Re: [CentOS] How will fragmentation help Red Hat

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 4:21 AM Josh Boyer  wrote:

>
> Competition in the Enterprise Linux space is a good thing.  If a
> company or community other than Red Hat starts serving a market that
> RHEL can't, it forces Red Hat to evaluate and adjust.  It keeps
> everyone pushing and developing solutions that hopefully benefit end
> users and customers.  If everyone is fully participating in open
> source and upstream, it makes them all better inherently.
>
> > I've been using and promoting the Red Hat "(Enterprise) Linux" ecosystem
> > for more than two decades. But, who will I promote in the future if this
> > ecosystem becomes fragmented?
>
> Is it different from the non-Enterprise Linux ecosystem?  What do you
> do there given the large variety of Linux distributions?
>
> My personal take on this is to think about what I use and why I use
> it.  How does something solve my needs?  Does it need to be better?
> etc.
>
> For example, long before I ever worked at Red Hat I was a Fedora Linux
> user.  I love that project and distribution.  I literally owe my
> career in some part to it.  In recent years, I don't use Fedora
> heavily.  Partly because of my day job, but also partly because my
> personal needs changed.  I do still install almost every release in
> some way and try it out though.  If someone asked me for a
> recommendation on a community Linux distribution, it would still be at
> the top of my list.  Not because of what it was like in the past, but
> because of what Fedora is today which is far better than it ever has
> been.
>
> If someone asked me for a recommendation on an Enterprise Linux
> operating system, I'd say RHEL.  Yes of course because I work on it,
> but also because I firmly believe it is the best on the market.  It's
> what I run on my main machine every day.  If someone asked for a
> community Enterprise Linux project, I'd suggest CentOS Stream because
> of the direct ties to RHEL, but also because I believe it's a
> relatively young and growing project with a lot of potential to do
> really interesting things.  However, I would probably ask what their
> needs were and then I'd earnestly try to make a recommendation based
> on that.
>

Thank you for this response, Josh. I can sympathize with your love of
Fedora, and it is nice to see how you characterize CentOS Stream. I, too,
hope Stream evolves and grows into something that's not just a place for
contributions, but also something that draws users and encourages
innovation.

I am NOT a Red Hat employee (few things are more obvious than that). From
the outside, I don't know if inside Red Hat there is a culture at war with
itself, or if everybody is of one mind. That wouldn't mirror any free
software community I've seen, so I'd like to think there's some (hopefully)
healthy debate going on.

Right now I feel like CentOS Stream is not where it's "meant to be," and
nobody seems to be talking about exactly what that is. I know what I want
it to be, but I'm not sure the project itself has figured out its direction.

I'm thinking the downstreams that base on Stream will be doing the things
that users want and Stream itself isn't doing right now. That's everything
from the live media that AlmaLinux provides (a great thing!) to the
critical patches that Stream doesn't send to users in a timely manner.

I do want to thank all those Red Hat employees and other community members
who believe in free software and community distributions.
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Re: [CentOS] Centos Stream 9 module list

[Steven Rosenberg]

My "use case" for modules was getting a newer version of Ruby, but now I
notice that EPEL also ships newer Ruby versions.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 12:09 PM Steven Rosenberg 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 2:02 PM Josh Boyer  wrote:
>
> Ultimately, the Red Hat teams are using modularity where they believe
>> it makes sense and using regular packaging to reduce complexity for
>> customers where it doesn't provide much benefit.
>>
>
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> For those who want to know more, here is the documentation I used when I
> was trying to figure out modules:
>
>
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/9/html/managing_software_with_the_dnf_tool/assembly_searching-for-rhel-9-content_managing-software-with-the-dnf-tool#proc_listing-available-modules_assembly_searching-for-rhel-9-content
>
> I came to CentOS after Fedora and was unfamiliar with the concept of
> modules. I saw "evidence" of modules in the CentOS repos but didn't know
> how to use them until I read this documentation.
>
>
>
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Re: [CentOS] Centos Stream 9 module list

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 2:02 PM Josh Boyer  wrote:

Ultimately, the Red Hat teams are using modularity where they believe
> it makes sense and using regular packaging to reduce complexity for
> customers where it doesn't provide much benefit.
>

Thanks for the explanation.

