Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Aaron]

I suddenly feel like a wannabe (lol)... mine only had 8 years 28 weeks of
uptime.

Ok so that's 2 of y'all with +10 years uptime...

Who out there has a device with 15 years ?!  ...20 years ?!!  let us
knowoh, I just remembered something..the world came to
screeching holt ~17 years ago when Y2K crashed everything right ?  y'all
remember right ?  when we all bought bunkers and dehydrated meals and
generators and prepared for a worldwide blackout??LOL

- Aaron

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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Aaron]

We recently decommissioned an old cisco 4500 ring... just before shutting
down one of the nodes I check it's uptime.  At that time, I had worked here
for 8 years... This switch had been running and working longer than I'd been
here !  ...during that ~8 years, it never put in a PTO request or called in
sick !

sw0.s.4503#sh ver | in uptime
sw0.s.4503 uptime is 8 years, 28 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 4 minutes

- Aaron





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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Pedro Caetano]

It is not stacked indeed :-)

These are:
*1   54 WS-C3750E-48PD 12.2(37)SE1
C3750E-UNIVERSAL-M
 2   54 WS-C3750E-48PD 12.2(37)SE1
C3750E-UNIVERSAL-M
sw_ARQSONY_3750E-02 uptime is 4 years, 44 weeks, 6 days, 7 hours, 21 minutes

BR,
Pedro Caetano

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Nick Cutting <ncutt...@edgetg.com> wrote:

> Let me guess - It is not stacked?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of
> Pedro Caetano
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:48 AM
> To: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net
> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days
>
> Hi,
>
> I also have a c3750 with a nice uptime (still) running:
>
> sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh clock
> 16:46:24.286 PT Sat Dec 10 2016
> sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh version
> Cisco IOS Software, C3750 Software (C3750-IPBASE-M), Version 12.2(25)SEB4,
> RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) Copyright (c) 1986-2005 by Cisco Systems, Inc.
> Compiled Tue 30-Aug-05 15:47 by yenanh
>
> ROM: Bootstrap program is C3750 boot loader
> BOOTLDR: C3750 Boot Loader (C3750-HBOOT-M) Version 12.2(25r)SE1, RELEASE
> SOFTWARE (fc)
>
>  sw_GRAF-3750-01 uptime is 10 years, 43 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes
>
>
> BR,
> Pedro Caetano
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Marco van den Bovenkamp <
> ma...@linuxgoeroe.dhs.org> wrote:
>
> > . I didn't just play with them back in the day, I still
> > own one! A CGS running IOS 8.0.
> >
> > It's actually older than the one they have in the small museum in the
> > main Cisco building here in Amsterdam. I checked :-)
> >
> > Ah, when ciscos (no capitals!) were white and the IOS documentation
> > fit in a single binder...
> >
> > On December 9, 2016 4:58:10 PM CET, Traveling Diner
> > <ccie4...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >You guys making reference to all these Cisco numbered-series devices...
> > >let's go back and talk AGS/AGS+, CGS, IGS... the letter-series devices.
> > >How many of ya'll got to play with the jumpers on the boards inside
> > >the
> > >AGS+? ;-)
> > >
> > >On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Saku Ytti <s...@ytti.fi> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering <g...@greenie.muc.de>
> > >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list
> > >price
> > >> > insanity.
> > >>
> > >> I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be
> > >> compared against GSR, but no small model existed.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>   ++ytti
> > >> ___
> > >> cisco-nsp mailing list  cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net
> > >> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> > >> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
> > >>
> > >___
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> > >https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> > >archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > ___
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Nick Cutting]

Let me guess - It is not stacked? 

-Original Message-
From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Pedro 
Caetano
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:48 AM
To: cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

Hi,

I also have a c3750 with a nice uptime (still) running:

sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh clock
16:46:24.286 PT Sat Dec 10 2016
sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh version
Cisco IOS Software, C3750 Software (C3750-IPBASE-M), Version 12.2(25)SEB4, 
RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) Copyright (c) 1986-2005 by Cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 30-Aug-05 15:47 by yenanh

ROM: Bootstrap program is C3750 boot loader
BOOTLDR: C3750 Boot Loader (C3750-HBOOT-M) Version 12.2(25r)SE1, RELEASE 
SOFTWARE (fc)

 sw_GRAF-3750-01 uptime is 10 years, 43 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes


BR,
Pedro Caetano


On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Marco van den Bovenkamp < 
ma...@linuxgoeroe.dhs.org> wrote:

> . I didn't just play with them back in the day, I still 
> own one! A CGS running IOS 8.0.
>
> It's actually older than the one they have in the small museum in the 
> main Cisco building here in Amsterdam. I checked :-)
>
> Ah, when ciscos (no capitals!) were white and the IOS documentation 
> fit in a single binder...
>
> On December 9, 2016 4:58:10 PM CET, Traveling Diner 
> <ccie4...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >You guys making reference to all these Cisco numbered-series devices...
> >let's go back and talk AGS/AGS+, CGS, IGS... the letter-series devices.
> >How many of ya'll got to play with the jumpers on the boards inside 
> >the
> >AGS+? ;-)
> >
> >On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Saku Ytti <s...@ytti.fi> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering <g...@greenie.muc.de>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list
> >price
> >> > insanity.
> >>
> >> I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be 
> >> compared against GSR, but no small model existed.
> >>
> >> --
> >>   ++ytti
> >> ___
> >> cisco-nsp mailing list  cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net 
> >> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> >> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
> >>
> >___
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> >https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> >archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Pedro Caetano]

Hi,

I also have a c3750 with a nice uptime (still) running:

sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh clock
16:46:24.286 PT Sat Dec 10 2016
sw_GRAF-3750-01#sh version
Cisco IOS Software, C3750 Software (C3750-IPBASE-M), Version 12.2(25)SEB4,
RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2005 by Cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Tue 30-Aug-05 15:47 by yenanh

ROM: Bootstrap program is C3750 boot loader
BOOTLDR: C3750 Boot Loader (C3750-HBOOT-M) Version 12.2(25r)SE1, RELEASE
SOFTWARE (fc)

 sw_GRAF-3750-01 uptime is 10 years, 43 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes


BR,
Pedro Caetano


On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Marco van den Bovenkamp <
ma...@linuxgoeroe.dhs.org> wrote:

> . I didn't just play with them back in the day, I still own
> one! A CGS running IOS 8.0.
>
> It's actually older than the one they have in the small museum in the main
> Cisco building here in Amsterdam. I checked :-)
>
> Ah, when ciscos (no capitals!) were white and the IOS documentation fit in
> a single binder...
>
> On December 9, 2016 4:58:10 PM CET, Traveling Diner 
> wrote:
> >You guys making reference to all these Cisco numbered-series devices...
> >let's go back and talk AGS/AGS+, CGS, IGS... the letter-series devices.
> >How many of ya'll got to play with the jumpers on the boards inside the
> >AGS+? ;-)
> >
> >On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Saku Ytti  wrote:
> >
> >> On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering 
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list
> >price
> >> > insanity.
> >>
> >> I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be
> >> compared against GSR, but no small model existed.
> >>
> >> --
> >>   ++ytti
> >> ___
> >> cisco-nsp mailing list  cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net
> >> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> >> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
> >>
> >___
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> >archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Marco van den Bovenkamp]

. I didn't just play with them back in the day, I still own one! A 
CGS running IOS 8.0.

It's actually older than the one they have in the small museum in the main 
Cisco building here in Amsterdam. I checked :-)

Ah, when ciscos (no capitals!) were white and the IOS documentation fit in a 
single binder...

On December 9, 2016 4:58:10 PM CET, Traveling Diner  wrote:
>You guys making reference to all these Cisco numbered-series devices...
>let's go back and talk AGS/AGS+, CGS, IGS... the letter-series devices.
>How many of ya'll got to play with the jumpers on the boards inside the
>AGS+? ;-)
>
>On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Saku Ytti  wrote:
>
>> On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering 
>wrote:
>>
>> > Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list
>price
>> > insanity.
>>
>> I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be
>> compared against GSR, but no small model existed.
>>
>> --
>>   ++ytti
>> ___
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>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
>> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
>>
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Traveling Diner]

You guys making reference to all these Cisco numbered-series devices...
let's go back and talk AGS/AGS+, CGS, IGS... the letter-series devices.
How many of ya'll got to play with the jumpers on the boards inside the
AGS+? ;-)

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Saku Ytti  wrote:

> On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering  wrote:
>
> > Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list price
> > insanity.
>
> I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be
> compared against GSR, but no small model existed.
>
> --
>   ++ytti
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Saku Ytti]

On 9 December 2016 at 09:49, Gert Doering  wrote:

> Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list price
> insanity.

I think 7200 and ASR1k are more apt comparison. ASR9001 should be
compared against GSR, but no small model existed.

