Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011, Mack McBride wrote: The 9K uses a crossbar fabric evolved from the 6500/7600 (not the same as the GSR - CRS evolved fabric) The port interface chips are the same. The NPU chip is the same as used in the ES cards. Primary difference is in the way the FIB is run on the 9K vs DFC on the 7600. Basically they 9K uses the NPU to do more than the 7600 so it is in a lot of ways more efficient but it is also more 'software' based (not necessarily a bad thing as it is more flexible). Being evolved from the 7600 should give users confidence that it is solid. That is a good thing. But it isn't so revolutionary that the 7600 is completely obsolete. After discounts the 9K still cost more but has a longer life expectancy. After some calculation: AS9006 with 6-8 10 GE and 20 GE is slightly cheaper on list prices than C7606 with similar amount of ports with ES+ cards. The only problem I see at the moment is the software upgrade on ASR9K IOS-XR. Most of the time one swoftware upgrade requires two reboot (each ~ 10 minutes). In C7600/C6500 we could do software upgrade most of the time with RP switchover under 2 minutes. Best Regards, Janos Mohacsi Mack -Original Message- From: Jason Lixfeld [mailto:ja...@lixfeld.ca] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:27 PM To: Mack McBride Cc: mti...@globaltransit.net; cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 On 2011-10-03, at 11:37 PM, Mack McBride wrote: The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). Where? The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On Wednesday, October 05, 2011 02:51:18 PM Mohacsi Janos wrote: After some calculation: AS9006 with 6-8 10 GE and 20 GE is slightly cheaper on list prices than C7606 with similar amount of ports with ES+ cards. You really can get an ASR9000 at a much better, similarly- spec'ed 7600. Just spend some time with your account team :-). The only problem I see at the moment is the software upgrade on ASR9K IOS-XR. Most of the time one swoftware upgrade requires two reboot (each ~ 10 minutes). In C7600/C6500 we could do software upgrade most of the time with RP switchover under 2 minutes. This is a general problem with IOS XR-based systems. Even service-impacting SMU's that reload fabrics or line cards can make software upgrades a very annoying experience. I've discussed this with our SE many times. He says Cisco are looking at optimizing the process so code updates run faster. I suppose time will tell, but as of now, we easily can spend 2hrs on a box if we're catching up with all SMU's. More if we're also moving up a release. Cheers, Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On (2011-10-04 00:26 -0400), Jason Lixfeld wrote: The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ASR9k does not have any PFC engines, like 7600 must have. But indeed ES+ EZchip is same chip ASR9k uses exclusively (there are no PFCs in ASR9k). Also IIRC the fabric ASR9k uses is from 'cat' BU, same fabric nexus7k uses (i.e. next-gen cat6k fabric). (In this sense 7600 with ES+ is lot more complex than ASR9k, as you need to have both ES+ and PFC chips) -- ++ytti ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
The 9K uses a crossbar fabric evolved from the 6500/7600 (not the same as the GSR - CRS evolved fabric) The port interface chips are the same. The NPU chip is the same as used in the ES cards. Primary difference is in the way the FIB is run on the 9K vs DFC on the 7600. Basically they 9K uses the NPU to do more than the 7600 so it is in a lot of ways more efficient but it is also more 'software' based (not necessarily a bad thing as it is more flexible). Being evolved from the 7600 should give users confidence that it is solid. That is a good thing. But it isn't so revolutionary that the 7600 is completely obsolete. After discounts the 9K still cost more but has a longer life expectancy. Mack -Original Message- From: Jason Lixfeld [mailto:ja...@lixfeld.ca] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:27 PM To: Mack McBride Cc: mti...@globaltransit.net; cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 On 2011-10-03, at 11:37 PM, Mack McBride wrote: The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). Where? The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
7600 is 80G per slot ASR9K is 180G per slot (with both RP working) in future with new RP you can get more density per slot, so more salable. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -Original Message- From: Mack McBride mack.mcbr...@viawest.com Sender: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:49:22 To: Jason Lixfeldja...@lixfeld.ca Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.netcisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 The 9K uses a crossbar fabric evolved from the 6500/7600 (not the same as the GSR - CRS evolved fabric) The port interface chips are the same. The NPU chip is the same as used in the ES cards. Primary difference is in the way the FIB is run on the 9K vs DFC on the 7600. Basically they 9K uses the NPU to do more than the 7600 so it is in a lot of ways more efficient but it is also more 'software' based (not necessarily a bad thing as it is more flexible). Being evolved from the 7600 should give users confidence that it is solid. That is a good thing. But it isn't so revolutionary that the 7600 is completely obsolete. After discounts the 9K still cost more but has a longer life expectancy. Mack -Original Message- From: Jason Lixfeld [mailto:ja...@lixfeld.ca] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:27 PM To: Mack McBride Cc: mti...@globaltransit.net; cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 On 2011-10-03, at 11:37 PM, Mack McBride wrote: The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). Where? The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
