Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Vasilij Schneidermann]

Hello folks,

I haven't posted to this list before as I'm more of an IRC person, but
have been notified that I might want to engage this time ;)

> Oh, as an aside, it would be fantastic to have IUP be just as easy to
> install on Linux/Unix. Sadly this is not the case. I have not surveyed
> the GUI toolkit world recently. Is there a better alternative
> available for Chicken now?

I happen to be currently writing my thesis on CHICKEN or more
specifically, GUI programming approaches, the current state of GUI
programming with CHICKEN and the evaluation of interesting looking
libraries to write eggs for.  In the course of this, I wrote and
published three eggs, kiwi[1], nuklear[2] and libui[3].

libui is the closest thing to IUP.  It supports Windows (Win32), OS X
(Cocoa) and Linux/Unix (GTK) desktops, provided they're up-to-date.
Unlike IUP, it's relatively simple to build as it only requires CMake as
prerequisite.  My issues with it so far are that it's still an immature
project and that the API isn't perfect, but that shouldn't be as
noticable with the egg.

As I'm a Linux user, I haven't tested whether any of the eggs could be
made to work with Windows or OS X.  While I'm fairly sure that I could
get a Windows VM going, I'm unfamiliar with the process of using tools
originating from the Linux world as there appear to be several
incompatible ways of doing this and CHICKEN itself is no exception.  I
have no idea about the state of OS X virtualization and getting a Mac
Mini for this purpose doesn't exactly sound attractive...

Any help from more knowledgeable people on this topic is appreciated!

Cheers
Vasilij

[1]: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/kiwi
[2]: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/nuklear
[3]: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/libui

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[Chicken-users] Generating C

[Norman Gray]

Greetings

I'm trying (still) to generate C from Chicken code, with the intention 
of compiling that on a machine without a Chicken install.  This is, for 
my purposes, the principal reason why I've been experimenting with 
Chicken.


I must say, it's an uphill struggle.  I've managed to get a toy program 
to work, but not a non-trivial program with assorted dependencies.


I'm quite close to managing it, but can't compile one of my own modules. 
 I have a module db.scm which starts


%  head -16 ../../db.scm
(module db
(with-connection-to
 with-connection-to*
 query/map
 query/for-each
 query/single)

  (import scheme chicken)
  (use posix
   extras
   (prefix sqlite3 sql:))
  (use util) ; my module, in ../../util.scm

(define current-connection*
  (make-parameter #f))

All the dependencies are, I think, assembled and compiled to .c and 
.import.scm files, but...


% make
echo '((files "../../util.scm" "util.setup"))' >util.meta
echo '(standard-extension "util")' >util.setup
"/Data/tools/chicken-4.11.0/bin/csc" -t -unit util -optimize-level 3 
-include-path ../.. -emit-all-import-libraries -output-file util.c 
../../util.scm
"/Data/tools/chicken-4.11.0/bin/csc" -t -unit db -optimize-level 3 
-include-path ../.. -emit-all-import-libraries -output-file db.c 
../../db.scm


Warning: extension `sqlite3' is currently not installed

Warning: imported identifier doesn't exist in module chicken: 
dynamic-wind


Warning: extension `util' is currently not installed
[panic] nursery is too small - try higher setting using the `-:s' option 
- execution terminated



Error: shell command terminated with non-zero exit status 256: 
'/Data/tools/chicken-4.11.0/bin/chicken' '../../db.scm' -output-file 
'db.c' -unit db -optimize-level 3 -include-path ../.. 
-emit-all-import-libraries

make: *** [db.c] Error 1

I don't know what the problem is with dynamic-wind, but it doesn't seem 
to matter.  If I try


'/Data/tools/chicken-4.11.0/bin/chicken' -:s1000  '../../db.scm' 
-output-file 'db.c' -unit db -optimize-level 3 -include-path ../.. 
-emit-all-import-libraries


...I get a core dump; and if I try with -:s100 I get the same error 
message.  Given the error message, and runtime.c, it would appear that a 
lack of stack size is not the real problem.  This is somewhat similar to 
the error described in , which 
went away when I created trivial extension files .meta/.setup.  I have 
generated util.meta and util.setup above.


The eggs and other dependencies of the code are at this stage compiled 
to *.c and *.import.scm files.


I have no idea how to proceed from here.  Can anyone shed any light?



The documentation at 
 is perhaps a 
trifle laconic, and saying 'This is naturally rather simplistic' doesn't 
really fill in the blanks.


One useful thing to mention on that page would be that when compiling 
modules, '-t -unit ' is necessary, otherwise we get 
(intelligible in eventual retrospect) duplicate symbols when compiling.  
Inspection of c-backend.scm solved that particular puzzle.


