Re: Consultant's Revenge
Here is the problem I face most of the clients I have had recently have not paid me as you may recall the nasty spat online for $150. Well the guy he says I billed 165 hours never paid me for ONE hour of work, the next client I get then promptly pays me for one week but take 20 hours off the next two checks, I quit that one and the last Client I had was the worst because his end client has 13 Billion dollars and wanted to pay him but he would not send in an Invoice. The end client liked my work so much that they kept the contract with him as long as he kept me. This guy who claims to have been in business for 13 years or more and has $70,000 in his company bank account(I know people who work at Wachovia)and he still refuses to pay me. So Jefferey you are right usually a letter from your attorney requesting payment or file Lawsuit in Federal DISTRICT Court (yes Federal Court is the way to go for anything over $500, because of a little thing called Diversity of Citizenship(you live in a different state than the weasel who does not pay) will get you money. The problem is to retain an attorney usually costs you $2000 or more so that is how the weasel's get you. So in order to beat that you make sure they have (weasel) has Liability Insurance for $1,000,000 so you sue their Insurance company who promptly pays and dumps his cheap skate client. At this moment I am owed over $10,000 and my children did not have as nice as Xmas as they should for exactly that reason. The ones that I hate are the Big Companies that require you to go with a IT Consulting firm(they have contract with) in order to work for them then the Firm makes all sort of demands on you so that you quit and they can find some CHEAP south east Asian to take your place if the estupido company lets them! VNC | aaron AT trajiklyhip DOT com | http://www.trajiklyhip.com/blog/ | Certified Advanced Adobe ColdFusion MX 7 Developer | Certified Macromedia Flash MX Developer | Adobe Community Expert ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3614 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Consultant's Revenge
I'm running an offshore ColdFusion developer from Jakarta, that is south east Asia. My company's rate is US$40/man/hour, i think it's not that cheap :) Currently we have 0 customers that won't pay us. Infact, we never ask for down payment cause we're 100% sure that our client will benefit from our work, thus pay the bill. To prevent this situation, for new client we usually break down large project into smaller pieces. And do the small piece first, see whether they satisfy with our work - and pay before we continue with the rest. Regards, Rizal At 09:30 PM 2/2/2008, you wrote: Here is the problem I face most of the clients I have had recently have not paid me as you may recall the nasty spat online for $150. Well the guy he says I billed 165 hours never paid me for ONE hour of work, the next client I get then promptly pays me for one week but take 20 hours off the next two checks, I quit that one and the last Client I had was the worst because his end client has 13 Billion dollars and wanted to pay him but he would not send in an Invoice. The end client liked my work so much that they kept the contract with him as long as he kept me. This guy who claims to have been in business for 13 years or more and has $70,000 in his company bank account(I know people who work at Wachovia)and he still refuses to pay me. So Jefferey you are right usually a letter from your attorney requesting payment or file Lawsuit in Federal DISTRICT Court (yes Federal Court is the way to go for anything over $500, because of a little thing called Diversity of Citizenship(you live in a different state than the weasel who does not pay) will get you money. The problem is to retain an attorney usually costs you $2000 or more so that is how the weasel's get you. So in order to beat that you make sure they have (weasel) has Liability Insurance for $1,000,000 so you sue their Insurance company who promptly pays and dumps his cheap skate client. At this moment I am owed over $10,000 and my children did not have as nice as Xmas as they should for exactly that reason. The ones that I hate are the Big Companies that require you to go with a IT Consulting firm(they have contract with) in order to work for them then the Firm makes all sort of demands on you so that you quit and they can find some CHEAP south east Asian to take your place if the estupido company lets them! ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3616 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Consultant's Revenge
Interesting, $40/hr is really not a ton cheaper than what a lot of U.S. developers will work for. We have paid anywhere from $40-60/hr for CF developers. I personally have worked for anywhere from $30-80/hr, just depended on the job, my schedule, and many other factors. I have had trouble with big companies not paying on time and that can be a significant hit on the old wallet when waiting on a $10k or more check to come in and it is many months late coming. I am lucky that I stash a healthy chunk of change in the bank for such experiences although the last time it happened to be it pretty much depleted my stash and was not a fun experience thinking about the possible outcomes. I did wise up some last year and for some of my projects for the big companies instead of charging hourly I charged a flat rate which they had to pay upfront. Basically the invoice was put out at the beginning and they have NET 50 terms so in most cases the payment came in shortly after the project was done. On Feb 2, 2008 8:52 AM, Rizal Firmansyah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm running an offshore ColdFusion developer from Jakarta, that is south east Asia. My company's rate is US$40/man/hour, i think it's not that cheap :) Currently we have 0 customers that won't pay us. Infact, we never ask for down payment cause we're 100% sure that our client will benefit from our work, thus pay the bill. To prevent this situation, for new client we usually break down large project into smaller pieces. And do the small piece first, see whether they satisfy with our work - and pay before we continue with the rest. Regards, Rizal ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3617 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Consultant's Revenge
