subject:"Re\: \[CentOS\] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users"

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gé Weijers g...@weijers.org wrote:
 One throat to choke, as Scott McNealy used to say.

Hehe, never heard that one. Cool guy Scott... too bad Sun had to go up for sale.
I have my own version a single person (or firm) to yell at

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread m . roth

Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gé Weijers g...@weijers.org wrote:
 One throat to choke, as Scott McNealy used to say.

 Hehe, never heard that one. Cool guy Scott... too bad Sun had to go up for
 sale.
 I have my own version a single person (or firm) to yell at

I agree. It was a real shame when Sun went on the block. But then, back in
the nineties, I loved Sun 3 and Solaris. Most of this decade, though,
Linux has become even friendlier and more useful to me.

But then, I thought it was a real cryin' shame when DEC went down, and got
eaten by Compaq (gag!). I remember DEC and the seven dwarfs, I think it
was.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:38 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 I agree. It was a real shame when Sun went on the block. But then, back in
 the nineties, I loved Sun 3 and Solaris. Most of this decade, though,
 Linux has become even friendlier and more useful to me.

Sun JDS Linux was damn good (included Java and StarOffice preloaded,
and a cool Gnome theme).

I used (purchased!) both JDS Linux 2003 and JDS Linux R2.
JDS Linux R3 was in beta by the time the Solaris militia won the
internal battle / turf war and JDS Linux was canceled.

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread Gé Weijers

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sun JDS Linux was damn good (included Java and StarOffice preloaded,
 and a cool Gnome theme).

 I used (purchased!) both JDS Linux 2003 and JDS Linux R2.
 JDS Linux R3 was in beta by the time the Solaris militia won the
 internal battle / turf war and JDS Linux was canceled.

A lack of paying customers had something to do with that too :-(
I remember debugging bootstrap loader issues on JDS.

Disclosure: I worked for Sun from 2000-2005, mostly on Linux-related
stuff, e.g. http://sosc-dr.sun.com/blueprints/1103/817-4403.pdf
It was a great company to work for while it lasted.

-- 
Gé
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread m . roth

Gé Weijers wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Sun JDS Linux was damn good (included Java and StarOffice preloaded,
 and a cool Gnome theme).

 I used (purchased!) both JDS Linux 2003 and JDS Linux R2.
 JDS Linux R3 was in beta by the time the Solaris militia won the
 internal battle / turf war and JDS Linux was canceled.

 A lack of paying customers had something to do with that too :-(
 I remember debugging bootstrap loader issues on JDS.

 Disclosure: I worked for Sun from 2000-2005, mostly on Linux-related
 stuff, e.g. http://sosc-dr.sun.com/blueprints/1103/817-4403.pdf
 It was a great company to work for while it lasted.

The first time I was doing sysadmin work was on a sparcserver, back in
'95-'97, and I really, really liked that box. I agree, it was a real
shame.

Btw, back when I was working on it, we ran into an error message that *no*
one has ever heard of before: we had a ton of young consultants, coding,
testing and debugging 12-16 hrs/day, and if a debug session hung, they
just killed the window. (They were on PCs running...mmm, I can't remember
if we were on Win 3 or NT, but we were using Hummingbird.) Late one night,
with a ton of zombies, another guy and I spent nearly an hour killing
zombies (which we could actually do), because in their debugging sessions,
they saw an error message that read spider message (and I forget the
rest of it).

Ever heard of anything like it?

mark

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread Les Mikesell

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:52 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:

 The first time I was doing sysadmin work was on a sparcserver, back in
 '95-'97, and I really, really liked that box. I agree, it was a real
 shame.

Yeah, but fast forward another year or two and you had an extremely
buggy OS (not a problem by itself, everything was back then) and it
was cheaper to go buy a faster PC and run linux than it would have
been to get the bugfixes for the OS.  What did they expect to happen?

-- 
   Les Mikesell
 lesmikes...@gmail.com
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread m . roth

Les Mikesell wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:52 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:

 The first time I was doing sysadmin work was on a sparcserver, back in
 '95-'97, and I really, really liked that box. I agree, it was a real
 shame.

 Yeah, but fast forward another year or two and you had an extremely
 buggy OS (not a problem by itself, everything was back then) and it
 was cheaper to go buy a faster PC and run linux than it would have
 been to get the bugfixes for the OS.  What did they expect to happen?

