Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
This seems like it's going in circles. I'm not really sure why anyone would want to contact us personally with something they didn't want to send to the list. Thinking about this more we should probably try: 1) cellml-discussion@cellml.org 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - for specific enquiries that you don't want publicly available. It would make sense to have a nominated person or persons that address mail in there - James I would think - who decides if an email should be forwarded to the list because it really is a public issue - or respond and acknowledge the email and seek a response from those in the team that it seems appropriate to. 3) a team page where everyone who is on the team-cellml list has a picture and a small blurb (kind of like http://sbml.org/contacts/) ... which is really just to give a face to those who are quite deeply involved. I would imagine people like Penny Noble to be on that. If someone contacts someone on that page then it will likely be quite personal. On 6/25/07, Andrew Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Brooks wrote: See below... On 25/06/2007 4:32 p.m., Andrew Miller wrote: James Lawson wrote: Andrew Miller wrote: I don't think we should use the word 'project team' because there is no formal project team. Perhaps we can just have a list of people categorised by their interest in the CellML project, and then a contact page which helps people find certain people (for example, we could have a category for technical issues with cellml.org, which would list Tommy, a category for people with the ability to curate cardiac electrophysiology models, which would list James, and a category for people with an interest in cardiac electrophysiological modelling, which would list anyone who wanted to be on the list). There is then the issue of whether we use our own email addresses or @cellml.org addresses. Andre is keen on the latter, and I agree. Although I am not entirely convinced that it is necessary or beneficial, and I think that we risk harming the community nature of CellML by saying that only certain people can get a cellml.org e-mail address. Surely there's no harm in having a small number of generic @cellml.org email addresses that reflect the roles people play? (eg [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]). I don't think it's a good idea to have lots of these addresses (as this can get confusing), nor should the roles be too specialised. We have tried this in the past, and it resulted in the fragmentation of the community, and it had several negative outcomes: 1) People were sending all messages of a given type to the aliases, instead of to the list. However, because these aliases were closed mailing lists with generally out of date membership, mails sent to the lists were essentially getting forgotten about when there were people on the main list who could have answered the message. 2) There was no archive so there was no way to tell if a question was answered. 3) People often referred to e-mails sent to these lists at the CellML meetings, but it was hard to tell what they were talking about because only some people at the meeting got the messages. 4) Because the aliases were open, they got a lot of spam, which made it hard to see the signal over the noise. 5) Because the traffic was fragmented, it looked to anyone looking at the cellml-discussion archives like there was nothing happening with the CellML project. As a result of this, we decided over a year ago to get rid of info, tools and other lists like that and consolidate them all into cellml-discussion. I don't really think we want to go back to the way it was before without addressing all the problems it caused last time. Best regards, Andrew Regards, Dave ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
Matt wrote: On 6/25/07, David Nickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt wrote: This seems like it's going in circles. I'm not really sure why anyone would want to contact us personally with something they didn't want to send to the list. Thinking about this more we should probably try: 1) cellml-discussion@cellml.org 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - for specific enquiries that you don't want publicly available. It would make sense to have a nominated person or persons that address mail in there - James I would think - who decides if an email should be forwarded to the list because it really is a public issue - or respond and acknowledge the email and seek a response from those in the team that it seems appropriate to. for all the same reasons why we dropped [EMAIL PROTECTED], I can't see this being a good idea. Right. But I don't see any other resolution given the current circles. I think 'team' is a little more focussed than 'info'. I just vote to give it a try with James managing it actively and see how it goes. but if we go with 3 below why do we still need a [EMAIL PROTECTED] at all? 3) a team page where everyone who is on the team-cellml list has a picture and a small blurb (kind of like http://sbml.org/contacts/) ... which is really just to give a face to those who are quite deeply involved. I would imagine people like Penny Noble to be on that. If someone contacts someone on that page then it will likely be quite personal. this is exactly what we were originally discussing and the SBML page is what I thought we'd be working the cellml.org/team page into. good ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion -- David Nickerson, PhD Research Fellow Division of Bioengineering Faculty of Engineering National University of Singapore Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
On 6/25/07, David Nickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt wrote: On 6/25/07, David Nickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt wrote: This seems like it's going in circles. I'm not really sure why anyone would want to contact us personally with something they didn't want to send to the list. Thinking about this more we should probably try: 1) cellml-discussion@cellml.org 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - for specific enquiries that you don't want publicly available. It would make sense to have a nominated person or persons that address mail in there - James I would think - who decides if an email should be forwarded to the list because it really is a public issue - or respond and acknowledge the email and seek a response from those in the team that it seems appropriate to. for all the same reasons why we dropped [EMAIL PROTECTED], I can't see this being a good idea. Right. But I don't see any other resolution given the current circles. I think 'team' is a little more focussed than 'info'. I just vote to give it a try with James managing it actively and see how it goes. but if we go with 3 below why do we still need a [EMAIL PROTECTED] at all? a catchall for the whole team for example, I don't really know who I would want to bother personally if I had a personal problem with the sbml site or wanted to invite the team to a conference, or was rejected from the mailing list, etx; I would just use the Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] link they have at the top of the team page. 3) a team page where everyone who is on the team-cellml list has a picture and a small blurb (kind of like http://sbml.org/contacts/) ... which is really just to give a face to those who are quite deeply involved. I would imagine people like Penny Noble to be on that. If someone contacts someone on that page then it will likely be quite personal. this is exactly what we were originally discussing and the SBML page is what I thought we'd be working the cellml.org/team page into. good ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion -- David Nickerson, PhD Research Fellow Division of Bioengineering Faculty of Engineering National University of Singapore Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
