Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

Thanks!

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Matthew Williams
wrote:

>
> And their support is active pretty much 24x7.  It's more expensive than
> SeeFusion (or at least, was when I was shopping for a solution), but
> their support crew really knows their stuff.
>
> --
> Matthew Williams
> Geodesic GraFX
> www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog
> twitter.com/ophbalance
>
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Matthew Williams]

And their support is active pretty much 24x7.  It's more expensive than 
SeeFusion (or at least, was when I was shopping for a solution), but 
their support crew really knows their stuff.

-- 
Matthew Williams
Geodesic GraFX
www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog
twitter.com/ophbalance


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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

There is a bit of documentation here:
http://www.seefusion.com/index.cfm?do=c_guide.main

The guys at Webapper have usually replied to me when I've had questions.
 You might ping them for help too.  Honestly though, tinkering with it
awhile is the best way to learn.  You start to notice little things just by
watching the data in the reporting.

Also, I would definitely look at FusionReactor as well.  SeeFusion is a
good product, but FusionReactor is a little more actively maintained.

-Cameron

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

> It's looking like we might have a DB issue...every 11 seconds, it is
> becoming unresponsive for a few seconds.
>
> Is there any good online reference for configuring SeeFusion?  I would
> definitely like to look and learn so that as we are setting up CF9, we can
> get this set up right.


-- 
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--
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im: cameroncf
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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

It's looking like we might have a DB issue...every 11 seconds, it is
becoming unresponsive for a few seconds.

Is there any good online reference for configuring SeeFusion?  I would
definitely like to look and learn so that as we are setting up CF9, we can
get this set up right.

Thanks for you help guys!
Eric

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

> If i click on the trace button, we get a stack trace...so I am assuming
> that it is set up for them.  I am just not seeing them on the alerts...
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Cameron Childress wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that should attempt to run an on demand stack trace, just to make
>> sure they work.  That is also where I think the instructions probably
>> appear if you are not properly configured for stack traces.
>>
>> -Cameron
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Eric Roberts <
>> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > So by enabled does that mean click on the trace button in the stack
>> > section?
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Cameron Childress > > >wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Eric Roberts <
>> > > ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a
>> "variable"
>> > > name
>> > > > in the alert set up?
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > I want to say it does it by default once stack traces are enabled in
>> > > SeeFusion.  I can't remember.  I'd have to hop onto a client's VPN to
>> > take
>> > > a look at the configuration screen(s).  Give it a shot first and if
>> you
>> > > can't figure it out let me know and I will look.
>> > >
>> > > -Cameron
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Cameron Childress
>> > > --
>> > > p:   678.637.5072
>> > > im: cameroncf
>> > > facebook  |
>> > > twitter |
>> > > google+ 
>> > >
>> > > ...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

If i click on the trace button, we get a stack trace...so I am assuming
that it is set up for them.  I am just not seeing them on the alerts...

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Cameron Childress wrote:

>
> I think that should attempt to run an on demand stack trace, just to make
> sure they work.  That is also where I think the instructions probably
> appear if you are not properly configured for stack traces.
>
> -Cameron
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Eric Roberts <
> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > So by enabled does that mean click on the trace button in the stack
> > section?
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Cameron Childress  > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Eric Roberts <
> > > ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a
> "variable"
> > > name
> > > > in the alert set up?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I want to say it does it by default once stack traces are enabled in
> > > SeeFusion.  I can't remember.  I'd have to hop onto a client's VPN to
> > take
> > > a look at the configuration screen(s).  Give it a shot first and if you
> > > can't figure it out let me know and I will look.
> > >
> > > -Cameron
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cameron Childress
> > > --
> > > p:   678.637.5072
> > > im: cameroncf
> > > facebook  |
> > > twitter |
> > > google+ 
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

I think that should attempt to run an on demand stack trace, just to make
sure they work.  That is also where I think the instructions probably
appear if you are not properly configured for stack traces.

-Cameron

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

>
> So by enabled does that mean click on the trace button in the stack
> section?
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Cameron Childress  >wrote:
>
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Eric Roberts <
> > ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
> >
> > > How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a "variable"
> > name
> > > in the alert set up?
> > >
> >
> > I want to say it does it by default once stack traces are enabled in
> > SeeFusion.  I can't remember.  I'd have to hop onto a client's VPN to
> take
> > a look at the configuration screen(s).  Give it a shot first and if you
> > can't figure it out let me know and I will look.
> >
> > -Cameron
> >
> > --
> > Cameron Childress
> > --
> > p:   678.637.5072
> > im: cameroncf
> > facebook  |
> > twitter |
> > google+ 
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

So by enabled does that mean click on the trace button in the stack section?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Cameron Childress wrote:

>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Eric Roberts <
> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> > How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a "variable"
> name
> > in the alert set up?
> >
>
> I want to say it does it by default once stack traces are enabled in
> SeeFusion.  I can't remember.  I'd have to hop onto a client's VPN to take
> a look at the configuration screen(s).  Give it a shot first and if you
> can't figure it out let me know and I will look.
>
> -Cameron
>
> --
> Cameron Childress
> --
> p:   678.637.5072
> im: cameroncf
> facebook  |
> twitter |
> google+ 
>
> ...
>
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

> How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a "variable" name
> in the alert set up?
>

I want to say it does it by default once stack traces are enabled in
SeeFusion.  I can't remember.  I'd have to hop onto a client's VPN to take
a look at the configuration screen(s).  Give it a shot first and if you
can't figure it out let me know and I will look.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
facebook  |
twitter |
google+ 

...


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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

Not sure on the stack trace...we are looking into that.  We have the alert
set 15 out of 16.  Our alerts go to a developer's group email that is sent
out to all of the developers.  Let me check on the stack trace and see if
that is set up and take a look.  Thanks guys!

How do you include the stack trace in the email?  Is that a "variable" name
in the alert set up?

Eric

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Childress wrote:

>
> Eric-
>
> First, make sure SeeFusion is configured to do stack traces.  I don't have
> the admin in front of me and I can't remember where this is, but it
> shouldn't be hard to find.  I seem to remember that there is some minor
> tweak you sometimes have to make to CF to make them work.
>
> Next, in the alerts config, I usually setup am email alert to send me a
> stack trace when the threads are about to max out.  For example, if your
> max is 16, set this alert to fire off when you reach 14 of 15 concurrent
> threads.  You want to catch it when a problem is happening, but not when
> it's dying so bad that you can't get a good trace.  Also - I typically
> setup the alert to only tell me about the problem once every two minutes.
>  I can't remember that setting, but it's in the alert config.
>
> I usually setup a similar email alert for requests taking almost the max
> time allowed.  For example, if you have a request timeout of 30 seconds,
> have it email you a stack trace at 28 seconds, just before the shit hits
> the fan.  If you aren't using any timeouts, then just pick a number that
> you think means "something has gone terribly wrong and I'd like to know
> about it".
>
> Once you have a good stack trace or two, scour them for anything that looks
> out of place.  Essentially you will be looking at all the code that was
> executing inside CF when the problem happened.  If the trace doesn't make
> sense to you, sanitize a suspicious bit or two of it and post it to the
> list or somewhere on the web we can see it.
>
> Lastly - you may wan tto setup a gmail account to catch these emails.  If
> something goes real wrong, you may get lots of mail.
>
> -Cameron
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Eric Roberts <
> ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> > We do have alerts that let us know when we have maxed out the
> > threads...but i am not sure how to measure the character of that...if it
> > is, as Cam said...just a fat thread that is churning away, or a bunch of
> > queued threads awaiting a response from the DB.  I am pretty new here and
> > have never used SeeFusion before...so again, forgive my ignorance...
> >
>
>
> --
> Cameron Childress
> --
> p:   678.637.5072
> im: cameroncf
> facebook  |
> twitter |
> google+ 
>
> ...
>
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

Eric-

First, make sure SeeFusion is configured to do stack traces.  I don't have
the admin in front of me and I can't remember where this is, but it
shouldn't be hard to find.  I seem to remember that there is some minor
tweak you sometimes have to make to CF to make them work.

Next, in the alerts config, I usually setup am email alert to send me a
stack trace when the threads are about to max out.  For example, if your
max is 16, set this alert to fire off when you reach 14 of 15 concurrent
threads.  You want to catch it when a problem is happening, but not when
it's dying so bad that you can't get a good trace.  Also - I typically
setup the alert to only tell me about the problem once every two minutes.
 I can't remember that setting, but it's in the alert config.

I usually setup a similar email alert for requests taking almost the max
time allowed.  For example, if you have a request timeout of 30 seconds,
have it email you a stack trace at 28 seconds, just before the shit hits
the fan.  If you aren't using any timeouts, then just pick a number that
you think means "something has gone terribly wrong and I'd like to know
about it".

Once you have a good stack trace or two, scour them for anything that looks
out of place.  Essentially you will be looking at all the code that was
executing inside CF when the problem happened.  If the trace doesn't make
sense to you, sanitize a suspicious bit or two of it and post it to the
list or somewhere on the web we can see it.

Lastly - you may wan tto setup a gmail account to catch these emails.  If
something goes real wrong, you may get lots of mail.

-Cameron

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

> We do have alerts that let us know when we have maxed out the
> threads...but i am not sure how to measure the character of that...if it
> is, as Cam said...just a fat thread that is churning away, or a bunch of
> queued threads awaiting a response from the DB.  I am pretty new here and
> have never used SeeFusion before...so again, forgive my ignorance...
>


-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
facebook  |
twitter |
google+ 

...


