving to MIT license

[Matthew R. Trower]

Antonis...

Bluntly, I'm not interested in getting into a full-fledged political argument 
with you (or anyone on this list). But I will say a few things...

You seem to hold developers in low regard. Please consider: what happens to a 
project with no developers?

I have said nothing against the developers of KDE, etc. There are many fine 
GPL/copyleft projects (if that is what you're getting at); Emacs is a sterling 
example.

When CDE was commercial, *copyright holders* had full freedom --- corporate 
entities such as IBM, HP, etc. The actual developers ‎were bound just as much 
by proprietary licensing as end users were‎.

The MIT license is very short. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand it‎; 
you can just read it (that's one of its advantages). It certainly does not 
prohibit binary distribution.

Permitting binary-only distribution (and redistribution!) does not necessarily 
mean you will be denied source code.  FreeBSD is BSD licensed. This project has 
been very successful, and full source code is freely available. X-Windows is 
MIT licensed, and can be distributed binary-only (but you still use X, right?). 
You say you trust in the FSF; the FSF agrees that many of these permissive 
licenses qualify as free software licenses.

If CDE moves to MIT or BSD, the SourceForge repo isn't going to disappear. 
Nobody is trying to take away your source code.

  Original Message  
From: Antonis Tsolomitis
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 04:24
To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Moving to MIT license



On 14/06/2018 09:23 πμ, Matthew R. Trower wrote:
> Antonis Tsolomitis  writes:
>
>> And what people mean by "LGPL is restrictive" ? Restrictive for who?
> For any developer touching the code.

Exactly. So when someone says "restrictive" it makes no sense. S/he must say
"restrictive to the developer and permissive to the user".

GPL is not restrictive to the user. And by the way, Gnome, KDE etc 
developers
what are they? different species?

Moreover, when CDE was commercial, developers of CDE had full freedom. 
Did you see
the project survive or progress ? It was trapped to extinction.
I remember... I bought it and never used it because
it was unusable on the next RedHat release.

I am not a lawyer either. So I have learned a simple thing. To trust FSF 
more than anything else
on such issues.

And I dislike binary distribution without the source code and the right 
to further modify it.
If for example (I am not sure), MIT allows "binary only" distribution 
without releasing the source code
and the right to modify, I am against it.

Antonis.



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Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Moving to MIT license

[Antonis Tsolomitis]

On 14/06/2018 09:23 πμ, Matthew R. Trower wrote:

Antonis Tsolomitis  writes:


And what people mean by "LGPL is restrictive" ? Restrictive for who?

For any developer touching the code.


Exactly. So when someone says "restrictive" it makes no sense. S/he must say
"restrictive to the developer and permissive to the user".

GPL is not restrictive to the user. And by the way, Gnome, KDE etc 
developers

what are they? different species?

Moreover, when CDE was commercial, developers of CDE had full freedom. 
Did you see

the project survive or progress ? It was trapped to extinction.
I remember... I bought it and never used it because
it was unusable on the next RedHat release.

I am not a lawyer either. So I have learned a simple thing. To trust FSF 
more than anything else

on such issues.

And I dislike binary distribution without the source code and the right 
to further modify it.
If for example (I am not sure), MIT allows "binary only" distribution 
without releasing the source code

and the right to modify, I am against it.

Antonis.



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