Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
Am 09.10.10 01:18, schrieb Milos Blazevic: Of course, if we get to it, I'll make sure we discuss it thoroughly on the mailing list before the changes go public. Sure, MilosBlazevic can now edit that page. Regards, Ralph ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
Ralph Angenendt wrote: Am 09.10.10 01:18, schrieb Milos Blazevic: Of course, if we get to it, I'll make sure we discuss it thoroughly on the mailing list before the changes go public. Sure, MilosBlazevic can now edit that page. Regards, Ralph ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs Thanks, I'll come back shortly with my suggestion for page changes. -- *Srdacan pozdrav,* *Milos Blazevic* Cert. No: 805010564450148 Email: milos.blaze...@sbb.rs mailto:milos.blaze...@sbb.rs Tel: 064/301 45 78 ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On 10/09/2010 04:33 AM, Milos Blazevic wrote: Bob Stine wrote: Milos Blazivec wrote: /... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki / /page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do / /the trick./ Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that PATH included the bin directory of the sun jdk directory, added environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from java - /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal. Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work? Could you unpack just won't do, or point to a discussion of the issue? What I meant is that the instructions you suggested in your first e-mail are taken from: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/install-linux-64-rpm-138254.html and are all but comprehenssive, let alone appropriate for beginners. These installation instructions have been accompanying Sun Java as long as I can remember, and strangely, no one cared to mention 'em in the Wiki page... don't you think that's kinda odd? I don't - 'cause they don't work! This second part (editing /etc/profiles, deleting symlinks and editing PATH...) is NOT what you mentioned in your first e-mail. However, in my honest oppinion, this is still not the correct way to do this. What you did, is that you probably got it to work for Your particular purpose by resorting to an unconventional method (i.e. circumvent the mechanism intended for this purpose, rather than a by-the-book approach). By solving the problem this way, sooner or later you'll end up breaking something. Maintainance may prove difficult later For me, by-the-book is using alternatives utility for this purpose - intended by the makers way to handle this kind of issues. (switching between different mail servers, etc.) Using alternatives in the context of Java is 100% useless for ordinary users who do not want to use the stock gcj or openjdk packages ( and therefore replace them with Sun's packages). As far as I have seen on the few hundreds workstations that I maintain + the requests in the IRC channel, users only need to run - browser java plugin ( solved by installing Sun's jre + a convenient ln -s already mentioned before in this thread - java ( the binary, as in java -Xmx400m -DuseDesktop=true -Dsun.java2d.pmoffscreen=false -jar /usr/share/jalbum/JAlbum.jar ) in order to run .jar applications - the libs needed by Eclipse, also mentioned before in the thread Better idea is to adjust symlink to point to the desired binary, rather than editing PATH variable, deleting the symlink,... At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes with the following structure: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default - /usr/java/latest drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest - /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20 Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages ( which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At least from I where I stand. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On 09/10/10 08:32, Manuel Wolfshant wrote: snip At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes with the following structure: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default - /usr/java/latest drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest - /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20 Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages ( which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At least from I where I stand. Are these redistributable? I'm sure they are as Red Hat has Sun's Java packages on it's RHEL Supplementary disk for RHEL5 which it (re)distributes to customers. In which case why doesn't someone just repackage these and stick them in CentOS Extras/rpmforge or somewhere and the problem largely goes away. Or am I missing something? If we had decent packages that Just Worked, we wouldn't need convoluted documentation on how to install Java. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On 09/10/10 13:13, R P Herrold wrote: On Sat, 9 Oct 2010, Ned Slider wrote: Are these redistributable? I'm sure they are as Red Hat has Sun's Java packages on it's RHEL Supplementary disk for RHEL5 which it (re)distributes to customers. No, not without exposing oneself to some liability and obligations to Sun / Oracle. -- Russ herrold OK, thanks for that Russ, and probably explains why no one has done the obvious before now! Regards. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On 10/09/2010 12:47 PM, Ned Slider wrote: On 09/10/10 08:32, Manuel Wolfshant wrote: snip At least the jre package (and I am almost sure jdk too) from Sun comes with the following structure: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 10 01:25 default - /usr/java/latest drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:34 jre1.6.0_20 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Jun 28 23:35 latest - /usr/java/jre1.6.0_20 Using /usr/java/latest and / or /usr/java/default in your scripts makes them immune to upgrades, as long as you stick with Sun's packages ( which - sad but true - make the java-openjdk / gcj packages useless and offer ( for the moment ) better compatibility with the real world. At least from I where I stand. Are these redistributable? I'm sure they are as Red Hat has Sun's Java packages on it's RHEL Supplementary disk for RHEL5 which it (re)distributes to customers. As Russ has said, they are not. In which case why doesn't someone just repackage these and stick them in CentOS Extras/rpmforge or somewhere and the problem largely goes away. Or am I missing something? Yup, you miss the fact that RH [ probably ] has agreements which allow them to redistribute some binary-only packages (even flash player) via a special channel to their customers. If we had decent packages that Just Worked, we wouldn't need convoluted documentation on how to install Java. Indeed. Unfortunately we are not there. Not yet. However a 3 steps procedure ( 1) download from Sun; 2) install rpm 3) create a symlink for your browser ) is not that bad, given the previous options that we had. ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
[CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010, Manuel Wolfshant wrote: As Russ has said, they are not. More context (said in our back archive, but recapped recently [and it should have crossed http://planet.centos.org/ when I issued this update] at http://orcorc.blogspot.com/2010/08/chickens-coming-home-to-roost.html which point to the primary source of the analysis of problems a license and rights review turned up) Indeed. Unfortunately we are not there. Not yet. Really, I do not see a future in which Oracle CAN sufficiently 'free' Java at least through v 1.6 series; and the related test kit [assuming for the sake of argument that it was INCLINED to do so]. The upshot of recent LSB calls is that the 'trial use' of Java will be withdrawn in the upcoming 4.1 refresh, until and unless this future brightens [probably at least 2-3 years] -- Russ herrold ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
[CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
I've read website http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/JavaOnCentOS. I am a total newbie with CentOS, but currently, with update 21 of the Java 6 JDK and CentOS 5.5, the installing the JDK appears to be simpler: 1. Download the latest *rpm.bin jdk (as of today,jdk-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin) fromhttp://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/widget/jdk6.jsp 2. chmod +x the downloaded file. 3. su 4. Execute the file. The main advantage of this procedure is that you do not need to build an RPM. --- Bob Stine b...@waltonstine.net (703) 217-4784 Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do? ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
Bob Stine wrote: I've read website http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/JavaOnCentOS http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/JavaOnCentOS. I am a total newbie with CentOS, but currently, with update 21 of the Java 6 JDK and CentOS 5.5, the installing the JDK appears to be simpler: 1. Download the latest *rpm.bin jdk (as of today,jdk-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin) fromhttp://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/widget/jdk6.jsp http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/widget/jdk6.jsp 2. chmod +x the downloaded file. 3. su 4. Execute the file. The main advantage of this procedure is that you do not need to build an RPM. --- Bob Stine b...@waltonstine.net mailto:b...@waltonstine.net (703) 217-4784 /Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do?/ ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs This issue with Wiki page has been discussed recently on the following forum topic: https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=116041topic_id=28126forum=38#forumpost116041 and although I never got to reply to Alan Bartlett's proposition (sorry Alan), cause I never got the time to go through the whole thing thoroughly - been rather busy lately. However, I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do the trick. I have to admitt, I don't recall the above instructions (provided at Sun/Oracle's web site - with the links to download the Sun Java SDK package) ever doing any good. So, Ralph (or any other Wiki admin) would you be kind enough to escalate my privileges in order for me to edit the JavaOnCentOS Wiki? Of course, if we get to it, I'll make sure we discuss it thoroughly on the mailing list before the changes go public. -- *Milos Blazevic* Cert. No: 805010564450148 Email: milos.blaze...@sbb.rs mailto:milos.blaze...@sbb.rs Tel: 064/301 45 78 ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
