querying float values
hi, when i run a query on a table that contains float values it returns them without leading and trailing spaces, is there anyway to get it to do this. for example, in the database i have 12.00 stored but when i query it returns it as 12.0 - is there anyway to specify to return it exactly how it is in the database? thanks ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298019 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: querying float values
leading and trailing spaces sorry i meant leading or trailing zeros! ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298020 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: querying float values
is there anyway to specify to return it exactly how it is in the database? I'm not sure about that but you can use NumberFormat() to output them with the desired precision, etc. Also, I wouldn't assume that the floating point number was stored in the db in a particular format. Hth Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298021 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: querying float values
numberformat works perfectly thanks dominic is there anyway to specify to return it exactly how it is in the database? I'm not sure about that but you can use NumberFormat() to output them with the desired precision, etc. Also, I wouldn't assume that the floating point number was stored in the db in a particular format. Hth Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298023 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Calling a cfc remotely
When calling a cfc remotely - either as a webservice or as part of an ajax setup, etc - does the component get cached by ColdFusion at all? I.e. do I need to consider that the component will be reinstantiated every time I use it? Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298022 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Upload progress bar
Will, Why limit yourself: http://www.ajaxload.info/ we Wow. Thanks for that link! -- Josh ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298024 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Query for a particular date range
Hello All, I would like to query my database for a date range from Tuesday to Tuesday and return and retain the values. I do a private movie website and the person would like to see DVDs that were release during the week. Once that week is done. I upload new DVDs and then they are displayed. I am not sure of how to set up the dates to reflect. Sure could use some help on this. Thank you, Don Seibert ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298025 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Dollars ($$$) On the Net It's Your Card
Has anyone sold/implemented these? We've got a client that wants to sell gift certificates for their physical locations and allow for print or physical delivery; their service looks like a perfect fit but we need some insight on implementing it. Anyone? (*bump*) Has anyone worked with this company? The main company is Shift4 (cute name) and they have a card processor called Dollars on the Net and a gift card system called It's Your Card. Anyone? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298026 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Query for a particular date range
You could use a SQL BETWEEN or could just query for records with dates greater than 7 days past because sounds like you just want the past 7 days and not really Tuesday to Tuesday. On Feb 3, 2008 11:09 AM, Don R Seibert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I would like to query my database for a date range from Tuesday to Tuesday and return and retain the values. I do a private movie website and the person would like to see DVDs that were release during the week. Once that week is done. I upload new DVDs and then they are displayed. I am not sure of how to set up the dates to reflect. Sure could use some help on this. Thank you, Don Seibert ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298027 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Query for a particular date range
I would like to query my database for a date range from Tuesday to Tuesday and return and retain the values There is BETWEEN: SELECT theDataIWant FROM theTable WHERE theDatefield BETWEEN '2008-01-27' AND '2008-02-03' Or DateDiff(): SELECT * FROM theTable WHERE DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-01-27') = 0 AND DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-02-03') = 0 The greater than and less than may need to be the other way round, I never can do be sure without testing. HTH Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298028 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Query for a particular date range
I guess I should provide a little more info. The Tuesday to Tuesday thing is a sliding window. Each week will be new DVDs that will be available only for the Tuesday to Tuesday time frame. Then a new set of DVDs will be uploaded and available for the next Tuesday to Tuesday time frame. So I only want to display DVD titles during that time that fall within that time frame. Sorry if this sounds confusing as I am trying my best to explain. Donald Seibert -Original Message- From: Dominic Watson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:55 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Query for a particular date range I would like to query my database for a date range from Tuesday to Tuesday and return and retain the values There is BETWEEN: SELECT theDataIWant FROM theTable WHERE theDatefield BETWEEN '2008-01-27' AND '2008-02-03' Or DateDiff(): SELECT * FROM theTable WHERE DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-01-27') = 0 AND DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-02-03') = 0 The greater than and less than may need to be the other way round, I never can do be sure without testing. HTH Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298029 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Query for a particular date range
The BETWEEN would work fine for that or if your database has the datediff function then you could go that route. Each database has its own unique set of date functions along with some common ones so it is hard to say which one of those will work for you or not without knowing your database. Regardless to the best of my knowledge they all have the BETWEEN. So you can figure out your Tuesday dates either off the system date in your database or via CF and then use those on either end of the BETWEEN. On Feb 3, 2008 12:11 PM, Don R Seibert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I should provide a little more info. The Tuesday to Tuesday thing is a sliding window. Each week will be new DVDs that will be available only for the Tuesday to Tuesday time frame. Then a new set of DVDs will be uploaded and available for the next Tuesday to Tuesday time frame. So I only want to display DVD titles during that time that fall within that time frame. Sorry if this sounds confusing as I am trying my best to explain. Donald Seibert -Original Message- From: Dominic Watson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:55 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Query for a particular date range I would like to query my database for a date range from Tuesday to Tuesday and return and retain the values There is BETWEEN: SELECT theDataIWant FROM theTable WHERE theDatefield BETWEEN '2008-01-27' AND '2008-02-03' Or DateDiff(): SELECT * FROM theTable WHERE DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-01-27') = 0 AND DateDiff(d, theDatefield, '2008-02-03') = 0 The greater than and less than may need to be the other way round, I never can do be sure without testing. HTH Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298030 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: JavaCC/ANTLR grammar for ColdFusion?