Matt wrote: This seems like it's going in circles. I'm not really sure why anyone would want to contact us personally with something they didn't want to send to the list. Thinking about this more we should probably try: 1) cellml-discussion@cellml.org 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - for specific enquiries that you don't want publicly available. It would make sense to have a nominated person or persons that address mail in there - James I would think - who decides if an email should be forwarded to the list because it really is a public issue - or respond and acknowledge the email and seek a response from those in the team that it seems appropriate to. for all the same reasons why we dropped [EMAIL PROTECTED], I can't see this being a good idea. 3) a team page where everyone who is on the team-cellml list has a picture and a small blurb (kind of like http://sbml.org/contacts/) ... which is really just to give a face to those who are quite deeply involved. I would imagine people like Penny Noble to be on that. If someone contacts someone on that page then it will likely be quite personal. this is exactly what we were originally discussing and the SBML page is what I thought we'd be working the cellml.org/team page into. ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
Matt wrote: This seems like it's going in circles. I'm not really sure why anyone would want to contact us personally with something they didn't want to send to the list. Wasn't this originally your suggestion? Thinking about this more we should probably try: 1) cellml-discussion@cellml.org 2) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - for specific enquiries that you don't want publicly available. It would make sense to have a nominated person or persons that address mail in there - James I would think - who decides if an email should be forwarded to the list because it really is a public issue - or respond and acknowledge the email and seek a response from those in the team that it seems appropriate to. 3) a team page where everyone who is on the team-cellml list has a picture and a small blurb (kind of like http://sbml.org/contacts/) ... which is really just to give a face to those who are quite deeply involved. I would imagine people like Penny Noble to be on that. If someone contacts someone on that page then it will likely be quite personal. On 6/25/07, Andrew Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Brooks wrote: See below... On 25/06/2007 4:32 p.m., Andrew Miller wrote: James Lawson wrote: Andrew Miller wrote: I don't think we should use the word 'project team' because there is no formal project team. Perhaps we can just have a list of people categorised by their interest in the CellML project, and then a contact page which helps people find certain people (for example, we could have a category for technical issues with cellml.org, which would list Tommy, a category for people with the ability to curate cardiac electrophysiology models, which would list James, and a category for people with an interest in cardiac electrophysiological modelling, which would list anyone who wanted to be on the list). There is then the issue of whether we use our own email addresses or @cellml.org addresses. Andre is keen on the latter, and I agree. Although I am not entirely convinced that it is necessary or beneficial, and I think that we risk harming the community nature of CellML by saying that only certain people can get a cellml.org e-mail address. Surely there's no harm in having a small number of generic @cellml.org email addresses that reflect the roles people play? (eg [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]). I don't think it's a good idea to have lots of these addresses (as this can get confusing), nor should the roles be too specialised. We have tried this in the past, and it resulted in the fragmentation of the community, and it had several negative outcomes: 1) People were sending all messages of a given type to the aliases, instead of to the list. However, because these aliases were closed mailing lists with generally out of date membership, mails sent to the lists were essentially getting forgotten about when there were people on the main list who could have answered the message. 2) There was no archive so there was no way to tell if a question was answered. 3) People often referred to e-mails sent to these lists at the CellML meetings, but it was hard to tell what they were talking about because only some people at the meeting got the messages. 4) Because the aliases were open, they got a lot of spam, which made it hard to see the signal over the noise. 5) Because the traffic was fragmented, it looked to anyone looking at the cellml-discussion archives like there was nothing happening with the CellML project. As a result of this, we decided over a year ago to get rid of info, tools and other lists like that and consolidate them all into cellml-discussion. I don't really think we want to go back to the way it was before without addressing all the problems it caused last time. Best regards, Andrew Regards, Dave ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
