RE: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-21 Thread Dale Fraser
Previously the output never happened and the location did

 

Now due to the flush

 

The content is happening and not the location

 

You are correct its one or the other.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Adam Cameron
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 7:36 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

I don't know how this ever worked. One cannot have both content and a
redirect in a response. cflocation sets the HTTP status header to do a
302 redirect, but for that to work, one must've have yet sent any content
down to the browser. Because the first thing that gets sent in a response
are the headers. Once the response has started being sent to the browser one
cannot change the HTTP status code, so one cannot use cflocation to
redirect.

 

The only difference perhaps is that CF9 didn't used to send any content down
to the browser until the end of the request or a cfflush is encountered,
but maybe CF10 starts spooling the response down to the browser as soon as
it has [some amount] of content there?

 

Either way, the code is wrong, and relies on a vagary of CF's behaviour to
work, rather than it working by design.

 

-- 

Adam



On Wednesday, 20 November 2013 07:08:18 UTC, Mark Picker wrote:

Hi,

 

I did post this to stackoverflow a month or so ago
(http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19416810/cflocation-no-longer-working-in
-cf10) but didn't end up with any follow up answers after working out the
real source of the problem.  Hoping someone on here has some ideas.

 

I have a multi-step process that runs overnight. The process is made up of
about 10 files that chain together using cflocation (only follows cflocation
if no errors were detected).  This was working fine until I moved from CF9
to CF10.  Code works fine until it hits cflocation tag.  Has anyone seen an
issue with cflocation not working in CF10 vs. CF9?

 

I've been able to reproduce this problem with 2 files:

 

index.cfm

 

h1Testing cflocation/h1

 

cfloop index=i from=1 to=7000 !--- For me it stops working once the
loop goes beyond 6808 rows ---

row cfoutput#i#/cfoutput:
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789abcd
efghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789br/

/cfloop

 

pNow loading resultpage via cflocation/p

cflocation url=resultpage.cfm addtoken=false

 

 

resultpage.cfm

 

h1Made it!/h1

pReload the a href=index.cfmfirst page/a/p

 

In my testing I found that if I looped 6808 times it works but 6809 times
fails. With 7000 records we are only talking about a 36 KB file..any clues
why this is failing only in CF10?

 

Cheers

Mark

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Andrew Scott
Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know
if there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
not.



Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411



On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.auwrote:

 @Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.

 @Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for
 only a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream
 source systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).
 Traditionally each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of
 months before we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the
 output into a log file which is sent in an email after the process has
 finished.  Certainly could be rewritten to only display output when
 manually run but it's now a question of available time to change and test
 vs. making it work as is until it's replaced.  But I do know where your
 coming from, if doing this again from scratch I certainly would do it
 differently.

 @Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
 have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
 that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
 applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that
 when I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a
 little confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to
 work though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
 certainly does let it run correctly.

 I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of
 output to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!

 Cheers
 Mark


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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Zac Spitzer
have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?


On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote:

 Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know
 if there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
 not.



 Regards,
 Andrew Scott
 WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
 Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411



 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker 
 mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.auwrote:

 @Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.

 @Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for
 only a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream
 source systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).
 Traditionally each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of
 months before we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the
 output into a log file which is sent in an email after the process has
 finished.  Certainly could be rewritten to only display output when
 manually run but it's now a question of available time to change and test
 vs. making it work as is until it's replaced.  But I do know where your
 coming from, if doing this again from scratch I certainly would do it
 differently.

 @Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
 have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
 that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
 applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that
 when I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a
 little confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to
 work though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
 certainly does let it run correctly.

 I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of
 output to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!

 Cheers
 Mark


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+61 405 847 168

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Dale Fraser
Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Zac Spitzer
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
To: CFAussie
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
mailto:andr...@andyscott.id.au  wrote:

Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know if
there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
not.

 

 




Regards,

Andrew Scott

WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au http://www.andyscott.id.au /

Google+:   http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411

 

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
mailto:mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au  wrote:

@Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.

 

@Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for only
a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream source
systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).  Traditionally
each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of months before
we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the output into a log
file which is sent in an email after the process has finished.  Certainly
could be rewritten to only display output when manually run but it's now a
question of available time to change and test vs. making it work as is until
it's replaced.  But I do know where your coming from, if doing this again
from scratch I certainly would do it differently.

 

@Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that when
I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a little
confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to work
though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
certainly does let it run correctly.

 

I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of output
to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!

 

Cheers

Mark

 

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+61 405 847 168

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Zac Spitzer
but then it should throw an error? otherwise it's an ugly silent fail


On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote:

 Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.



 Regards

 Dale Fraser



 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Zac Spitzer
 *Sent:* Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
 *To:* CFAussie
 *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9



 have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?



 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
 wrote:

 Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know
 if there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
 not.






 Regards,

 Andrew Scott

 WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/

 Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411





 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
 wrote:

 @Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.



 @Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for
 only a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream
 source systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).
 Traditionally each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of
 months before we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the
 output into a log file which is sent in an email after the process has
 finished.  Certainly could be rewritten to only display output when
 manually run but it's now a question of available time to change and test
 vs. making it work as is until it's replaced.  But I do know where your
 coming from, if doing this again from scratch I certainly would do it
 differently.



 @Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
 have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
 that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
 applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that
 when I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a
 little confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to
 work though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
 certainly does let it run correctly.



 I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of
 output to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!



 Cheers

 Mark



 --
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+61 405 847 168

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Dale Fraser
There is no error, because a cfflush will cause the cflocation header to be
reset thus it just never happens.

 

The setting is new in cf10, and while different, not a bug.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrew Scott
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 4:06 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

Dale, is this a new feature in ColdFusion 10? And what error does it throw
if it exceeds this buffer?




Regards,

Andrew Scott

WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au http://www.andyscott.id.au /

Google+:   http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411

 

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au
mailto:d...@fraser.id.au  wrote:

Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Zac Spitzer
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
To: CFAussie
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
mailto:andr...@andyscott.id.au  wrote:

Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know if
there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
not.

 

 




Regards,

Andrew Scott

WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au http://www.andyscott.id.au /

Google+:   http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411

 

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
mailto:mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au  wrote:

@Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.

 

@Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for only
a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream source
systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).  Traditionally
each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of months before
we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the output into a log
file which is sent in an email after the process has finished.  Certainly
could be rewritten to only display output when manually run but it's now a
question of available time to change and test vs. making it work as is until
it's replaced.  But I do know where your coming from, if doing this again
from scratch I certainly would do it differently.

 

@Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that when
I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a little
confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to work
though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
certainly does let it run correctly.

 

I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of output
to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!

 

Cheers

Mark

 

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+61 405 847 168 tel:%2B61%20405%20847%20168 

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Andrew Scott
Dale, I am not disputing that it is a bug or not. This is not something I
have any knowledge on, and can't find the setting in ColdFusion 9. But I am
hoping to learn more about this setting and what makes this change
different to not being in ColdFusion 9.

Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411



On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote:

 There is no error, because a cfflush will cause the cflocation header to
 be reset thus it just never happens.



 The setting is new in cf10, and while different, not a bug.



 Regards

 Dale Fraser



 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Andrew Scott
 *Sent:* Thursday, 21 November 2013 4:06 PM
 *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com

 *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9



 Dale, is this a new feature in ColdFusion 10? And what error does it throw
 if it exceeds this buffer?


 Regards,

 Andrew Scott

 WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/

 Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411





 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote:

 Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.



 Regards

 Dale Fraser



 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Zac Spitzer
 *Sent:* Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
 *To:* CFAussie
 *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9



 have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?



 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
 wrote:

 Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know
 if there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
 not.






 Regards,

 Andrew Scott

 WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/

 Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411





 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
 wrote:

 @Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.



 @Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for
 only a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream
 source systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).
 Traditionally each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of
 months before we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the
 output into a log file which is sent in an email after the process has
 finished.  Certainly could be rewritten to only display output when
 manually run but it's now a question of available time to change and test
 vs. making it work as is until it's replaced.  But I do know where your
 coming from, if doing this again from scratch I certainly would do it
 differently.