Hi Mark Yeah, a partial parser would be really cool! I'm really curious about how you approached this problem. Would you mind passing along what you have? Chances are decent that I won't make much progress, but either way I'll send you back whatever I get. Another option: you could post it somewhere like sourceforge and I can check it out from there. Whatever, my email address is attached so feel free to reply off-list. Thanks Mark From: Mark Mandel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 2/2/2008 3:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: JavaCC/ANTLR grammar for ColdFusion? Mark, I started a ANTLR one a while back for the CFEclipse project, but never really got around to finishing it. It's probably at ~ 85% done. Does a partial parser help you? ;) I've not used JavaCC, but ANTLR is a fantastic tool to use, and is * very * flexible. Parsing CF is a real pain, as it is one strnge language syntactically. Mark On Feb 2, 2008 7:39 AM, Gaulin, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Has anybody done any work on pulling together a grammar for ColdFusion, something that might be a good start for a compiler-compiler like JavaCC or ANTLR? (If you've used these tools before, would you recommend one over the other?) I'd like to try some static analysis on CF code and having a decent parser is a prerequisite, and I'd like it to be in java for it can integrate easily with other things (like CFE). Thanks Mark ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298031 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CF8 HTML CFGRID with checkbox possible with binding?
In the cfc that i return the query, i just added a column cfset array = [true,false] cfset queryAddcolumn(qry, 'checkbox', 'bit', array and in the cfgrid, i bind to the cfc, and i use the following cfgridcolumn cfgridcolumn name='checkbox' header='test' type='boolean' display='true' select='true' the checkbox still doesn't show up, no matter after how many clicks, in FF2 and IE6. Any idea how to make the checkbox show up? do I have to write my own Ext renderer? THANKS! ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298032 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Calling a cfc remotely
When calling your CFC remotely, you wouldn't be accessing the object as part of any particular scope, so the object would be reinstantiated on each call (remember to properly scope your variables). If you want your object to be cached in some fashion, have your template call a .cfm page which accesses your object from a scope, where you might have it cached in the SESSION or APPLICATION scope, where you cfoutput your return inside of a cfcontent block specifying a text return type. I'm fairly sure you couldn't do this for a webservice call, but I've used this technique before with Ajax calls prior to CF8 (for different reasons). Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Dominic Watson wrote: When calling a cfc remotely - either as a webservice or as part of an ajax setup, etc - does the component get cached by ColdFusion at all? I.e. do I need to consider that the component will be reinstantiated every time I use it? Dominic ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298033 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Calling a cfc remotely
When calling your CFC remotely, you wouldn't be accessing the object as part of any particular scope, so the object would be reinstantiated on each call (remember to properly scope your variables). Thanks Steve, that's what I suspected - good to know. Funnily enough I have been visiting your blog a lot recently on the reason for my question - great stuff on there (I am wanting to use a little ajax in an application, in particular cfgrid - finding it somewhat slow loading though so am looking for other solutions...) Dominic -- Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:298034 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
CFGrid - binding data to a url (as opposed to a cfc)
Can this be done? So:
cfgrid bind=index.cfm?event=ajax.searchResultsterm={search} ...
If so I assume the output of the http request would have to be some sort of
xml...(???).
Dominic
--
Blog it up: http://fusion.dominicwatson.co.uk
~|
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Re: Dead Beat Clients.