Not in the mid/late nineties. Sun 3 was nice and solid (I used it, along
with Irix mostly, through the early/mid-nineties). Solaris 6.3 == Sun 3;
Solaris 6.4 was the next release, and was perfectly fine and solid.

By the late nineties, RH 5.2 was nice and solid, and I was running that at
home.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread John R Pierce

On 07/24/12 1:08 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
 Yeah, but fast forward another year or two and you had an extremely
 buggy OS

I've managed development servers running pretty much all of the Solaris 
releases from 2.6 (SunOS 5.6) to Solaris 10 (SunOS 5.10), and if there 
were bugs, they sure didn't affect our operations. We were primarily 
using Solaris as a Oracle database and Java application host.



-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread Les Mikesell

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:45 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 
 The first time I was doing sysadmin work was on a sparcserver, back in
 '95-'97, and I really, really liked that box. I agree, it was a real
 shame.

 Yeah, but fast forward another year or two and you had an extremely
 buggy OS (not a problem by itself, everything was back then) and it
 was cheaper to go buy a faster PC and run linux than it would have
 been to get the bugfixes for the OS.  What did they expect to happen?

 Not in the mid/late nineties. Sun 3 was nice and solid (I used it, along
 with Irix mostly, through the early/mid-nineties). Solaris 6.3 == Sun 3;
 Solaris 6.4 was the next release, and was perfectly fine and solid.

I was stuck with some version of Solaris 5, expired support and no
free bug fixes.

 By the late nineties, RH 5.2 was nice and solid, and I was running that at
 home.

At some point, our mailserver broke and I copied the sendmail configs
over to a linux box, restored some backups to it and never looked
back.Wasn't really happy with RH until 7.3, but that was rock
solid.

-- 
  Les Mikesell
lesmikes...@gmail.com
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread Les Mikesell

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:03 PM, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote:
 On 07/24/12 1:08 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
 Yeah, but fast forward another year or two and you had an extremely
 buggy OS

 I've managed development servers running pretty much all of the Solaris
 releases from 2.6 (SunOS 5.6) to Solaris 10 (SunOS 5.10), and if there
 were bugs, they sure didn't affect our operations.

Anything closely related to SysVr4 had to be buggy in the early days.
It was a fantastic design but sort of thrown together.  You probably
stayed up to date with bugs fixed as they were found, but what did it
cost you to go past Solaris 5.x?

 We were primarily
 using Solaris as a Oracle database and Java application host.

Linux wasn't all that great at Java then - you made the right choice.

-- 
   Les Mikesell
 lesmikes...@gmail.com
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread John R Pierce

On 07/24/12 2:25 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
 We were primarily
 using Solaris as a Oracle database and Java application host.
 Linux wasn't all that great at Java then - you made the right choice.

early Linux was absolutely wretched at storage management if you had 
more than a couple direct attached disks.   fiberchannel multipathing?  
hah.   ext2fs fsck on reboot after a crash when you have dozens of SAN 
volumes totaling a few terabytes ?   meh.





-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-24 Thread Stephen Harris

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 04:45:47PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 with Irix mostly, through the early/mid-nineties). Solaris 6.3 == Sun 3;
 Solaris 6.4 was the next release, and was perfectly fine and solid.

There was no Solaris 6.3 or 6.4.  Sun 3 was a hardware platform (pre
Sparc)!

The SysV variants went
  Solaris 2, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, 8, 9, 10,... splat

FWIW, the Solaris name started as a marketing thing as being the
OS plus window manager, or Operating Environment.  SunOS 4 finally
got rebranded as Solaris 1.x; I still have Solaris 1.1.1 which (from
the box) contains both SunOS 4.1.3_U1 and OpenWindows Version 3_U1.
Solaris 2 was the SysV variant and has SunOS 5.x OS plus so, for example,
Solaris 2.4 had a 5.4 OS and kernel, plus other stuff (eg openwindows,
deskset etc etc).  You can still see it in uname output, today.

Solaris 2.4 was mostly stable (I hit a few mbuf issues on Netra 5's).
Solaris 2.5.1 ran pretty well (I used it on Ultra 1 and Ultra 1+ machines,
then Ultra 2's).  Solaris 2.6 worked well.  Solaris 7 was a disaster.
Solaris 8 was very stable.  Solaris 9 I kinda skipped.  Solaris 10 was
too little, too late.

