Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 05/30/2012 04:00 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: On 5/30/2012 3:35 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: Hi, On 05/30/2012 08:26 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? yes The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? There are atleast 8 subscribers to this list, and I know of atleast 4 servers that run CentOS. beyond that - feel free to pull a number out of thin air - its just about as likely to be accurate as the numbers above. - KB lol Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. So, johnny at centos.org, z00dax at centos.org, ralph at centos.org, herrold at centos.org should be able to tell us. No? In all seriousness ... there are: 4287 members total As far as servers installed, there is no way to accurately know that. We do know that we have had more than 6 million unique IPs request data from the 100 or so internal mirrors that serve updates. However, we push a mirrorlist that includes external (public ... not controlled by CentOS) as well as internal (controlled by CentOS) ... so we have no way of knowing how many machines got updates from the external mirrors. One also has to take into account that some users get several IP addresses (if they are behind a dynamic IP address) ... and that many people use the private IP ranges of 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, and 172.16.x.x and Network Address Translation and have many machines that come from 1 IP address. The bottom line is. we just don't know how many machines are out there. This link gives a comparison of machines running the highest rated websites: http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all (CentOS is currently #2 behind Debian on that list.) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 30.5.2012 22:48, Bob Hoffman wrote: On 5/30/2012 3:35 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: Hi, On 05/30/2012 08:26 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? yes The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? There are atleast 8 subscribers to this list, and I know of atleast 4 servers that run CentOS. beyond that - feel free to pull a number out of thin air - its just about as likely to be accurate as the numbers above. - KB lol Yes, the answer was funny. The question itself proves a lack of sense for data privacy, what a central institution may or should do and so on. This is a very sensitive and political topic, IMO. -- Kind Regards, Markus Falb signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? Much thanks, Max Pyziur p...@brama.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
Hi, On 05/30/2012 08:26 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? yes The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? There are atleast 8 subscribers to this list, and I know of atleast 4 servers that run CentOS. beyond that - feel free to pull a number out of thin air - its just about as likely to be accurate as the numbers above. - KB -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219| Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 5/30/2012 3:35 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: Hi, On 05/30/2012 08:26 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? yes The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? There are atleast 8 subscribers to this list, and I know of atleast 4 servers that run CentOS. beyond that - feel free to pull a number out of thin air - its just about as likely to be accurate as the numbers above. - KB lol ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 5/30/2012 3:35 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: Hi, On 05/30/2012 08:26 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: Greetings, Are there any summary CentOS numbers available? yes The number of subscribers to this email list, and the number of server installs? There are atleast 8 subscribers to this list, and I know of atleast 4 servers that run CentOS. beyond that - feel free to pull a number out of thin air - its just about as likely to be accurate as the numbers above. - KB lol Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. So, johnny at centos.org, z00dax at centos.org, ralph at centos.org, herrold at centos.org should be able to tell us. No? MP p...@brama.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On Wed, 2012-05-30 at 17:00 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. Why would you want to know such numbers? John. -- John Horne, Plymouth University, UK Tel: +44 (0)1752 587287Fax: +44 (0)1752 587001 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
John Horne wrote: On Wed, 2012-05-30 at 17:00 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. Why would you want to know such numbers? Because he doesn't like the answers we've uniformly given him for his problem, and is looking for a way to tell himself we're only a small group of snot-noses, rather than the opinionated, but experienced-to-very-experienced collection of people that we are. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 05/30/12 2:00 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. So, johnny at centos.org, z00dax at centos.org, ralph at centos.org, herrold at centos.org should be able to tell us. No? this would have very little relation to the number of installed servers. -- john r pierceN 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 05/30/2012 10:00 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. There are many thousands of people on the list.. The point I was trying to, badly, make is that there is no tangible manner to audit user numbers or machine numbers or anything else in-between. - KB -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh ICQ: 2522219| Yahoo IM: z00dax | Gtalk: z00dax GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
