[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
You forgot accomodation, spending money needs a bit more padding as well. That and transfers between hotels etc. Oh and dinners oh and lunches... On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plane Tickets $2k pp = $8k Spending Money $2k Total = $10k Which means $5-$10k worth of coke, no wonder your body gets confused :) Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Thursday, 22 May 2008 5:03 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! Or for Disneyland packages: Come to Disneyland, spend 15hrs on a plane, pay around $15-20k in total for 4 people only to line up for 60mins per ride in 35 degree heat with little or no shade whilst drinking Coke (see below) that has enormous amounts of Corn Syrup which your body gets confused over and decides to store as fat - Believe in the Magic. (sorry, that was my exp anyway heheh). Anyway it's about promoting a experience, people want to hear the positives and the experience associated to the said products, it's the glass is always half full On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Mike, I will agree with you, there are so many people out there that want to get a website. But once they have it, they do not know how to keep their customers on it. Most people think that we have heard of their product, and tells us what they think we want to know. But the reality is that if I and yes I am going to say I on this occasion, can't decide or see what a product is within the first few minutes of looking I am never likely to return again. I will pick on microsoft on this occasion, the reason being is that even when you google and find the information that you are looking for. It directs you back to Microsoft (as it is a searched article from them) only to get hit with a page not found. So what about redirection, or sorry but that page has now moved to. Sorry I use microsoft as an example, because it is more prominent there. But it is an issue that I have an extreme pet hate with, the information on the internet is there. but one has to search through all the bullshit and stuff to find what we are looking for. I do not go to the Adobe website, or even Microsofts unless I am looking for a trial product that I already know about. Because forget about going there and finding out about a product in a hurry. I think the Usability in UAT's has gone out the window when these companys don't spend that time. On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use the term in full, so i found myself curious as to what SOA was, and was it some technology i needed to know about. It went on for weeks - SOA this and SOA that - inviting people to this SOA conference - the speakers and SOA experts speaking at the conference none of whom i'd ever heard of. I assumed it was something in IT but no idea what SOA was. So their entire marketing was wasted on me at least. Perhaps they figured 'if they dont know what SOA is,
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Is this another Microsoft is a monopolistic company therefore they are evil - sent via Windows owned PC rant? I have to admit, I basically ignored this thread, but the reference to a Windows owned PC cracked me up. Classic Freudian slip! Oh how I laughed, then I logged onto a Windows server, tried to figure out how to bulk rename a bunch of files by replacing a substring in the name, and cried ;-) Mark --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use the term in full, so i found myself curious as to what SOA was, and was it some technology i needed to know about. It went on for weeks - SOA this and SOA that - inviting people to this SOA conference - the speakers and SOA experts speaking at the conference none of whom i'd ever heard of. I assumed it was something in IT but no idea what SOA was. So their entire marketing was wasted on me at least. Perhaps they figured 'if they dont know what SOA is, they're not going to spend thousands to come to the conference. Probably right i suppose, but all it would have taken was a simple sentence saying what SOA is, or maybe just spelling out the term in full once. ONCE. Yes, I know that Google is my friend, and i could have gone looked it up, but why should i bother. It's THEIR product. THEY are the ones wanting me to spend my money on it. In fact if you do google SOA, you'll find lots of references to SOA and rarely find a single mention of Service Oriented Architecture. And a plain-language explanation of that term is even more rare. So this isnt just a Microsoft thing. I've often seen here on ColdFusion lists someone proudly anounce that the latest version of their application is released, but just assuming everyone knows what it is and what it does. I
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Or for Disneyland packages: Come to Disneyland, spend 15hrs on a plane, pay around $15-20k in total for 4 people only to line up for 60mins per ride in 35 degree heat with little or no shade whilst drinking Coke (see below) that has enormous amounts of Corn Syrup which your body gets confused over and decides to store as fat - Believe in the Magic. (sorry, that was my exp anyway heheh). Anyway it's about promoting a experience, people want to hear the positives and the experience associated to the said products, it's the glass is always half full On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use the term in full, so i found myself curious as to what SOA was, and was it some technology i needed to know about. It went on for weeks - SOA this and SOA that - inviting people to this SOA conference - the speakers and SOA experts speaking at the conference none of whom i'd ever heard of. I assumed it was something in IT but no idea what SOA was. So their entire marketing was wasted on me at least. Perhaps they figured 'if they dont know what SOA is, they're not going to spend thousands to come to the conference. Probably right i suppose, but all it would have taken was a simple sentence saying what SOA is, or maybe just spelling out the