-- 
  ++ytti
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 09, 2016 at 01:36:06AM +0200, Saku Ytti wrote:
> Perhaps easiest to quantify is the list price:
> 
> 
> 2004:
> WS-C2950G-48-EI  Catalyst 2950, 48 10/100 with 2 GBIC slots,
> Enhanced Image  D 4,135
> 
> 2016:
>  $4195 - WS-C2960X-48TS-L [Catalyst 2960-X 48 GigE, 4 x 1G SFP, LAN Base]
> 
> 
> This one anecdote at least does not seem to support price inflation.
> It seems entry level 48 port switch is cheaper now than it was in 2004
> considering yearly inflation. It probably should cost like 5200-5300
> now to cost the same.

Well, but in 2004, that was the price of a 48 port switch, because the
tech was new and expensive.

In 2016, an manageable 48 port switch costs "well below 1000" from 
everyone else, so while the *list* price in your example is about the
same, real prices for that sort of tech has gone way down.

Compare a 7200 of 15 years ago with an ASR9001 of today for list price
insanity.

gert
-- 
USENET is *not* the non-clickable part of WWW!
   //www.muc.de/~gert/
Gert Doering - Munich, Germany g...@greenie.muc.de
fax: +49-89-35655025g...@net.informatik.tu-muenchen.de


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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Justin M. Streiner]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016, Howard Jones wrote:


The good old days of absolutely shocking software testing...
e.g. the Ascend Max software build that never released IPs from the assigned 
client IP pool - 200 user connections later, the helpdesk goes crazy. Or the 
awesome Nortel Baystack bugs where pressing the "wrong" key in the "wrong" 
menu would just crash the whole stack. Both in GA firmware. Nortel had a 
whole selection of similar issues in their errata.


If we're going down this road, Bay Networks is a vendor that gave me fits 
of rage in the mid-late 90s.  Bay Networks had a default CLI that was 
slightly north of useless at the time.  Anything useful on those routers 
had to be done through a GUI app called Site Manager (or Site Mangler, or

Site Damager).

In an effort to try to compete with IOS, they released an optional CLI
shell called BCC (their name: Bay Command Console.  Our name: Blatant
Cisco Clone).  It tried to emulate the look and feel of IOS on a Bay 
router, but at least in that very early version, was sorely lacking. 
Typing "delete ?" would not bring up a list of options to follow "delete", 
but instead it caused the router to delete every route entry it had and 
knock itself offline until it was rebooted.  Great fun in a lights-out 
facility and no out-of-band console access to the box :|


jms
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Saku Ytti]

On 8 December 2016 at 23:14, Gert Doering  wrote:

> And vendors that actually cared what their users asked for (at least
> if you offered some money as bait).  And understood protocol specs.
>
> Nowadays?  "No other customer ever asked for that"
>
> Yes, there might have been more bugs in basic stuff, but people cared
> about making that stuff work.  Now, all you get is "more shiny" (and
> more insane list prices so you could get more impressive discounts).

Don't experience any of these differences, but hard to quantify. I've
heard 'no other customer ever asked for that' as long as I can
remember. Perhaps easiest to quantify is the list price:


2004:
WS-C2950G-48-EI  Catalyst 2950, 48 10/100 with 2 GBIC slots,
Enhanced Image  D 4,135

2016:
 $4195 - WS-C2960X-48TS-L [Catalyst 2960-X 48 GigE, 4 x 1G SFP, LAN Base]


This one anecdote at least does not seem to support price inflation.
It seems entry level 48 port switch is cheaper now than it was in 2004
considering yearly inflation. It probably should cost like 5200-5300
now to cost the same.

I remember vendors having clueless and clueful people as long as I've
worked with them. Sadly I can't neither say that I think software
quality has changed, I seem to open same amount of TAC cases as ever.

If there are significant changes, they are escaping my capacity to
quantify them. One thing I can say is, there is lot more red tape
today as Internet is lot more important, I remember when all testing
was done in production and maintenance windows didn't exist, you did
what you needed when you felt like it should be done. But that is
mostly to have better excuses and less responsibility on your failures
than actually having higher quality or fewer outages.



-- 
  ++ytti
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Jon Lewis]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016, Howard Jones wrote:


The good old days of absolutely shocking software testing...
e.g. the Ascend Max software build that never released IPs from the assigned 
client IP pool - 200 user connections later, the helpdesk goes crazy. Or the 
awesome Nortel Baystack bugs where pressing the "wrong" key in the "wrong" 
menu would just crash the whole stack. Both in GA firmware. Nortel had a 
whole selection of similar issues in their errata.


Reminds me of a bit of consulting I did way back on a SCO Unix server. 
Being used to Linux, and curious what was in the /etc/hosts file, I 
half-typed/half-tab completed "cat /etc/host" and hit enter, not noticing 
that it'd stopped short of the s.  The system immediately crashed / locked 
up.  Realizing, what I'd done, (on SCO, /etc/host is a binary), I expected 
crap in my terminal...but not that the system should crash from that. 
It's owner called SCO support, explained what happened, and was told it 
was a known bug...and "would you like to buy the update that fixes it?" 
WTF?!?


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 |  therefore you are
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Charles Sprickman via cisco-nsp]

--- Begin Message ---

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 5:26 PM, Nick Hilliard  wrote:
> 
> Gert Doering wrote:
>> And vendors that actually cared what their users asked for (at least
>> if you offered some money as bait).  And understood protocol specs.
> 
> URTROLL
> 
> I still, ironically, have a Xylogics T shirt buried away somewhere
> because of the rage they caused me a very, very long time ago indeed.
> No indication about caring.  No understanding of how a protocol should
> work. Basic bugs.  Awful, the lot of it.

Thanks for mentioning that name.  Now I’m going to have nightmares.

My path from support to sysadmin took me to the hardware no one else
wanted to touch - Annex 3 and Annex 4000(?) from Xylogics.  There were
maybe about 4 of them total with a bunch of modems hanging off of them
for dialup access.  This predated affordable bulk modem gear from USR
and Ascend.

Total junk.  Printed manuals that included shit that did not exist in the CLI,
terrible, terrible support, ridiculously overpriced cable assemblies that 
never seemed to really stay seated well even when screwed in.  And the
big one, is that if you hit the thing with a bunch of ICMP traffic (say, some
kiddie at a university doing a “ping -f” to anything beyond the box, like a
dialup user) the box would just panic with an “out of mbufs” message.

They could not give two shits about that one, and it wasn’t fixed in the
lifetime of the equipment at our shop…

Charles

> 
> The practices are the same.  The quality is the same. The names are
> different.
> 
> Nick
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Howard Jones]

On 08/12/2016 22:04, Marco van den Bovenkamp wrote:

I had the same reaction when I first saw a Lannet 3LS some twenty years ago, 
back when the 7500s were king.

'1.28 Gbps of routing performance? WHAT!?'




The good old days of absolutely shocking software testing...
e.g. the Ascend Max software build that never released IPs from the 
assigned client IP pool - 200 user connections later, the helpdesk goes 
crazy. Or the awesome Nortel Baystack bugs where pressing the "wrong" 
key in the "wrong" menu would just crash the whole stack. Both in GA 
firmware. Nortel had a whole selection of similar issues in their errata.


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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Nick Hilliard]

Gert Doering wrote:
> And vendors that actually cared what their users asked for (at least
> if you offered some money as bait).  And understood protocol specs.

URTROLL

I still, ironically, have a Xylogics T shirt buried away somewhere
because of the rage they caused me a very, very long time ago indeed.
No indication about caring.  No understanding of how a protocol should
work. Basic bugs.  Awful, the lot of it.

The practices are the same.  The quality is the same. The names are
different.

Nick
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[James Bensley]

On 8 December 2016 at 16:42, Ryan L  wrote:
> It's a source of anxiety for me these days.
>
> Generally means no patching has occurred and likely vulnerabilities gone
> unaddressed. ;)
>
> Can barely keep up anymore.
>
> 10 years is impressive though. That's like a hundred in switch years.

Its impressive the switch didn't crash but beyond that I also agree it
just makes me nervous. These days I'm almost driving for less uptime;
in little setups I'm having N+1, N+2, N+N devices so that I can
upgrade them (and thus reboot) with zero impact like every 6-12 months
max, to keep up to date with bug fixes and security wholes. Until/if
we reach the day we master ISSU I see uptime as a "bad thing" (this is
probably a reflection more on the vendor).

Cheers,
James.
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Marco van den Bovenkamp]

I had the same reaction when I first saw a Lannet 3LS some twenty years ago, 
back when the 7500s were king.

'1.28 Gbps of routing performance? WHAT!?' 