Milos Blazivec wrote: ... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do the trick. Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that PATH included the bin directory of the sun jdk directory, added environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from java - /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal. Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work? Could you unpack just won't do, or point to a discussion of the issue? Thanks. --- Bob Stine b...@waltonstine.net (703) 217-4784 Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do? ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
Bob Stine wrote: Milos Blazivec wrote: /... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki / /page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do / /the trick./ Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that PATH included the bin directory of the sun jdk directory, added environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from java - /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal. Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work? Could you unpack just won't do, or point to a discussion of the issue? Thanks. --- Bob Stine b...@waltonstine.net mailto:b...@waltonstine.net (703) 217-4784 /Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do?/ ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs What I meant is that the instructions you suggested in your first e-mail are taken from: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/install-linux-64-rpm-138254.html and are all but comprehenssive, let alone appropriate for beginners. These installation instructions have been accompanying Sun Java as long as I can remember, and strangely, no one cared to mention 'em in the Wiki page... don't you think that's kinda odd? I don't - 'cause they don't work! This second part (editing /etc/profiles, deleting symlinks and editing PATH...) is NOT what you mentioned in your first e-mail. However, in my honest oppinion, this is still not the correct way to do this. What you did, is that you probably got it to work for Your particular purpose by resorting to an unconventional method (i.e. circumvent the mechanism intended for this purpose, rather than a by-the-book approach). By solving the problem this way, sooner or later you'll end up breaking something. Maintainance may prove difficult later For me, by-the-book is using alternatives utility for this purpose - intended by the makers way to handle this kind of issues. (switching between different mail servers, etc.) Better idea is to adjust symlink to point to the desired binary, rather than editing PATH variable, deleting the symlink,... Eclipse has got nothing to do with all this... -- ***Milos Blazevic* Cert. No: 805010564450148 Email: milos.blaze...@sbb.rs mailto:milos.blaze...@sbb.rs Tel: 064/301 45 78 ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
Re: [CentOS-docs] Suggestion for how to section: easy way to install the JDK?
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Milos Blazevic milos.blaze...@sbb.rs wrote: Bob Stine wrote: Milos Blazivec wrote: /... I am, in fact, interested in making adjustments to the Wiki / /page - but sadly not the ones you proposed Bob, since the just won't do / /the trick./ Hmm. I ran the executed the bin file, edited /etc/profile so that PATH included the bin directory of the sun jdk directory, added environment variable JDK_HOME, deleted the /usr/bin/java symlink from java - /etc/alternative/java, and everything works, or at least well enough for me to run the Eclipse C++ IDE, which was my goal. Maybe adding the jdk was unnecessary for Eclipse to work? Could you unpack just won't do, or point to a discussion of the issue? Thanks. --- Bob Stine b...@waltonstine.net mailto:b...@waltonstine.net (703) 217-4784 /Rule for living: What Would Clint Eastwood Do?/ What I meant is that the instructions you suggested in your first e-mail are taken from: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/install-linux-64-rpm-138254.html and are all but comprehensive, let alone appropriate for beginners. These installation instructions have been accompanying Sun Java as long as I can remember, and strangely, no one cared to mention 'em in the Wiki page... don't you think that's kinda odd? I don't - 'cause they don't work! This second part (editing /etc/profiles, deleting symlinks and editing PATH...) is NOT what you mentioned in your first e-mail. However, in my honest opinion, this is still not the correct way to do this. What you did, is that you probably got it to work for Your particular purpose by resorting to an unconventional method (i.e. circumvent the mechanism intended for this purpose, rather than a by-the-book approach). By solving the problem this way, sooner or later you'll end up breaking something. Maintenance may prove difficult later Agreed. Sometimes the road best taken is the one not yet travelled. jerry ___ CentOS-docs mailing list CentOS-docs@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