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I dont tihnk you understood my point at all, Scott.I spent 23 years in sales, selling from individual sales on the phone (yes i admit it, i was one of the early developers of hte telemarketing industry - not my proudest contribution ot teh world!) up to being in charge of a team of major accounts sales people, including responsiblity for $30million worth of federal and state government sales. So I do understand about putting the most attractive view on things. But I also understand that if you surround your sales pitch with a lot of fog and gobbledegook, you wont sell a thing. Here's an interesting fact for you - at Lexmark, we had our brochures given to us by the marketing people. I never read one of them, and nor did any of the sales people, as far as I konw. Nor did any of my clients. We know this because there was a glaring error in one of them that was repeated on and on for years, and no one ever picked it up. How useful might those brochures have been if they had been written in words and phrases that people will read? To bring this back to our job as web developers - web sites suffer the same thing. Use flowery rubbish in teh text components, or make them simply lots of motherhood statements (e.g. ...provide users with a richer internet experience) and no one will read them. What is the point of that? But thatnks for your input. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:03 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or for Disneyland packages: Come to Disneyland, spend 15hrs on a plane, pay around $15-20k in total for 4 people only to line up for 60mins per ride in 35 degree heat with little or no shade whilst drinking Coke (see below) that has enormous amounts of Corn Syrup which your body gets confused over and decides to store as fat - Believe in the Magic. (sorry, that was my exp anyway heheh). Anyway it's about promoting a experience, people want to hear the positives and the experience associated to the said products, it's the glass is always half full On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
:) Sparkle was the code name for Blend for a start, Jolt is probably the codename you're searching for with Silverlight, so if you're going to trash mah product, do so with the right name ;) A lot of reasons go into why we have Flash at present, mostly they centre around the word legacy. Today Microsoft still uses Flash simply because we helped give birth Flash as well seeded it's actual growth via previous couplings of Flash in all Windows XP installs (that's a hefty machine to migrate across). Tomorrow, Silverlight will be our future, will it happen over night? Nope, but its where we are heading and if you want to keep score, that's fine, personally you'll be worth more to your customers on what type of solutions are being built and how they can suite their needs further instead of Microsoft is using Flash, Adobe is using Windows Vista, Microsoft is using PDF, Adobe is installing Flash Lite on Windows Mobile? scoring. As in the end that yields what? On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Seriously? Microsoft use Flash all over their sites, and there is a very good reason. It's because the one thing that Flash does that Silverlight can't is reach 98% of people. Sparkle has a lot of catching up to do before Microsoft can use it main stream. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Monday, 19 May 2008 3:40 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] br -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I cannot accept that, what you have written, but since we are looking at history, I look for answers as well, and for past history tells me so, VHS versus BetaMax, Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD. At the moment Flash is a good platform, and widely used, Browser wise, you can go to a customer and have some confidence that the customer will not turn around and say Flash is not going to work as not enough people have it. So tomorrow as you say let us speculate that Silverlight improves, but Flash improves more, it would still come down to the confidence in the customer primarily. (Of course if Flash turns nasty then even if the customer has confidence in the numbers the developer may want to look elsewhere. But I digress.) So what could change that confidence in the customer, regards numbers? Microsoft boots the Flash player out of future versions of Windows, whatever form that takes, in favour of Silverlight. Microsoft wouldn't do that would they? That wouldn't be a level playing field would it? They wouldn't make life harder for end users just to win this war would they? That wouldn't be monopolistic would it? What does history tell me? Anyway just my 0.02 cents worth. On May 20, 7:36 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) Sparkle was the code name for Blend for a start, Jolt is probably the codename you're searching for with Silverlight, so