On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project is not completed. The only work my husband ever seems to get paid in full for is for work done on-site. I'm sorry, but this really sounds like bad business not on the part of the client, but on your husband's part. If the same client did not pay several different contractors, they are probably at fault. If the same contractor doesn't get paid by several different clients, he is probably at fault. Yes there are deadbeat clients out there. Perhaps a list would be helpful. But maybe your husband doesn't need instead of a list of clients to avoid. Maybe he needs some training / help in drafting contracts and dealing with said dead-beat clients. I've done very little on contract myself, but if I ever started, I would seek some help from someone more experienced first. Someone like Jeff Houser on this list generally has the best advice and has experience with clients of all types. He has been burned, but has not come here bitching and moaning and wanting to name names. He figures out what went wrong and tries to fix it for future clients. Your husband (and yourself) would do well to do the same. And / Or hire someone to train / help you learn how to deal with the past problems. If such a deadbeat list were to exist, I may look at it as a reference to beware of. But I'm not likely to accept it as gospel that the client will not pay. I would have to question the contractor who put the name there in the first place. Did they really deliver what the client asked for? What kind of communication did he have with the client? Etcetera, etcetera. I know that there are 2 sides to every story. Simply putting a client name on a list is very one-sided. Just my 2 cents. -- Matt Williams It's the question that drives us. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3622 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
Hi Matt, From what I read you have never had many contracts but I can vouch for what Angry Housewife says that I too have been paid when I go client locations to work but when I am up at three o clock in the morning doing work and submit for those hours I never seem to get paid even if I email or IM the client at that time. I have worked in the Contracts Department of companies like Sprint and Cingular and I have seen them get burned and have to resort to Suing to get their money back so again I have to disagree with you about negotiations. A Contract is a contract; here are the three ways you can break a contract per the UCC -Uniform Code of Commerce #1 Incapacity- Mentally Unfit to make a contract #2 Age - To young to be making a contract #3 Breach of contract - One party or another did not complete part of contract So in our case it is almost always number three either the developer did not do ANYWORK (or they signed a completed project contract) or the Client Breached the Contract by not paying Here is the one I find funny- A Client that breeches the contract usually wants to hold you (the Consultant) to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) meaning no contact with his or her end client after they terminated your services even though they have not paid you. Ok. So Jeff has some experience with this so have I, I have worked for two different Law Enforcement Agencies, Two Different Court Houses in two different States, I have friends who are lawyers. I am an expert in Contract Law. And I always look up clients on WWW.PACER.GOV (Federal DISTRICT Court Houses Case Party Index) yet I too get burned so UNLIKE you I do not consider getting burned me not KNOWING how to negotiate. I was my School Debate Champion and have won lawsuits again Fortune 500 Companies representing myself (pro se). The list she talks about is needed. She also has another point no one has picked up on, What about us HAVING A UNION. The all contracts would go thru the Union anynone not paying would be sued by the Union. Programmer would not need to come up with $2000 just to get back $2500. Instead they could pay 120 a year or $10 a Month to belong to a National Technology Workers Union that would have attorneys on staff would could deal with this mess, I think that until that day comes along we should have this list and if the Clients want a list of Bad Programmers they had better pay one of US to create IT! Just my $10,000! On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project is not completed. The only work my husband ever seems to get paid in full for is for work done on-site. I'm sorry, but this really sounds like bad business not on the part of the client, but on your husband's part. If the same client did not pay several different contractors, they are probably at fault. If the same contractor doesn't get paid by several different clients, he is probably at fault. Yes there are deadbeat clients out there. Perhaps a list would be helpful. But maybe your husband doesn't need instead of a list of clients to avoid. Maybe he needs some training / help in drafting contracts and dealing with said dead-beat clients. I've done very little on contract myself, but if I ever started, I would seek some help from someone more experienced first. Someone like Jeff Houser on this list generally has the best advice and has experience with clients of all types. He has been burned, but has not come here bitching and moaning and wanting to name names. He figures out what went wrong and tries to fix it for future clients. Your husband (and yourself) would do well to do the same. And / Or hire someone to train / help you learn how to deal with the past problems. If such a deadbeat list were to exist, I may look at it as a reference to beware of. But I'm not likely to accept it as gospel that the client will not pay. I would have to question the contractor who put the name there in the first place. Did they really deliver what the client asked for? What kind of communication did he have with the client? Etcetera, etcetera. I know that there are 2 sides to every story. Simply putting a client name on a list is very one-sided. Just my 2 cents. -- Matt Williams It's the question that drives us. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive:
RE: Dead Beat Clients.