The build system, based on Makefile.* and *.make files, seems quite 
narrowly targeted for the case of building Chicken itself.  The 
experiments I've tried suggest that it can be adapted to building an 
assembly of .c files, when I get them, but it needs a bit of hacking for 
that case, and feels a bit wild-west.  Is that really the recommended 
technique?


It would be seriously useful if chicken-install, for example, could work 
out the recursive set of dependencies for a particular source file, and 
print them in a reusable way.  I wrote quite a lot of a tool to do this, 
and to generate a Makefile which would assemble a kit and prepare to 
build it.  However it started to acquire more and more special cases, 
and it became clear that it could never really work reliably, given the 
freedom of action afforded to the contents of .setup.  Given that 
chicken-install already has to deal with this complication, would it be 
reasonable for it to gain an option to emit the dependencies, ideally in 
the form of a Makefile?


I still have the impression that the ability to generate distributable C 
is a key feature of Chicken (is this true?), which makes it odd that 
this is documented only in a few dozen lines at the bottom of the 'Using 
the compiler' page, and odd that an apparently simple build -- I'm not 
doing anything exotic -- is quite this difficult, and requires quite so 
much use of the source (Luke).  Have I (as happens so often) got the 
wrong end of the stick?


Thanks for any advice.

Best wishes,

Norman


--
Norman Gray  :  https://nxg.me.uk
SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK

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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Matt Welland]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:52 AM, John Cowan  wrote:

> Dan Leslie scripsit:
>
> > It reads to me like Chicken needs an automated builder for the Windows
> > package.
>
> It's not very clear how beneficial this is, since in order to use the
> compiler, you'll need gcc and gmake anyway.  (If you just want a Scheme
> interpreter, there are probably better choices than Chicken, though it
> does have some nice eggs.)
>

To use the chicken-iup installer you first install mingw. Two straight
forward, easy installs; mingw and chicken-iup, give you:

 - chicken-scheme with a bunch of pre-installed eggs including the IUP gui,
sql-de-lite and so forth.
 - start csi from an icon
 - ability to compile to executable.

For someone interested in learning Chicken or in creating cross platform
applications using scheme I think chicken-iup or a similar installer is a
godsend. It is not all that easy to install chicken and IUP is a real pain
to install. IUP is the only comprehensive, modern looking, seamless,
cross-platform gui toolkit for chicken that I know of. In my opinion
providing a super-low barrier to entry installer for chicken scheme makes
it far more attractive to folks wanting to explore and try it. Most of the
developers and users seem to be super-gurus who think nothing of the
hacking it takes to get an install going. For us regular folk however this
barrier can be a show stopper. I guess if the sentiment is that beginners
are a pain for the community then you could make a solid argument for NOT
making it too easy to install chicken :)

Oh, as an aside, it would be fantastic to have IUP be just as easy to
install on Linux/Unix. Sadly this is not the case. I have not surveyed the
GUI toolkit world recently. Is there a better alternative available for
Chicken now?



>
> --
> John Cowan  http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org
> Thor Heyerdahl recounts his attempt to prove Rudyard Kipling's theory
> that the mongoose first came to India on a raft from Polynesia.
> --blurb for Rikki-Kon-Tiki-Tavi
>
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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[John Cowan]

Dan Leslie scripsit:

> The Haskell Platform is batteries-included; it ships with gcc, binutils,
> bash et al. IIRC, you can opt not to install those if you wish, but
> they install by default.

I guess we could do that, but it would be a pain in the ass to keep up
to date.

> Alternatively, people can now install Chicken through the Bash package
> that Microsoft ships in the Windows store. It's just Ubuntu without
> the kernel.

Sure.  But then it's not _Windows_ Chicken any more.  Interaction between
pseudo-Ubuntu and Win32 is very limited, basically just the shared file
system and TCP/IP sockets.

-- 
John Cowan  http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org
Linguistics is arguably the most hotly contested property in the academic
realm. It is soaked with the blood of poets, theologians, philosophers,
philologists, psychologists, biologists and neurologists, along with
whatever blood can be got out of grammarians. - Russ Rymer

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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Dan Leslie]

The Haskell Platform is batteries-included; it ships with gcc, binutils, bash 
et al. IIRC, you can opt not to install those if you wish, but they install by 
default.

Alternatively, people can now install Chicken through the Bash package that 
Microsoft ships in the Windows store. It's just Ubuntu without the kernel.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  Original Message  
From: John Cowan
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Dan Leslie
Cc: Matt Welland; Oleg Kolosov; chicken-users; C K Kashyap
Subject: Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

Dan Leslie scripsit:

> It reads to me like Chicken needs an automated builder for the Windows
> package.