 @Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
 have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
 that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
 applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that
 when I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a
 little confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to
 work though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
 certainly does let it run correctly.



 I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of
 output to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!



 Cheers

 Mark



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 +61 405 847 168

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Dale Fraser
No,

 

It's the same as this, no error, nothing happens. The flush kills the
location

 

cfflush /

cflocation url=page2.cfm addtoken=false

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Zac Spitzer
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 4:05 PM
To: CFAussie
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

but then it should throw an error? otherwise it's an ugly silent fail

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au
mailto:d...@fraser.id.au  wrote:

Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

 

From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Zac Spitzer
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
To: CFAussie
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

 

have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
mailto:andr...@andyscott.id.au  wrote:

Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know if
there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
not.

 

 




Regards,

Andrew Scott

WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au http://www.andyscott.id.au /

Google+:   http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411
http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411

 

 

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
mailto:mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au  wrote:

@Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.

 

@Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for only
a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream source
systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).  Traditionally
each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of months before
we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the output into a log
file which is sent in an email after the process has finished.  Certainly
could be rewritten to only display output when manually run but it's now a
question of available time to change and test vs. making it work as is until
it's replaced.  But I do know where your coming from, if doing this again
from scratch I certainly would do it differently.

 

@Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that when
I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a little
confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to work
though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
certainly does let it run correctly.

 

I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of output
to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!

 

Cheers

Mark

 

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+61 405 847 168 tel:%2B61%20405%20847%20168 

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Mark Picker
I don't really have the time but I am a bit conflicted with patching over 
the issue vs. proper fix.  The change to the source systems has already 
been delayed once so it's very possible it will be delayed again and I'll 
need to keep doing it this way for sometime yet (a.k.a usual story anytime 
something is only a temp solution :)).  Looking at the code now with the 
view to make a more permanent fix.  I guess I've got 8 hours before I 
need to head off to the Xbox One launch at midnight :)

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Andrew Scott
Dale, is this a new feature in ColdFusion 10? And what error does it throw
if it exceeds this buffer?

Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411



On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote:

 Its not a bug, its doing what it is supposed to do based on that setting.



 Regards

 Dale Fraser



 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Zac Spitzer
 *Sent:* Thursday, 21 November 2013 3:55 PM
 *To:* CFAussie
 *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9



 have you filed a bug in the adobe bug base?



 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au
 wrote:

 Mark, no problem. Wasn't sure if you had the time or not, and didn't know
 if there was a way to just write a quick conditional statement around it or
 not.






 Regards,

 Andrew Scott

 WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/

 Google+:  http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411





 On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Picker mark.pic...@det.nsw.edu.au
 wrote:

 @Zac: all but the one that just came out this month.



 @Andrew:  this is a legacy process which I'm trying to keep running for
 only a couple of months until the whole lot will be rewritten (upstream
 source systems are being replaced so the whole process will change).
 Traditionally each step was run manually and was only automated a couple of
 months before we changed to CF10.  The scheduled task is storing all the
 output into a log file which is sent in an email after the process has
 finished.  Certainly could be rewritten to only display output when
 manually run but it's now a question of available time to change and test
 vs. making it work as is until it's replaced.  But I do know where your
 coming from, if doing this again from scratch I certainly would do it
 differently.



 @Dale: Thank you! and damn it yet again.  One day I will remember that I
 have a crap memory.  As soon as I saw your reply I remembered reading about
 that option a month or so ago but at the time I was focused on other
 applications and problems in PHP.  I made a mental note to look at that
 when I was back in the office and then completely forgot about it.  I am a
 little confused why the 1024 KB limit isn't enough for the test case to
 work though.  The test case should be less than 1024KB but upping the limit
 certainly does let it run correctly.



 I think I'll try up the limit but also look at limiting the amount of
 output to only what I really need.  Thank you everyone!



 Cheers

 Mark



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 +61 405 847 168

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cflocation fails in CF10 but fine in CF9

2013-11-20 Thread Mark Picker
Sorry for the disjointed reply.  I hadn't seen that the conversation had 
continued about bug vs. feature

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