I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat clients as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. To a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we have an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? I think that having a union is a step in the right direction, but it is a long road to get there. Maybe we can have a poll to see how many people would support it. In the mean time I would suggest that everyone have access to a lawyer or a lawyer system (pre-paid legal). This way you can have a lawyer draft a letter when you aren't paid, and you can have your 'basic' contract reviewed. Regarding contracts. Does anyone have any contract examples that have worked well that they would share with the rest of us? William -- William E. Seiter Have you ever read a book that changed your life? Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com Enter passkey: goldengrove Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer http://William.Seiter.com -Original Message- From: Vincent Cannady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:10 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. Hi Matt, From what I read you have never had many contracts but I can vouch for what Angry Housewife says that I too have been paid when I go client locations to work but when I am up at three o clock in the morning doing work and submit for those hours I never seem to get paid even if I email or IM the client at that time. I have worked in the Contracts Department of companies like Sprint and Cingular and I have seen them get burned and have to resort to Suing to get their money back so again I have to disagree with you about negotiations. A Contract is a contract; here are the three ways you can break a contract per the UCC -Uniform Code of Commerce #1 Incapacity- Mentally Unfit to make a contract #2 Age - To young to be making a contract #3 Breach of contract - One party or another did not complete part of contract So in our case it is almost always number three either the developer did not do ANYWORK (or they signed a completed project contract) or the Client Breached the Contract by not paying Here is the one I find funny- A Client that breeches the contract usually wants to hold you (the Consultant) to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) meaning no contact with his or her end client after they terminated your services even though they have not paid you. Ok. So Jeff has some experience with this so have I, I have worked for two different Law Enforcement Agencies, Two Different Court Houses in two different States, I have friends who are lawyers. I am an expert in Contract Law. And I always look up clients on WWW.PACER.GOV (Federal DISTRICT Court Houses Case Party Index) yet I too get burned so UNLIKE you I do not consider getting burned me not KNOWING how to negotiate. I was my School Debate Champion and have won lawsuits again Fortune 500 Companies representing myself (pro se). The list she talks about is needed. She also has another point no one has picked up on, What about us HAVING A UNION. The all contracts would go thru the Union anynone not paying would be sued by the Union. Programmer would not need to come up with $2000 just to get back $2500. Instead they could pay 120 a year or $10 a Month to belong to a National Technology Workers Union that would have attorneys on staff would could deal with this mess, I think that until that day comes along we should have this list and if the Clients want a list of Bad Programmers they had better pay one of US to create IT! Just my $10,000! On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project is not completed. The only work my husband ever seems to get paid in full for is for work done on-site. I'm sorry, but this really sounds like bad business not on the part of the client, but on your husband's part. If the same client did not pay several different contractors, they are probably at fault. If the same contractor doesn't get paid by several different clients, he is probably at fault. Yes there are deadbeat clients out there. Perhaps a list would be helpful. But maybe your husband doesn't need instead of a list of clients to avoid. Maybe he needs some training / help in drafting contracts and dealing with said dead-beat clients. I've done very little on contract myself, but if I ever started, I would seek some help from someone more experienced first. Someone like Jeff Houser on this list generally has the best advice and has experience with clients of all types.