John R Pierce wrote: On 05/30/12 2:00 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. So, johnny at centos.org, z00dax at centos.org, ralph at centos.org, herrold at centos.org should be able to tell us. No? this would have very little relation to the number of installed servers. Yup. For example, I've got between 100 and 150 servers and workstations (and one at home) all running CentOS, here at a division at a US federal government agency. mark ObDisclaimer: I speak only for myself, not for my employer, nor for the US federal gov't. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On Wed, 30 May 2012 17:21:53 -0400 m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Because he doesn't like the answers we've uniformly given him for his problem, and is looking for a way to tell himself we're only a small group of snot-noses, rather than the opinionated, but experienced-to-very-experienced collection of people that we are. I'm also strongly opinionated and I range from almost competent to fairly competent. I'm in the process of upgrading a whole bunch of Centos 4 to Centos 5! So you can double your numbers on my behalf. Please note that Mailman can't really help, many people send their subscription to the trash directly. I know at least 3 admins with more than a dozen server between them, trash the emails instead of unsubscribing. -- Thanks http://www.911networks.com When the network has to work ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On Wed, 2012-05-30 at 17:00 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. Why would you want to know such numbers? I'm curious about the density of users. I manage enough email lists, one for distribution, the rest for discussion, (as well as subscribe to a diverse number of other lists) to have an idea that there is generally a small base of discussants/participants to the total number subscribed (say 10% of the subscriber is generally the upper bound of those who actively participate). MP p...@brama.com John. -- John Horne, Plymouth University, UK Tel: +44 (0)1752 587287Fax: +44 (0)1752 587001 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 30 May 2012 22:00, Max Pyziur p...@brama.com wrote: Yes, lol ... lol on. I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. So, johnny at centos.org, z00dax at centos.org, ralph at centos.org, herrold at centos.org should be able to tell us. No? I trust the administrators of the centos.org mailing lists not to give out any information on my subscription(s) to anyone, even including a count of it. We run a couple of hundred or so CentOS VMs, increasing daily. Probably more, I've lost the count ages ago and no one else is counting. Why would anyone else care. It's not any of your business. -- Hakan (m1fcj) - http://www.hititgunesi.org What part of 'ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn' don't you understand? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
John Horne wrote: On Wed, 2012-05-30 at 17:00 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Yes, lol ... I know enough about mailman that it's a cinch for the list administrator to get the headline number of subscribers. Why would you want to know such numbers? Because he doesn't like the answers we've uniformly given him for his problem, and is looking for a way to tell himself we're only a small group of snot-noses, rather than the opinionated, but experienced-to-very-experienced collection of people that we are. You're sarcasm isn't particularly good, neither is your research, judging from your apparent inability to look through list archives to find what has or hasn't been said or discussed. And then mischaracterize an individual. I also don't see that answers here have been uniform; some, even many, have been very helpful. So, thank you to those people who have taken the time to reply and discuss the issues that I've raised. MP p...@brama.com mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On Wed, 30 May 2012, Max Pyziur wrote: I also don't see that answers here have been uniform; some, even many, have been very helpful. So, thank you to those people who have taken the time to reply and discuss the issues that I've raised. You haven't raised any issues. You just asked for a couple numbers. John Horne specifically asked about the issues behind your request, a question that you've so far declined to answer. There are a many possible reasons to ask about the number of CentOS installations and the scope of its user base. Since the numbers themselves are fairly impossible to produce, it might be worth your while to let the rest of us know the concerns prompting your request. It may be that there are ways to address those concerns in ways that don't involve unavailable data. -- Paul Heinlein heinl...@madboa.com 45°38' N, 122°6' W___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On Wed, 30 May 2012, Max Pyziur wrote: I also don't see that answers here have been uniform; some, even many, have been very helpful. So, thank you to those people who have taken the time to reply and discuss the issues that I've raised. You haven't raised any issues. You just asked for a couple numbers. You are correct. On this thread, I haven't raised any issues; I've simply asked for some headline numbers: total installed base of servers, and the total number of subscribers to this list. It's just to get a sense of size. Conversely and as an example of the type of request that I am making, Fedoraproject gives you the number of times the different spins have been downloaded; the NY Times give you a ranking of articles that have been most emailed, most viewed, and the like. I think that Fedora also tries to get a sense of its user base through a registration process. I don't know how effective or accurate that is, but it does offer some possibility to make comparisons. My request has nothing to do with identities. My request stems from the fact that I've been a Linux user since the late 1990s, starting with Redhat 5.0. I'm interested in the size of the various Linux-oriented communities. MP p...