Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-09 Thread Drew
> I understand the advantages when using a server, but my personal
> computer is a Small Form Factor Dell GX270 with only one hard drive
> slot.  But I'll look closer into LVM options when I install on the
> bigger hard drive. Thanks.

Those examples actually came from situations I faced with a home PC. :)

I had a small VIA Epia based PC with a 40GB internal drive that I had
to expand because it didn't have enough space. I added a couple of
external USB enclosures and expanded that way. Later on I ended up
migrating the same data off the external enclosures and onto a QNAP
I'd acquired because the USB enclosures were too small.


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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-09 Thread Robert Heller
At Mon, 9 Aug 2010 04:00:27 -0500 CentOS mailing list  wrote:

> 
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Drew  wrote:
> 
> > LVM adds flexability that regular partitioning can't.
> >
> > Example 1. Say you've mounted an entire 2TB disk as /home and it's
> > almost full. Now you want to add another 2TB to /home. How do you?
> > Easiest way is with LVM. You just add the new disk into LVM's pool of
> > storage and expand the home partition (Logical volume) to use the new
> > space. Now you have a single filesystem spread across two disks.
> >
> > Example 2. Now let's say that you bought a NAS device (QNAP, Drobo,
> > Buffalo) that does iSCSI or NFS and you want to move your data off the
> > two local disks. With LVM you just add the new 'disk' into the pool
> > then tell LVM to move existing data off the 'old' disk.
> >
> > Try doing that with parted. :-P
> 
> I understand the advantages when using a server, but my personal
> computer is a Small Form Factor Dell GX270 with only one hard drive
> slot.  But I'll look closer into LVM options when I install on the
> bigger hard drive. Thanks.

I use LVM on my *laptop* with a 40 gig hard drive...  Very convientent,
esp. when I upgraded from CentOS 4.8 to CentOS 5..  My laptop
does NOT have any removable media -- that is it is NOT possible to boot
off a live CD to repartition the hard drive, so using something like
parted is not really a useful option.  I can do a PXE boot and run the
installer that way.  Is is just easier to be able to 'repartition' while
running the live system (eg doing lvcreate, lvresize, etc. as needed).

> 

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-09 Thread James Hogarth
>
> BUT, let's say you decide to allocate 10GB to /, 4GB to swap & 1GB to /tmp.
> Suddenly your / partition is full and you can't install more stuff. With LVM
> you can quickly shrink /home and increase the size of /. All on the go
> without having to reboot. I found this very handy while working on a Windows
> VM installed on my home PC, which was busy doing some video rendering and I
> didn't want to stop the rendering to increse the / partition.
>

Just a note to say this behaviour is dependant on the filesystem on
top of the LVM logical volume Some (most?) will require you to
take the mounted volume offline to shrink with not all allowing online
increasing of size... so it is important to double check the
documentation for your filesystem before carrying out such an exercise
whilst the volume is mounted... and of course as with any changes to
partitioning information and volumes ensure you have a backup of the
data when resizing (especially shrinking) in case of any corruption or
issues in the process

James
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-09 Thread Rudi Ahlers
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Ron Blizzard  wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Drew  wrote:
>
> > LVM adds flexability that regular partitioning can't.
> >
> > Example 1. Say you've mounted an entire 2TB disk as /home and it's
> > almost full. Now you want to add another 2TB to /home. How do you?
> > Easiest way is with LVM. You just add the new disk into LVM's pool of
> > storage and expand the home partition (Logical volume) to use the new
> > space. Now you have a single filesystem spread across two disks.
> >
> > Example 2. Now let's say that you bought a NAS device (QNAP, Drobo,
> > Buffalo) that does iSCSI or NFS and you want to move your data off the
> > two local disks. With LVM you just add the new 'disk' into the pool
> > then tell LVM to move existing data off the 'old' disk.
> >
> > Try doing that with parted. :-P
>
> I understand the advantages when using a server, but my personal
> computer is a Small Form Factor Dell GX270 with only one hard drive
> slot.  But I'll look closer into LVM options when I install on the
> bigger hard drive. Thanks.
>
> --
> RonB -- Using CentOS 5.5
> ___
>
>
>

Even in this case, LVM could be useful. In general, you don't want to put
everything in on large partition. What do you do with 1TB's worth of data
when you decide to upgrade CentOS 4 to 5 (as an example) or install Ubuntu?
With LVM, you simply create a 900MB LVM volume for your data and reinstall
the OS :)

BUT, let's say you decide to allocate 10GB to /, 4GB to swap & 1GB to /tmp.
Suddenly your / partition is full and you can't install more stuff. With LVM
you can quickly shrink /home and increase the size of /. All on the go
without having to reboot. I found this very handy while working on a Windows
VM installed on my home PC, which was busy doing some video rendering and I
didn't want to stop the rendering to increse the / partition.