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I will simply note 3 things: 1) I would never run such a list due to liability 2) Since 1995 I've only had 1 dead beat client.so perhaps it's not just the clients?? 3) Why are you hiding behind a temp Yahoo account and not giving your name? Surely this means you're ever bit as scared of liability as everyone says you should be. I feel for anyone that gets a raw deal from a client, so everyone should protect themselves. Paying upfront before code is released is great way to avoid these issues. Cheers - Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3626 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
It is true that I do not have much contracting experience. And I am probably naive about all the things that can go wrong. Because of this and due to Isaac's comments, I will retract my comment that because a contractor has had several non-paying clients that the contractor is at fault. On the other hand, I will uphold my belief that there is two sides (maybe even more, if there are other middle-men or vendors at play) to the story. I'm not saying that a list is necessarily a bad idea. What I am saying, and what I would encourage every other developer to do, is take that list with a grain of salt. Heh, if I was approached by a client that I knew had the worst reputation on the dead-beat list, I would probably ask them about it straight up. But I would not immediately rule them out until I felt I had both (all) sides of the story. As for a union, who knows, maybe it is a good idea. It would take a bit more dissatisfaction than the few on this list before it would happen. I know there are a lot of developers that have been burned, but are probably quite satisfied overall. I also will uphold my belief that getting some help on contracts and communication with clients is always a good idea. Just like always trying to expand and improve your programming skill, even the experienced contractors should keep learning how to better deal with clients. My humble opinions, Matt Williams ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3627 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
Some collective representation for IT workers has its advantages and I am sure disadvantages as well. One thing that has always annoyed me is how IT workers are treated by the tax man vs some other occupations and I think a collective representation could have the power in numbers to change things like that. On Feb 3, 2008 2:36 PM, William Seiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat clients as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. To a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we have an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? I think that having a union is a step in the right direction, but it is a long road to get there. Maybe we can have a poll to see how many people would support it. In the mean time I would suggest that everyone have access to a lawyer or a lawyer system (pre-paid legal). This way you can have a lawyer draft a letter when you aren't paid, and you can have your 'basic' contract reviewed. Regarding contracts. Does anyone have any contract examples that have worked well that they would share with the rest of us? William -- William E. Seiter Have you ever read a book that changed your life? Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com Enter passkey: goldengrove Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer http://William.Seiter.com -Original Message- From: Vincent Cannady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:10 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. Hi Matt, From what I read you have never had many contracts but I can vouch for what Angry Housewife says that I too have been paid when I go client locations to work but when I am up at three o clock in the morning doing work and submit for those hours I never seem to get paid even if I email or IM the client at that time. I have worked in the Contracts Department of companies like Sprint and Cingular and I have seen them get burned and have to resort to Suing to get their money back so again I have to disagree with you about negotiations. A Contract is a contract; here are the three ways you can break a contract per the UCC -Uniform Code of Commerce #1 Incapacity- Mentally Unfit to make a contract #2 Age - To young to be making a contract #3 Breach of contract - One party or another did not complete part of contract So in our case it is almost always number three either the developer did not do ANYWORK (or they signed a completed project contract) or the Client Breached the Contract by not paying Here is the one I find funny- A Client that breeches the contract usually wants to hold you (the Consultant) to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) meaning no contact with his or her end client after they terminated your services even though they have not paid you. Ok. So Jeff has some experience with this so have I, I have worked for two different Law Enforcement Agencies, Two Different Court Houses in two different States, I have friends who are lawyers. I am an expert in Contract Law. And I always look up clients on WWW.PACER.GOV (Federal DISTRICT Court Houses Case Party Index) yet I too get burned so UNLIKE you I do not consider getting burned me not KNOWING how to negotiate. I was my School Debate Champion and have won lawsuits again Fortune 500 Companies representing myself (pro se). The list she talks about is needed. She also has another point no one has picked up on, What about us HAVING A UNION. The all contracts would go thru the Union anynone not paying would be sued by the Union. Programmer would not need to come up with $2000 just to get back $2500. Instead they could pay 120 a year or $10 a Month to belong to a National Technology Workers Union that would have attorneys on staff would could deal with this mess, I think that until that day comes along we should have this list and if the Clients want a list of Bad Programmers they had better pay one of US to create IT! Just my $10,000! On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project is not completed. The only work my husband ever seems to get paid in full for is for work done on-site. I'm sorry, but this really sounds like bad business not on the part of the client, but on your husband's part. If the same client did not pay several different contractors, they are probably at fault. If the same contractor doesn't get paid by several different clients, he is probably at fault. Yes there are deadbeat clients out there.
RE: Dead Beat Clients.