Sir, One of specialities is working with the SE Asia Firms and from my converstions with them your rate seems to be an anomally since I have had to put out subcontracting bids for other developers to help when I am swamped,most of my replies have been in the $20-30 range. Also Sir you do not have to deal with the IRS and Social Security Administration, State, and Local Taxes so yes normally $40 is a good rate. I recently posted for $25 per hour and was overwhelmed with potential clients asking for my services , I was also talked about as if I was a fool by some of my fellow programmers here in the US. Regardless I was not meaning anything about race more so to the fact that because you do not have to deal with US taxes and the company has no Tax ID to report to the US Government, then they of course are willing to pay you and are happy to do it. I have often thought of opening an offshore company in maybe Costa Rica or Barbados in order to get those same benefits as you are proud of receiving. But in effect you are cheap for US companies because of the Tax Liability and Government Pension payments. Even as an offshore company you do not have a US Tax ID, I am sure the IRS could not take you to jail or haul you off to court another advantage you have. Again no pun on SE Asian my Step Mother was from Canton China before she came here to the US, and I love Taiwan and Hong Kong but guess what her brother who I learned some of my programming skills from also runs an offshore programming shop charging 35 per hour, and he is rich; living in Hong Kong. No way a US programmer could be considered Rich here for charging that rate. I wonder do you live in a Villa, how much money do you make out of the 40 per hour or does the whole company get paid that and then it is divided , you see here if a developer shared 40 per hour with his partners he would need 15 clients ,working for all of them to survive! I'm running an offshore ColdFusion developer from Jakarta, that is south east Asia. My company's rate is US$40/man/hour, i think it's not that cheap :) Currently we have 0 customers that won't pay us. Infact, we never ask for down payment cause we're 100% sure that our client will benefit from our work, thus pay the bill. To prevent this situation, for new client we usually break down large project into smaller pieces. And do the small piece first, see whether they satisfy with our work - and pay before we continue with the rest. Regards, Rizal At 09:30 PM 2/2/2008, you wrote: ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3619 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I've been watching the Consultant's Revenge thread for a few days, but haven't commented because most everything that I would say has been said. I like the idea, but I'm also worried about liability. I also like JW's idea about a place where both clients and companies can be listed. I like this idea of the Deadbeat Clients list. But I have a question... shouldn't there be a list for clients who it's a fight to get paid, even if you eventually do? Or for clients who pay, but will negotiate you down after-the-fact? I have a few to add to the list if we're going to have a list like that. Rob ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3620 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Dead Beat Clients.
If this list is going to be created, you can probably break it off into groups. 1. Dead Beats 2. Slow Pays 3. Partial Pays (Partial invoices, not partial jobs) I, personally, think this would be a grand idea. I also think that the company/client, should also be able to list on a similar system the names of those consultants that left them in a lurch, walked away from the job, or did something that specifically jeopardized the job. I have recently been speaking to a client who has had 3 people walk away. As much as this is a red flag for me to work with him, it also says something about consultants. Unfortunately, I don't know if it was the client, the consultant, or the job that was too obtrusive to be completed with. I know for myself, such a list may not stop me from working with a client, but it will make me 'stick to my requirements' harder. (If my agreement is weekly invoices, the first missed payment has all work stop until a satisfactory explanation or payment has been received, if it is by 'milestone', no work until payment has been received based on the milestone, etc.) The unfortunate thing about a list like this is that it can't be 'amended'. Once an email is sent on this list, it is forever searchable by the search engines. If you make a 'typo', or if a company name is the same for different companies across regions, then there has been a 'mistake' that cannot be 'redacted'. I think this would be better served using a database similar to the BBB system. I know, for instance, that there is at least 1 client out there who would say some poor things about me, and I about them. What it comes down to is a bad communication issue. (the specs were, apparently, unclear (I had thought that the client meant something, when they had meant something else.) Even though I have billed her for the hours I worked on it, she has never paid, and never responded to additional contact. I have written it off and I hope that we both took a lesson away from it. For me, even if you have worked on a similar project before, address every project as if you have never worked with them on one previously (get all the facts from scratch). Hers, be very clear in your specification documents. And one for both of us; don't just read and confirm each part of the specifications, review them all with the other party to verify the verbiage relates the intent. William -- William E. Seiter Have you ever read a book that changed your life? Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com Enter passkey: goldengrove Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer http://William.Seiter.com =30099.21321.11 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3621 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
