Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Here are some numbers: 10.5 75270ms 10.6 Core Text 77191ms 10.6 ATSUI 73293ms These were calculated by running PageCyclerTest.Intl2File 3 times on each platform, summing the times reported for the individual tests and then averaging over the 3 runs. I'm not sure these actually represent interesting numbers. The extra speediness in 10.6 ATSUI may be due to it ignoring certain parts of the font hinting data leading to the bug this is all in place to fix. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Mark Mentovai m...@chromium.org wrote: Jeremy Moskovich wrote: Yep, Avi's right - we don't really have that option here. ATSUI is deprecated in 10.6 - we're seeing crashes and incorrect rendering. If there are perf issues we can file radars against Core Text. We should at least know what this change does to us perf-wise. If we're not happy with the outcome, there may be things we can tune on our side or things that we can press on Apple to investigate on the CoreText side. Mark -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
We will. It's on my plate and TVL's. We did have some hardware slated to use for this, but we've slowly chipped away at that, so it'll come out of the next batch. Bringing up the 10.6 bots had to take a back seat to the other things that we needed to do in the beta run-up, but 10.6 bots are a much higher priority now. Mark Darin Fisher wrote: It seems like we should have perf bots for 10.6 and 10.5. (We have perf bots for XP and Vista.) -Darin On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: I'll put together some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Mark Mentovai m...@chromium.org wrote: Jeremy Moskovich wrote: Yep, Avi's right - we don't really have that option here. ATSUI is deprecated in 10.6 - we're seeing crashes and incorrect rendering. If there are perf issues we can file radars against Core Text. We should at least know what this change does to us perf-wise. If we're not happy with the outcome, there may be things we can tune on our side or things that we can press on Apple to investigate on the CoreText side. Mark -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Sounds great. Thanks, -Darin On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Mark Mentovai m...@chromium.org wrote: We will. It's on my plate and TVL's. We did have some hardware slated to use for this, but we've slowly chipped away at that, so it'll come out of the next batch. Bringing up the 10.6 bots had to take a back seat to the other things that we needed to do in the beta run-up, but 10.6 bots are a much higher priority now. Mark Darin Fisher wrote: It seems like we should have perf bots for 10.6 and 10.5. (We have perf bots for XP and Vista.) -Darin On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: I'll put together some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Mark Mentovai m...@chromium.org wrote: Jeremy Moskovich wrote: Yep, Avi's right - we don't really have that option here. ATSUI is deprecated in 10.6 - we're seeing crashes and incorrect rendering. If there are perf issues we can file radars against Core Text. We should at least know what this change does to us perf-wise. If we're not happy with the outcome, there may be things we can tune on our side or things that we can press on Apple to investigate on the CoreText side. Mark -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Thanks Drew, I'll look into toggling ATSUI/Core Text at runtime based on OS version then. Best regards, Jeremy On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Drew Wilson atwil...@chromium.org wrote: It looks like this had some negative perf issues: http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/waterfall/builders/Mac10.5%20Perf%281%29/builds/6289/steps/page_cycler_intl2/logs/stdio http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/perf/mac-release-10.5/intl2/report.html?history=150 (my DEPS roll was 33776) I'm going to revert. -atw 2009/12/3 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Hi Drew Albert, I picked your names off the WebKit sheriff calendar. I've landed a change to switch the Mac port over from ATSUI-Core Text APIs on the WebKit tree at http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/51633 . If you see stability or performance issues on the next WebKit roll then feel free to revert this CL (just drop me an email with a link to the bad run if you do so, please). Thanks, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Thanks Hironori, I thought so too at the beginning but it turns out that they are available, just not declared in public headers. The WebKit bug I linked to has a patch that switches us to Core Text on 10.5 10.6. I'll do some perf tests and then we can make a decision based on that. Best regards, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Hironori Bono (坊野 博典) hb...