Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lelio Fulgenzi]

I was thinking about getting some of those ZTE cellular to analog adapters. 
Getting a cheap pay as you go service and voila. Instant service, no wires. 
There’d need to be some voltage work to tap into the pole electricity, but for 
the most part, it should work. Depending on your carrier and PSALI services, 
you might even be able to get a location stored somewhere.

Lelio


[cid:image001.jpg@01D81CD5.DDC70890]

From: Tim Reimers 
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 8:00 PM
To: Lelio Fulgenzi ; cisco-voip 
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to 
ith...@uoguelph.ca<mailto:ith...@uoguelph.ca>

We have essentially the same issue Lelio.

I just had to tone out three lines from a 10-story building to the basement for 
three new elevator lines.

And I get Lisa's concern, AT&T is telling us as well that they're phasing out 
copper service.

They seem to think we'll buy $150.00 internet service so that we can get a sip 
device to provide analog dial tone to some piece of hardware that needs it.

Like Lisa we have places where the call box is nowhere near where Internet 
would be or any possible use for Internet.

Tim

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 5:45 PM Lelio Fulgenzi 
mailto:le...@uoguelph.ca>> wrote:
We have our own copper plant and feed all our emergency type phones and call 
boxes from our emergency PBX.  It was a necessary addition during our migration 
from our old PBX to VoIP.  It has remained.  It just had its battery plant 
replaced. It’s supposed to stay alive for 12 hours.  Plenty of time to take 
care of evacuating places I think.

If we were ever required to replace it with traditional(?) VoIP it would have 
to be with an isolated router and analog gateway solution with SRST. We’d have 
to place similar analog sets at out campus police station to ensure they would 
still be able to contact them.  The isolated pod would need to have a stack of 
UPS and battery extenders to ensure long life during power outage. Although I’m 
not certain whether additional ups batteries give you more load capacity or 
more duration. 🤔

I did a proof of concept once, two 3900 series routers with SRST and HSRP and 
it worked great.  A couple of short ‘heartbeat’ cable between the routers 
ensured no split brain.

I once found a relay controlled 24 port patch panel that would have made an 
excellent addition to the fault tolerant design. Could never figure out though 
how to wire it up though.



Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 4, 2022, at 1:07 PM, Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to 
ith...@uoguelph.ca<mailto:ith...@uoguelph.ca>

Hello –

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a safety app that 
students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put the onus of safety 
on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.

This is complicated for Higher Ed.

Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning all 
copper?

Thanks,

Lisa

Lisa Notarianni
University of Scranton
Telecommunications Engineer
Infrastructure Services
800 Linden St.
Scranton PA 18510
570.941.4325

___

Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lelio Fulgenzi]

Interesting story. We were called in to participate in a planning meeting where 
our security office was about to order a new mini telephone system for all 
elevators on campus.

And I’m all, wait, what?

So at the meeting, I asked that we discuss the issues surrounding the move to 
get a new $150,000 mini telephone system, and I wanted to opportunity to fix it 
first.

Turns out, the replaced elevator phone equipment with multiplexors to save 
money and these multiplexors do a self test which triggers a call because we 
had plar enabled on the pbx.

Disabling plar on the pbx and putting the destination on the elevator phone 
multiplexor fixed the problem.

They were <- this -> close to signing the P.O.



From: cisco-voip  On Behalf Of Tim Reimers
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 8:04 PM
To: Lisa Notarianni 
Cc: Charles Goldsmith ; cisco-voip 
Subject: Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to 
ith...@uoguelph.ca<mailto:ith...@uoguelph.ca>

What we've discovered here in North Carolina is that evidently the elevators at 
least are being replaced by some sort of onboard video system that uses 
Ethernet and Internet connectivity provided by you the building owner.

However it does apparently use dial tone to start the conversation and then the 
elevator assistance company can video back into check out what's going on in 
the elevator.