(In my basement I have Solaris 1.1.1, 2.4, 2.5, 2.5.1, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10; all
but 2.5.1 are original in-box distributions)

-- 

rgds
Stephen
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Stephen Harris li...@spuddy.org wrote:
 (In my basement I have Solaris 1.1.1, 2.4, 2.5, 2.5.1, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10; all
 but 2.5.1 are original in-box distributions)

You're the right man, then, whom I should ask about the elusive Sun
Bandwidth Manager (bwmgr) that someone at Sun Micro once mailed to me
on a shiny CD and that I manged to lose while moving. I wonder if
someone might have a spare CD that could show up on eBay someday... ;)

Apparently nobody at ORCL knows about the elusive stand-alone product
after bandwidth management was integrated into later Solaris OS
versions by Sun...

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:02 PM, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote:
   ext2fs fsck on reboot after a crash when you have dozens of SAN
 volumes totaling a few terabytes ?   meh.

You mention ext2fs and I get cold sweath down my spine...
I lost an awful lot of data due to ext2 fsck...

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-23 Thread Craig White


On Jul 20, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote:

 While I will not be petty enough to post a Migration script from Oracle
 Linux to CentOS (I can't believe they posted that ... REALLY?), I will
 likely help anyone who asks me for help with that specific migration.

I wouldn't describe your doing so as petty but rather providing a useful option 
as it seems certain that more users would find it useful to migrate from OEL 
-- CentOS than the other way but it is after all, about options.

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-23 Thread Timothy Murphy

Fernando Cassia wrote:

 I don' t think that would happen anytime soon. AFAIK if you check
 distrowatch Oracle Linux ranks #50 and CentOS ranks #8.
 
 Also, I read somewhere that ORCL has 8,000 paid custmers to their
 Linux subscription hardly a major player still.
 But like I said, the more competition wrt pricing the better.

Be difficult to beat CentOS on price, surely?

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin


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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-23 Thread Cliff Pratt

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote:
 Fernando Cassia wrote:

 I don' t think that would happen anytime soon. AFAIK if you check
 distrowatch Oracle Linux ranks #50 and CentOS ranks #8.

 Also, I read somewhere that ORCL has 8,000 paid custmers to their
 Linux subscription hardly a major player still.
 But like I said, the more competition wrt pricing the better.

 Be difficult to beat CentOS on price, surely?

RedHat and Oracle both provide value-add services. THAT is what you pay for.

Cheers,

Cliff
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-22 Thread Gordon Messmer

On 07/20/2012 08:12 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 And I*love*  the chart... never mind that RH changed the build structure
 to give Oracle pain, and it hurt us

That change affects Oracle because they update and modify the kernel. 
Since it's not pristine + patches like other SRPMs, Oracle has a moving 
target and may need to manually fix each of the patches that they apply.

CentOS simply rebuilds the package, and I'm reasonably certain that I 
recall statements from the CentOS maintainers that Red Hat's changes 
don't affect their process.  I don't think your argument holds water.
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-22 Thread Hakan Koseoglu

On 22 July 2012 20:02, Gordon Messmer yiny...@eburg.com wrote:
 On 07/20/2012 08:12 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 And I*love*  the chart... never mind that RH changed the build structure
 to give Oracle pain, and it hurt us
 That change affects Oracle because they update and modify the kernel.
 Since it's not pristine + patches like other SRPMs, Oracle has a moving
 target and may need to manually fix each of the patches that they apply.
As I understand, that's not exactly true. They have two kernels, UEK
which is not even the same version as the upstream and the one that's
identical to the upstream. They don't have to follow every single
upstream patch and apply to theirs. I have the impression they have a
completely separate bunch working on their own kernel  modifications.
I might be mistaken...
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 Um, there *is* a free version of Oracle.

I thought you meant free as in freedom and not free as in free beer.
Yes, probably there is a free - limited - restricted -tryout -
development etc version fo Oracle database has IBM as provided of DB2
as well...

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/db2/express/

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Ken godee k...@perfect-image.com wrote:
 Fernando Cassia wrote:
 Why don't they just continue to do something more useful
 like continue the support for OpenSolaris!

To be honest, it never had any traction. At least not down here. And
it goes back to the Sun days, pre-Oracle.
Back in 2006 and 2007 Sun spent a lot in marketing and was down here
at Linux events with a Solaris booth or offering CDs etc... nobody
paid much attention to them...

I think the market for Solaris is the big corporations that use it to
run on high-end Sun/Oracle hardware (mostly Sparc), and those prefer
to pay to have a commercial grade solution with support. My guess is
that ORCL thought that they'd never get any ROI over 'free' Solaris,
nor any sizeable market share gain wrt Linux...

While some features like zones and zfs are interesting, Linux has also
improved as of late to fill some of those gaps...

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Brian Mathis
brian.mathis+cen...@betteradmin.com wrote:
 Aren't the SRPMs available for OEL?  How about an Indestructible
 CentOS sub-distro?

Yes, the srpms are available. That' s completely possible to do :)

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote:
 they want to sell SLA's which they sell cheaper than Red Hat which has caused 
 a rather sucky side effect which makes it more difficult to produce 
 customized kernels which would never have happened had Oracle not chosen to 
 ride the coattails of Red Hat and undercut the pricing

Well, if you see it the other way around, Oracle' s -and SUSE' s and
any other competition that might come along- help puts RHAT pricing in
check...

In the end what matters is if Oracle's kernel programmers are any
better at fixing bugs than RHAT's and if their support responds on
time or not.

For us end users with no support contract, the more heads and firms
that are involved in kernel dev and linux support, the better, more
chance of getting higher quality software.

I see plenty of patches/fixes to the Linux kernel by Oracle employees...
http://goo.gl/MqjCl

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 3:31 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 Don't worry, just as soon as Oracle drives RH under, or buys them, they'll
 crank up the prices to higher than RH now -

I don' t think that would happen anytime soon. AFAIK if you check
distrowatch Oracle Linux ranks #50 and CentOS ranks #8.

Also, I read somewhere that ORCL has 8,000 paid custmers to their
Linux subscription hardly a major player still.
But like I said, the more competition wrt pricing the better.

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 4:33 PM, John R. Dennison j...@gerdesas.com wrote:
 So for all your ramblings of commercialism these past few posts you
 would rather use something free instead of paying?  Really?

I said that Oracle Database does not interest me, because MySQL /
PostgreSQL is enough for my simple needs.
And I couldn' t afford the price of Oracle's commercial database even
if I wanted to use it.

Now, their entry-level Linux support subscription is another thing...
if I start providing commercial services on top of a Linux box I'd
rather pay whatever entry level fee I can to get *some* level of
support (specially wrt priority security fixes). And there ORCL linux
is the most affordable compared to RHEL.

That's what I said and there's no contradiction.

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote:
 From my experience with Fernando on Fedora-List...

Hi there Craig :)

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-21 Thread James Hogarth

 Came here asking about OpenJDK 7 support in CentOS 6.3, as I plan to
 run a Java based app server on it.
 Since I haven't installed Oracle's yet on the Sun box, no need still
 to ask any questions (I don't even know if there are mailing lists for
 Oracle's or web based forums).


You'll be pleased to know (as Johnny pointed out to me the other day)
openJDK 1.7 is fully supported by TUV in 6.3 ... so it's a fully
supported part of CentOS and not just a tech preview ;)

Johnny I know you said you were only going to do that one post but I
hope you're still reading the thread - thanks for the graph... it's
most enlightening.
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Chris xchris...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Oracle has created a new Website to capture CentOS Users :o

 http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/

http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/106971/novell-looks-to-lure-red-hat-users/

---
Novell has launched a migration service in an attempt ook aim at rival
and Linux market leader Red Hat with a migration service designed to
help move Linux users onto Novell's SuSE enterprise servers.

The SuSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) Subscription with Expanded
Support program is a three-year contract that covers support for Red
Hat or CentOS, a Red Hat clone, during the first two years of the
deal.

During that time, Novell will provide Red Hat and CentOS server users
with binaries released by Red Hat for its platform and technical
support. The subscriptions, which include two years of transition
support and three years SLES support, are similar to the three-year
priority contracts Novell offers on its own servers.


So, busines as usual... move along... nothing to see here...

FC

-- 
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
- George Orwell
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Chris wrote:
 Hello CentOS Guys :-)

 Oracle has created a new Website to capture CentOS Users :o

 http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/

Yup. No, don't switch from CentOS to RHEL, switch to *us*, and pay even
more for very, very, very lousy support.*

And I *love* the chart... never mind that RH changed the build structure
to give Oracle pain, and it hurt us, Never mind that the difference
between Oracle and CentOS, once that was fixed, dropped like a rock, due
to our team (that is, Johnny, and Karanbir, and all the rest), to where
it's even

No, you should pay us, says Larry, I need to keep my yacht and fighter jet
taken care of

 mark

* Long rant of personally-experienced month of Sun/Oracle support
available upon request.