@chromium.org Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Hi Drew Albert, I picked your names off the WebKit sheriff calendar. I've landed a change to switch the Mac port over from ATSUI-Core Text APIs on the WebKit tree at http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/51633 . If you see stability or performance issues on the next WebKit roll then feel free to revert this CL (just drop me an email with a link to the bad run if you do so, please). Thanks, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Thanks Hironori, I thought so too at the beginning but it turns out that they are available, just not declared in public headers. The WebKit bug I linked to has a patch that switches us to Core Text on 10.5 10.6. I'll do some perf tests and then we can make a decision based on that. Best regards, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Hironori Bono (坊野 博典) hb...@chromium.org Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Hi Jeremy, My next roll will be to 51642 (in progress). I'll ping you when it lands so you can keep an eye on it too. -atw 2009/12/3 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Hi Drew Albert, I picked your names off the WebKit sheriff calendar. I've landed a change to switch the Mac port over from ATSUI-Core Text APIs on the WebKit tree at http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/51633 . If you see stability or performance issues on the next WebKit roll then feel free to revert this CL (just drop me an email with a link to the bad run if you do so, please). Thanks, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Thanks Hironori, I thought so too at the beginning but it turns out that they are available, just not declared in public headers. The WebKit bug I linked to has a patch that switches us to Core Text on 10.5 10.6. I'll do some perf tests and then we can make a decision based on that. Best regards, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Hironori Bono (坊野 博典) hb...@chromium.org Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
It looks like this had some negative perf issues: http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/waterfall/builders/Mac10.5%20Perf%281%29/builds/6289/steps/page_cycler_intl2/logs/stdio http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/perf/mac-release-10.5/intl2/report.html?history=150 (my DEPS roll was 33776) I'm going to revert. -atw 2009/12/3 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Hi Drew Albert, I picked your names off the WebKit sheriff calendar. I've landed a change to switch the Mac port over from ATSUI-Core Text APIs on the WebKit tree at http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/51633 . If you see stability or performance issues on the next WebKit roll then feel free to revert this CL (just drop me an email with a link to the bad run if you do so, please). Thanks, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org Thanks Hironori, I thought so too at the beginning but it turns out that they are available, just not declared in public headers. The WebKit bug I linked to has a patch that switches us to Core Text on 10.5 10.6. I'll do some perf tests and then we can make a decision based on that. Best regards, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Hironori Bono (坊野 博典) hb...@chromium.org Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
[chromium-dev] Core Text
Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.orgwrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802: Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
As an aside, have we looked at using DirectWrite() on Windows? -- Dirk On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.org wrote: As an aside, have we looked at using DirectWrite() on Windows? crbug.com/25541 (No) PK -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
Re: [chromium-dev] Core Text
Thanks Hironori, I thought so too at the beginning but it turns out that they are available, just not declared in public headers. The WebKit bug I linked to has a patch that switches us to Core Text on 10.5 10.6. I'll do some perf tests and then we can make a decision based on that. Best regards, Jeremy 2009/11/24 Hironori Bono (坊野 博典) hb...@chromium.org Greetings Jeremy, This is just for your information. It seems WebCore/platform/graphics/mac/ComplexTextControllerCoreText.cpp uses CTRunGetAdvancesPtr() and CTRunGetAdvances(), which are available only on 10.6 or later. (This might be a reason why WebKit doesn't use Core Text for Leopard?) (*1) http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/CTRunRef/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/func/CTRunGetAdvancesPtr Best regards, Hironori Bono E-mail: hb...@chromium.org On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Thanks Nico, I'll run some numbers. Best regards, Jeremy On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nico Weber tha...@chromium.org wrote: Did you do measuring if it's actually slower on 10.5? The CoreText backend for MacVim is much faster than the ATSUI backend from what I've heard (then again, MacVim doesn't do very complex text rendering). (Source: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac/browse_thread/thread/b93c6dd5183bdc5e ) On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Jeremy Moskovich jer...@chromium.org wrote: Re http://crbug.com/27195 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31802 : Dan Bernstein says that Core Text on Leopard has performance issues vs ATSUI so I'm going to look into switching APIs at runtime rather than compile time. So we'd use ATSUI 10.6 Core Text = 10.6 . Best regards, Jeremy -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -- Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev
