Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Gordon Messmer]

On 11/3/18 12:44 AM, yf chu wrote:

I wonder whether the performance will be affected if there are too many files 
and directories on the server.



With XFS on modern CentOS systems, you probably don't need to worry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FegjLbCnoBw

For older systems, as best I understand it: As the directory tree grows, 
the answer to your question depends on how many entries are in the 
directories, how deep the directory structure is, and how random the 
access pattern is.  Ultimately, you want to minimize the number of 
individual disk reads required.


Directories with lots of entries is one situation where you may see 
performance degrade.  Typically around the time the directory grows 
larger than the maximum size of the direct block list [1] (48k), reading 
the directory starts to take a little longer. After the maximum size of 
the single indirect block list (4MB), it will tend to get slower again.  
File names impact directory size, so average filename length factors in, 
as well as the number of files.


A given file lookup will need to reach each of the parent directories to 
locate the next item in the path.  If your path is very deep, then your 
directories are likely to be smaller on average, but you're increasing 
the number of lookups required for parent directories to reduce the 
length of the block list.  It might make your worst-case better, but 
your best-case is probably worse.


The system's cache means that accessing a few files in a large structure 
is not as expensive as random files in a large structure.  If you have a 
large structure, but users tend to access mostly the same files at any 
given time, then the system won't be reading the disk for every lookup.  
If accesses aren't random, then structure size becomes less important.


Hashed name directory structure has been mentioned, and those can be 
useful if you have a very large number of objects to store, and they all 
have the same permission set.  A hashed name structure typically 
requires that you  store in a database a map between the original names 
(that users see) and the names' hashes.  You could hash each name at 
lookup, but that doesn't give you a good mechanism for dealing with 
collisions.  Hashed name directory structures typically have a worse 
best-case performance due to the lookup, but they offer predictable and 
even growth for lookup times for each file.  Where a free-form directory 
structure might have a large difference between the best-case and 
worst-case lookup, a hashed name directory structure should be roughly 
the same access time for all files.



1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inode_pointer_structure

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Leon Fauster via CentOS]

> Am 03.11.2018 um 23:19 schrieb Keith Keller 
> :
> 
> On 2018-11-03, Robert Arkiletian  wrote:
>> 
>> To me "not supported" means the KDE packages (and all dependency libs)
>> will not be in the official repos. So have fun trying to build all
>> that yourself. Most likely there will be a third party unofficial repo
>> that will have those KDE packages.
> 
> Or perhaps a CentOS SIG for them if there's enough community
> contributors.
> 

wasn't there not something similar in the old days?

http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[J Martin Rushton via CentOS]

On 03/11/18 22:49, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:38:03 + J Martin Rushton 
> ,  CentOS mailing list  
> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> From: J Martin Rushton 
>> To: centos@centos.org
>> Message-ID: <8a7a2aea-33da-9f3c-00a1-c6471fa02...@btinternet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024
>> References: <20181102200256.ga18...@mutt.melvilletheatre.net>  
>> <20181102203540.6de5326c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>  
>>   
>> <20181103023156.b332d26c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
>> In-Reply-To: <20181103023156.b332d26c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
>>
>> On 03/11/18 02:31, Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>> Yeah, there are very few of us that completely skipped 
>>> MS-DOS/MS-Windows/MacOS-Clasic and *never* used a graphical file manager or 
>>> any of the eye-candy that people now believe is "standard" or "normal".  I 
>>> went from VMS on a VT to a VAXStation 2000 to a VAXStation 3000, 
>>> to 
>>> DECStation 5000, to Linux, with some time spent on CP/M-68K and OS-9/68000, 
>>> as 
>>> well as SunOS, IRIX, etc.  *I* have never owned a machine running any 
>>> verison 
>>> of MS-Windows (I did have a box that dual booted MS-DOS and Linux).
>>>
>>
>> VTs?  How about a VAX 11/782 with two LA120s, one per CPU. :-)
>>
>> There were advantages in hardcopy consoles when dealing with system
>> crashes or boot problems.
> 
> I did use a LA120 on a PDP-15...

Ah, I only ran RSX on a PDP-11.  Did you ever come across the SB "Shoe
Box"-11 systems?  We used them as graphics processors on CAD
workstattions linked to the VAX by RS232 serial lines.

>>
>> Oh, I will confess to once owning W95 and W98 machines, but I do
>> remember finally issuing the command "# rm -r /C".
>>
> 

-- 
J Martin Rushton MBCS



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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Keith Keller]

On 2018-11-02, Robert Heller  wrote:
>
> I one of the few (?) people who use "none of the above" (meaning all of the 
> "modern" desktop managers).  I use fvwm in MWM mode and have a Tcl/Tk coded 
> "menu manager" program.

Ah, one of these subthreads.  ;-)

I use fluxbox on my main linux desktop.  Very few people recognize it.

--keith

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Keith Keller]

On 2018-11-03, Robert Arkiletian  wrote:
>
> To me "not supported" means the KDE packages (and all dependency libs)
> will not be in the official repos. So have fun trying to build all
> that yourself. Most likely there will be a third party unofficial repo
> that will have those KDE packages.

Or perhaps a CentOS SIG for them if there's enough community
contributors.

--keith

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Keith Keller]

On 2018-11-03, Jonathan Billings  wrote:
>
> Now, filesystem limits aside, software that try to read those directories 
> with huge numbers of files are going to have performance issues. I/O 
> operations, memory limitations and time are going to be bottlenecks to web 
> operations. 

Just to be pedantic, it's only what Jonathan suggested that would be a
performance problem.  Typically, a web server doesn't need to read the
directory in order to retrieve a file and send it back to a client, so
that wouldn't necessarily be a performance issue.  But having too many
files in one directory would impact other operations that might be
important, like backups, finding files, or most other bulk file
operations, which would also have an effect on other processes like the
web server.  (And if the web server is generating directory listings on
the fly that would be a huge performance problem.)

And as others have mentioned, this issue isn't filesystem-specific.
There are ways to work around some of these issues, but in general it's
better to avoid them in the first place.

The typical ways of working around this issue are storing the files in a
hashed directory tree, and storing the files as blobs in a database.
There are lots of tools to help either job.

--keith

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Frank Cox]

On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 06:37:53 +0800 (CST)
yf chu wrote:

> Thank you for your advice. I know the issue depends on  a lot of factors.
> Would you please give me some detail information about how to tune these
> parameters such as the size of cache,the type of cpu? I am not quite familiar
> with these detail.

Depending on the nature of these "millions of files", you may want to consider 
a database-backed application rather than simply dumping the files into a 
directory tree of some kind.   I assume that you'll have to index your files in 
some way to make all of these web pages useful, so a database might be what you 
want instead of a simple heap o' html files.

Then you won't be dealing with millions of files.  A properly constructed 
database can be very efficient; a lot of very smart people have put a lot of 
thought into making it so.

-- 
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Real D 3D Digital Cinema ~ www.melvilletheatre.com
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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:38:03 + J Martin Rushton 
,  CentOS mailing list  
wrote:

> 
> 
> From: J Martin Rushton 
> To: centos@centos.org
> Message-ID: <8a7a2aea-33da-9f3c-00a1-c6471fa02...@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024
> References: <20181102200256.ga18...@mutt.melvilletheatre.net>  
> <20181102203540.6de5326c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>  
>   
> <20181103023156.b332d26c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
> In-Reply-To: <20181103023156.b332d26c2...@sharky3.deepsoft.com>
> 
> On 03/11/18 02:31, Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Yeah, there are very few of us that completely skipped 
> > MS-DOS/MS-Windows/MacOS-Clasic and *never* used a graphical file manager or 
> > any of the eye-candy that people now believe is "standard" or "normal".  I 
> > went from VMS on a VT to a VAXStation 2000 to a VAXStation 3000, 
> > to 
> > DECStation 5000, to Linux, with some time spent on CP/M-68K and OS-9/68000, 
> > as 
> > well as SunOS, IRIX, etc.  *I* have never owned a machine running any 
> > verison 
> > of MS-Windows (I did have a box that dual booted MS-DOS and Linux).
> > 
> 
> VTs?  How about a VAX 11/782 with two LA120s, one per CPU. :-)
> 
> There were advantages in hardcopy consoles when dealing with system
> crashes or boot problems.

I did use a LA120 on a PDP-15...

> 
> Oh, I will confess to once owning W95 and W98 machines, but I do
> remember finally issuing the command "# rm -r /C".
> 

-- 
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
   
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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[yf chu]

Thank you for your advice. I know the issue depends on  a lot of factors. Would 
you please give me some detail information about how to tune these parameters 
such as the size of cache,the type of cpu? I am not quite familiar with these 
detail.








