Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tuesday, July 20, 2010 08:08:43 pm Robert Heller wrote: > 'Little' Dell PowerEdge servers with plain (non-RAID) SATA disks > appearently work that way too (same BIOS stupidity I guess). Once they > see a disk, they assume it will *always* be there. If you pull the > disk for some reason (disk failure for example), it complains about a > missing disk. I actually consider that a feature, not stupidity. With SATA cables that don't have latches still common, it is all too easy for a cable to fall out (have seen it happen on a Precision 690, and it was a SAS drive not SATA; also have seen it happen with a whitebox with a 3ware 9550 RAID controller, where a SATA cable vibrated loose). I'd rather the box stop booting and then tell me about it than boot anyway. And I like SATA cables with latches. I personally would prefer the box to stop and halt boot if the intrusion switch had latched; but only with LOM, DRAC, serial redirect, or IPMI in place to remote console. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
> Well, they would not even let you pay for it and overnight it to you > then send the old one back for another drive so you could break even? It's > an utmost priority if you have all common hardware to keep replacement disks > on site no matter who you work for or company. Which is why you'll always find spares of the most commonly used drives & components on the shelf in my tech room at work. SCSI, SATA & even IDE. All ready to be pulled, "in the event." Master images (w/ 2 spare's pre-imaged) are kept for certain plant PC's where downtime can run in the tens of thousands of $$$, per day, when we're down. -- Drew "Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood." --Marie Curie ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 20:08 -0400, Robert Heller wrote: > > Which makes me wonder why would you ever shut it down in the first > > place? I sure would not wait a week on a disk replacement much less > > more than 24 hours. > > First of all WD was not going to send us a new disk unless we sent the > old one in first -- the disks are not in hot swap bays, so I had > 'remove' the bad disk from the RAID sets and shut down the machine to > remove it. Well, they would not even let you pay for it and overnight it to you then send the old one back for another drive so you could break even? It's an utmost priority if you have all common hardware to keep replacement disks on site no matter who you work for or company. > Second, we had a couple of power failures (yes, we have a UPS, but that > is only good enough for a graceful shutdown, not for an extended power > outage). Those happen no way around it beside generator power and plenty of backup fuel. > The machine was only shutdown because we *had* to shut it down. > > The server is not a 'critical' server, in the sense that it has to have > near 100% uptime. It is not public facing server in that sense. Well, I fired a guy that worked for me for that exact thing. Thing was he never had to shut it down to swap the disks. In other words I go nuts if a machine has to shutdown because I'm the one left explaining why. John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 06:26:15PM -0400, Bob McConnell wrote: > Stephen Harris wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 03:31:48PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: > >> This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > >> PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > > > > This decade being the 2010s? :-) > > The calendar is '1' based. 2010 is the last year of the first decade in > the 21st century. Someone give this guy a calendar and teach him the difference between decades and centuries. -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:34:17AM -1000, Dave wrote: > Thanks for all the discussion, but keyboard is not the issue. Of course it isn't. It's probably that you've configured the BIOS to mirror the two disks, and with one disk missing it's bitching and moaning at you. The whole keyboard chatter is because your problem is totally off-topic for this list, so we've taken it and ran with it as we wished. -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:40:25 -0400 CentOS mailing list wrote: > > > On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 16:26 -0400, Robert Heller wrote: > > > > > A PowerEdge with plain old SATA disks will complain about a missing disk > > as well -- we had a disk die and everytime it booted while we waited for > > the replacement it would stop complaining that the disk was missing (we > > had software RAID and were able to stay up with a 'degraded' RAID set > > for the week or so it took to get the replacemnt). > --- > Which makes me wonder why would you ever shut it down in the first > place? I sure would not wait a week on a disk replacement much less > more than 24 hours. First of all WD was not going to send us a new disk unless we sent the old one in first -- the disks are not in hot swap bays, so I had 'remove' the bad disk from the RAID sets and shut down the machine to remove it. Second, we had a couple of power failures (yes, we have a UPS, but that is only good enough for a graceful shutdown, not for an extended power outage). The machine