if you're going to trash mah product, do so with the right name ;) A lot of reasons go into why we have Flash at present, mostly they centre around the word legacy. Today Microsoft still uses Flash simply because we helped give birth Flash as well seeded it's actual growth via previous couplings of Flash in all Windows XP installs (that's a hefty machine to migrate across). Tomorrow, Silverlight will be our future, will it happen over night? Nope, but its where we are heading and if you want to keep score, that's fine, personally you'll be worth more to your customers on what type of solutions are being built and how they can suite their needs further instead of Microsoft is using Flash, Adobe is using Windows Vista, Microsoft is using PDF, Adobe is installing Flash Lite on Windows Mobile? scoring. As in the end that yields what? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
They wouldn't make life harder for end users just to win this war would they? I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. thoughts on adding code for plug-in detection (and prompt for download) is still secret squirrel stuff it seems: 50 New Silverlight 2 Beta 1 Screencasts http://www.mtaulty.com/SLVideos.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I have no idea what your point was :) Is this another Microsoft is a monopolistic company therefore they are evil - sent via Windows owned PC rant? Confidence in which customer? Do you think the average say YouTube punter sits there and ponders about Adobe's ethics, their history and overall what does this runtime install mean to me should I hit Install. I think the whole Flash vs Silverlight debate's are stupid, as usually it's used as a soapbox to denounce Microsoft which *shrug* each to their own. I like the company I work for as do billions of other folks around the world. We have 1.5million+ downloads a day of the runtime. If there were no confidence in the product, it would decrease, not increase? On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cannot accept that, what you have written, but since we are looking at history, I look for answers as well, and for past history tells me so, VHS versus BetaMax, Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD. At the moment Flash is a good platform, and widely used, Browser wise, you can go to a customer and have some confidence that the customer will not turn around and say Flash is not going to work as not enough people have it. So tomorrow as you say let us speculate that Silverlight improves, but Flash improves more, it would still come down to the confidence in the customer primarily. (Of course if Flash turns nasty then even if the customer has confidence in the numbers the developer may want to look elsewhere. But I digress.) So what could change that confidence in the customer, regards numbers? Microsoft boots the Flash player out of future versions of Windows, whatever form that takes, in favour of Silverlight. Microsoft wouldn't do that would they? That wouldn't be a level playing field would it? They wouldn't make life harder for end users just to win this war would they? That wouldn't be monopolistic would it? What does history tell me? Anyway just my 0.02 cents worth. On May 20, 7:36 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) Sparkle was the code name for Blend for a start, Jolt is probably the codename you're searching for with Silverlight, so if you're going to trash mah product, do so with the right name ;) A lot of reasons go into why we have Flash at present, mostly they centre around the word legacy. Today Microsoft still uses Flash simply because we helped give birth Flash as well seeded it's actual growth via previous couplings of Flash in all Windows XP installs (that's a hefty machine to migrate across). Tomorrow, Silverlight will be our future, will it happen over night? Nope, but its where we are heading and if you want to keep score, that's fine, personally you'll be worth more to your customers on what type of solutions are being built and how they can suite their needs further instead of Microsoft is using Flash, Adobe is using Windows Vista, Microsoft is using PDF, Adobe is installing Flash Lite on Windows Mobile? scoring. As in the end that yields what? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use the term in full, so i found myself curious as to what SOA was, and was it some technology i needed to know about. It went on for weeks - SOA this and SOA that - inviting people to this SOA conference - the speakers and SOA experts speaking at the conference none of whom i'd ever heard of. I assumed it was something in IT but no idea what SOA was. So their entire marketing was wasted on me at least. Perhaps they figured 'if they dont know what SOA is, they're not going to spend thousands to come to the conference. Probably right i suppose, but all it would have taken was a simple sentence saying what SOA is, or maybe just spelling out the term in full once. ONCE. Yes, I know that Google is my friend, and i could have gone looked it up, but why should i bother. It's THEIR product. THEY are the ones wanting me to spend my money on it. In fact if you do google SOA, you'll find lots of references to SOA and rarely find a single mention of Service Oriented Architecture. And a plain-language explanation of that term is even more rare. So this isnt just a Microsoft thing. I've often seen here on ColdFusion lists someone proudly anounce that the latest version of their application is released, but just assuming everyone knows what it is and what it does. I find myself frequently asking myself, do I care? Is that something I should know about? More often than not, i say 'no - cant be bothered right now. And all it would have taken is a simple for those that havent seen it yet, WidgetSoft is a small, application that gets you coffee when you need it, and delivers it to you desk 15 seconds before you think of the idea. Crisp, plain language that is free of marketing gobbldegook and motherhood statements. Phrases like gives users a richer experience should be banned, because every product since DOS has claimed that and it's meaningless. That's all I'm saying. And I mentioned