At 2018-11-03 22:39:55, "Stephen John Smoogen"  wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 04:17, yf chu  wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for your hint.
>> I really mean I am planning to  store  millions of files on the file system.
>> Then may I ask that what is the maximum number of files which could be 
>> stored in one directory without affecting the performance of web server?
>>
>>
>
>There is no simple answer to that. It will depend on everything from
>the physical drives used, the hardware that connects the motherboard
>to the drives, the size of the cache and type of CPU on the system,
>any low level filesystem items (software/hardware raid, type of raid,
>redundancy of the raid, etc), the type of the file system, the size of
>the files, the layout of directory structure, and the metadata
>connected to those files and needing to be checked.
>
>Any one of those can severely affect partially performance of the
>web-server, and multiple combinations of them can severely affect it.
>This means a lot of benchmarking for the hardware and os are needed to
>get an idea if any of the tuning of number of files per directory will
>make things better or not. I have seen many systems where the hardware
>worked better with a certain type of RAID and it didn't matter if you
>had 10,000 or 100 files in each directory.. the changes in performance
>were minimal but moving from RAID10 to RAID6 or vice versa sped things
>up much more.. or adding more cache to the hardware controller etc
>etc.
>
>Assuming you have tuned all of that, then the number of files in the
>directory comes down to a 'gut' check. I have seen some people do some
>sort of power of 2 per directory but rarely go over 1024. if you do a
>3 level double hex tree <[0-f][0-f]>/<[0-f][0-f]>/<[0-f][0-f]>/ and
>lay them out using some sort of file hash method.. you can easily sit
>256 files in each directory and have 2^32 files.. You will probably
>end up with some hot spots depending on the hash method so it would be
>good to test that first.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 2018-11-03 16:03:56, "Walter H."  wrote:
>> >On 03.11.2018 08:44, yf chu wrote:
>> >> I have a website with millions of pages.
>> >>
>> >does 'millions of pages' also mean 'millions of files on the file system'?
>> >
>> >just a hint - has nothing to do with any file system as its universal:
>> >e.g. when you have 1 files
>> >don't store them in one folder, create 100 folders with 100 files in each;
>> >
>> >there is no file system that handles millions of files in one folder
>> >or with limited resources (e.g. RAM)
>> >
>> >___
>> >CentOS mailing list
>> >CentOS@centos.org
>> >https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>> ___
>> CentOS mailing list
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>> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>
>
>-- 
>Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: [CentOS] fingerprint reader on C-7 ???

[Valeri Galtsev]

On Sat, November 3, 2018 12:48 pm, Fred Smith wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I just got a new (to me) used laptop (HP EliteBook 8530p) and find that
> it has a fingerprint reader.
>
> Wondering if it could be made to work for me (Centos-7) I did a lot
> of googling (well, actually duck-duck-go-ing)

You made my day! duckduckgo.com for me always!

> and found a ton of hits
> on either setting it up in Windoze, or others wondering if it can be
> used in Linux. Some info on setting it up in Ubuntu, and a couple of
> pages on setting it up in Fedora, pages that were ten years old, or so.
>
> Found an academic paper on a group that wrote portable tools in Java
> that allegedly enable it in a cross-platfor manner, but not the
> software itself.
>
> Does anyone here have any better information on if it is possible,
> and if so, how?

I have fingerprint reader on my laptop, and I never configure that with my
fingerprints. If someone is evil enough, they can beat my password out of
me and walk away with my laptop and password. I don't want them walk away
with my finger to use on fingerprint reader ;-) There are other
considerations similar to using dickdickgo but not google. Stolen password
you can change. What about stolen fingerprint metrics?

Thanks again for duckduckgo!

Valeri

>
> thanks in advance!
>
> Fred
>
> --
>  Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us
> -
>   The eyes of the Lord are everywhere,
> keeping watch on the wicked and the good.
> - Proverbs 15:3 (niv)
> -
> ___
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>



Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247

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[CentOS] XPS 13 9370 / CentOS compat

[Leon Fauster via CentOS]

Anyone with some Dell laptop XPS 13 9370 (2018) experience here?
Especially with that "Killer 1435 (802.11ac 2x2 und Bluetooth)" device?
Supported by the stock kernel (EL7)? 