It's not very clear how beneficial this is, since in order to use the
compiler, you'll need gcc and gmake anyway. (If you just want a Scheme
interpreter, there are probably better choices than Chicken, though it
does have some nice eggs.)

-- 
John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan co...@ccil.org
Thor Heyerdahl recounts his attempt to prove Rudyard Kipling's theory
that the mongoose first came to India on a raft from Polynesia.
--blurb for Rikki-Kon-Tiki-Tavi

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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Matt Welland]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:26 AM, C K Kashyap  wrote:

> Hi Matt,
> I can volunteer some cycles - I really would like to be able to use
> chicken on windows.
> Regards,
> Kashyap
>

Thanks Kashyap! I'll contact you off-list. If you wish you can start by
browsing the info and scripts/Makefile etc. at
https://www.kiatoa.com/fossils/chicken-iup



>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Matt Welland 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd love to bring the chicken-iup installer up to date but I don't have
>> the time to do it on my own. If anyone has the bandwidth and interest to
>> help please let me know. I think the installer is far and above the easiest
>> way to get going on Windows.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Oleg Kolosov  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 08 Jul 2016, at 00:48, C K Kashyap  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I am very new to Chicken. I've been able to get started with it on my
>>> mac using homebrew. I am not sure about how to get started on windows
>>> though.
>>> >
>>> > What's a good way to install chicken on windows? The binary installer
>>> links shown on the web page seems dated.
>>> >
>>> > Can I build chicken using VC?
>>> >
>>> > Is this the right place to download mingw64 -
>>> http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php/start
>>> > I could not find a download link.
>>> >
>>> > I'd appreciate your help very much.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Kashyap
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Chicken-users mailing list
>>> > Chicken-users@nongnu.org
>>> > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> The simplest way is to install pre-packaged CHICKEN, see
>>> https://wiki.call-cc.org/platforms#microsoft-windows-
>>>
>>> I guess the available binary packages are dated because in 4.10 CHICKEN
>>> changed ABI and build requires bootstrapping which is a pain and nobody
>>> bothered because Windows is not popular here.
>>>
>>> No, you can't build it using VC either. A build system requires GNU make
>>> and code has some GCC'isms and UNIX'isms. Core can be fixed with a few
>>> relatively trivial patches but supporting utilities (chicken-install and
>>> friends) can not, so you wont be able to install eggs. I had the patches in
>>> my CMake based CHICKEN fork but abandoned it due to lack of public interest.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards, Oleg
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Chicken-users mailing list
>>> Chicken-users@nongnu.org
>>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[C K Kashyap]

Hi Matt,
I can volunteer some cycles - I really would like to be able to use chicken
on windows.
Regards,
Kashyap

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Matt Welland  wrote:

> I'd love to bring the chicken-iup installer up to date but I don't have
> the time to do it on my own. If anyone has the bandwidth and interest to
> help please let me know. I think the installer is far and above the easiest
> way to get going on Windows.
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Oleg Kolosov  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On 08 Jul 2016, at 00:48, C K Kashyap  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I am very new to Chicken. I've been able to get started with it on my
>> mac using homebrew. I am not sure about how to get started on windows
>> though.
>> >
>> > What's a good way to install chicken on windows? The binary installer
>> links shown on the web page seems dated.
>> >
>> > Can I build chicken using VC?
>> >
>> > Is this the right place to download mingw64 -
>> http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php/start
>> > I could not find a download link.
>> >
>> > I'd appreciate your help very much.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Kashyap
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Chicken-users mailing list
>> > Chicken-users@nongnu.org
>> > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> The simplest way is to install pre-packaged CHICKEN, see
>> https://wiki.call-cc.org/platforms#microsoft-windows-
>>
>> I guess the available binary packages are dated because in 4.10 CHICKEN
>> changed ABI and build requires bootstrapping which is a pain and nobody
>> bothered because Windows is not popular here.
>>
>> No, you can't build it using VC either. A build system requires GNU make
>> and code has some GCC'isms and UNIX'isms. Core can be fixed with a few
>> relatively trivial patches but supporting utilities (chicken-install and
>> friends) can not, so you wont be able to install eggs. I had the patches in
>> my CMake based CHICKEN fork but abandoned it due to lack of public interest.
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Oleg
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Chicken-users@nongnu.org
>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[John Cowan]

Dan Leslie scripsit:

> It reads to me like Chicken needs an automated builder for the Windows
> package.

It's not very clear how beneficial this is, since in order to use the
compiler, you'll need gcc and gmake anyway.  (If you just want a Scheme
interpreter, there are probably better choices than Chicken, though it
does have some nice eggs.)