It is an improvement but not much (with current gen RP). The primary improvement is using both fabric channels as active/active. Mack -Original Message- From: guru6...@gmail.com [mailto:guru6...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 12:06 PM To: Mack McBride; cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net; Jason Lixfeld Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 7600 is 80G per slot ASR9K is 180G per slot (with both RP working) in future with new RP you can get more density per slot, so more salable. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -Original Message- From: Mack McBride mack.mcbr...@viawest.com Sender: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:49:22 To: Jason Lixfeldja...@lixfeld.ca Cc: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.netcisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 The 9K uses a crossbar fabric evolved from the 6500/7600 (not the same as the GSR - CRS evolved fabric) The port interface chips are the same. The NPU chip is the same as used in the ES cards. Primary difference is in the way the FIB is run on the 9K vs DFC on the 7600. Basically they 9K uses the NPU to do more than the 7600 so it is in a lot of ways more efficient but it is also more 'software' based (not necessarily a bad thing as it is more flexible). Being evolved from the 7600 should give users confidence that it is solid. That is a good thing. But it isn't so revolutionary that the 7600 is completely obsolete. After discounts the 9K still cost more but has a longer life expectancy. Mack -Original Message- From: Jason Lixfeld [mailto:ja...@lixfeld.ca] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:27 PM To: Mack McBride Cc: mti...@globaltransit.net; cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 On 2011-10-03, at 11:37 PM, Mack McBride wrote: The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). Where? The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On Wednesday, October 05, 2011 02:12:53 AM Mack McBride wrote: It is an improvement but not much (with current gen RP). The primary improvement is using both fabric channels as active/active. On the software side, one thing I would say is that before you buy an ASR9000, make sure RPL does what you want. If it doesn't, that's not an excuse not to buy it either, but just one to ask your SE to get the features you want implemented. As I've said on this list before, the RPL model, while much improved from the route-map one, is less intuitive and not on par with what we've known from classic IOS. A number of features I requested are in the works, but your environment might be a little more different. Simple installations should not have an issue, as RPL covers pretty much everything for your basic routing policy. Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On Monday, October 03, 2011 02:06:16 AM Michał Grzybczyk wrote: Hi, Any opinion which one is the better choice for a core network ? How much different is OS on ASR 9000 in comparizon to IOS ? If I know IOS there is no problem to operate it ? Assuming that I need MPLS, VPLS, H-QOS ... and of course the most important is stable, stable ... and reliable device ! If you're looking for a core application, then either box should do just fine. Of course, the ASR9000 would make more sense as I think it would be cheaper, is far more modern, and is where Cisco will be focusing development for the next phase of platforms in this space. The ASR9000 runs IOS XR, which is quite different from IOS fundamentally. Some might argue it's more stable, especially if you need a core application. QoS on the ASR9000 is not bad. I think the 7600 would be just as good if you were running the ES line cards. I'd say take an ASR9000, in case, some day, you need run a collapsed core. If you're sure you'll always be running the box as a core node, and only if it's dirt cheap, you may consider a 7600. Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On Oct 3, 2011, at 2:06 AM, Michał Grzybczyk wrote: Any opinion which one is the better choice for a core network ? The ASR9K is a much better choice for the peering/transit edge, as it produces operationally useful NetFlow telemetry and allows per-interface uRPF settings, and doesn't have bizarre caveats on ACL operands. --- Roland Dobbins rdobb...@arbor.net // http://www.arbornetworks.com The basis of optimism is sheer terror. -- Oscar Wilde ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. The 7600 is a more 'mature' platform but as Mark notes there is a completely different architecture at the OS level. Roland noted that the ASR9K has netflow and uRPF advantages. The differences at the ACL level are less likely to be noticeable unless you are trying to use the device as a full scale firewall. Mack -Original Message- From: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Mark Tinka Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:16 PM To: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000 On Monday, October 03, 2011 02:06:16 AM Michał Grzybczyk wrote: Hi, Any opinion which one is the better choice for a core network ? How much different is OS on ASR 9000 in comparizon to IOS ? If I know IOS there is no problem to operate it ? Assuming that I need MPLS, VPLS, H-QOS ... and of course the most important is stable, stable ... and reliable device ! If you're looking for a core application, then either box should do just fine. Of course, the ASR9000 would make more sense as I think it would be cheaper, is far more modern, and is where Cisco will be focusing development for the next phase of platforms in this space. The ASR9000 runs IOS XR, which is quite different from IOS fundamentally. Some might argue it's more stable, especially if you need a core application. QoS on the ASR9000 is not bad. I think the 7600 would be just as good if you were running the ES line cards. I'd say take an ASR9000, in case, some day, you need run a collapsed core. If you're sure you'll always be running the box as a core node, and only if it's dirt cheap, you may consider a 7600. Mark. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
On 2011-10-03, at 11:37 PM, Mack McBride wrote: The 7600 and ASR9000 use a lot of similar hardware (Cisco didn't reinvent the wheel they just added rims). Where? The ASR line cards resemble the ES series on the 7600. Where? If one is using an ES port on a 7600, I'd assume one is likely using EVCs on said port. The ES ports on the 7600s do not support SPAN on a physical interface that is configured with EVCs. The ASR9k thankfully supports this extremely basic feature. The 7600 ES port's lack of SPAN on an EVC would lead me to believe that the ASIC controlling the ES is very different than the ASIC controlling the ASR linecards. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] C7600 vs. ASR 9000
Hi, Any opinion which one is the better choice for a core network ? How much different is OS on ASR 9000 in comparizon to IOS ? If I know IOS there is no problem to operate it ? Assuming that I need MPLS, VPLS, H-QOS ... and of course the most important is stable, stable ... and reliable device ! Thanks in advance, Regards, grzybek ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