--
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LF

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Robert Arkiletian]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 3:19 AM Pete Biggs  wrote:
>
>"A future major release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux will no longer
>support using KDE instead of the default GNOME desktop environment."
>
> The next major release is RHEL 8 - it won't support KDE. It doesn't
> mean KDE won't run on it, it just means it isn't supported.
>

To me "not supported" means the KDE packages (and all dependency libs)
will not be in the official repos. So have fun trying to build all
that yourself. Most likely there will be a third party unofficial repo
that will have those KDE packages.

BTW I think the new KDE Plasma desktop on Kubuntu 18.04 is fantastic.
Way more modern and polished than the old KDE days. Especially with
the alternative fullscreen dashboard application launcher. It's my
preferred desktop choice out of gnome3, mate, and xfce.
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[CentOS] fingerprint reader on C-7 ???

[Fred Smith]

Hi all!

I just got a new (to me) used laptop (HP EliteBook 8530p) and find that
it has a fingerprint reader.

Wondering if it could be made to work for me (Centos-7) I did a lot
of googling (well, actually duck-duck-go-ing) and found a ton of hits
on either setting it up in Windoze, or others wondering if it can be
used in Linux. Some info on setting it up in Ubuntu, and a couple of
pages on setting it up in Fedora, pages that were ten years old, or so.

Found an academic paper on a group that wrote portable tools in Java
that allegedly enable it in a cross-platfor manner, but not the
software itself.

Does anyone here have any better information on if it is possible,
and if so, how?

thanks in advance!

Fred

-- 
 Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us -
  The eyes of the Lord are everywhere, 
keeping watch on the wicked and the good.
- Proverbs 15:3 (niv) -
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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Gianluca Cecchi]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:03 PM Frank Cox  wrote:

> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/02/rhel_deprecates_kde/
>
> That's still several years in the future, of course.
>
> I use Mate on all of my machines rather than Gnome or KDE and I'm sure
> many of you fine folks do the same.
>
> But it's interesting nonetheless.
>

Hi, based on the multitude of answers and options received, you can also
consider the magnificent old days CDE, now open sourced.
Here a screenshot of version 2.2.0d (beta ;-) as compiled some months ago
on my Fedora 28 Asus U36SD ..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JrRPdCpYXzyAB0hhVqRyfr2Pj_mtL3dr/view?usp=sharing


I just see that there is now final version 2.3.0... time to recompile it on
Fedora 29
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/files/

I couldn't resist... and I cannot forget how beautiful it was on my HP9000
workstation on 1994 !

Gianluca
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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Nataraj]

On 11/3/18 6:41 AM, Alice Wonder wrote:

On 11/03/2018 01:22 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

Le 02/11/2018 à 21:19, mark a écrit :

Odd, I've never had that problem. On the other hand, I *really* dislike
gnome. I think their target is 16 yr olds.


My reaction to GNOME 3 has been roughly the same as with systemd. At
first, I hated it with a passion. Then I saw everyone else seemed to use
it. So I started to read the docs and experiment a little bit. And now
I'm using it on a daily basis, and to my bewilderment, I've grown to
like it.


What really did me in when I was trying to like it, the scroll bars 
were gone and I was told they could be put back in place with 
configuration. So I tried to find the configuration option and 
couldn't find it. Then I was told that I had to hand-code CSS to get 
them back.



On top of that there are seperate css files for the various versions of 
gtk, and the syntax was changed over time, but to get the scrollbars 
back for applications built under all different versions of gtk, you 
have to edit css files for all the different versions.  Then there are 
some applications like thunderbird where what you put in the css files 
doesn't seem to change the scrollbars.


The one that I could never figure out is this... I run reverse video in 
many windows because it's easier on my eyes.  The windows have no 
borders, so when they overlap there's no separation between windows.  If 
you goggle for it, dozens of solutions come up, but none of them have 
worked for me.


Nataraj


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Re: [CentOS] reading old dump backups from 2009

[Nataraj]

On 11/3/18 3:26 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:

restore tvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump Verify tape and initialize maps
Input is from a local file/pipe
Checksum error 2030402, inode 0 file (null)
restore: Tape is not a dump tape

what does 'file' think the file is - i.e. what does

   file u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump


u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump:   data

Which I did think was odd.  I had also tried

bzcat u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump
bzcat: u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump is not a bzip2 file.

but I didn't remember if dump might have it's own headers before the 
compressed data.




The dump is compressed.  What was the command line you used to create
the dump file?