>
> --
> Kind Regards
> Rudi Ahlers
> SoftDux
>
> Website: http://www.SoftDux.com
> Technical Blog: http://Blog.SoftDux.com
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> Cell: 082 554 7532
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-09 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Drew  wrote:

> LVM adds flexability that regular partitioning can't.
>
> Example 1. Say you've mounted an entire 2TB disk as /home and it's
> almost full. Now you want to add another 2TB to /home. How do you?
> Easiest way is with LVM. You just add the new disk into LVM's pool of
> storage and expand the home partition (Logical volume) to use the new
> space. Now you have a single filesystem spread across two disks.
>
> Example 2. Now let's say that you bought a NAS device (QNAP, Drobo,
> Buffalo) that does iSCSI or NFS and you want to move your data off the
> two local disks. With LVM you just add the new 'disk' into the pool
> then tell LVM to move existing data off the 'old' disk.
>
> Try doing that with parted. :-P

I understand the advantages when using a server, but my personal
computer is a Small Form Factor Dell GX270 with only one hard drive
slot.  But I'll look closer into LVM options when I install on the
bigger hard drive. Thanks.

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-04 Thread Michael Simpson
On 31 July 2010 14:52, Drew  wrote:
>> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
>> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
>> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
>> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
>> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
>> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
>> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
>> anyhow?
>
> LVM adds flexability that regular partitioning can't.
>

Just to add some more info to the conversation.
Yesterday i found out that if you have a modern SSD and are planning
on using RHEL6 or CentOS6 then LVM will not support the "TRIM" ATA
command thus there will be a significant decrease in the write
perfomnace of the drive with time. Linux swap will use it but the only
way to enable this feature is if your partitions are native ext4 and
you use the "discard" option.

Thus TRIM will not be enabled by a default install except for swap space.

mike
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-02 Thread Drew
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 6:35 AM, JohnS  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2010-07-31 at 05:32 -0700, Drew wrote:
>>
>> I'd still want a separate partition for /var for the SAN
>> configuration. I've seen more then one machine brought to it's knees
>> by overflowing log entries.
> ---
> I can't really argue that point there.  I've seen iptables do the same
> as also auditd.  Carefulness in log watching is the key.  You check your
> logs?
>
> John

I do. Daily emails with copies of all logs and a summary disk usage
statement of all partitions.

I learned my lesson about log files a while back. ;-)


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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-02 Thread Todd Denniston
Ron Blizzard wrote, On 07/30/2010 05:16 PM:
> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Todd Denniston
>  wrote:
> 
>> Best use for LVM I have seen...
>> Reducing the number of times you need to enter the LUKS pass phrase to once 
>> per boot, i.e., one LUKS
>> containing an LVM of / and Swap so that the system can boot with one entry 
>> of the pass phrase and if
>> you then have other partitions, such as an independent /home, /etc/crypttab 
>> can be used (with
>> appropriately constructed and protected cryptpassphrase files).
> 
> At this point I don't even know what a LUKS pass phrase is -- is this
> something I'm liable to run into on a home desktop computer?
> 

Depends on how much you value not letting other folks at your data, with out 
your permission after
you have properly powered down the machine. :)

LUKS is used with encrypted partitions/filesystems.  I have only used it at the 
partition level.
It is most easily setup at install time, because anaconda gets the incantations 
correct for you.

Suggested further reading:
http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/EncryptedFilesystem
http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/EncryptedFilesystem/Scripts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Unified_Key_Setup

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-08-01 Thread JohnS

On Sat, 2010-07-31 at 05:32 -0700, Drew wrote:
> > Yea the default works but how is it Plain Wrong?  If it was flat out
> > wrong then Upstream would not allow it.  Raid 1 disk array with one hot
> > spare on a hardware raid controller under a SAN server is what you
> > saying is wrong?  Case is, the array is not using /home or /var; were
> > only exporting nfs luns direct attached.  What on earth and why would I
> > want to have another drive for /var &/home in this case.  I'm just
> > asking but not arguing.  There are cases where it works exceptionally.
> > In fact my opinion is it works nice for newbies, untill they gets a lil
> > experience.
> 
> I'd still want a separate partition for /var for the SAN
> configuration. I've seen more then one machine brought to it's knees
> by overflowing log entries.
---
I can't really argue that point there.  I've seen iptables do the same
as also auditd.  Carefulness in log watching is the key.  You check your
logs? 

John

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-31 Thread Drew
> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
> anyhow?

LVM adds flexability that regular partitioning can't.

Example 1. Say you've mounted an entire 2TB disk as /home and it's
almost full. Now you want to add another 2TB to /home. How do you?
Easiest way is with LVM. You just add the new disk into LVM's pool of
storage and expand the home partition (Logical volume) to use the new
space. Now you have a single filesystem spread across two disks.