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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

We are in the process of upgrading to 9 64 bit and hopefully, we should
have that accomplished by the end of January.  In fact, I am currently
combing through the code to make sure everything is compatible...the
upgrade (as well as a move from VSS to SVN) is one of my babies :-D.  We do
have and use SeeFusion.  The action in the threads shows that it is
executing a query, but the database itself is showing little to no
activity. We do have alerts that let us know when we have maxed out the
threads...but i am not sure how to measure the character of that...if it
is, as Cam said...just a fat thread that is churning away, or a bunch of
queued threads awaiting a response from the DB.  I am pretty new here and
have never used SeeFusion before...so again, forgive my ignorance...

Eric

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Dave Watts  wrote:

>
> > Agreed 100%.  There is no "rule of thumb" for active threads, regardless
> of
> > what anyone may tell you or what you read on a fantastic blog.
>  Monitoring
> > is the ONLY way to know for sure what your performance problem is.
>
> I want to +1 this so much.
>
> Also, you might want to consider upgrading to a newer version, as they
> allow use of newer JVMs and generally perform better.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
> GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers, online, or onsit
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Dave Watts]

> Agreed 100%.  There is no "rule of thumb" for active threads, regardless of
> what anyone may tell you or what you read on a fantastic blog.  Monitoring
> is the ONLY way to know for sure what your performance problem is.

I want to +1 this so much.

Also, you might want to consider upgrading to a newer version, as they
allow use of newer JVMs and generally perform better.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsit

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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Eric Roberts <
ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote:

> We have SeeFusion...
>

Having it isn't enough - you have to use it.  :)

Does SeeFusion tell you anything valuable?  High CPU?  High memory?  High
queues?  Stare at it for awhile and look for things that are out of place.
 Look for SQL calls that are abnormally long.  Take a stack trace when the
server is acting up and examine it (or post it for us to look at for you).

Definitely at a minimum I would make sure the SeeFusion SQL wrapper is
configured and that you have at least one alert setup to email you a stack
trace when threadcount gets close to it's max and when execution times get
close to max.

90% of the time those stack traces will tell you where your problem is.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
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twitter |
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...


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Re: CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

We have SeeFusion...

Our servers are VMs that are assigned to a single core of a multicore
processor (we can add more to the VM obviously).

So with that said, would 20 be too much?  Could we go higher?  This is
kinda out of my realm, so forgive my ignorance on this.

Eric

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Matthew Williams
wrote:

>
> That is a highly variable "it depends".  On a 4 core IBM Blade, I let CF
> have 25 max CF/JRun threads to play with.  Even then, things would just
> bomb out to hell if the database puked and started refusing connections
> (3 different database servers, several instances on each to handle
> database requests depending on where the data lived).  If you've not
> checked out FusionReactor or SeeFusion, it's helpful in finding out
> where the breaking point is.
>
> --
> Matthew Williams
> Geodesic GraFX
> www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog
> twitter.com/ophbalance
>
>
> 

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Re: CF7 threads

[Cameron Childress]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Matthew Williams
wrote:

>  If you've not
> checked out FusionReactor or SeeFusion, it's helpful in finding out
> where the breaking point is.


Agreed 100%.  There is no "rule of thumb" for active threads, regardless of
what anyone may tell you or what you read on a fantastic blog.  Monitoring
is the ONLY way to know for sure what your performance problem is.

If you find that the CF server is waiting around alot for external calls
(DB, HTTP, etc) causing heavy queuing, then increasing threads might help.

If you find that CF is actively and heavily chugging along on all your
threads and they are just "heavy" then lowering your allowed threads might
help.

Even if you *guess* and change the threadcount, it will be hard to measure
real success of the change without monitoring in place.  Set it up, take a
baseline reading, then start carefully making changes one at a time.
 Measure the difference before/after and eventually you'll know what the
"best" setting is.

Re-evaluate frequently.

-Cameron

-- 
Cameron Childress
--
p:   678.637.5072
im: cameroncf
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Re: CF7 threads

[Matthew Williams]

That is a highly variable "it depends".  On a 4 core IBM Blade, I let CF 
have 25 max CF/JRun threads to play with.  Even then, things would just 
bomb out to hell if the database puked and started refusing connections 
(3 different database servers, several instances on each to handle 
database requests depending on where the data lived).  If you've not 
checked out FusionReactor or SeeFusion, it's helpful in finding out 
where the breaking point is.

-- 
Matthew Williams
Geodesic GraFX
www.geodesicgrafx.com/blog
twitter.com/ophbalance


~|
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CF7 threads

[Eric Roberts]

We are having some performance issues on our website and we are
contemplating increasing the number of threads.  It is currently set to
16.  What is a good number or how should we determine what a good number is
based on our system?  I believe it is on win2008 server and obviously it's
32 bit.  The is CF7...

Eric


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