Have you tried using

   restore tzvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump


The version of restore that I have under CentOS 6 does not have any 
compression options except for -l.  Only dump has the compression 
options and restore is supposed to recognize the compression I believe.  
The z option definitely does not work.



Maybe the file is bad.  I am going to look to see if I can find any 
other backups of that system.



Thank You,

Nataraj


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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Kay Schenk]

On 11/03/2018 06:41 AM, Alice Wonder wrote:

On 11/03/2018 01:22 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

Le 02/11/2018 à 21:19, mark a écrit :

Odd, I've never had that problem. On the other hand, I *really* dislike
gnome. I think their target is 16 yr olds.


My reaction to GNOME 3 has been roughly the same as with systemd. At
first, I hated it with a passion. Then I saw everyone else seemed to use
it. So I started to read the docs and experiment a little bit. And now
I'm using it on a daily basis, and to my bewilderment, I've grown to
like it.


What really did me in when I was trying to like it, the scroll bars were 
gone and I was told they could be put back in place with configuration. 
So I tried to find the configuration option and couldn't find it. Then I 
was told that I had to hand-code CSS to get them back.


Oy! Yes I am still NOT loving gnome3 since my CentOS7 install in 
mid-Sept. I would install Mate but...always wary of branches like that 
that might not have continued development support.




I installed MATE the very next day.

I did briefly try it again a few month ago and I just can't figure it 
out. It's like it is trying to be a tablet OS or something, but I'm not 
using a touchscreen, I'm using a mouse and keyboard


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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Jonathan Billings]

On Nov 3, 2018, at 04:16, yf chu  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for your hint.
> I really mean I am planning to  store  millions of files on the file system.
> Then may I ask that what is the maximum number of files which could be stored 
> in one directory without affecting the performance of web server?

There are hard limits in each file system.

 For ext4, there is no per-directory limit, but there is an upper limit of 
total files (inodes really) per file system: 2^32 - 1  (4,294,967,295). XFS 
also has no per-directory limit, and a 2^64 limit of inodes. 
(18,446,744,073,709,551,616)

If you are using ext2 or 3 I think the limit per directory is around 10,000, 
and you start seeing heavy performance issues beyond that. Don’t use them. 

Now, filesystem limits aside, software that try to read those directories with 
huge numbers of files are going to have performance issues. I/O operations, 
memory limitations and time are going to be bottlenecks to web operations. 

You really need to reconsider how you want to serve these pages. 
--
Jonathan Billings
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Re: [CentOS] reading old dump backups from 2009

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 06:27, Pete Biggs  wrote:
>
>
> >
> > restore tvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump Verify tape and initialize maps
> > Input is from a local file/pipe
> > Checksum error 2030402, inode 0 file (null)
> > restore: Tape is not a dump tape
>
> what does 'file' think the file is - i.e. what does
>
>   file u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump
>
> say?
>
> >
> >
> > Here's a log file from when the backup was done back in 2009:
> >
> > DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Apr 29 09:24:36 2009
> >DUMP: Dumping /dev/md1 (/u1) to u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump
> >DUMP: Label: /u1
> >DUMP: Writing 10 Kilobyte records
> >DUMP: Compressing output at compression level 2 (bzlib)
>
>
> >DUMP: finished in 23704 seconds, throughput 4075 kBytes/sec
> >DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Apr 29 09:24:36 2009
> >DUMP: Date this dump completed:  Wed Apr 29 16:00:09 2009
> >DUMP: Average transfer rate: 2146 kB/s
> >DUMP: Wrote 96607840kB uncompressed, 50878096kB compressed, 1.899:1
> >DUMP: DUMP IS DONE
>
> The dump is compressed.  What was the command line you used to create
> the dump file?
>
> Have you tried using
>
>   restore tzvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump
>

I agree with Pete and it will be up to see what file and others say to
see which type of compression was done.. (z means gzip, j means bzip2
which would be the ones from 2009).

> >
> > Have there been any changes to the format of dump files and if so, is
> > there a version available that can read this older backup?
>
> I don't think dump has changed anything in 20 years or so!  And I
> certainly can't see it changing such that it can't read old files -
> that is, sort of, it's raison d'etre.
>
> P.
>
>
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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 04:17, yf chu  wrote:
>
> Thank you for your hint.
> I really mean I am planning to  store  millions of files on the file system.
> Then may I ask that what is the maximum number of files which could be stored 
> in one directory without affecting the performance of web server?
>
>

There is no simple answer to that. It will depend on everything from
the physical drives used, the hardware that connects the motherboard
to the drives, the size of the cache and type of CPU on the system,
any low level filesystem items (software/hardware raid, type of raid,
redundancy of the raid, etc), the type of the file system, the size of
the files, the layout of directory structure, and the metadata
connected to those files and needing to be checked.

Any one of those can severely affect partially performance of the
web-server, and multiple combinations of them can severely affect it.
This means a lot of benchmarking for the hardware and os are needed to
get an idea if any of the tuning of number of files per directory will
make things better or not. I have seen many systems where the hardware
worked better with a certain type of RAID and it didn't matter if you
had 10,000 or 100 files in each directory.. the changes in performance
were minimal but moving from RAID10 to RAID6 or vice versa sped things
up much more.. or adding more cache to the hardware controller etc
etc.

Assuming you have tuned all of that, then the number of files in the
directory comes down to a 'gut' check. I have seen some people do some
sort of power of 2 per directory but rarely go over 1024. if you do a
3 level double hex tree <[0-f][0-f]>/<[0-f][0-f]>/<[0-f][0-f]>/ and
lay them out using some sort of file hash method.. you can easily sit
256 files in each directory and have 2^32 files.. You will probably
end up with some hot spots depending on the hash method so it would be
good to test that first.

>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 2018-11-03 16:03:56, "Walter H."  wrote:
> >On 03.11.2018 08:44, yf chu wrote:
> >> I have a website with millions of pages.
> >>
> >does 'millions of pages' also mean 'millions of files on the file system'?
> >
> >just a hint - has nothing to do with any file system as its universal:
> >e.g. when you have 1 files
> >don't store them in one folder, create 100 folders with 100 files in each;
> >
> >there is no file system that handles millions of files in one folder
> >or with limited resources (e.g. RAM)
> >
> >___
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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[J Martin Rushton via CentOS]

On 03/11/18 02:31, Robert Heller wrote:



> Yeah, there are very few of us that completely skipped 
> MS-DOS/MS-Windows/MacOS-Clasic and *never* used a graphical file manager or 
> any of the eye-candy that people now believe is "standard" or "normal".  I 
> went from VMS on a VT to a VAXStation 2000 to a VAXStation 3000, to 
> DECStation 5000, to Linux, with some time spent on CP/M-68K and OS-9/68000, 
> as 
> well as SunOS, IRIX, etc.  *I* have never owned a machine running any verison 
> of MS-Windows (I did have a box that dual booted MS-DOS and Linux).
> 

VTs?  How about a VAX 11/782 with two LA120s, one per CPU. :-)

There were advantages in hardcopy consoles when dealing with system
crashes or boot problems.

Oh, I will confess to once owning W95 and W98 machines, but I do
remember finally issuing the command "# rm -r /C".

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Alice Wonder]

On 11/03/2018 01:22 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

Le 02/11/2018 à 21:19, mark a écrit :

Odd, I've never had that problem. On the other hand, I *really* dislike
gnome. I think their target is 16 yr olds.


My reaction to GNOME 3 has been roughly the same as with systemd. At
first, I hated it with a passion. Then I saw everyone else seemed to use
it. So I started to read the docs and experiment a little bit. And now
I'm using it on a daily basis, and to my bewilderment, I've grown to
like it.


What really did me in when I was trying to like it, the scroll bars were 
gone and I was told they could be put back in place with configuration. 
So I tried to find the configuration option and couldn't find it. Then I 
was told that I had to hand-code CSS to get them back.


I installed MATE the very next day.

I did briefly try it again a few month ago and I just can't figure it 
out. It's like it is trying to be a tablet OS or something, but I'm not 
using a touchscreen, I'm using a mouse and keyboard.


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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 03/11/2018 à 10:27, Lachlan Musicman a écrit :
> Ah yes. I can see that. I said media player, but I only use it for music.
> And I used it very heavily - 10-12 hours a day, often with non Linux users
> controlling it. It's interface was very smart and intuitive for non linux
> users.

Well, Audacious is what I install for all my users (about 200 on the
latest count). Just the features you need. You might want to add all the
Audacious-related packages from the nux-dextop repository (great for all
things multimedia).

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Re: [CentOS] reading old dump backups from 2009

[Jonathan Billings]

> On Nov 3, 2018, at 06:26, Pete Biggs  wrote:
> I don't think dump has changed anything in 20 years or so!  And I
> certainly can't see it changing such that it can't read old files -
> that is, sort of, it's raison d'etre.