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Hakan Koseoglu

On 20 July 2012 15:19, Chris xchris...@googlemail.com wrote:
 http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/
I found the update delay graph laughable. They're comparing
themselves to a bunch of volunteers and then say we beat people work
for free and for the love of it Right... IMHO, I'd rather go for
RHEL if I'm paying. (Unfortunately I don't make that decision,
customers do, disclaimer, $dayjob has OEL customers too).
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
No, you should pay us, says Larry, I need to keep my yacht and fighter jet
taken care of

Once again, the problem seems to be hatred of Ellison more than anything else.

Red Hat and CentOS based on it are #1, it´s only natural that smaller
players want a piece of the pie.

This is different from Novell trying to lure RHEL users exactly how?
http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/106971/novell-looks-to-lure-red-hat-users/

What Oracle is saying is if you want free, you can use ours instead
of CentOS and get a more recent kernel

centos 6.3 -2.6.32-279.1.1.el6
uek
http://public-yum.oracle.com/repo/OracleLinux/OL6/latest/i386/kernel-uek-2.6.32-300.29.2.el6uek.i686.rpm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Linux#RHEL_compatibility
---
Oracle distributes Oracle Linux with two kernels:

Red Hat Compatible Kernel - identical to the kernel shipped in Red
Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL).
Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel - based on a later Linux 2.6-series
kernel, with Oracle's own enhancements for OLTP, InfiniBand, and SSD
disk access, NUMA-optimizations, Reliable Datagram Sockets (RDS),
async I/O, OCFS2, and networking.[8][9]
---

https://oss.oracle.com/ol6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-UEK2-en.html

---
New Btrfs features/functionality

An updated version of btrfsfsck, a tool to check and repair a
Btrfs file system, is now included in the btrfs-progs package. This
new btrfsck now supports a --repair option that allows fixing errors
in the extent allocation tree and block group accounting. btrfsck also
provides the option --init-csum-tree which replaces the check-sum root
with an empty one. This will clear out the CRCs but allows the
file-system to be mounted with the mount option nodatasum.

Automatic defragmentation: Brtfs now provides an online
defragmentation facility that reorganizes data into contiguous chunks
wherever possible to create larger sections of available disk space
and improve read and write performance.

(snip)

Xen domU improvements

Several bug fixes and improvements have been incorporated to make the
Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel scale and cooperate better as a guest
(domU) in Oracle VM and Xen.

Xen block backend from Linux 3.3 kernel. This provides the fully
featured Xen blkback along with extra features, such as passing
through a flush (a lighter version of barrier), discard (also known as
TRIM or SCSI UNMAP) and various bug-fixes and enhancments.
Xen PCI backend from Linux 3.3 kernel, this includes the option to
specify how the PCI structure shows up in the PV guest - either as in
host or virtualized; Fixes to make it work with SR-IOV VF cards; and
numerous mutex fixes.
Memory self-ballooning - allows the guest to automatically balloon
depending on the workload.
Transcendent memory support for HVM and PV guests
Tracing API support for Xen MMU operations.
Syncing the wall-clock time from the initial domain
Numerous code cleanups and bug fixes (e.g. in the following areas:
memory balloning, blkfront, P2M, E820, IRQ, MMU, Gntalloc driver)

Other improvements

dm-nfs: device-mapper target that allows you to treat an NFS file
as a block device. It provides loopback-style emulation of a block
device using a regular file as backing storage. The backing file
resides on a remote system and is accessed via the NFS protocol.

Driver Updates

The Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel supports a vast range of hardware
and devices. In close cooperation with hardware and storage vendors,
several device drivers have been updated by Oracle. The list below
only indicates the updated drivers that deviate from the versions
included in mainline Linux 3.0.16.
Storage drivers

Broadcom bnx2i 2.7.0.3
Broadcom bnx2fc 1.0.4
Brocade bfa 3.0.2.2
Emulex be2iscsi 4.1.239.0
Emulex lpfc 8.3.5.58.2p
LSI mpt2sas 12.100.00.00
LSI megaraid_sas 5.40-rc1
QLogic qla2xxx 8.03.07.12.39.0-k
QLogic qla4xxx 5.02.00.00.06.02-uek2

Network drivers

Broadcom bnx2 2.1.11
Broadcom bnx2x 1.70.00-0
Broadcom cnic 2.5.7
Brocade bna 3.0.2.2
Cisco enic 2.1.1.24
Emulex be2net 4.1.297o
Intel e1000e 1.4.4-k
Intel ixgbevf 2.1.0-k
Intel igbvf 2.0.0-k
Intel ixgbe 3.4.8-k
Mellanox mlx4_en 1.5.4.2
QLogic netxen_nic 4.0.77
QLogic qlcnic 5.0.25.1

---
Sounds like value-added to me, for those that need that functionality.