Example 2. Now let's say that you bought a NAS device (QNAP, Drobo,
Buffalo) that does iSCSI or NFS and you want to move your data off the
two local disks. With LVM you just add the new 'disk' into the pool
then tell LVM to move existing data off the 'old' disk.

Try doing that with parted. :-P

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-31 Thread Drew
> Yea the default works but how is it Plain Wrong?  If it was flat out
> wrong then Upstream would not allow it.  Raid 1 disk array with one hot
> spare on a hardware raid controller under a SAN server is what you
> saying is wrong?  Case is, the array is not using /home or /var; were
> only exporting nfs luns direct attached.  What on earth and why would I
> want to have another drive for /var &/home in this case.  I'm just
> asking but not arguing.  There are cases where it works exceptionally.
> In fact my opinion is it works nice for newbies, untill they gets a lil
> experience.

I'd still want a separate partition for /var for the SAN
configuration. I've seen more then one machine brought to it's knees
by overflowing log entries.



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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread JohnS

On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 17:32 -0400, Robert Heller wrote:
> Yes, the *default* setup is just plain wrong, and in general should NOT
> be used. Yes, the default works (one big happy filesystem), and
> actually might make sense for a virtual server, but otherwise no. See 

Yea the default works but how is it Plain Wrong?  If it was flat out
wrong then Upstream would not allow it.  Raid 1 disk array with one hot
spare on a hardware raid controller under a SAN server is what you
saying is wrong?  Case is, the array is not using /home or /var; were
only exporting nfs luns direct attached.  What on earth and why would I
want to have another drive for /var &/home in this case.  I'm just
asking but not arguing.  There are cases where it works exceptionally.
In fact my opinion is it works nice for newbies, untill they gets a lil
experience.

> http://www.deepsoft.com/2006/03/partitioning-for-linux/

With number one I do not agree.  You can install apps under winblows in
any location.  Not every Unix/Linux system has the same file layout.
Debian vs CentOS

John

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Robert Heller
At Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:07:39 -0500 CentOS mailing list  
wrote:

> 
> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Juergen Gotteswinter  
> wrote:
> 
> > * snaphotting (great for db backup)
> > * resizing partition
> > * "online" partitioning
> 
> I didn't know LVM would do snapshots -- I'll have to look into that.
> But I'm guessing the feature is pretty much worthless if the whole
> hard drive is taken up by one LVM partition -- which has been my
> CentOS default setups.

Yes, the *default* setup is just plain wrong, and in general should NOT
be used. Yes, the default works (one big happy filesystem), and
actually might make sense for a virtual server, but otherwise no. See 

http://www.deepsoft.com/2006/03/partitioning-for-linux/

for some thoughts on partitioning for Linux (also applies to LVM volumes).

> 
> Thanks.
> 

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Whit Blauvelt
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 04:11:17PM -0500, Ron Blizzard wrote:

> Is there any way to mount an LVM partition from another Linux distribution?

Yes. They all support it. You might have to install a package for it, but
it's been standard for a few years pretty much across the board.

Whit
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Todd Denniston
 wrote:

> Best use for LVM I have seen...
> Reducing the number of times you need to enter the LUKS pass phrase to once 
> per boot, i.e., one LUKS
> containing an LVM of / and Swap so that the system can boot with one entry of 
> the pass phrase and if
> you then have other partitions, such as an independent /home, /etc/crypttab 
> can be used (with
> appropriately constructed and protected cryptpassphrase files).

At this point I don't even know what a LUKS pass phrase is -- is this
something I'm liable to run into on a home desktop computer?

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Benjamin Franz  wrote:

> You can use LVM for taking snapshots as well (very useful if you want to
> quiesce databases for the shortest possible time for backups) .  And you
> can use LVM to migrate data from an old drive to a new one or even to
> *shrink* a partition. I've never found LVM to 'be a pain'. 99% of the
> time it's invisible, and 1% of the time it's indispensable.

I guess my ignorance is showing. It could also be that the small hard
drives that I usually use with CentOS really can't take advantage of
this feature. So far I haven't done much with servers, but I have been
experimenting with Asterisk and plan to work through the "Foundations
of CentOS" -- so that should change.

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Robert Heller  wrote:

> LVM has a number of useful features and advantages.  The 'default'
> RedHat/CentOS LVM setup (basically creating one LVM volume taking up all
> available space for the root file system), is pretty useless.  With
> modern *large* disks.  LVM (if set up properly) allows creating and/or
> resizing logical disks without having to shutdown and/or rebooting the
> system.  This is often usefull for installing virtual processes (eg with
> xen).