What kind of issues have you seen with the 'Tax Man'? -- William E. Seiter Have you ever read a book that changed your life? Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com Enter passkey: goldengrove Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer http://William.Seiter.com -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 2:05 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. Some collective representation for IT workers has its advantages and I am sure disadvantages as well. One thing that has always annoyed me is how IT workers are treated by the tax man vs some other occupations and I think a collective representation could have the power in numbers to change things like that. On Feb 3, 2008 2:36 PM, William Seiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat clients as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. To a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we have an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? I think that having a union is a step in the right direction, but it is a long road to get there. Maybe we can have a poll to see how many people would support it. In the mean time I would suggest that everyone have access to a lawyer or a lawyer system (pre-paid legal). This way you can have a lawyer draft a letter when you aren't paid, and you can have your 'basic' contract reviewed. Regarding contracts. Does anyone have any contract examples that have worked well that they would share with the rest of us? William -- William E. Seiter Have you ever read a book that changed your life? Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com Enter passkey: goldengrove Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer http://William.Seiter.com -Original Message- From: Vincent Cannady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:10 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. Hi Matt, From what I read you have never had many contracts but I can vouch for what Angry Housewife says that I too have been paid when I go client locations to work but when I am up at three o clock in the morning doing work and submit for those hours I never seem to get paid even if I email or IM the client at that time. I have worked in the Contracts Department of companies like Sprint and Cingular and I have seen them get burned and have to resort to Suing to get their money back so again I have to disagree with you about negotiations. A Contract is a contract; here are the three ways you can break a contract per the UCC -Uniform Code of Commerce #1 Incapacity- Mentally Unfit to make a contract #2 Age - To young to be making a contract #3 Breach of contract - One party or another did not complete part of contract So in our case it is almost always number three either the developer did not do ANYWORK (or they signed a completed project contract) or the Client Breached the Contract by not paying Here is the one I find funny- A Client that breeches the contract usually wants to hold you (the Consultant) to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) meaning no contact with his or her end client after they terminated your services even though they have not paid you. Ok. So Jeff has some experience with this so have I, I have worked for two different Law Enforcement Agencies, Two Different Court Houses in two different States, I have friends who are lawyers. I am an expert in Contract Law. And I always look up clients on WWW.PACER.GOV (Federal DISTRICT Court Houses Case Party Index) yet I too get burned so UNLIKE you I do not consider getting burned me not KNOWING how to negotiate. I was my School Debate Champion and have won lawsuits again Fortune 500 Companies representing myself (pro se). The list she talks about is needed. She also has another point no one has picked up on, What about us HAVING A UNION. The all contracts would go thru the Union anynone not paying would be sued by the Union. Programmer would not need to come up with $2000 just to get back $2500. Instead they could pay 120 a year or $10 a Month to belong to a National Technology Workers Union that would have attorneys on staff would could deal with this mess, I think that until that day comes along we should have this list and if the Clients want a list of Bad Programmers they had better pay one of US to create IT! Just my $10,000! On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project is not completed. The only work my husband
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I think unions are the single biggest evil in America today. If unions started making their way into programming, I would gladly trumpet my non-union status, and if it ever became impossible to do work without a union card, I would find another line of work. On Feb 3, 2008 3:36 PM, William Seiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat clients as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. To a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we have an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3630 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
In fact, I'm probably treated a bit better because in Connecticut, web development services are exempt from sales tax, which is one less headache I have to deal with. I thought sales tax only applied to product. Am I like way out of touch? -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 503.236.3691 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3635 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I thought unions dealt with employer-employee relationships; whereas this thread has been dealing with company - vendor relationships. Am I wrong in that? I can't imagine how a programmer's union would help me. Jerry Johnson wrote: I think unions are the single biggest evil in America today. If unions started making their way into programming, I would gladly trumpet my non-union status, and if it ever became impossible to do work without a union card, I would find another line of work. On Feb 3, 2008 3:36 PM, William Seiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat clients as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. To a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we have an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3632 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I was wondering that too... I don't believe that myself, as a business owner, is treated any differently than other business owners who are no in the IT field. In fact, I'm probably treated a bit better because in Connecticut, web development services are exempt from sales tax, which is one less headache I have to deal with. William Seiter wrote: What kind of issues have you seen with the 'Tax Man'? -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3633 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I think that is normally the case, I am seeming to recall certain forms of labor in some of our businesses we had to do sales tax on. One could maybe debate if code is a product though. On Feb 3, 2008 10:24 PM, s. isaac dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, I'm probably treated a bit better because in Connecticut, web development services are exempt from sales tax, which is one less headache I have to deal with. I thought sales tax only applied to product. Am I like way out of touch? -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 503.236.3691 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3636 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Dead Beat Clients.
I think that is normally the case, I am seeming to recall certain forms of labor in some of our businesses we had to do sales tax on. One could maybe debate if code is a product though. I would think it would at least depend on who owns the copyright. If you're selling a license and retaining the copyright then there's a case for it being a product. If they get the copyright, then it's definitely a service, same as any other work for hire. Though I suppose it might be arguable that the license to use someone else's intellectual property is a service -- I'm not that familiar with IP law though, so I know that's out of my depth. -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 503.236.3691 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3637 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