For those that do not, CentOS is just fine.

The OP got the negative reactions he came seeking, I bet...
So can we please move along?. This bickering and gnashing of teeth
does nobody any good.

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 No, you should pay us, says Larry, I need to keep my yacht and fighter
 jet taken care of

 Once again, the problem seems to be hatred of Ellison more than anything
 else.

Have you seen any of my other posts, where I describe Sun/Oracle's utterly
abysmal and unacceptable support? Perhaps you might, and then you might
understand why I, personally, dislike Oracle. They've also always been the
high-priced spread. I've never been involved with the contracts, so I
simply don't know: perhaps someone here can tell us the difference between
the costs of the 3? 4? SLA contracts from RH and Oracle? I'll wager
Oracle's is comparable or higher.

 Red Hat and CentOS based on it are #1, it´s only natural that smaller
 players want a piece of the pie.

In the US: at least five years ago, SuSE was the bigger share in Europe.

 This is different from Novell trying to lure RHEL users exactly how?
 http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/106971/novell-looks-to-lure-red-hat-users/

RH, not free distros.
snip

Just one last question: if you think this highly of OUL, why are you here?
Why haven't you gone to their lists?

   mark not imputing someone being a marketing troll

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Lamar Owen

On Friday, July 20, 2012 10:19:05 AM Chris wrote:
 Hello CentOS Guys :-)
 
 Oracle has created a new Website to capture CentOS Users :o
 
 http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/

They also mention Scientific Linux in their 'QA.'
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 Just one last question: if you think this highly of OUL, why are you here?
 Why haven't you gone to their lists?

I have two AMD Opteron servers, a self-built one with Asus mobo, and a
Sun w1100z (ages old, single core Opteron).
I plan to run Oracle's on the latter, while keeping CentOS on the Asus one.

Came here asking about OpenJDK 7 support in CentOS 6.3, as I plan to
run a Java based app server on it.
Since I haven't installed Oracle's yet on the Sun box, no need still
to ask any questions (I don't even know if there are mailing lists for
Oracle's or web based forums).

I want to run both, and don't see the point of having any grudges
against any particular distro. But hey, that's me.

FC
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread John Hinton

On 7/20/2012 11:15 AM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
 On 20 July 2012 15:19, Chris xchris...@googlemail.com wrote:
 http://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/
 I found the update delay graph laughable. They're comparing
 themselves to a bunch of volunteers and then say we beat people work
 for free and for the love of it Right... IMHO, I'd rather go for
 RHEL if I'm paying. (Unfortunately I don't make that decision,
 customers do, disclaimer, $dayjob has OEL customers too).

Yes, pick the one bad time for CentOS and release 6 and show that in a 
graph. I find it interesting the CentOS is showing as faster than Oracle 
now.

Meanwhile, if this is linux.oracle.com, shouldn't Oracle database be 
included in the 'free version'? If you want something laughable. Anyway, 
Oracle came with some old distro or book I picked up. It was free with 
some strings as I remember, but that is likely a decade ago now. Still, 
shouldn't Oracle linux include Oracle? The word Oracle being synonymous 
with one thing. I might have to do an install if it did and if it was 
free for any use. ;)

-- 
John Hinton
877-777-1407 ext 502
http://www.ew3d.com
Comprehensive Online Solutions

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:48 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 Just one last question: if you think this highly of OUL, why are you
 here?
 Why haven't you gone to their lists?
snip
 I want to run both, and don't see the point of having any grudges
 against any particular distro. But hey, that's me.

Oh, as I read this, I was thinking, and realized I *do* have something
against OUL specifically: of commercial providers of Linux, Novell's SuSE
is their own distro. RHEL is their own distro. Oracle takes RHEL and
customizes it, rather than building it from the F/OSS components, the way
SuSE and RH do, and sells it as their distro. *That's* what frosts me.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, John Hinton webmas...@ew3d.com wrote:
 Meanwhile, if this is linux.oracle.com, shouldn't Oracle database be
 included in the 'free version'?