-- 
John Cowan  http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org
Thor Heyerdahl recounts his attempt to prove Rudyard Kipling's theory
that the mongoose first came to India on a raft from Polynesia.
--blurb for Rikki-Kon-Tiki-Tavi

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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Dan Leslie]

  It reads to me like Chicken needs an automated builder for the Windows package.Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.From: Matt WellandSent: Friday, July 8, 2016 9:18 AMTo: Oleg KolosovCc: chicken-users; C K KashyapSubject: Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windowsI'd love to bring the chicken-iup installer up to date but I don't have the time to do it on my own. If anyone has the bandwidth and interest to help please let me know. I think the installer is far and above the easiest way to get going on Windows.On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Oleg Kolosov  wrote:
> On 08 Jul 2016, at 00:48, C K Kashyap  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am very new to Chicken. I've been able to get started with it on my mac using homebrew. I am not sure about how to get started on windows though.
>
> What's a good way to install chicken on windows? The binary installer links shown on the web page seems dated.
>
> Can I build chicken using VC?
>
> Is this the right place to download mingw64 - http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php/start
> I could not find a download link.
>
> I'd appreciate your help very much.
>
> Regards,
> Kashyap
>
> ___
> Chicken-users mailing list
> Chicken-users@nongnu.org
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users

Hi!

The simplest way is to install pre-packaged CHICKEN, see https://wiki.call-cc.org/platforms#microsoft-windows-

I guess the available binary packages are dated because in 4.10 CHICKEN changed ABI and build requires bootstrapping which is a pain and nobody bothered because Windows is not popular here.

No, you can't build it using VC either. A build system requires GNU make and code has some GCC'isms and UNIX'isms. Core can be fixed with a few relatively trivial patches but supporting utilities (chicken-install and friends) can not, so you wont be able to install eggs. I had the patches in my CMake based CHICKEN fork but abandoned it due to lack of public interest.

--
Regards, Oleg


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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Matt Welland]

I'd love to bring the chicken-iup installer up to date but I don't have the
time to do it on my own. If anyone has the bandwidth and interest to help
please let me know. I think the installer is far and above the easiest way
to get going on Windows.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Oleg Kolosov  wrote:

>
> > On 08 Jul 2016, at 00:48, C K Kashyap  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am very new to Chicken. I've been able to get started with it on my
> mac using homebrew. I am not sure about how to get started on windows
> though.
> >
> > What's a good way to install chicken on windows? The binary installer
> links shown on the web page seems dated.
> >
> > Can I build chicken using VC?
> >
> > Is this the right place to download mingw64 -
> http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php/start
> > I could not find a download link.
> >
> > I'd appreciate your help very much.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kashyap
> >
> > ___
> > Chicken-users mailing list
> > Chicken-users@nongnu.org
> > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
>
> Hi!
>
> The simplest way is to install pre-packaged CHICKEN, see
> https://wiki.call-cc.org/platforms#microsoft-windows-
>
> I guess the available binary packages are dated because in 4.10 CHICKEN
> changed ABI and build requires bootstrapping which is a pain and nobody
> bothered because Windows is not popular here.
>
> No, you can't build it using VC either. A build system requires GNU make
> and code has some GCC'isms and UNIX'isms. Core can be fixed with a few
> relatively trivial patches but supporting utilities (chicken-install and
> friends) can not, so you wont be able to install eggs. I had the patches in
> my CMake based CHICKEN fork but abandoned it due to lack of public interest.
>
> --
> Regards, Oleg
>
>
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>
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Re: [Chicken-users] Installing chicken on windows

[Oleg Kolosov]

> On 08 Jul 2016, at 00:48, C K Kashyap  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I am very new to Chicken. I've been able to get started with it on my mac 
> using homebrew. I am not sure about how to get started on windows though.
> 
> What's a good way to install chicken on windows? The binary installer links 
> shown on the web page seems dated.
> 
> Can I build chicken using VC? 
> 
> Is this the right place to download mingw64 - 
> http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php/start
> I could not find a download link.
> 
> I'd appreciate your help very much.
> 
> Regards,
> Kashyap
> 
> ___
> Chicken-users mailing list
> Chicken-users@nongnu.org
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users

Hi!

The simplest way is to install pre-packaged CHICKEN, see 
https://wiki.call-cc.org/platforms#microsoft-windows-

I guess the available binary packages are dated because in 4.10 CHICKEN changed 
ABI and build requires bootstrapping which is a pain and nobody bothered 
because Windows is not popular here.

No, you can't build it using VC either. A build system requires GNU make and 
code has some GCC'isms and UNIX'isms. Core can be fixed with a few relatively 
trivial patches but supporting utilities (chicken-install and friends) can not, 
so you wont be able to install eggs. I had the patches in my CMake based 
CHICKEN fork but abandoned it due to lack of public interest.

-- 
Regards, Oleg


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