For those who want to know more, here is the documentation I used when I
was trying to figure out modules:

https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/9/html/managing_software_with_the_dnf_tool/assembly_searching-for-rhel-9-content_managing-software-with-the-dnf-tool#proc_listing-available-modules_assembly_searching-for-rhel-9-content

I came to CentOS after Fedora and was unfamiliar with the concept of
modules. I saw "evidence" of modules in the CentOS repos but didn't know
how to use them until I read this documentation.
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Re: [CentOS] centos 8-Streams kernel?

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 7:34 AM Johnny Hughes  wrote:

>
> One thing to note is, we are currently working on moving the c8s process
> to use the same workflow as the c9s process.  That will happen later
> this year.  Right now, I only build what releases to git.centos.org for
> the c8s branch for the kernel.  They are looking to get me a new kernel
> now.
>

Excellent news! Thank you.
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Re: [CentOS] centos 8-Streams kernel?

[Steven Rosenberg]

If you want to follow CentOS Stream development, I have two websites that
grab CentOS-supplied XML and publish blog entries of updated packages
whenever that happens:

https://centos.passthejoe.net/
https://passthejoe.tilde.institute/centos/

Both websites have the same content.

Frustration with CentOS Stream 8 development and security -- especially the
kernel -- drove me to create this site so progress in both distros (8
Stream and 9 Stream) would be easier to follow.

Red Hat employees promised that Stream 9 would solve many of the issues
that are troubling in Stream 8, and so far that has been true.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 12:58 PM Aleksandar Ivanisevic <
aleksandar.ivanise...@2e-systems.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know what is happening with centos 8-Streams kernel?
> It has been behind RHEL for months now, RHEL8.7 has 4.18.0-425.3.1.el8
> built in December and Streams has 4.18.0-408.el8 built all the way back in
> end October. Is there some policy somewhere that I missed that says that 9
> will be now getting the focus or whatnot?
>
> thanks,
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Re: [CentOS] Ruby on Cent OS 8

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Tue, 2021-11-16 at 02:15 +0100, Markus Falb wrote:

> Rocky 8.5 has gained support for secure boot
> https://rockylinux.org/news/rocky-linux-8-5-ga-release/
> 
> 

Big step for Rocky.

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Re: [CentOS] Ruby on Cent OS 8

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Mon, 2021-11-08 at 09:25 +0300, Benson Muite wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Will Ruby on Cent OS 8 be upgraded, the current version 2.5.9 has 
> reached EOL.

I remember being told that while the older version of Ruby is EOL as
far as the Ruby project goes, Red Hat developers still backport
security fixes for the life of the release.

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Re: [CentOS] How do I install the "right" python3-tkinter in CentOS Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Tue, 2021-09-21 at 17:09 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> The python3-tkinter package is a sub package of the python3 source
> package, which includes platform-python.  They are versioned
> together, so you can’t upgrade one without needing the updates for
> the other.
> 
> Since python3-tkinter is in AppStream, maybe you don’t have that
> enabled?  You need the 8Stream repo, not the one for base 8.

I'm not sure what happened, but today I'm able to install python3-idle
and python3-tkinter, and I didn't have to downgrade platform-python.
The correct versions came through.

I don't know what was different yesterday, but today it's working.

Thanks.