No, as IBM doesn´t make DB2 GPL either. It´s the big bucks from the
fortune 500 proprietary products which pays -in part- for all the FOSS
goodness like OpenJDK, Netbeans, Virtualbox, Glassfish, MySQL, Btrfs,
InnoDB, BerkeleyDB...

If you mean, ´free as in free beer ... I guess it´s a matter of
keeping things simple... as they try to mirror the RHEL package set...

Plus, I wouldn´t pay for Oracle DB, with all the free options
(including MySQL community edition) available on repos...

Just my $0.02...
FC
-- 
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
- George Orwell
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, John Hinton webmas...@ew3d.com wrote:
 Meanwhile, if this is linux.oracle.com, shouldn't Oracle database be
 included in the 'free version'?

 No, as IBM doesn´t make DB2 GPL either. It´s the big bucks from the
 fortune 500 proprietary products which pays -in part- for all the FOSS
 goodness like OpenJDK, Netbeans, Virtualbox, Glassfish, MySQL, Btrfs,
 InnoDB, BerkeleyDB...
snip

Um, there *is* a free version of Oracle. There are coded-in limits to size
- I know, because in '09, I was fighting to install and configure
spacewalk (*bleah!*), which *required* Oracle at the time, and the free
version of Oracle would only allow  a max mem of 1G, and just to make
spacewalk work, I had to up the default to something like 997M.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Ken godee

 Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, John Hinton webmas...@ew3d.com wrote:
 Meanwhile, if this is linux.oracle.com, shouldn't Oracle database be
 included in the 'free version'?

 No, as IBM doesn´t make DB2 GPL either. It´s the big bucks from the
 fortune 500 proprietary products which pays -in part- for all the FOSS
 goodness like OpenJDK, Netbeans, Virtualbox, Glassfish, MySQL, Btrfs,
 InnoDB, BerkeleyDB...

Why don't they just continue to do something more useful
like continue the support for OpenSolaris!



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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Brian Mathis

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Ken godee k...@perfect-image.com wrote:
 Fernando Cassia wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, John Hinton webmas...@ew3d.com wrote:
 Meanwhile, if this is linux.oracle.com, shouldn't Oracle database be
 included in the 'free version'?

 No, as IBM doesn´t make DB2 GPL either. It´s the big bucks from the
 fortune 500 proprietary products which pays -in part- for all the FOSS
 goodness like OpenJDK, Netbeans, Virtualbox, Glassfish, MySQL, Btrfs,
 InnoDB, BerkeleyDB...

 Why don't they just continue to do something more useful
 like continue the support for OpenSolaris!


Aren't the SRPMs available for OEL?  How about an Indestructible
CentOS sub-distro?


❧ Brian Mathis
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Craig White


On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 No, you should pay us, says Larry, I need to keep my yacht and fighter jet
 taken care of
 
 Once again, the problem seems to be hatred of Ellison more than anything else.

some people object to Ellison and I would suspect that many more just don't 
trust Oracle as a corporation but there are some businesses that rely upon 
Oracle too.

I would suspect that few will actually switch from CentOS to OUL just because 
of their offer but it is just a re-spin of the RHEL, like CentOS and Scientific 
Linux so it's relatively easy to switch back and forth anyway. Oracle really 
doesn't care whether users install their OUL... they want to sell SLA's which 
they sell cheaper than Red Hat which has caused a rather sucky side effect 
which makes it more difficult to produce customized kernels which would never 
have happened had Oracle not chosen to ride the coattails of Red Hat and 
undercut the pricing (just another reason that some dislike Oracle).

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Craig White wrote:

 On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:12 PM,  m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
 No, you should pay us, says Larry, I need to keep my yacht and fighter
 jet taken care of

 Once again, the problem seems to be hatred of Ellison more than anything
 else.
 
 some people object to Ellison and I would suspect that many more just
 don't trust Oracle as a corporation but there are some businesses that
 rely upon Oracle too.

 I would suspect that few will actually switch from CentOS to OUL just
 because of their offer but it is just a re-spin of the RHEL, like CentOS
 and Scientific Linux so it's relatively easy to switch back and forth
 anyway. Oracle really doesn't care whether users install their OUL... they
 want to sell SLA's which they sell cheaper than Red Hat which has caused a
 rather sucky side effect which makes it more difficult to produce
 customized kernels which would never have happened had Oracle not chosen
 to ride the coattails of Red Hat and undercut the pricing (just another
 reason that some dislike Oracle).