was only shutdown because we *had* to shut it down. The server is not a 'critical' server, in the sense that it has to have near 100% uptime. It is not public facing server in that sense. > > John > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:38:32 -0400 (EDT) CentOS mailing list wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 at 11:34am, Dave wrote > > > Thanks for all the discussion, but keyboard is not the issue. > > > > I guess I should edit the bios settings and look for a way to tell it "hey, > > you've only got one disk now, be happy." > > All Dell desktops I've dealt with (including the Precision T3400 I use > now) require you to go into the BIOS and explicitly tell you which busses > (IDE before, SATA now) have disks attached to them. If you don't tell it > about a disk you do have, the disk won't appear to the OS. And if you do > tell it about a disk you don't have, then the boot will hang complaining > about a missing disk. It's asinine and I've never seen any other BIOS > like it. But it's consistent. I've never dealt with Dell's server > hardware, so I have on idea if they do the same thing there (dear God I > hope not). 'Little' Dell PowerEdge servers with plain (non-RAID) SATA disks appearently work that way too (same BIOS stupidity I guess). Once they see a disk, they assume it will *always* be there. If you pull the disk for some reason (disk failure for example), it complains about a missing disk. *I* didn't bother looking in the BIOS to shut it up, since I planned on replacing the missing disk in a week or so anyway (just a matter of waiting on WD and UPS...) > > In any case, yes, you must go into the BIOS and explicitly enumerate your > disks there. > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
Stephen Harris wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 03:31:48PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: >> This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about >> PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > > This decade being the 2010s? :-) The calendar is '1' based. 2010 is the last year of the first decade in the 21st century. Bob McConnell N2SPP ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 at 11:34am, Dave wrote > Thanks for all the discussion, but keyboard is not the issue. > > I guess I should edit the bios settings and look for a way to tell it "hey, > you've only got one disk now, be happy." All Dell desktops I've dealt with (including the Precision T3400 I use now) require you to go into the BIOS and explicitly tell you which busses (IDE before, SATA now) have disks attached to them. If you don't tell it about a disk you do have, the disk won't appear to the OS. And if you do tell it about a disk you don't have, then the boot will hang complaining about a missing disk. It's asinine and I've never seen any other BIOS like it. But it's consistent. I've never dealt with Dell's server hardware, so I have on idea if they do the same thing there (dear God I hope not). In any case, yes, you must go into the BIOS and explicitly enumerate your disks there. -- Joshua Baker-LePain QB3 Shared Cluster Sysadmin UCSF ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
Thanks for all the discussion, but keyboard is not the issue. I guess I should edit the bios settings and look for a way to tell it "hey, you've only got one disk now, be happy." best, Dave ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Lamar Owen wrote: > The answer depends on what kind of Dell this is. Is it a PowerEdge server? > Some sort of embedded RAID controller (PowerEdge and Precision workstations > both have those)? More information required to fully answer. > Precision WorkStation 490. Dave ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 16:26 -0400, Robert Heller wrote: > > A PowerEdge with plain old SATA disks will complain about a missing disk > as well -- we had a disk die and everytime it booted while we waited for > the replacement it would stop complaining that the disk was missing (we > had software RAID and were able to stay up with a 'degraded' RAID set > for the week or so it took to get the replacemnt). --- Which makes me wonder why would you ever shut it down in the first place? I sure would not wait a week on a disk replacement much less more than 24 hours. John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:50:34 -0400 CentOS mailing list wrote: > > On Tuesday, July 20, 2010 02:56:16 pm Dave wrote: > > I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, but I > > removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and > > outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit F1 to > > get it to continue booting. > > The answer depends on what kind of Dell this is. Is it a PowerEdge server? > Some sort of embedded RAID controller (PowerEdge and Precision workstations > both have those)? More information required to fully answer. > > A Dimension desktop shouldn't have this issue, but a PowerEdge or Precision > with PERC or CERC set up will have this issue, and you need to access the > controller's setup to tell it the other disk is gone. A PowerEdge with plain old SATA disks will complain about a missing disk as well -- we had a disk die and everytime it booted while we waited for the replacement it would stop complaining that the disk was missing (we had software RAID and were able to stay up with a 'degraded' RAID set for the week or so it took to get the replacemnt). > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:31:48 -0400 CentOS mailing list wrote: > > Robert Heller wrote: > > At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:56:16 -1000 CentOS mailing list > > wrote: > >> > >> I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, > >> but I removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops > and > >> outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit > >> F1 to get it to continue booting. > >> > >> Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it > > > Dell servers seem to be wonky about this sort of thing (older ones would > > not boot without a keyboard installed, even if they were esentually > > 'headless'). I am not sure how to deal with this. It seems to be a > > Dell-specific BIOS hack of some sort (and a *dumb* one at that). > > This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. Almost *ALL* PCs *I've* ever dealt with had an 'Halt on no error' BIOS option, going back well into the early '90s. Yes, it would complain that there was no keyboard, but would boot anyway. The Dell 'server' I dealt with could be set to 'Halt on no error' (I think), but would still refuse to boot unless I keyboard was attached. > > mark "tease me about my age, and I'll beat you with my cane!" > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:49:23 +0100 CentOS mailing list wrote: > > > This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. > > Nah! Every BIOS since I remember (at least from 1990) had a choice on > the first page, Standard BIOS Setup. "Halt on all errors, Halt on > keyboard/video errors, Halt on no errors". At least these three were > always present. > > Of course the default is always "Halt on all errors". Unless you modify > the settings on purpose, that's what happens. And some *early* Dell *servers* (*late* 1990s -- 1998 or so), would *always* halt on keyboard errors, with no option to suppress this. > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 15:31 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: > Robert Heller wrote: > > At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:56:16 -1000 CentOS mailing list > > wrote: > >> > >> I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, > >> but I removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops > and > >> outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit > >> F1 to get it to continue booting. > >> > >> Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it > > > Dell servers seem to be wonky about this sort of thing (older ones would > > not boot without a keyboard installed, even if they were esentually > > 'headless'). I am not sure how to deal with this. It seems to be a > > Dell-specific BIOS hack of some sort (and a *dumb* one at that). > > This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. I have been using "old" ( some folks might say "antique" ) desktop machines as firewalls/fileservers for a handful of friends for the better part of 10 years now. This goes back to old Dell GXi boxes ( Pentium 166 ) and homebuilt AMD K-6 systems. In ALL cases, I was able to configure the BIOS settings such that the system would boot without a keyboard connected. AFAIR all of those systems had a single setting to avoid a halt of the boot process because of a missing keyboard, and we're talking about BIOS versions back to around 1997. > > mark "tease me about my age, and I'll beat you with my cane!" > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Ron Loftin relof...@twcny.rr.com "God, root, what is difference ?" Piter from UserFriendly ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tuesday, July 20, 2010 03:50:39 pm Stephen Harris wrote: > I'm sure sufficient googling would find even older examples. Yep, especially single-board computers (typically ISA capable, but also capable of not being in a slot (like an Advantech PCA-6145 i486 board used in lots of embedded PC applications). > Of course modern PCs may not even _have_ a keyboard port; USB only! Some microfootprint Gateways in the Celeron 900 timeframe had USB-only for keyboard and mouse, and I still collect USB Gateway keyboards from that era that have embedded two port USB hubs, so you can plug the mouse into the keyboard and the keyboard in the system unit; this is the One True Way pioneered by Sun boxen using serial keyboards and mice, remember? (tongue firmly in cheek). There are Dell keyboards like that, too. Macs have been that way for years, too. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
> This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot > *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. > Nah! Every BIOS since I remember (at least from 1990) had a choice on the first page, Standard BIOS Setup. "Halt on all errors, Halt on keyboard/video errors, Halt on no errors". At least these three were always present. Of course the default is always "Halt on all errors". Unless you modify the settings on purpose, that's what happens. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tuesday, July 20, 2010 02:56:16 pm Dave wrote: > I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, but I > removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and > outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit F1 to > get it to continue booting. The answer depends on what kind of Dell this is. Is it a PowerEdge server? Some sort of embedded RAID controller (PowerEdge and Precision workstations both have those)? More information required to fully answer. A Dimension desktop shouldn't have this issue, but a PowerEdge or Precision with PERC or CERC set up will have this issue, and you need to access the controller's setup to tell it the other disk is gone. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 03:31:48PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: > This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about > PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot This decade being the 2010s? :-) > *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. It's true that really old PCs couldn't boot without a keyboard which lead to the joke "Keyboard missing. Press F1 to continue" However the change to the hardware to allow a keyboardless boot came in a lot longer than a decade ago. It might have been with the 386 based hardware, but I really can't remember. I know I had a PC built in the 90s which has a BIOS option to halt on all errors, or halt on all errors except keyboard. Here's a PDF from 1998 showing the option http://www.elhvb.com/mboards/luckytech/P6BX2.pdf I'm sure sufficient googling would find even older examples. Of course modern PCs may not even _have_ a keyboard port; USB only! -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. Nah! Every BIOS since I remember (at least from 1990) had a choice on the first page, Standard BIOS Setup. "Halt on all errors, Halt on keyboard/video errors, Halt on no errors". At least these three were always present. Of course the default is always "Halt on all errors". Unless you modify the settings on purpose, that's what happens. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
Robert Heller wrote: > At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:56:16 -1000 CentOS mailing list > wrote: >> >> I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, >> but I removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and >> outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit >> F1 to get it to continue booting. >> >> Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it > Dell servers seem to be wonky about this sort of thing (older ones would > not boot without a keyboard installed, even if they were esentually > 'headless'). I am not sure how to deal with this. It seems to be a > Dell-specific BIOS hack of some sort (and a *dumb* one at that). This is not a "Dell-specific BIOS hack". Dear child, ask your folks about PCs. I think it was only this decade that PCs would actually boot *without* a keyboard. EVERY PC EVER MADE before would not. mark "tease me about my age, and I'll beat you with my cane!" ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
At Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:56:16 -1000 CentOS mailing list wrote: > > > > I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, but I > removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and > outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit F1 to > get it to continue booting. > > Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it to > just forget about the missing disk and go ahead and boot with just one, the > one that was present when I installed the OS. I want to RTFM, but I'm not > really certain where to start, it's outside my comfort zone. Dell servers seem to be wonky about this sort of thing (older ones would not boot without a keyboard installed, even if they were esentually 'headless'). I am not sure how to deal with this. It seems to be a Dell-specific BIOS hack of some sort (and a *dumb* one at that). > > mahalo, > Dave > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > ___ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
> I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, but I > removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and > outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit F1 to > get it to continue booting. > > Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it to > just forget about the missing disk and go ahead and boot with just one, the > one that was present when I installed the OS. I want to RTFM, but I'm not > really certain where to start, it's outside my comfort zone. Did you check: /etc/fstab Matt ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] boot process glitch due to missing 2nd disk
I just installed centos on a Dell that used to have 2 internal disks, but I removed one just before the install. Now when I boot it, it stops and outputs a message complaining about the missing disk and I have to hit F1 to get it to continue booting. Is there some bios setting that is causing this? Obviously, I'd like it to just forget about the missing disk and go ahead and boot with just one, the one that was present when I installed the OS. I want to RTFM, but I'm not really certain where to start, it's outside my comfort zone. mahalo, Dave ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
