RE: (ot) Page Faults
True... That is worth mentioning. But... The web edition will not run MSSQL - so I don't think that is the edition he is using. -mark Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:joch...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:59 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: (ot) Page Faults On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Michael Muller wrote: > BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping up to 3 or 4? Not if it is Windows Webserver Edition, which is limited at 2 GB. Jochem -- Jochem van Dieten http://jochem.vandieten.net/ ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322678 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: (ot) Page Faults
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Michael Muller wrote: > BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping up to 3 or 4? Not if it is Windows Webserver Edition, which is limited at 2 GB. Jochem -- Jochem van Dieten http://jochem.vandieten.net/ ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322677 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: (ot) Page Faults
Sorry... That should have read "...make use of 2GB on a 32bit windows box" -Mark -Original Message- From: Mark Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:49 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: (ot) Page Faults Michael, It's not strictly true that "windows can't address more than 2gb". Windows cannot address more than 2gb of contiguous memory address space. That certainly affects the JVM to be sure because the JVM needs contiguous space to run. But you CAN make use of more than 2GB on a 32gb windows box. For example, you can put 32Gigs on it and run 24 instances of ColdFusion in multi-server mode - each with a contiguous block of memory (see what I mean). As for SQL server, windows and SQL work together hand in glove on memory and adding more will almost certainly help MSSQL. That may or may not solve your problem, but it's important to know in any case :) Finally, windows 64 bit has freed itself from the "contiguous block" shackle that has bound it lo these many years. -Mark Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com -Original Message- From: Michael Muller [mailto:ad...@montaguema.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:34 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: (ot) Page Faults BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping up to 3 or 4? I know that at one point Windows couldn't address more than 2gb of ram, but I think that's no longer the case, though it is for CF (unless CF8 can now address more than 2gb?). Mik ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322675 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: (ot) Page Faults
Michael, It's not strictly true that "windows can't address more than 2gb". Windows cannot address more than 2gb of contiguous memory address space. That certainly affects the JVM to be sure because the JVM needs contiguous space to run. But you CAN make use of more than 2GB on a 32gb windows box. For example, you can put 32Gigs on it and run 24 instances of ColdFusion in multi-server mode - each with a contiguous block of memory (see what I mean). As for SQL server, windows and SQL work together hand in glove on memory and adding more will almost certainly help MSSQL. That may or may not solve your problem, but it's important to know in any case :) Finally, windows 64 bit has freed itself from the "contiguous block" shackle that has bound it lo these many years. -Mark Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com -Original Message- From: Michael Muller [mailto:ad...@montaguema.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:34 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: (ot) Page Faults BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping up to 3 or 4? I know that at one point Windows couldn't address more than 2gb of ram, but I think that's no longer the case, though it is for CF (unless CF8 can now address more than 2gb?). Mik ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322674 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: (ot) Page Faults
> BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping > up to 3 or 4? I know that at one point Windows couldn't > address more than 2gb of ram, but I think that's no longer > the case, though it is for CF (unless CF8 can now address > more than 2gb?). 32-bit Windows itself can address 4GB or RAM, but it cannot assign that much to a single process (limited to 2GB for applications iirc). 64-bit Windows can manage and address far more than that. -Justin ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322673 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: (ot) Page Faults
BTW, I have 2gb on the machine already. Is it worth bumping up to 3 or 4? I know that at one point Windows couldn't address more than 2gb of ram, but I think that's no longer the case, though it is for CF (unless CF8 can now address more than 2gb?). Mik ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322672 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: (ot) Page Faults
Mark, Thanks. That explained everything very well. I now know what to do. Mik >Typically if you see a high rate you need more memory or you need to fine >tune the memory and processes that are running. In the case of JRUN and >MSSQL on the same machine (not a great idea but common) - as well as SWOC >(the sequelink access driver - you mentioned MS Access), you need to specify >what amount of memory is going to jrun, what amount to mssql and then have a >reserve for kernel, swoc, and other operations. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322668 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: (ot) Page Faults
Michael, Page faults occur when the memory manager is asked for a register that is not in PHYSICAL memory (meaning it has been swapped to the disk. The word "fault" was an unfortunate choice by some original assembly programmer because it makes folks think something is wrong when it may or may not be wrong. When a chunk of memory is called for the memory manage figures out if it exists physically (in RAM) or virtually (pretending it is in RAM but really swapped to the disk). If the memory chunk is actually on the disk, the memory manager says "wait just a sec" and then goes to the disk to retrieve the info into physical memory before sending it back to the calling process. This "wait a sec" operation is a page fault. On a very busy server the memory manager might also have to figure out how to swap something else to disk to make room for the memory required by the fault. In general very high page fault rates mean that a good deal of what the system needs is in the pagefile instead of in physical memory. Note, I said "page fault rates". The actual number of page faults might be irrelevant, since a 1 time operation calling something from the pagefile can result in a very high number. What is more key is how often the number of page faults increments. If you see constant and steady activity it's possible you are swapping in and out in a steady stream and your disk is thrashing (leading to disk errors and things like corrupt master mdb files :) Typically if you see a high rate you need more memory or you need to fine tune the memory and processes that are running. In the case of JRUN and MSSQL on the same machine (not a great idea but common) - as well as SWOC (the sequelink access driver - you mentioned MS Access), you need to specify what amount of memory is going to jrun, what amount to mssql and then have a reserve for kernel, swoc, and other operations. So for example, on a 2 gig machine, you might set jrun to 756 megs heap (effectively about 900 megs) set mssql to run 512 megs and leave the rest for everything else. Of course, depending on the type of setup you would need to adjust those values - every system is different. Finally, if you run MSSQL on it's own box the best choice is usually to give it its head and let it tune it's own memory usage. But if you run it on a box with JRUN you need to specify a top limit - otherwise it will sometimes overrun the box. It's just a smarty pants and thinks it is always the most important software on the box (and really it should be - on it's own box). Hope this helps. Mark A. Kruger, CFG, MCSE (402) 408-3733 ext 105 www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com www.necfug.com -Original Message- From: Michael Muller [mailto:ad...@montaguema.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:41 AM To: cf-talk Subject: (ot) Page Faults I'm dealing w/ a corrupt SQL Server master DB right now, so all my SQL Server sites are offline at the moment (ugh) -- but that's not why I'm here. While trying to figure out what in heck was going on on my server I looked at Task Manager processes and sorted by various columns until I saw the Page Faults column... jqs.exe was at 1.5 billion and jrun.exe was at 715 million. sqlservr.exe was at 218 million. So, after rebooting and restarting these processes (and getting all my smaller Access sites back up -- since CF was hung on all the SQL Server requests) they were all set back to 0, and then immediately started climbing back up. jqs.exe is already over 300,000 and jrun is at 150,000. So... wth? Is this a hardware issue? >From Wiki Answers: "In computer storage technology, a page is a fixed length block of memory that is used as a unit of transfer between physical memory and external storage like a disk, and a page fault is an interrupt (or exception) to the software raised by the hardware, when a program accesses a page that is mapped in address space, but not loaded in physical memory." ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:322667 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
