Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Hello Jeffry, I hear that a lotI believe that there is good and bad everywhere. In my opinion, if you are really good and you do your job honestly, no matter who you are (native or foreigner), that you will get paid fairly and you will not be treated as servants (not sure about other countries). Be it a foreigner or a native, it does not really matter anymore. It may have mattered in the past but not anymore. I do not believe that foreigners are taking away the jobs natives can do (I refer to computer related jobs). I believe that natives are choosing the best work force for their current needs. Do I think that it is somewhat harder for foreigners than it is for natives? Yes. I do think that it is but this is a country of opportunity. The kind of opportunity that you will never find elsewhere. So I would take any hardness that I find here for a chance to better myself. H1B Visas are HARDLY being issued (so I hear). Its almost unheard of these days. Either you come here on a student visa (I-20 co-op program) or you better have a Green Card. H1B Visas can cost a LOT of money to companies and it is ONLY worth in exceptional cases. I heard about a company that brought this Chinese dude that was phenomenal. He could do virtually anything you can imagine. He was one of a kind programmer...very smart...later got admitted at MIT and today if I am not mistaken he works for NASA. The company sponsored his Green Card and everything. Only those kind of people are getting H1B Visas these days (so I heard). It is very selective these days. My sister is a Canadian citizen and she was telling me about Canadian immigration laws the other day. She told me that in order for anyone to enter Canada that they need to be qualified. The Canadians have a score system. You need to have a certain score in order to enter Canada. So for example, if you have a bachelors degree you automatically get more points. If you have a valid work history then that also counts towards your score. This way only the qualified people get in. What I love about Canada is that once they filtered everyone, they make it easy for you to get the Canadian citizenship. Forget about this bullshit of Green Card. There are no talks about foreigners being servants in Canadians (so I hear). I just think that we should implement some type of score system or qualification measurement so to only let those who are qualified into the country. Indeed, make it easy for newcomers to get their Green Cards. woww...OK! I gotta work now...got carried away...anyways...cya Ravi. http://ravigehlot.wordpress.com/ Jeffry Houser wrote: Personally I'd rather have smart people being brought into this country than them being sent elsewhere. I believe having intelligent people here it is a good long-term strategy for making this country better; no matter where they were born. I understand that many of the criticisms of such programs, such as H1B Visa, is that companies are bringing in foreigners to jobs that native USA-residents are qualified to do; and the workers brought in are treated as indenture servants. I do not know enough about said programs to tell whether that is a valid concern of a bunch of FUD. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4212 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Interesting outlook although over here at least the CIO's message to managers is move all development to the east(they are referring to India) because we are not an IT company. I had a meeting last week with a local manager and he told me they are seeing a 50% drop in efficiency by moving things to the east then he mentioned another 20% drop but I forget what that was for. He then went on to say how he then ends up paying for a competent PM locally to interface with one overseas whereas before he would have developers who wore the PM hat under his direction. Overall he said he is ending up with lesser quality work and paying more money but has been forced to go this direction. So basically the quality and integrity of the current workers means very little to the higher ups here. I'd like to think that I do a really good and honest job and for fair rates. I know I certainly have plenty of references to back that thought up. However more times than not I feel like I am treated more like a servant than anything else. Guess I should get back to working on the training document I am making to use to train the overseas based developers that are replacing me in upcoming months. Oh the joys of corporate IT. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Hello Jeffry, I hear that a lotI believe that there is good and bad everywhere. In my opinion, if you are really good and you do your job honestly, no matter who you are (native or foreigner), that you will get paid fairly and you will not be treated as servants (not sure about other countries). Be it a foreigner or a native, it does not really matter anymore. It may have mattered in the past but not anymore. I do not believe that foreigners are taking away the jobs natives can do (I refer to computer related jobs). I believe that natives are choosing the best work force for their current needs. Do I think that it is somewhat harder for foreigners than it is for natives? Yes. I do think that it is but this is a country of opportunity. The kind of opportunity that you will never find elsewhere. So I would take any hardness that I find here for a chance to better myself. H1B Visas are HARDLY being issued (so I hear). Its almost unheard of these days. Either you come here on a student visa (I-20 co-op program) or you better have a Green Card. H1B Visas can cost a LOT of money to companies and it is ONLY worth in exceptional cases. I heard about a company that brought this Chinese dude that was phenomenal. He could do virtually anything you can imagine. He was one of a kind programmer...very smart...later got admitted at MIT and today if I am not mistaken he works for NASA. The company sponsored his Green Card and everything. Only those kind of people are getting H1B Visas these days (so I heard). It is very selective these days. My sister is a Canadian citizen and she was telling me about Canadian immigration laws the other day. She told me that in order for anyone to enter Canada that they need to be qualified. The Canadians have a score system. You need to have a certain score in order to enter Canada. So for example, if you have a bachelors degree you automatically get more points. If you have a valid work history then that also counts towards your score. This way only the qualified people get in. What I love about Canada is that once they filtered everyone, they make it easy for you to get the Canadian citizenship. Forget about this bullshit of Green Card. There are no talks about foreigners being servants in Canadians (so I hear). I just think that we should implement some type of score system or qualification measurement so to only let those who are qualified into the country. Indeed, make it easy for newcomers to get their Green Cards. woww...OK! I gotta work now...got carried away...anyways...cya Ravi. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4213 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
I like Ravi's positive outlook, but I have to somewhat disagree and say that there are lots of companies that will, without hesitation, do what's best for them, regardless of how loyal you've been or how hard you've worked. It's up to you to keep your eyes open, so if you see it happening, you can react accordingly. A few years ago, I had taken a remote job with a company out of San Diego. They were a computer hardware/software reseller similar to CDW (but it was NOT CDW). I was one of four developers, only one of which worked on-site. The company flew us all out and we had a great time for the week meeting each other, going over systems, making plans, etc, etc, etc, while listening to the CEO and his right-hand-man make promises for the future. A few months later, my job got cut because they decided to cut one of the four developer positions and outsource that position to CHINA. They could get TEN chinese developers for what they were paying me (which wasn't much to begin with). When I spoke to the CEO's right-hand-man about this, and the promises made while we were all in San Diego, he said, hey, it's business. Nice. I've kept in touch with some of the people there, and as we all figured, the outsourcing came back to bite them in the ass, and I've even seen them advertise for developers on cf-jobs. So I guess the bottom line is this... NEVER take anybody's word unless it's in writing, and even then, doubt it. Rob ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4216 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
From what I gathered last week it is not just within their boarders. Like I mentioned someone here is already looking into outsourcing work to an outfit out of Brazil. About 7 years ago I worked on a project here that was with a Brazilian. Shared an office with him for about a year before he moved back and he has been working remotely from there ever since. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Hello Aaron, Right. I read that on the Washington Post the other day. I heard that Brazil has had an increase in tech jobs and more people are employed there these days. However, their jobs are not so much outsourced jobs from other countries but jobs created within their boundaries. Not sure how that's working though. Brazil is investing big bucks on education. They are creating more private schools than they ever created before which is good. Hopefully in years to come there will be more qualified Brazilians and more research coming from there. I have lived and worked in Brazil, Portugal, Canada and US. I have never experienced a market as aggressive as the US market. You work a lot here and you stress a lot. They take the milk out of you here. There is nothing like a laid back job in the US but we get remunerated and we learn a lot. The more the demand, the more one works and researches. Indeed, you become a better employee you are always going something here. Ravi. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4218 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Hello Rob, I agree with you. Companies will always do whats best for them no matter what. This is the nature of capitalism. One should never take anything for granted especially in this ever changing field of work. Ravi. RobG wrote: I like Ravi's positive outlook, but I have to somewhat disagree and say that there are lots of companies that will, without hesitation, do what's best for them, regardless of how loyal you've been or how hard you've worked. It's up to you to keep your eyes open, so if you see it happening, you can react accordingly. A few years ago, I had taken a remote job with a company out of San Diego. They were a computer hardware/software reseller similar to CDW (but it was NOT CDW). I was one of four developers, only one of which worked on-site. The company flew us all out and we had a great time for the week meeting each other, going over systems, making plans, etc, etc, etc, while listening to the CEO and his right-hand-man make promises for the future. A few months later, my job got cut because they decided to cut one of the four developer positions and outsource that position to CHINA. They could get TEN chinese developers for what they were paying me (which wasn't much to begin with). When I spoke to the CEO's right-hand-man about this, and the promises made while we were all in San Diego, he said, hey, it's business. Nice. I've kept in touch with some of the people there, and as we all figured, the outsourcing came back to bite them in the ass, and I've even seen them advertise for developers on cf-jobs. So I guess the bottom line is this... NEVER take anybody's word unless it's in writing, and even then, doubt it. Rob ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4219 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Hello Aaron, You are right. There are outsourced jobs in Brazil as there are their own created jobs. This is what I meant to say. I also know of a Brazilian guy that has been working for a company in the US while living in Brazil. But he tells me that his job is somewhat vulnerable. Usually companies prefer to have work force on-site. Ravi. Aaron Rouse wrote: From what I gathered last week it is not just within their boarders. Like I mentioned someone here is already looking into outsourcing work to an outfit out of Brazil. About 7 years ago I worked on a project here that was with a Brazilian. Shared an office with him for about a year before he moved back and he has been working remotely from there ever since. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Hello Aaron, Right. I read that on the Washington Post the other day. I heard that Brazil has had an increase in tech jobs and more people are employed there these days. However, their jobs are not so much outsourced jobs from other countries but jobs created within their boundaries. Not sure how that's working though. Brazil is investing big bucks on education. They are creating more private schools than they ever created before which is good. Hopefully in years to come there will be more qualified Brazilians and more research coming from there. I have lived and worked in Brazil, Portugal, Canada and US. I have never experienced a market as aggressive as the US market. You work a lot here and you stress a lot. They take the milk out of you here. There is nothing like a laid back job in the US but we get remunerated and we learn a lot. The more the demand, the more one works and researches. Indeed, you become a better employee you are always going something here. Ravi. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4220 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
RobG wrote: I like Ravi's positive outlook, but I have to somewhat disagree and say that there are lots of companies that will, without hesitation, do what's best for them, regardless of how loyal you've been or how hard you've worked. If it is a publicly traded company, it is illegal (in the US) to do anything else. The only responsibility the company has is to its shareholders. It is not uncommon for companies to change or do things that are not in the best interests of their employees, partners, or customers. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur Adobe Community Expert: http://tinyurl.com/684b5h http://www.twitter.com/reboog711 | Phone: 203-379-0773 -- Easy to use Interface Components for Flex Developers http://www.flextras.com?c=104 -- http://www.theflexshow.com http://www.jeffryhouser.com -- Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4221 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Or even themselves for the long run but in the shortrun it will make the stock holders happy. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Jeffry Houser j...@farcryfly.com wrote: RobG wrote: I like Ravi's positive outlook, but I have to somewhat disagree and say that there are lots of companies that will, without hesitation, do what's best for them, regardless of how loyal you've been or how hard you've worked. If it is a publicly traded company, it is illegal (in the US) to do anything else. The only responsibility the company has is to its shareholders. It is not uncommon for companies to change or do things that are not in the best interests of their employees, partners, or customers. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur Adobe Community Expert: http://tinyurl.com/684b5h http://www.twitter.com/reboog711 | Phone: 203-379-0773 -- Easy to use Interface Components for Flex Developers http://www.flextras.com?c=104 -- http://www.theflexshow.com http://www.jeffryhouser.com -- Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4222 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