@brama.com John Horne specifically asked about the issues behind your request, a question that you've so far declined to answer. There are a many possible reasons to ask about the number of CentOS installations and the scope of its user base. Since the numbers themselves are fairly impossible to produce, it might be worth your while to let the rest of us know the concerns prompting your request. It may be that there are ways to address those concerns in ways that don't involve unavailable data. -- Paul Heinlein heinl...@madboa.com 45°38' N, 122°6' W___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 5/30/2012 5:50 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote: I trust the administrators of the centos.org mailing lists not to give out any information on my subscription(s) to anyone, even including a count of it. Actually, I would really like them to clean up our email addresses from the archives. Those pages are copied throughout the net and a lot of sites change the 'me at mysite' to m...@mysite.com and it does add to issues and such. Never liked the mailman, majordomo, etc cause they all seem to love to do that...post emails on the web. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 05/30/12 3:22 PM, Max Pyziur wrote: You are correct. On this thread, I haven't raised any issues; I've simply asked for some headline numbers: total installed base of servers, and the total number of subscribers to this list. It's just to get a sense of size. Conversely and as an example of the type of request that I am making, Fedoraproject gives you the number of times the different spins have been downloaded; the NY Times give you a ranking of articles that have been most emailed, most viewed, and the like. I have no idea how many 1000s of centos installs there are around the world at my employer's sites, but I can almost guarantee you its 100s of times more than the download counts. many of these installs use internal yum repositories for updates, so access counts on the public yum mirrors would be of little use either. -- john r pierceN 37, W 122 santa cruz ca mid-left coast ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 30 May 2012 23:36, Bob Hoffman wrote: On 5/30/2012 5:50 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote: I trust the administrators of the centos.org mailing lists not to give out any information on my subscription(s) to anyone, even including a count of it. Actually, I would really like them to clean up our email addresses from the archives. Fair comment but I see a distinction between sending a mail out and exposing myself and a site administrator distributing that information w/o my knowledge unless I sign to an agreement with that provider. Obviously so far Centos.org admins have been good on that aspect. It's not only the emails that can be read by the web users really, any email replies tend to have email addresses splattered. Gmail just did for yours (and I deleted it). Anyway, now I'm definitely off-topic (even though the topic itself appears to be rubbish). ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 05/30/2012 03:36 PM, Bob Hoffman wrote: On 5/30/2012 5:50 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote: I trust the administrators of the centos.org mailing lists not to give out any information on my subscription(s) to anyone, even including a count of it. Actually, I would really like them to clean up our email addresses from the archives. Those pages are copied throughout the net and a lot of sites change the 'me at mysite' to m...@mysite.com and it does add to issues and such. Never liked the mailman, majordomo, etc cause they all seem to love to do that...post emails on the web. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos Very easy solution, create a unique email address to subscribe to the list, then add: whitelist envelope-to = unique-email-address client-hostname='regex:.*\.centos\.org' blacklist envelope-to = unique-email-address Of course you need to be running something on your mailserver to let you whitelist/blacklist on these different fields and then process whitelist and blacklist requests in the order specified. Using this method you get 0. spam messages from being subscribed to the list. As you've pointed out though, other list members can't easily send you private email. Nataraj ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Request for CentOS stats
On 5/30/2012 6:49 PM, Nataraj wrote: On 05/30/2012 03:36 PM, Bob Hoffman wrote: On 5/30/2012 5:50 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote: I trust the administrators of the centos.org mailing lists not to give out any information on my subscription(s) to anyone, even including a count of it. Actually, I would really like them to clean up our email addresses from the archives. Those pages are copied throughout the net and a lot of sites change the 'me at mysite' to m...@mysite.com and it does add to issues and such. Never liked the mailman, majordomo, etc cause they all seem to love to do that...post emails on the web. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos Very easy solution, create a unique email address to subscribe to the list, then add: whitelist envelope-to = unique-email-address client-hostname='regex:.*\.centos\.org' blacklist envelope-to = unique-email-address Of course you need to be running something on your mailserver to let you whitelist/blacklist on these different fields and then process whitelist and blacklist requests in the order specified. Using this method you get 0. spam messages from being subscribed to the list. As you've pointed out though, other list members can't easily send you private email. Nataraj ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos lol..true, except I have a few years of the old address up there.. too late. :) ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