On December 8, 2016 10:29:01 PM CET, Nick Cutting <ncutt...@edgetg.com> wrote:
>The day I got my hands on a 3550, when I was new to networking - and I
>thought we will never ever need routers again ! Removed all our routers
>living on sticks 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of
>Mattias Gyllenvarg
>Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 6:46 AM
>To: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
>Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days
>
>Dear All
>
>10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first
>ISP (ispA).
>
>On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate
>to a Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.
>
>A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into
>and became ispC for whom I worked for several years.
>
>After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring
>ispA.
>
>During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power
>interruptions.
>Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node
>boasting an up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.
>
>I fear I will never beat this record in my career.
>
>To the old gear!
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Steve Mikulasik]

That reminds me of this comic http://i.imgur.com/FEiAgxh.gif




-Original Message-
From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Gert 
Doering
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 2:36 PM
To: Nick Cutting <ncutt...@edgetg.com>
Cc: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 09:29:01PM +, Nick Cutting wrote:
> The day I got my hands on a 3550, when I was new to networking - and I 
> thought we will never ever need routers again ! Removed all our 
> routers living on sticks

Yeah, the 3750 we bought "because it can do v6!".  

And then I discovered that it can neither do v6, nor netflow, nor counters on 
SVIs.  Spent the rest of its life as too-expensive L2 switch, and fortunately 
died a few years later (after a much shorter lifespan than normal Cisco gear, 
so it wasn't even built properly).

gert
--
USENET is *not* the non-clickable part of WWW!
   
http:www.muc.de/~gert/
Gert Doering - Munich, Germany g...@greenie.muc.de
fax: +49-89-35655025g...@net.informatik.tu-muenchen.de

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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 09:29:01PM +, Nick Cutting wrote:
> The day I got my hands on a 3550, when I was new to networking - and I 
> thought we will never ever need routers again ! Removed all our routers 
> living on sticks 

Yeah, the 3750 we bought "because it can do v6!".  

And then I discovered that it can neither do v6, nor netflow, nor counters
on SVIs.  Spent the rest of its life as too-expensive L2 switch, and
fortunately died a few years later (after a much shorter lifespan than
normal Cisco gear, so it wasn't even built properly).

gert
-- 
USENET is *not* the non-clickable part of WWW!
   //www.muc.de/~gert/
Gert Doering - Munich, Germany g...@greenie.muc.de
fax: +49-89-35655025g...@net.informatik.tu-muenchen.de


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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Nick Cutting]

The day I got my hands on a 3550, when I was new to networking - and I thought 
we will never ever need routers again ! Removed all our routers living on 
sticks 

-Original Message-
From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Mattias 
Gyllenvarg
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 6:46 AM
To: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

Dear All

10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP (ispA).

On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to a 
Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.

A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and became 
ispC for whom I worked for several years.

After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.

During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power 
interruptions.
Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting an 
up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.

I fear I will never beat this record in my career.

To the old gear!
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 05:09:09PM +, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> 10 years is impressive, but I don't miss the "old days".  They were the
> days of too little bandwidth and crashing daemons, of immature protocol
> standards and rubbish implementations, of too little ram, trash cpus and
> underspecced fiber gear, all costing too much money.  

And vendors that actually cared what their users asked for (at least
if you offered some money as bait).  And understood protocol specs.

Nowadays?  "No other customer ever asked for that"

Yes, there might have been more bugs in basic stuff, but people cared
about making that stuff work.  Now, all you get is "more shiny" (and
more insane list prices so you could get more impressive discounts).

gert
   not bitter, but quite annoyed

-- 
USENET is *not* the non-clickable part of WWW!
   //www.muc.de/~gert/
Gert Doering - Munich, Germany g...@greenie.muc.de
fax: +49-89-35655025g...@net.informatik.tu-muenchen.de


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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Justin M. Streiner]

...and we had to route packets uphill through 5 feet of snow - both ways! 
:)


jms
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Nick Hilliard]

Ryan L wrote:
> It's a source of anxiety for me these days.
> 
> Generally means no patching has occurred and likely vulnerabilities gone
> unaddressed. ;)
> 
> Can barely keep up anymore.
> 
> 10 years is impressive though. That's like a hundred in switch years.

10 years is impressive, but I don't miss the "old days".  They were the
days of too little bandwidth and crashing daemons, of immature protocol
standards and rubbish implementations, of too little ram, trash cpus and
underspecced fiber gear, all costing too much money.  Of staying up too
late night after night because things would fall over if you didn't, of
leased lines and of stupid telcos trying to stop any innovation beyond
ISDN.  Of ATM, frame relay, X.25 and V.35 and anything which looked like
a modem.  Of Windows 3.11 and versions of Linux which couldn't handle
arp to save their life and of having to rebuild SunOS4 libresolv because
the standard version was so horribly broken.  Of sendmail and SLIP and
INN on machines with not enough disk space. And X.400.  I will stop
there because OSI was so bad that I don't want to remember any more
right now.

