Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Mason Loring Bliss]

On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 05:05:18PM +0200, Dominik Holler wrote:

>How CentOS Stream is going to handle RHEL 9?
>Will there be a CentOS Stream 8 and CentOS Stream 9?

That's answered here:


https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_switches_from_RHEL_8_to_RHEL_9_based_content.3F

-- 
Mason Loring Bliss  ((   If I have not seen as far as others, it is because
 ma...@blisses.org   ))   giants were standing on my shoulders. - Hal Abelson


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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Dominik Holler]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:53 AM Phil Perry  wrote:

> On 09/09/2020 07:15, Dominik Holler wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:05 AM Brian Stinson  > > wrote:
> >
> > __
> > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
> >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection of
> >> repos that
> >> > offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release? It's
> >> not a
> >> > midstream between Fedora and RHEL.
> >>
> >> Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there, I'd tend
> >> to think
> >> "rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8 to 9
> >> without a
> >> reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves
> >> will require
> >> a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.
> >>
> >> I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams
> >> ma...@blisses.org  ))  build  their
> >> nest  with fragments  dropped
> >> http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." - Rabindranath
> Tagore
> >>
> >> ___
> >> CentOS-docs mailing list
> >> CentOS-docs@centos.org 
> >> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
> >>
> >>
> >> *Attachments:*
> >>
> >>   * signature.asc
> >
> > These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some of
> > the wording here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping
> > up (even though we've come a long way already).
> >
> > We want to communicate a few things like:
> > - CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor
> > release of RHEL
> >
> >
> > Is CentOS Stream based on the next minor or major release of RHEL?
> >
>
> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e,
> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
> release - RHEL 8.3.
>
>
How CentOS Stream is going to handle RHEL 9?
Will there be a CentOS Stream 8 and CentOS Stream 9?


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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Brian Stinson]

On 9/9/20 9:28 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 08:52:47AM +0100, Phil Perry wrote:
>> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e,
>> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
>> release - RHEL 8.3.
> 
> What I think is unclear is that the original text mentions Fedora.
> So, saying it's 'midstream' between CentOS and Fedora makes me think
> you're taking package versions in Fedora and building it on/for
> CentOS.

That speaks to the other audience that we have to cover, the RHEL
maintainers who will actually be using CentOS Stream as the development
location for the next minor release of RHEL.

Those folks have an 'upstream first' mindset, ideally changes make it
into actual upstream projects and included in Fedora as part of the
regular work that they do. One message we need to keep here is that
Stream isn't a shortcut around those upstream-first principles.

> 
> I'll also mention that the word 'stream' is being heavily abused by
> CentOS at this point.  

No disagreement there.

> 
> I realize that a lot of work goes into taking Fedora stuff and putting
> into RHEL, so I wouldn't want to step on that.
> 

--Brian
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Jonathan Billings]

On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 08:52:47AM +0100, Phil Perry wrote:
> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e,
> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
> release - RHEL 8.3.

What I think is unclear is that the original text mentions Fedora.
So, saying it's 'midstream' between CentOS and Fedora makes me think
you're taking package versions in Fedora and building it on/for
CentOS.

I'll also mention that the word 'stream' is being heavily abused by
CentOS at this point.  

I realize that a lot of work goes into taking Fedora stuff and putting
into RHEL, so I wouldn't want to step on that.

-- 
Jonathan Billings 
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Phil Perry]

On 09/09/2020 07:15, Dominik Holler wrote:



On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:05 AM Brian Stinson > wrote:


__
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:

> This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection of
repos that
> offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release? It's
not a
> midstream between Fedora and RHEL.

Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there, I'd tend
to think
"rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8 to 9
without a
reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves
will require
a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.

I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!

-- 
Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams

ma...@blisses.org  ))  build  their
nest  with fragments  dropped
http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore

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*Attachments:*

  * signature.asc


These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some of
the wording here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping
up (even though we've come a long way already).

We want to communicate a few things like:
- CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor
release of RHEL


Is CentOS Stream based on the next minor or major release of RHEL?



Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e, 
what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL 
release - RHEL 8.3.


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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Dominik Holler]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:05 AM Brian Stinson  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
>
> > This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection of repos that
> > offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release? It's not a
> > midstream between Fedora and RHEL.
>
> Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there, I'd tend to think
> "rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8 to 9 without a
> reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves will require
> a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.
>
> I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!
>
> --
> Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams
> ma...@blisses.org ))  build  their nest  with fragments  dropped
> http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore
>
> ___
> CentOS-docs mailing list
> CentOS-docs@centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
>
>
> *Attachments:*
>
>- signature.asc
>
>
> These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some of the
> wording here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping up (even
> though we've come a long way already).
>
> We want to communicate a few things like:
> - CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor release
> of RHEL
>

Is CentOS Stream based on the next minor or major release of RHEL?


> - It is (or will be) a way to accept code contributions and dialog
> directly with RHEL maintainers
> - There is one "Live" Stream open for such contribution at a time.
> Currently this is the CentOS Stream that's previewing RHEL 8. You'll likely
> need to perform a reinstall to jump from a CentOS Stream that previews RHEL
> 8 content to a CentOS Stream that previews later releases
>
> --Brian
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Brian Stinson]

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> 
> > This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection of repos that
> > offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release? It's not a
> > midstream between Fedora and RHEL.
> 
> Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there, I'd tend to think
> "rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8 to 9 without a
> reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves will require
> a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.
> 
> I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!
> 
> -- 
> Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams
> ma...@blisses.org ))  build  their nest  with fragments  dropped
> http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore
> 
> ___
> CentOS-docs mailing list
> CentOS-docs@centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
> 
> 
> *Attachments:*
>  * signature.asc

These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some of the wording 
here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping up (even though we've 
come a long way already). 

We want to communicate a few things like:
- CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor release of 
RHEL
- It is (or will be) a way to accept code contributions and dialog directly 
with RHEL maintainers
- There is one "Live" Stream open for such contribution at a time. Currently 
this is the CentOS Stream that's previewing RHEL 8. You'll likely need to 
perform a reinstall to jump from a CentOS Stream that previews RHEL 8 content 
to a CentOS Stream that previews later releases

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Mason Loring Bliss]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:

> This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection of repos that
> offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release? It's not a
> midstream between Fedora and RHEL.

Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there, I'd tend to think
"rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8 to 9 without a
reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves will require
a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.

I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!

-- 
Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams
ma...@blisses.org ))  build  their nest  with fragments  dropped
http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore


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[CentOS-docs] Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

[Jonathan Billings]

Not sure if this is a Docs issue or others...

I came across this page:

https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/

> CentOS Steam
> 
> Rolling-release distro that tracks just ahead of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 
> (RHEL) development, positioned as a midstream between Fedora Linux and RHEL. 
> For anyone interested in participating and collaborating in the RHEL 
> ecosystem, CentOS Stream is your reliable platform for innovation.

This is pretty misleading. Isn’t Stream just a collection of repos that offer 
pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release?  It’s not a midstream 
between Fedora and RHEL. 
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