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Re: [CentOS] How do I install the "right" python3-tkinter in CentOS Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Tue, 2021-09-21 at 11:49 -0700, Steven Rosenberg wrote:
> In CentOS Stream 8, A yum upgrade just upgraded platform-python to
> platform-python-3.6.8-41.el8.x86_64.rpm. The upgrade wouldn't go
> through until I removed python3-tkinter-3.6.8-40.el8.x86_64.
> 
> Now I want to reinstall python3-tkinter, and the only version yum is
> offering is 3.6.8-40, and it offers to downgrade platform-python to
> 3.6.8-41.
> 
> 
> python3-tkinter-3.6.8-37.el8.x86_64.rpm
> 
> python3-tkinter-3.6.8-38.el8.x86_64.rpm   
> 
> python3-tkinter-3.6.8-39.el8.x86_64.rpm
> 
> python3-tkinter-3.6.8-40.el8.x86_64.rpm
> 
> python3-tkinter-3.6.8-41.el8.x86_64.rpm
> 
> How do I get yum/dnf to let me install the "right" one (3.6.8-41)?
> 

I forgot to say that all those versions of python3-tkinter are in the
CentOS repo, but yum only "shows" me one.

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[CentOS] How do I install the "right" python3-tkinter in CentOS Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg]

In CentOS Stream 8, A yum upgrade just upgraded platform-python to
platform-python-3.6.8-41.el8.x86_64.rpm. The upgrade wouldn't go
through until I removed python3-tkinter-3.6.8-40.el8.x86_64.

Now I want to reinstall python3-tkinter, and the only version yum is
offering is 3.6.8-40, and it offers to downgrade platform-python to
3.6.8-41.


python3-tkinter-3.6.8-37.el8.x86_64.rpm

python3-tkinter-3.6.8-38.el8.x86_64.rpm 

python3-tkinter-3.6.8-39.el8.x86_64.rpm

python3-tkinter-3.6.8-40.el8.x86_64.rpm

python3-tkinter-3.6.8-41.el8.x86_64.rpm

How do I get yum/dnf to let me install the "right" one (3.6.8-41)?

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Re: [CentOS] Minimising a CentOS installation

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Sat, 2021-08-21 at 20:24 +0200, Leon Fauster via CentOS wrote:

> > https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-remove-orphaned-packages-on-centos-linux
> > 
> > It worked for me:
> > 
> > Get a list of orphaned packages:
> > 
> > $ package-cleanup --leaves
> > 
> > Remove them:
> > 
> > # yum remove `package-cleanup --leaves`
> > 
> > That's only if you're OK removing all of them.
> > 
> 
> Not sure why but at least on two C8S systems (not all)
> the kernel rpms are listed as leaves, also the running one.
> So, better don't execute the above command ...
> 
> Investigating why other C8S systems do not show the kernel
> rpms ...

I'm on C8S, and my package-cleanup --leaves is now clear.


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Re: [CentOS] Minimising a CentOS installation

[Steven Rosenberg]

On Fri, 2021-08-20 at 22:10 -0600, James Szinger wrote:

> My typical approach is to run `package-cleanup --leaves --all` or
> `yum
> leaves` (might need software not on CentOS 8) and justify everything
> that is there.  I have about 85 leaf packages on a CentOS 7 web
> server, so a minimal package set should be smaller.  Experiment with
> a
> disposable VM so it is easy to recover from mistakes.

Thanks for this. I did a little searching and found this page:


https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-remove-orphaned-packages-on-centos-linux

It worked for me:

Get a list of orphaned packages:

$ package-cleanup --leaves

Remove them:

# yum remove `package-cleanup --leaves`

That's only if you're OK removing all of them.

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Re: [CentOS] It's been six days since CVD-2021-33909 was patched in RHEL, what's the holdup for Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg via CentOS]

Thanks to everybody involved. I did the update this morning.