I have not seen anywhere that North Carolina department of Labor has changed 
the regulations on what is allowable for elevator and other safety dial tone.

And yet as we've all heard Carrier seem to be abandoning analog dial tone from 
the central office as quick as they possibly can.

And as I said in another response to this thread I have no intention of buying 
$150 a month internet service for a blue box in a parking deck.

Nor do I want to backhaul sip or skinny dial tone from the parking deck across 
multiple l2 l3 intersections in my network and provide full fault tolerance on 
all of them until I hit my ISP.

And while I haven't had discussions with the city's legal department I suspect 
their liability response would look a lot like Lisa's...

Tim

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 3:03 PM Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:
Corrected…


On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:44 PM, Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:

Verizon owns the copper. We have multiple demarcations. About 1 per building 
and about 70 buildings. We had a discussion with them yesterday and they said 
they’re moving away from copper.


On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:w...@woka.us>> wrote:

Lisa, is it your copper or Verizons?  If Verizon is removed, can you re-use the 
copper for analog phones and use VG's?

That would probably be the most cost effective way to transition.  Dropping 
ethernet is the next option and not cost effective as. you've stated.

The other thing you could go with is wireless phones, but securing redundant 
power may not be cost effective either, plus ensuring that your wireless 
coverage has redundant power.

Sometimes you just have to keep things simple and stick with analog, as bad as 
many of us detest it.

Good luck!
Charles


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:09 PM Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:
Hello –

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have co

Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Tim Reimers]

What we've discovered here in North Carolina is that evidently the
elevators at least are being replaced by some sort of onboard video system
that uses Ethernet and Internet connectivity provided by you the building
owner.

However it does apparently use dial tone to start the conversation and then
the elevator assistance company can video back into check out what's going
on in the elevator.

I have not seen anywhere that North Carolina department of Labor has
changed the regulations on what is allowable for elevator and other safety
dial tone.

And yet as we've all heard Carrier seem to be abandoning analog dial tone
from the central office as quick as they possibly can.

And as I said in another response to this thread I have no intention of
buying $150 a month internet service for a blue box in a parking deck.

Nor do I want to backhaul sip or skinny dial tone from the parking deck
across multiple l2 l3 intersections in my network and provide full fault
tolerance on all of them until I hit my ISP.

And while I haven't had discussions with the city's legal department I
suspect their liability response would look a lot like Lisa's...

Tim

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 3:03 PM Lisa Notarianni 
wrote:

> Corrected…
>
> On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:44 PM, Lisa Notarianni 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Verizon owns the copper. We have multiple demarcations. About 1 per
> building and about 70 buildings. We had a discussion with them yesterday
> and they said they’re moving away from copper.
>
> On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Charles Goldsmith  wrote:
>
> 
> Lisa, is it your copper or Verizons?  If Verizon is removed, can you
> re-use the copper for analog phones and use VG's?
>
> That would probably be the most cost effective way to transition.
> Dropping ethernet is the next option and not cost effective as. you've
> stated.
>
> The other thing you could go with is wireless phones, but securing
> redundant power may not be cost effective either, plus ensuring that your
> wireless coverage has redundant power.
>
> Sometimes you just have to keep things simple and stick with analog, as
> bad as many of us detest it.
>
> Good luck!
> Charles
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:09 PM Lisa Notarianni <
> lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hello –
>>
>>
>>
>> We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others
>> have done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog
>> lines on campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator
>> lines, house phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some
>> areas so we just kept the analog service running.
>>
>>
>>
>> The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our
>> premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost
>> on campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority
>> of lines away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with
>> safety if we provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed
>> this by General Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this
>> service for the same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from
>> what I understand Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we
>> transition to their VoIP service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that
>> since they rely on our power. So, we would just switch to VoIP if we were
>> to do that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or
>> parking lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address
>> this, we really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to
>> accommodate LTE service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the
>> need for this equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a
>> safety app that students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put
>> the onus of safety on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is complicated for Higher Ed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning
>> all copper?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>> *Lisa Notarianni*
>>
>> University of Scranton
>>
>> Telecommunications Engineer
>>
>> Infrastructure Services
>>
>> 800 Linden St.
>>
>> Scranton PA 18510
>>
>> 570.941.4325
>>
>>
>> ___
>> cisco-voip mailing list
>> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>> 
>>
> ___
> cisco-voip mailing 

Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Tim Reimers]

We have essentially the same issue Lelio.

I just had to tone out three lines from a 10-story building to the basement
for three new elevator lines.

And I get Lisa's concern, AT&T is telling us as well that they're phasing
out copper service.

They seem to think we'll buy $150.00 internet service so that we can get a
sip device to provide analog dial tone to some piece of hardware that needs
it.

Like Lisa we have places where the call box is nowhere near where Internet
would be or any possible use for Internet.

Tim

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 5:45 PM Lelio Fulgenzi  wrote:

> We have our own copper plant and feed all our emergency type phones and
> call boxes from our emergency PBX.  It was a necessary addition during our
> migration from our old PBX to VoIP.  It has remained.  It just had its
> battery plant replaced. It’s supposed to stay alive for 12 hours.  Plenty
> of time to take care of evacuating places I think.
>
> If we were ever required to replace it with traditional(?) VoIP it would
> have to be with an isolated router and analog gateway solution with SRST.
> We’d have to place similar analog sets at out campus police station to
> ensure they would still be able to contact them.  The isolated pod would
> need to have a stack of UPS and battery extenders to ensure long life
> during power outage. Although I’m not certain whether additional ups
> batteries give you more load capacity or more duration. 🤔
>
> I did a proof of concept once, two 3900 series routers with SRST and HSRP
> and it worked great.  A couple of short ‘heartbeat’ cable between the
> routers ensured no split brain.
>
> I once found a relay controlled 24 port patch panel that would have made
> an excellent addition to the fault tolerant design. Could never figure out
> though how to wire it up though.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 4, 2022, at 1:07 PM, Lisa Notarianni 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph.
> Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know the content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to
> ith...@uoguelph.ca
>
> Hello –
>
>
>
> We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others
> have done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog
> lines on campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator
> lines, house phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some
> areas so we just kept the analog service running.
>
>
>
> The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our
> premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost
> on campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority
> of lines away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with
> safety if we provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed
> this by General Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this
> service for the same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from
> what I understand Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we
> transition to their VoIP service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that
> since they rely on our power. So, we would just switch to VoIP if we were
> to do that.
>
>
>
> I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or
> parking lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address
> this, we really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to
> accommodate LTE service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the
> need for this equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a
> safety app that students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put
> the onus of safety on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.
>
>
>
> This is complicated for Higher Ed.
>
>
>
> Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning
> all copper?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> *Lisa Notarianni*
>
> University of Scranton
>
> Telecommunications Engineer
>
> Infrastructure Services
>
> 800 Linden St.
>
> Scranton PA 18510
>
> 570.941.4325
>
>
> ___
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>
> ___
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>
___
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lelio Fulgenzi]

We have our own copper plant and feed all our emergency type phones and call 
boxes from our emergency PBX.  It was a necessary addition during our migration 
from our old PBX to VoIP.  It has remained.  It just had its battery plant 
replaced. It’s supposed to stay alive for 12 hours.  Plenty of time to take 
care of evacuating places I think.

If we were ever required to replace it with traditional(?) VoIP it would have 
to be with an isolated router and analog gateway solution with SRST. We’d have 
to place similar analog sets at out campus police station to ensure they would 
still be able to contact them.  The isolated pod would need to have a stack of 
UPS and battery extenders to ensure long life during power outage. Although I’m 
not certain whether additional ups batteries give you more load capacity or 
more duration. 🤔

I did a proof of concept once, two 3900 series routers with SRST and HSRP and 
it worked great.  A couple of short ‘heartbeat’ cable between the routers 
ensured no split brain.

I once found a relay controlled 24 port patch panel that would have made an 
excellent addition to the fault tolerant design. Could never figure out though 
how to wire it up though.



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2022, at 1:07 PM, Lisa Notarianni  
wrote:



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to ith...@uoguelph.ca

Hello –

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a safety app that 
students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put the onus of safety 
on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.

This is complicated for Higher Ed.

Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning all 
copper?

Thanks,

Lisa

Lisa Notarianni
University of Scranton
Telecommunications Engineer
Infrastructure Services
800 Linden St.
Scranton PA 18510
570.941.4325

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Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Brian Meade]

I'm seeing a lot of providers trying to remove true analog copper and put
their customers on SIP services with devices on-site to convert back to
copper.  Probably worth just putting in some VG450's at that point and they
can run off 48V DC as well.

I know Phybridge also has some devices for doing PoE/Voice over a single
pair of CAT3 that I've used for campuses before if you want to go VoIP to
some of the call box devices.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 1:09 PM Lisa Notarianni 
wrote:

> Hello –
>
>
>
> We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others
> have done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog
> lines on campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator
> lines, house phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some
> areas so we just kept the analog service running.
>
>
>
> The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our
> premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost
> on campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority
> of lines away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with
> safety if we provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed
> this by General Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this
> service for the same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from
> what I understand Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we
> transition to their VoIP service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that
> since they rely on our power. So, we would just switch to VoIP if we were
> to do that.
>
>
>
> I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or
> parking lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address
> this, we really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to
> accommodate LTE service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the
> need for this equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a
> safety app that students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put
> the onus of safety on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.
>
>
>
> This is complicated for Higher Ed.
>
>
>
> Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning
> all copper?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> *Lisa Notarianni*
>
> University of Scranton
>
> Telecommunications Engineer
>
> Infrastructure Services
>
> 800 Linden St.
>
> Scranton PA 18510
>
> 570.941.4325
>
>
> ___
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>
___
cisco-voip mailing list
cisco-voip@puck.nether.net
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Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lisa Notarianni]

Corrected…

On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:44 PM, Lisa Notarianni  
wrote:


Verizon owns the copper. We have multiple demarcations. About 1 per building 
and about 70 buildings. We had a discussion with them yesterday and they said 
they’re moving away from copper.

On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Charles Goldsmith  wrote:


Lisa, is it your copper or Verizons?  If Verizon is removed, can you re-use the 
copper for analog phones and use VG's?

That would probably be the most cost effective way to transition.  Dropping 
ethernet is the next option and not cost effective as. you've stated.

The other thing you could go with is wireless phones, but securing redundant 
power may not be cost effective either, plus ensuring that your wireless 
coverage has redundant power.

Sometimes you just have to keep things simple and stick with analog, as bad as 
many of us detest it.

Good luck!
Charles


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:09 PM Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:
Hello –

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a safety app that 
students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put the onus of safety 
on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.

This is complicated for Higher Ed.

Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning all 
copper?

Thanks,

Lisa

Lisa Notarianni
University of Scranton
Telecommunications Engineer
Infrastructure Services
800 Linden St.
Scranton PA 18510
570.941.4325

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Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lisa Notarianni]

Verizon owns the copper. We have maultie demarcations. About 1 per building and 
about 70 buildings. We had a discussion with them yesterday and they said 
they’re moving away from copper.

On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Charles Goldsmith  wrote:


Lisa, is it your copper or Verizons?  If Verizon is removed, can you re-use the 
copper for analog phones and use VG's?

That would probably be the most cost effective way to transition.  Dropping 
ethernet is the next option and not cost effective as. you've stated.

The other thing you could go with is wireless phones, but securing redundant 
power may not be cost effective either, plus ensuring that your wireless 
coverage has redundant power.

Sometimes you just have to keep things simple and stick with analog, as bad as 
many of us detest it.

Good luck!
Charles


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:09 PM Lisa Notarianni 
mailto:lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu>> wrote:
Hello –

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a safety app that 
students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put the onus of safety 
on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.

This is complicated for Higher Ed.

Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning all 
copper?

Thanks,

Lisa

Lisa Notarianni
University of Scranton
Telecommunications Engineer
Infrastructure Services
800 Linden St.
Scranton PA 18510
570.941.4325

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Re: [cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Charles Goldsmith]

Lisa, is it your copper or Verizons?  If Verizon is removed, can you re-use
the copper for analog phones and use VG's?

That would probably be the most cost effective way to transition.  Dropping
ethernet is the next option and not cost effective as. you've stated.

The other thing you could go with is wireless phones, but securing
redundant power may not be cost effective either, plus ensuring that your
wireless coverage has redundant power.

Sometimes you just have to keep things simple and stick with analog, as bad
as many of us detest it.

Good luck!
Charles


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 12:09 PM Lisa Notarianni <
lisa.notaria...@scranton.edu> wrote:

> Hello –
>
>
>
> We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others
> have done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog
> lines on campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator
> lines, house phones etc…  We also don’t have network cable runs in some
> areas so we just kept the analog service running.
>
>
>
> The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our
> premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost
> on campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority
> of lines away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with
> safety if we provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed
> this by General Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this
> service for the same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from
> what I understand Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we
> transition to their VoIP service but it wouldn’t make sense to do that
> since they rely on our power. So, we would just switch to VoIP if we were
> to do that.
>
>
>
> I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or
> parking lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address
> this, we really don’t have funding to replace expensive callboxes to
> accommodate LTE service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the
> need for this equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a
> safety app that students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put
> the onus of safety on the user and their wireless phone – not preferred.
>
>
>
> This is complicated for Higher Ed.
>
>
>
> Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning
> all copper?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> *Lisa Notarianni*
>
> University of Scranton
>
> Telecommunications Engineer
>
> Infrastructure Services
>
> 800 Linden St.
>
> Scranton PA 18510
>
> 570.941.4325
>
>
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[cisco-voip] Copper plant

[Lisa Notarianni]

Hello -

We are planning future projects and would appreciate input on what others have 
done with analog lines.  We currently use Verizon for over 500 analog lines on 
campus.  They provide service to call boxes, alarm lines, elevator lines, house 
phones etc...  We also don't have network cable runs in some areas so we just 
kept the analog service running.

The idea behind all of this was to rely on Verizon Centrex service if our 
premise based VOIP phones or power went down and all phone service was lost on 
campus.  When we transitioned years ago to VoIP and moved the majority of lines 
away from Centrex, our General Counsel felt it would help with safety if we 
provided these phones in case of emergency.  I recently passed this by General 
Counsel and they still feel we need to continue to use this service for the 
same reason.  But I think the clock is ticking and from what I understand 
Verizon is abandoning copper.  They have suggested we transition to their VoIP 
service but it wouldn't make sense to do that since they rely on our power. So, 
we would just switch to VoIP if we were to do that.

I know there is also an LTE option but many callboxes are in fields or parking 
lots and the equipment is dated.  So, on top of needing to address this, we 
really don't have funding to replace expensive callboxes to accommodate LTE 
service.  I know we really need to evaluate and rethink the need for this 
equipment.  We have considered transitioning the funding to a safety app that 
students, staff and faculty can use but again we would put the onus of safety 
on the user and their wireless phone - not preferred.

This is complicated for Higher Ed.

Any solutions or steps anyone has taken?   Is Verizon really abandoning all 
copper?

Thanks,

Lisa

Lisa Notarianni
University of Scranton
Telecommunications Engineer
Infrastructure Services
800 Linden St.
Scranton PA 18510
570.941.4325

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