In terms of the policy for allocating addresses, we don't want to become a free e-mail redirection host for anyone on the Internet, but I think as long as someone at least has some connection with CellML, they should be allowed an alias (subject to review of what that alias is to ensure it is unlikely to cause confusion or conflict with future lists / aliases we might want to assign). I suggest that we simply give an @cellml.org alias to anyone who asks for one and has a demonstrated interest of some kind in the CellML project (whether they are a modeller using CellML, a tool developer, or interested in some of the theoretical or mathematical aspects of CellML). Simply providing a form to fill out providing details to list, and having someone briefly review them should be sufficient to keep out people who just want the e-mail alias. While I am unsure how much interest or usefulness there is in providing such a service, I guess I have no problems with this suggestion. Although it will require input from the Auckland IT team as to what is required to implement such a service for a larger group than the core management team as we were originally discussing. I don't think we are talking about a very large group of people (there are currently 74 people on the mailing list, and I expect the majority of them wouldn't want to be listed as being contacted). As long as we ask that the alias only be used for CellML-related discussion, I don't see the volume of mail getting out of hand. The first problem with the idea of restricting this to the core management team is that there isn't one, and deciding on one is going to be inherently problematic. The second problem is that even if there was a core management team, they would primarily deal with the maintenance of the CellML specification and the cellml.org website, and not necessarily domain specific aspects of creating CellML models. The proposal to provide people a way to contact each other off-list would probably need to include people who actually create models of various types to be useful, and these people wouldn't be on the core management team. This is really going away from the original intention of this proposal. The idea was to simply provide contact details for the core project members on the Project Team page at cellml.org so that people have some way to contact the project if they preferred (for whatever reason) not to subscribe and send mail to the cellml-discussion list, or if someone has a private idea they would like to discuss with the core project team. The idea of using @cellml.org aliases for this purpose meant that when someone (like James or Catherine) were unlikely to be checking their email, we could ensure the aliases were at least redirected to another person who might be able to help. Following what you are outlining above, I really see no need for @cellml.org aliases. Given this, why not simply make the subscribers list for cellml-discussion visible? assuming there is some way for subscribers to still say keep me private... Having said that, I still see value in the original proposal. ___ cellml-discussion mailing list cellml-discussion@cellml.org http://www.cellml.org/mailman/listinfo/cellml-discussion
Re: [cellml-discussion] [team-cellml] @cellml.org addresses
Andrew Miller wrote: James Lawson wrote: David Nickerson wrote: I see the project team is being the core management team for the CellML project - essentially the group that should be making the decisions when consensus can't be reached and setting the goals for the future of the CellML project. Although I'm really not too sure who would be included in such a group. At present, CellML meetings are open to anyone who wants to attend (although obviously the fact that they are held in Auckland limits that set from a lot of people who want to attend), and 'final' decisions are made at the meetings by whoever turns up. Just the management team? Perhaps I'll get a list of who exactly is on the 'team-cellml' list and that can be the initial list. Plus Penny, on Peter's request. The team-cellml list is not intended to be a list of people involved in the management of CellML, and membership on that list is not supposed to imply any sort of increased status with the CellML project (it is merely supposed to be an Auckland-local list for meeting notifications and so on). I don't think we have ever refused to subscribe anyone who wanted to be on that list from being on there (subscription requests only require approval to keep spammers off and to ensure that people realise that it is not the main CellML list). In terms of the policy for allocating addresses, we don't want to become a free e-mail redirection host for anyone on the Internet, but I think as long as someone at least has some connection with CellML, they should be allowed an alias (subject to review of what that alias is to ensure it is unlikely to cause confusion or conflict with future lists / aliases we might want to assign). I suggest that we simply give an @cellml.org alias to anyone who asks for one and has a demonstrated interest of some kind in the CellML project (whether they are a modeller using CellML, a tool developer, or interested in some of the theoretical or mathematical aspects of CellML). Simply providing a form to fill out providing details to list, and having someone briefly review them should be sufficient to keep out people who just want the e-mail alias. So perhaps we could have two groups - the main cellml team, and then the cellml community. We'd probably want those on different, linked pages. P.S. Peter is away from today until the 20th July, getting back to the office on the 23rd, if you didn't get the email. I would like to see this mailing list used as more of place for decision making so that things like this shouldn't affect the project. I think cellml-discussion@cellml.org is much more appropriate for such discussions than the team-cellml list, to which only e-mails which are unlikely to be relevant outside of the Auckland group should be sent. This has been agreed on at CellML meetings (before you were working on the CellML project), and unless that decision is revisited I think we should all try to abide by it to ensure that no-one outside of Auckland who wants to contribute to CellML is unable to post (the list is publicly indexed so others could read it if they wanted to, but if they are not on the list they might be unaware that discussions are taking place). Well, it does get a fair amount of traffic. Although it seems to mainly just be you, Matt, Tommy and I, and occasionally Andrew. It was nice to see some others like Winfred Li and Jonathan Cooper posting on the Having high traffic on the list does at least demonstrate that the CellML project is still active. That said, I agree that being on a moderate traffic mailing list when you are only interested in one thing is probably a little bit annoying (I have to manage how many mailing lists I get on because it does add up once you are getting a few messages a day from dozens of lists). We can't make the list completely open for posting by non-subscribers (because we would get a lot of spam, as has been a problem with previous open @cellml.org lists). However, we could have a system were users have to confirm their own message to ensure they use a valid sender address. The only problem would be ensuring that we copy people on the threads that they started (although with a bit of coding we could make mailman do this automatically as long as the thread header got kept correctly by the UA). Best regards, Andrew cellml-discussion list the other day. Maybe you could go for a compromise Andre and use [EMAIL PROTECTED] or something :) I like the sound of that :-) ___ team-cellml mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.bioeng.auckland.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/team-cellml ___ team-cellml mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.bioeng.auckland.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/team-cellml
