RE: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
ColdFusion definatly doesn't need a $8k course. No one would pay for it, you would have to be crazy. Even for a new cutting edge technology, $8k is a lot If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. On another not who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawesi Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 1:08 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... Passion, enthuisasm events like this: http://www.sydneydevcamp.com/ Adobe needs to stop just collecting money from the 'ATM that keeps on giving' are share it around to reboot the community and therefore increase sales! Just a thought. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/cfaussie/-/beuwurQMw5MJ. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Coldfusion needs more of a move to the OSS servers, and people hanging with other OSS devs and telling them about Railo etc. I go to several different language groups where I live, if I say I use coldfusion they're stunned and the conversation ends there, if I say I use Railo its an open source Coldfusion server oh really? yeah there is more than one open source server plus one Adobe still makes fortunately the last 2 conferences I went to, over 70% of devs were using Railo commercially, the tide is turning fast On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Barry Beattie barry.beat...@gmail.comwrote: On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Not through their training partners. The problem with training guys is they want $1k per person per day Why should they earn $10k per day. Adobe should pay a trainer $1k per day and let heaps of people go for free. I tried to organise similar training once, pay the trainer a good daily rate and get them to train 10 people, but no trainer is greedy and wants a per person fee. Sorry no dice. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:10 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
I'll prefix this by saying I like Railo and think it has something to offer. However moving from a niche product ColdFusion to an even more niche product Railo certainly holds risk. I wonder how many people would use Railo if ColdFusion were free. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:17 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... Coldfusion needs more of a move to the OSS servers, and people hanging with other OSS devs and telling them about Railo etc. I go to several different language groups where I live, if I say I use coldfusion they're stunned and the conversation ends there, if I say I use Railo its an open source Coldfusion server oh really? yeah there is more than one open source server plus one Adobe still makes fortunately the last 2 conferences I went to, over 70% of devs were using Railo commercially, the tide is turning fast On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Barry Beattie barry.beat...@gmail.com wrote: On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
I hate to point this out but... Why would a student bet his future on a programming language that is such a small part of the global programming community? Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. Especially at that price? On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: I'll prefix this by saying I like Railo and think it has something to offer. ** ** However moving from a niche product ColdFusion to an even more niche product Railo certainly holds risk. ** ** I wonder how many people would use Railo if ColdFusion were free. ** ** Regards Dale Fraser ** ** http://dale.fraser.id.au ** ** *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *M@ Bourke *Sent:* Monday, 26 November 2012 6:17 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...** ** ** ** Coldfusion needs more of a move to the OSS servers, and people hanging with other OSS devs and telling them about Railo etc. I go to several different language groups where I live, if I say I use coldfusion they're stunned and the conversation ends there, if I say I use Railo its an open source Coldfusion server oh really? yeah there is more than one open source server plus one Adobe still makes ** ** fortunately the last 2 conferences I went to, over 70% of devs were using Railo commercially, the tide is turning fast On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Barry Beattie barry.beat...@gmail.com wrote: On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. ** ** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast http://www.2ddu.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Not sure sure which trainers would try to charge 1k per person per day, that's quite outrageous. However, Dale - to expect a good trainer to charge you 1k for a day and you can put 10 people in the room is quite unrealistic, too. Instructing is always a balance from a trainer's point of view: a) Opportunity cost (if one could earn 1k per day from development work, why would they offer a training for the same rate) b) Teach-yourself-out-of-work cost: Why would one train other developers to do their job for only a small amount of money more than doing development work themselves. Just to give you an idea, depending on the technology I personally charge between 1500-2000 per day for in-house training plus all travel and accommodation cost. That would usually cover a group of up to 6 people, if the client wants to put more people into the course there'd be additional charges. This model seems to work very well. If you happen to find that too expensive for quality tuition that'd be fair enough; we just won't get together then based on such a model :-) Please note that this all refers to inhouse-training only. Training booked and provided through a 3rd part training company with publicly held and bookable courses is a totally different game again. Cheers Kai Not through their training partners. The problem with training guys is they want $1k per person per day Why should they earn $10k per day. Adobe should pay a trainer $1k per day and let heaps of people go for free. I tried to organise similar training once, pay the trainer a good daily rate and get them to train 10 people, but no trainer is greedy and wants a per person fee. Sorry no dice. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:10 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do such a course. the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until recently. It happens. If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different story. now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training partners, surely to keep them onside? -- Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd ph: +64 4 889 3626 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 435 179 091 web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz Blog in Black: http://www.bloginblack.de 2DDU Podcast: http://www.2ddu.com/ Twitter: @AgentK -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Why would a student bet his future on a programming language that is such a small part of the global programming community? Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. Especially at that price? Are you talking about the Rails link floating around or about a potential CFML version of it? I'd say it's the wrong thing to do/offer/attend either way to be honest. Cheers Kai -- Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd ph: +64 4 889 3626 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 435 179 091 web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz Blog in Black: http://www.bloginblack.de 2DDU Podcast: http://www.2ddu.com/ Twitter: @AgentK -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Well fair enough, but still - would you book an 8 week Rails course with random promises as made on that site without knowing about who's behind it, who the teachers are etc...? :) The potential cfml version of it. I've head a lot of ruby people say that Rails is starting to show it's gray hairs (probably due it's monolithic stack), but Ruby has far and wide penetration and an enormous community (especially here in Melbourne it seems), so it still has a fair amount of momentum in it for sure. On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kai Koenig grmblz...@gmail.com wrote: Why would a student bet his future on a programming language that is such a small part of the global programming community? Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. Especially at that price? Are you talking about the Rails link floating around or about a potential CFML version of it? I'd say it's the wrong thing to do/offer/attend either way to be honest. Cheers Kai -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Oh that's a totally different problem! I just made the assumption that the training was good. Mark On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Kai Koenig grmblz...@gmail.com wrote: but still - would you book an 8 week Rails course with random promises as made on that site without knowing about who's behind it, who the teachers are etc...? :) -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast http://www.2ddu.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
I feel a 2ddu podcast brewing ;-) On 27 November 2012 12:45, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Oh that's a totally different problem! I just made the assumption that the training was good. Mark On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Kai Koenig grmblz...@gmail.com wrote: but still - would you book an 8 week Rails course with random promises as made on that site without knowing about who's behind it, who the teachers are etc...? :) -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast http://www.2ddu.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- *AJ Mercer* webonix:net strength=Industrial / http://webonix.net | webonix:org community=Open / http://webonix.org http://twitter.com/webonix Railo Community Manager http://www.getrailo.org/index.cfm/community/team/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of...
Might be ;) Mark On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:47 PM, AJ Mercer ajmer...@gmail.com wrote: I feel a 2ddu podcast brewing ;-) On 27 November 2012 12:45, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Oh that's a totally different problem! I just made the assumption that the training was good. Mark On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Kai Koenig grmblz...@gmail.com wrote: but still - would you book an 8 week Rails course with random promises as made on that site without knowing about who's behind it, who the teachers are etc...? :) -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast http://www.2ddu.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- *AJ Mercer* webonix:net strength=Industrial / http://webonix.net | webonix:org community=Open / http://webonix.org http://twitter.com/webonix Railo Community Managerhttp://www.getrailo.org/index.cfm/community/team/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast http://www.2ddu.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