A bit off topic but...

Funny story, at a previous job, my boss was able to extract the data off tapes 
made in the 80s on tops-20 systems (iirc) with the version of restore on 
FreeBSD, but couldn’t get the tape drive to work on anything but Linux, so he 
had to extract the tapes on a RHL system then copy them to FreeBSD to read into 
the restore program. He actually was able to find the data he was looking for. 


--
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Re: [CentOS] reading old dump backups from 2009

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> restore tvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump Verify tape and initialize maps
> Input is from a local file/pipe
> Checksum error 2030402, inode 0 file (null)
> restore: Tape is not a dump tape

what does 'file' think the file is - i.e. what does

  file u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump

say?

> 
> 
> Here's a log file from when the backup was done back in 2009:
> 
> DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Apr 29 09:24:36 2009
>DUMP: Dumping /dev/md1 (/u1) to u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump
>DUMP: Label: /u1
>DUMP: Writing 10 Kilobyte records
>DUMP: Compressing output at compression level 2 (bzlib)


>DUMP: finished in 23704 seconds, throughput 4075 kBytes/sec
>DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Apr 29 09:24:36 2009
>DUMP: Date this dump completed:  Wed Apr 29 16:00:09 2009
>DUMP: Average transfer rate: 2146 kB/s
>DUMP: Wrote 96607840kB uncompressed, 50878096kB compressed, 1.899:1
>DUMP: DUMP IS DONE

The dump is compressed.  What was the command line you used to create
the dump file?

Have you tried using 

  restore tzvf u1_l0_04-29-09_md1.dump

> 
> Have there been any changes to the format of dump files and if so, is 
> there a version available that can read this older backup?

I don't think dump has changed anything in 20 years or so!  And I
certainly can't see it changing such that it can't read old files -
that is, sort of, it's raison d'etre.

P.


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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Pete Biggs]

On Sat, 2018-11-03 at 10:44 +0100, Walter H. wrote:
> On 02.11.2018 21:02, Frank Cox wrote:
> > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/02/rhel_deprecates_kde/
> > 
> > That's still several years in the future, of course.
> > 
> > But it's interesting nonetheless.
> by reading between the lines this could mean, that RHEL 7 (CentOS 7 and 
> other forks of RHEL)
> is the last one having KDE on board?
> 
I don't think it's reading between the lines! It explicitly says:

   "A future major release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux will no longer
   support using KDE instead of the default GNOME desktop environment."

The next major release is RHEL 8 - it won't support KDE. It doesn't
mean KDE won't run on it, it just means it isn't supported.

P.


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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Walter H.]

On 02.11.2018 21:02, Frank Cox wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/02/rhel_deprecates_kde/

That's still several years in the future, of course.

But it's interesting nonetheless.
by reading between the lines this could mean, that RHEL 7 (CentOS 7 and 
other forks of RHEL)

is the last one having KDE on board?

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Lachlan Musicman]

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 20:18, Nicolas Kovacs  wrote:

> Le 03/11/2018 à 10:10, Lachlan Musicman a écrit :
> > For me, the saddest thing about this announcement is that I *still* think
> > Amarok is the best media player available, even if I've not used it for a
> > while. Installing the entire KDE base for one program is just too heavy.
> It
> > really is streets ahead of the other media players though.
>
> Amarok is nice, but reminds me of the "All You Can Eat" formula in a
> chinese restaurant where you would be forced to eat every dish. In
> France we call this "une usine à gaz".
>
>
Ah yes. I can see that. I said media player, but I only use it for music.
And I used it very heavily - 10-12 hours a day, often with non Linux users
controlling it. It's interface was very smart and intuitive for non linux
users.


--
'...postwork futures are dismissed with the claim that "it is not in our
nature to be idle", thereby demonstrating at once an essentialist view of
labor and an impoverished imagination of the possibilities of nonwork.'

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 03/11/2018 à 10:10, Lachlan Musicman a écrit :
> For me, the saddest thing about this announcement is that I *still* think
> Amarok is the best media player available, even if I've not used it for a
> while. Installing the entire KDE base for one program is just too heavy. It
> really is streets ahead of the other media players though.

For the last ten years or so, I've been using Audacious for audio and
VLC for pretty much everything else. Plus, I have a no-GUI install of
MPlayer, which I use regularly for watching videos that need some
treatment like subtitle sync. Works perfectly.

Amarok is nice, but reminds me of the "All You Can Eat" formula in a
chinese restaurant where you would be forced to eat every dish. In
France we call this "une usine à gaz".

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Lachlan Musicman]

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 19:22, Nicolas Kovacs  wrote:

> My reaction to GNOME 3 has been roughly the same as with systemd. At
> first, I hated it with a passion. Then I saw everyone else seemed to use
> it. So I started to read the docs and experiment a little bit. And now
> I'm using it on a daily basis, and to my bewilderment, I've grown to
> like it.
>
>   * https://blog.microlinux.fr/gnome-centos/
>
>   * https://blog.microlinux.fr/poste-de-travail-gnome-centos-7/
>

Thanks for the readings - as someone that recently moved from 10+ years on
Ubuntu, I quite liked Unity. I'm finding Gnome a little brain dead in some
obvious-to-me-why-not-everyone-else areas.

For me, the saddest thing about this announcement is that I *still* think
Amarok is the best media player available, even if I've not used it for a
while. Installing the entire KDE base for one program is just too heavy. It
really is streets ahead of the other media players though.

Cheers
L.

--
'...postwork futures are dismissed with the claim that "it is not in our
nature to be idle", thereby demonstrating at once an essentialist view of
labor and an impoverished imagination of the possibilities of nonwork.'

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 02/11/2018 à 21:35, Robert Heller a écrit :
> I one of the few (?) people who use "none of the above" (meaning all of the 
> "modern" desktop managers).  I use fvwm in MWM mode and have a Tcl/Tk coded 
> "menu manager" program.  My screen looks almost like a 1980s vintage 
> VaxStation 3000 running DECWindows.

Can you post a screenshot of your setup ? I'm curious.

Thanks,

Niki

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Re: [CentOS] Red Hat is Planning To Deprecate KDE on RHEL By 2024

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 02/11/2018 à 21:19, mark a écrit :
> Odd, I've never had that problem. On the other hand, I *really* dislike
> gnome. I think their target is 16 yr olds.

My reaction to GNOME 3 has been roughly the same as with systemd. At
first, I hated it with a passion. Then I saw everyone else seemed to use
it. So I started to read the docs and experiment a little bit. And now
I'm using it on a daily basis, and to my bewilderment, I've grown to
like it.

  * https://blog.microlinux.fr/gnome-centos/

  * https://blog.microlinux.fr/poste-de-travail-gnome-centos-7/

Sad to hear the news about KDE though. My custom version of CentOS 7 and
KDE 4 is running nicely on a few installations for clients:

  * https://blog.microlinux.fr/poste-de-travail-centos-7/

The only real problem I see with KDE is their frantic release schedule.
Six months seems to be "LTS" for the average KDE developer.

Cheers,

Niki

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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[yf chu]

Thank you for your hint.
I really mean I am planning to  store  millions of files on the file system.
Then may I ask that what is the maximum number of files which could be stored 
in one directory without affecting the performance of web server?








At 2018-11-03 16:03:56, "Walter H."  wrote:
>On 03.11.2018 08:44, yf chu wrote:
>> I have a website with millions of pages.
>>
>does 'millions of pages' also mean 'millions of files on the file system'?
>
>just a hint - has nothing to do with any file system as its universal:
>e.g. when you have 1 files
>don't store them in one folder, create 100 folders with 100 files in each;
>
>there is no file system that handles millions of files in one folder
>or with limited resources (e.g. RAM)
>
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Re: [CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[Walter H.]

On 03.11.2018 08:44, yf chu wrote:

I have a website with millions of pages.


does 'millions of pages' also mean 'millions of files on the file system'?

just a hint - has nothing to do with any file system as its universal:
e.g. when you have 1 files
don't store them in one folder, create 100 folders with 100 files in each;

there is no file system that handles millions of files in one folder
or with limited resources (e.g. RAM)

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[CentOS] inquiry about limitation of file system

[yf chu]

I have a website with millions of pages. We often deploy our websites on centos 
with Nginx and Apache Http Server as HTTP Web Server. I am very worried about 
the performance of web server if the amount of pages is very very large. I 
wonder whether the performance will be affected if there are too many files and 
directories on the server. Besides, our bugdet is limited. We do not want to 
deploy too many Servers and use other file system such as GFS. So I want to 
know the limitation of centos file system and how should I handle this issue.




 
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