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Dale, Since Sparkle (codenamed) was given a name, I have been following that product with much interest. And if I make a comparison of the IDE to Flex, Adobe has more ctaching up to do than Microsoft does. I blogged about Flex last year, and I am surpirsed that the IDE is still fairly useless as an IDE goes. And considering that comparision was a beta of Blend (Sparkle), it had more features and use in the IDE than Flex 3 will ever have. In my opinion Flex IDE is more behind that you think it is. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Seriously? Microsoft use Flash all over their sites, and there is a very good reason. It's because the one thing that Flash does that Silverlight can't is reach 98% of people. Sparkle has a lot of catching up to do before Microsoft can use it main stream. Regards Dale Fraser From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 3:40 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] br -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I've never been one of the brigade that takes a swipe at Microsoft simply because it's Microsoft - the company that shapes our world as much as any other on the planet. But I sure got frustrated with their bloody web site today - and there's a lesson or two for all of us who have responsiblities to advise our clients on managing their web sites. .. I had a client call me and ask if he should install this Silverlight thing the MS site wanted him to install. I said I knew what it was and didnt think there would be any reason why not but since he'd asked me, i went and took a look at the site for myself. Click on the little Silverlight icon on the home page - I thought that would take me to where i could see what it's about..The 'Install popup's design seemed to give only one option - install Silverlight. The no thanks is almost invisible in my browser. I navigated about and eventually got to the SIlverlight page, to see what i could point my client to so he'd know what it does.What is silverlight?Try to find out. YOU CANT! When you go the SIlverlight page, the first thing (and presumably the most important in Microsoft's view) is a large page of unreadable legal gobbldegook called the Privacy Policy. After studying that policy carefully (yeah right!) I clicked on Overview to see the page i could point my client to. Instead of giving me an overview, it gives me an Install button again. Oh wait, there's another Overview link. Click on it and there's a whole host of alleged benefits of SIlverlight - not one of which tells me anything. They're all motherhood statements that make Silverlight sound exactly like everything between Windows3.1 and SQLServer2008. What a weak selling effort.Lots of effort put into the graphics of this section but about 30 seconds into the words, And nary a word that actually explains what Silverlight does in terms a novice might understand. And not one reason .why the customer should go ahead and download it. If you dont know anything about Silverlight, and you're one of the great many people like most of my family and clients, there's nothing understandable on the Microsoft site about SIlverlight. The argument boils down to dont be a cry-baby - go ahead and download it we're Microsoft - how bad can it be for you?? This whole thing is common in Microsoft's web site.Just try to find out, for example, what's actually in the XPPro Service Pack 3. There's bug fixes and security updates, and some feature improvements but there's no link anywhere to find out what those feature improvements might be. Apparently Microsoft doesnt think we deserve to know what they are. We're expected to manage our systems, but just blindly install anything Microsoft says we should. The point of all this is not to bash Microsoft, because they're far from alone in this. But we all have an obligation to our own site owners to make sure we dont fall inlto the same mistake. We must always remember that while we are intimately involved with whatever we are selling or promoting on our web site, many of our site visitors arent. For example, for every piece of software, the site should have aomething that answers the queston 'WHAT THE HELL IS IT?? - WHY DO I WANT IT?? [/rant] Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Scott, Seriously? Microsoft use Flash all over their sites, and there is a very good reason. It's because the one thing that Flash does that Silverlight can't is reach 98% of people. Sparkle has a lot of catching up to do before Microsoft can use it main stream. Regards Dale Fraser From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 3:40 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/ Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] br --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