Jul 28, 2021, 8:18 PM by c...@redhat.com:

> kernel-4.18.0-326.el8 is being pushed to the mirrors now.
>
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 2:42 PM Brian Stinson  wrote:
>
>>
>> Carl summarized really well how code moves through RHEL and CentOS
>> Stream, and we’re working on making sure we publish a build that has
>> made it through the usual set of RHEL tests. -326 is a possible
>> candidate here.
>> Think about CentOS Stream as the development location for the next-minor
>> release of RHEL.  I’d like to highlight some of the general points
>> related to this discussion:
>> - There are certain classes of CVE that we handle differently from
>> normal development work:
>> https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q4-how-will-cves-be-handled-in-centos-stream
>> 
>> - Since these fixes need to go into RHEL first, getting them into the
>> development location (CentOS Stream) represents a separate set of work.
>> - Our intent is to get CVE fixes like this into Stream as soon as
>> they’re available within the guidelines referenced in the FAQ
>> In the past updates have gone out quickly, we haven’t artificially held
>> up pushes and we will not do so going forward. We don’t, though, make
>> any forecasts or guarantees about turnaround time, this is to make sure
>> we deliver those fixes correctly.
>> I hope that as we continue rolling out new workflows in CentOS Stream 9,
>> we will be able to provide more direct feedback on patch status at a
>> source code level. Just as a reminder you can view and participate in
>> development happening on Gitlab:
>> https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/
>> 
>> --Brian
>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Carl George
>
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Re: [CentOS] It's been six days since CVD-2021-33909 was patched in RHEL, what's the holdup for Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg via CentOS]

Thank you for the update and your candor on this.

Jul 28, 2021, 9:44 AM by c...@redhat.com:

> It's being worked on.  RHEL maintainers can fix things independently
> in different minor version branches.  The fix was applied to the
> internal 8.4 branch while it was under embargo.  It has since been
> released in RHEL 8.4, which allowed it to be rebuilt in CentOS Linux
> 8.  CentOS Stream 8 is currently tracking the internal 8.5 branch,
> which just had the fix merged yesterday, along with many other
> changes, as kernel-4.18.0-326.el8.  That build is going through QA
> now.  Once completed, it will be exported to git.centos.org and
> rebuilt in CentOS Stream 8.  This is the "inside out" process we've
> referred to, and we know it's not ideal.  CentOS Stream 9 improves on
> this significantly with RHEL maintainers doing their builds directly
> in the CentOS project, in the public.
>
> I'll also note this isn't something new.  We've been clear that RHEL
> gets some security fixes first.  Typically it's only 1-2 days after
> RHEL 8 that we'll have the corresponding fix out for CentOS Linux 8
> and CentOS Stream 8.  No one is happy about how much longer this
> particular update is taking.  The Stream model brings massive changes
> to the RHEL workflows, so no one should be surprised that there are
> growing pains.
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:02 PM Steven Rosenberg via CentOS
>  wrote:
>
>>
>> This bug in the kernel was patched in RHEL on 7/20. Every other mainstream 
>> Linux distro patched it that day or the day after. That includes Rocky and 
>> Alma.
>>
>> https://access.redhat.com/security/cve/CVE-2021-33909
>>
>> It's still not patched six days later in CentOS Stream 8.
>>
>> This Bugzilla entry makes it clear that when it comes to security, CentOS 
>> Stream falls behind RHEL. But this far behind?
>>
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1975182
>>
>> This doesn't make a good argument for Stream being a viable CentOS Linux 
>> replacement.
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>>
>
>
> -- 
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>

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[CentOS] It's been six days since CVD-2021-33909 was patched in RHEL, what's the holdup for Stream 8?

[Steven Rosenberg via CentOS]

This bug in the kernel was patched in RHEL on 7/20. Every other mainstream 
Linux distro patched it that day or the day after. That includes Rocky and Alma.

https://access.redhat.com/security/cve/CVE-2021-33909

It's still not patched six days later in CentOS Stream 8.

This Bugzilla entry makes it clear that when it comes to security, CentOS 
Stream falls behind RHEL. But this far behind?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1975182

This doesn't make a good argument for Stream being a viable CentOS Linux 
replacement.
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