Re: [Chicken-users] Clojure
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Leonardo Valeri Maneral.valeriman...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/7/3 Andreas Rottmann a.rottm...@gmx.at: Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl writes: On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 01:42:16PM -0700, Shawn Rutledge wrote: If you want real Scheme (rather than just lisp-like) you could try Kawa. I have not tried either one, though. Actually, I think SISC is the canonical Scheme-on-Java. Not sure why, possibly because it's better maintained or implements Scheme more completely? IIRC, SISC is a complete implementation of R5RS, while Kawa punts on continuations (it has only escape continuations) and proper tail calls[0]. [0] http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/internals/complications.html Regards, Rotty I've always considered the most important difference between the two to be the fact that SISC is an interpreter, while Kawa is also a bytecode compiler. There are some cases where you want compiled classes to be crapped out at the end of the day, continuations or no continuations. I do wish the SISC codebase would move a little, afaik its been static since early 2008, and while its good, its not bug-free. Kawa has limitations, but is maintained. In the end, it comes to the right tool for the job. One's aim should be to ensure that the tool isn't Java. :d As long as your referring to Java the language and not Java the platform (i.e. the JVM), I'll agree with you. What are peoples opinions on Bigloo, which I believe can create Java Bytecode and/or compile to C source files? -- http://www.apgwoz.com ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
[Chicken-users] Clojure
Hi all, I'm curious. Has anyone in the Chicken community looked at Clojure - the new Lisp-like language that ties in to the JVM?I spent some time with it last week and found it not quite ready for prime time. (I think it's more Java than Lisp) It got me thinking, however.Java is a complex abomination, but it does have one thing in it's favor - the JVM and the endless libraries you'll find there.Whenever I tell people how great Chicken Scheme is they always come back to me with the same agrument they use against Lisp - it just doesn't have the breadth of libraries needed in the real world.There are a lot of eggs, but not some key ones (PNG and GTK for instance) How do we change this and compete with the ideas behind Clojure and Scala?Scheme is a much better language. Bill ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Clojure
On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 04:12:17PM -0400, bill wrote: Hi all, It got me thinking, however.Java is a complex abomination, but it does have one thing in it's favor - the JVM and the endless libraries you'll find there.Whenever I tell people how great Chicken Scheme is they always come back to me with the same agrument they use against Lisp - it just doesn't have the breadth of libraries needed in the real world.There are a lot of eggs, but not some key ones (PNG and GTK for instance) How do we change this and compete with the ideas behind Clojure and Scala?Scheme is a much better language. The best way to change this is to write these missing eggs! Also, we have a javahack egg, so we can still make some use of what the JVM has to offer. I've never used it because I won't touch Java with a 10-foot pole, so I don't know how good it is. Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music. -- Donald Knuth pgpPEtzXxqxCq.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Clojure
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:12 PM, billramsa...@comcast.net wrote: I'm curious. Has anyone in the Chicken community looked at Clojure - the new Lisp-like language that ties in to the JVM? I spent some time with it last week and found it not quite ready for prime time. (I think it's more Java than Lisp) It got me thinking, however. Java is a complex abomination, but it does have one thing in it's favor - the JVM and the endless libraries you'll find there. Whenever I tell people how great Chicken Scheme is they always If you want real Scheme (rather than just lisp-like) you could try Kawa. I have not tried either one, though. It's allegedly possible to compile Kawa with gcj. Would be interesting to have the best of all 3 worlds - some compiled code for speed, plus a VM for compatibility with Java class files you might want to re-use, plus a Scheme interpreter. But no idea if it's practical, not having tried it... ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Clojure
Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl writes: On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 01:42:16PM -0700, Shawn Rutledge wrote: If you want real Scheme (rather than just lisp-like) you could try Kawa. I have not tried either one, though. Actually, I think SISC is the canonical Scheme-on-Java. Not sure why, possibly because it's better maintained or implements Scheme more completely? IIRC, SISC is a complete implementation of R5RS, while Kawa punts on continuations (it has only escape continuations) and proper tail calls[0]. [0] http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/internals/complications.html Regards, Rotty ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] Clojure
2009/7/3 Andreas Rottmann a.rottm...@gmx.at: Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl writes: On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 01:42:16PM -0700, Shawn Rutledge wrote: If you want real Scheme (rather than just lisp-like) you could try Kawa. I have not tried either one, though. Actually, I think SISC is the canonical Scheme-on-Java. Not sure why, possibly because it's better maintained or implements Scheme more completely? IIRC, SISC is a complete implementation of R5RS, while Kawa punts on continuations (it has only escape continuations) and proper tail calls[0]. [0] http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/internals/complications.html Regards, Rotty I've always considered the most important difference between the two to be the fact that SISC is an interpreter, while Kawa is also a bytecode compiler. There are some cases where you want compiled classes to be crapped out at the end of the day, continuations or no continuations. I do wish the SISC codebase would move a little, afaik its been static since early 2008, and while its good, its not bug-free. Kawa has limitations, but is maintained. In the end, it comes to the right tool for the job. One's aim should be to ensure that the tool isn't Java. :d Cheers, Leo ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