Thanks. I don't know if my 160 Gig hard drive would qualify as a
modern *large* disk or not, but it's definitely bigger than the
current 20 Gig one.  I thought an external USB drive would work fine,
but I'm finding the current situation is too cramped.

Is there any way to mount an LVM partition from another Linux distribution?

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Juergen Gotteswinter  wrote:

> * snaphotting (great for db backup)
> * resizing partition
> * "online" partitioning

I didn't know LVM would do snapshots -- I'll have to look into that.
But I'm guessing the feature is pretty much worthless if the whole
hard drive is taken up by one LVM partition -- which has been my
CentOS default setups.

Thanks.

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Fajar Priyanto  wrote:

> You don't need LVM if you don't plan to expand the filesystem (or a
> particular mount point).

Okay, thanks. By reading the responses, it appears the very least I
should do is not let CentOS do a standard setup -- in other words I
should save some space on the hard drive.

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Todd Denniston
Ron Blizzard wrote, On 07/30/2010 01:37 AM:
> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
> anyhow?
> 
> Thanks for any pointers.
> 

Best use for LVM I have seen...
Reducing the number of times you need to enter the LUKS pass phrase to once per 
boot, i.e., one LUKS
containing an LVM of / and Swap so that the system can boot with one entry of 
the pass phrase and if
you then have other partitions, such as an independent /home, /etc/crypttab can 
be used (with
appropriately constructed and protected cryptpassphrase files).

-- 
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Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane)
Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Benjamin Franz
On 07/29/2010 10:57 PM, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Ron Blizzard  wrote:
>
>> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
>> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
>> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
>> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
>> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
>> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
>> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
>> anyhow?
>>  
> You don't need LVM if you don't plan to expand the filesystem (or a
> particular mount point).
>

You can use LVM for taking snapshots as well (very useful if you want to 
quiesce databases for the shortest possible time for backups) .  And you 
can use LVM to migrate data from an old drive to a new one or even to 
*shrink* a partition. I've never found LVM to 'be a pain'. 99% of the 
time it's invisible, and 1% of the time it's indispensable.

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Robert Heller
At Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:37:21 -0500 CentOS mailing list  
wrote:

> 
> In my old computer I have a much bigger hard drive then in this one --
> and I plan to hand that old computer down to one of my sons -- keeping
> his current drive from an even older computer. Currently the hard
> drive on my old computer has SuSE Linux, but that will go. I'll
> rebuild CentOS 5.5 on it, but I want to leave some free space for
> whatever comes up and also dual-boot Vector Linux. Which, at last,
> brings me to the question...
> 
> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
> anyhow?

LVM has a number of useful features and advantages.  The 'default'
RedHat/CentOS LVM setup (basically creating one LVM volume taking up all
available space for the root file system), is pretty useless.  With
modern *large* disks.  LVM (if set up properly) allows creating and/or
resizing logical disks without having to shutdown and/or rebooting the
system.  This is often usefull for installing virtual processes (eg with
xen). 

> 
> Thanks for any pointers.
> 

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-30 Thread Juergen Gotteswinter
On 07/30/2010 07:37 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote:
> In my old computer I have a much bigger hard drive then in this one --
> and I plan to hand that old computer down to one of my sons -- keeping
> his current drive from an even older computer. Currently the hard
> drive on my old computer has SuSE Linux, but that will go. I'll
> rebuild CentOS 5.5 on it, but I want to leave some free space for
> whatever comes up and also dual-boot Vector Linux. Which, at last,
> brings me to the question...
>
> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
> anyhow?
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
>

* snaphotting (great for db backup)
* resizing partition
* "online" partitioning

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Re: [CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-29 Thread Fajar Priyanto
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Ron Blizzard  wrote:
> Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
> CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
> the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
> install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
> partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
> to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
> something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
> anyhow?

You don't need LVM if you don't plan to expand the filesystem (or a
particular mount point).
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[CentOS] When should LVM be used?

2010-07-29 Thread Ron Blizzard
In my old computer I have a much bigger hard drive then in this one --
and I plan to hand that old computer down to one of my sons -- keeping
his current drive from an even older computer. Currently the hard
drive on my old computer has SuSE Linux, but that will go. I'll
rebuild CentOS 5.5 on it, but I want to leave some free space for
whatever comes up and also dual-boot Vector Linux. Which, at last,
brings me to the question...

Is there any reason to use LVM on a personal desktop install of
CentOS? It seems to me, for my purposes, that LVM is just a pain in
the neck -- although I've always just let CentOS set it up during the
install in the past.  I would like to be able to use parted to resize
partitions when I want to, and also I'd like Vector Linux to be able
to read and write data to the CentOS partition. Would I be missing
something by not installing LVM, or is this mostly for server purposes
anyhow?

Thanks for any pointers.

-- 
RonB -- Using CentOS 5.5
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