If anyone is interested in a celebratory bonfire of these horrors, count
me in so I can grimly stamp on the ashes.

Not bitter.

Nick

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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Ryan L]

It's a source of anxiety for me these days.

Generally means no patching has occurred and likely vulnerabilities gone
unaddressed. ;)

Can barely keep up anymore.

10 years is impressive though. That's like a hundred in switch years.

On Dec 8, 2016 11:09 AM, "Scott Granados" <sc...@granados-llc.net> wrote:

That’s so true.  I had old Sun equipment with multi year uptime numbers.  I
remember when uptime was a real bragging point among admins.:)


> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:06 AM, Steve Mikulasik <steve.mikula...@civeo.com>
wrote:
>
> Make sure you tell all the young techs "They don't make 'em like they
used to!"
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of
Mattias Gyllenvarg
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 4:46 AM
> To: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
> Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days
>
> Dear All
>
> 10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP
(ispA).
>
> On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to
a Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.
>
> A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and
became ispC for whom I worked for several years.
>
> After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.
>
> During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power
interruptions.
> Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting
an up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.
>
> I fear I will never beat this record in my career.
>
> To the old gear!
> ___
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mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Scott Granados]

That’s so true.  I had old Sun equipment with multi year uptime numbers.  I 
remember when uptime was a real bragging point among admins.:)


> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:06 AM, Steve Mikulasik <steve.mikula...@civeo.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Make sure you tell all the young techs "They don't make 'em like they used 
> to!"
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of 
> Mattias Gyllenvarg
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 4:46 AM
> To: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
> Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days
> 
> Dear All
> 
> 10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP 
> (ispA).
> 
> On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to a 
> Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.
> 
> A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and 
> became ispC for whom I worked for several years.
> 
> After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.
> 
> During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power 
> interruptions.
> Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting an 
> up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.
> 
> I fear I will never beat this record in my career.
> 
> To the old gear!
> ___
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> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Steve Mikulasik]

Make sure you tell all the young techs "They don't make 'em like they used to!"


-Original Message-
From: cisco-nsp [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Mattias 
Gyllenvarg
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 4:46 AM
To: cisco-nsp <cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net>
Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

Dear All

10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP (ispA).

On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to a 
Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.

A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and became 
ispC for whom I worked for several years.

After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.

During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power 
interruptions.
Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting an 
up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.

I fear I will never beat this record in my career.

To the old gear!
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Re: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[adamv0025]

> Mattias Gyllenvarg
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:46 AM
> To: cisco-nsp
> Subject: [c-nsp] Ode to the old days
> 
> Dear All
> 
> 10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP
> (ispA).
> 
> On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to
a
> Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.
> 
> A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and
became
> ispC for whom I worked for several years.
> 
> After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.
> 
> During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power
> interruptions.
> Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting
an
> up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.
> 
> I fear I will never beat this record in my career.
> 
> To the old gear!

Hi Mattias,

That's an amazing story.
Makes me feel melancholic though.

Note: Tangent warning
I miss the good old times very much, engineers back then had to do so much
with such a little forcing them to come up with brilliant ideas and
engineering solutions.
I feel like the less we are constrained, due to growing abundance of CPU
power, RAM space and resulting features, the more we are losing this
"engineering edge".

Fortunately there are still some areas pushing the envelope like:
NPU design/routers' internal architecture, Massively Scalable Data Centre
designs, HFT networks, ...

adam


netconsultings.com
::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry::


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[c-nsp] Ode to the old days

[Mattias Gyllenvarg]

Dear All

10year 4weeks 6days and about 11hours ago I was working for my first ISP
(ispA).

On that day I put a 3560-24TS into production as a device to terminate to a
Metronet running OSPF/BGP och public IP space.

A few years later I started consulting for ispB who later split into and
became ispC for whom I worked for several years.

After this I ventured into a smaller ISP (ispD) that was acquiring ispA.

During that time that 3560 has been working without issue or power
interruptions.
Today, that it was replaced to add MPLS capabilities to the node boasting
an up-time of 10 years 4 weeks 6 days and 11 hours.

I fear I will never beat this record in my career.

To the old gear!
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