Don't worry, just as soon as Oracle drives RH under, or buys them, they'll
crank up the prices to higher than RH now - I mean, Oracle's a *lot*
bigger than RH, and can afford the loss leader for a while.

mark and the quality of their service will drop, if that's
  possible

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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Les Mikesell

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote:

Oracle really doesn't care whether users install their OUL... they want to 
sell SLA's which they sell cheaper than Red Hat which has caused a rather 
sucky side effect which makes it more difficult to produce customized kernels 
which would never have happened had Oracle not chosen to ride the coattails of 
Red Hat and undercut the pricing (just another reason that some dislike 
Oracle).


Yes, but the real sucky thing here was when Red Hat cut off the
community that contributed the fixes to their buggy initial versions
from getting free binaries of the results that became RHEL.  If Oracle
- or anyone else - can steal their support customers by providing free
access to usable binaries, well, they brought it on themselves.  And
they still could rectify that mistake if they wanted...

-- 
   Les Mikesell
  lesmikes...@gmail.com
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 02:30:49PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:

 If you mean, ´free as in free beer ... I guess it´s a matter of
 keeping things simple... as they try to mirror the RHEL package set...

You misspelled, once again, leech.  It's a simple word, you should
really use it more often considering how applicable it is in this
thread.

 Plus, I wouldn´t pay for Oracle DB, with all the free options
 (including MySQL community edition) available on repos...

So for all your ramblings of commercialism these past few posts you
would rather use something free instead of paying?  Really?




John
-- 
Sued for what? I can see it now:
If you win, you get a hug from Stallman.
If you lose you get 2 hugs.

-- geekoid (135745) dadinportland@@@yahoo...com, Slashdot, in reference to
   claims that Emacs violated the GPL.


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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 02:11:03PM -0400, Brian Mathis wrote:
 
 Aren't the SRPMs available for OEL?  How about an Indestructible
 CentOS sub-distro?

Yeah can we please just forget this and avoid all the litigation?




John
-- 
Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing
exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the
well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.

-- Herman Melville (1819-1891), novelist and poet


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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

2012-07-20 Thread Craig White


On Jul 20, 2012, at 12:33 PM, John R. Dennison wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 02:30:49PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
 
 If you mean, ´free as in free beer ... I guess it´s a matter of
 keeping things simple... as they try to mirror the RHEL package set...
 
 You misspelled, once again, leech.  It's a simple word, you should
 really use it more often considering how applicable it is in this
 thread.

nit picking someone whose first language isn't English? Better to build a 
barrier to communication than to actual discuss the actual issues I guess. 

 
 Plus, I wouldn´t pay for Oracle DB, with all the free options
 (including MySQL community edition) available on repos...
 
 So for all your ramblings of commercialism these past few posts you
 would rather use something free instead of paying?  Really?

From my experience with Fernando on Fedora-List... I am quite sure that he 
prefers to use free software and while I don't share any enthusiasm for 
Oracle, everyone is free to choose what they install on their boxes and I 
sense that what you really want to do here is ridicule.

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

Craig White wrote:
 On Jul 20, 2012, at 12:33 PM, John R. Dennison wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 02:30:49PM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:

 If you mean, ´free as in free beer ... I guess it´s a matter of
 keeping things simple... as they try to mirror the RHEL package set...

 You misspelled, once again, leech.  It's a simple word, you should
 really use it more often considering how applicable it is in this
 thread.
 
 nit picking someone whose first language isn't English? Better to build a
 barrier to communication than to actual discuss the actual issues I guess.
snip
I think John was saying that Oracle isn't trying to mirror the RHEL
package set, but leech off the RHEL package set.

  mark


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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 01:37:34PM -0700, Craig White wrote:
 
 nit picking someone whose first language isn't English? Better to
 build a barrier to communication than to actual discuss the actual
 issues I guess. 

Oh please.  His mastery of the language is better than many native
speakers.

 From my experience with Fernando on Fedora-List... I am quite sure
 that he prefers to use free software and while I don't share any
 enthusiasm for Oracle, everyone is free to choose what they install
 on their boxes and I sense that what you really want to do here is
 ridicule.

If I wanted to ridicule I would; this, sir, was far from it.  I'm just
pointing out facts from this and previous threads.





John
-- 
Michelle Backman - For those that think that Sarah Palin is too intellectual.
-- Bill Maher


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Re: [CentOS] Oracle tries to capture CentOS users