Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - tutorial 8 and CLJS patch

[Mimmo Cosenza]

Thanks Michael,
hope to mantain myself to your generous judgment.

mimmo (it's my nickname)

 
On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Michael Klishin  
wrote:

> 2012/11/27 Giacomo Cosenza 
> Hope you find it useful 
> 
> Giacomo,
> 
> This is fantastic. I think this may be the most valuable source of 
> information about CLJS
> on the Web.
> 
> We will figure out a way to add ClojureScript content to 
> http://clojure-doc.org, this has to be easier
> to discover.
> -- 
> MK
> 
> http://github.com/michaelklishin
> http://twitter.com/michaelklishin
> 
> 
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Re: Clojure Recursion (loop-recur) Questions

[Andy Fingerhut]

Yes, that wasn't very clear of me.  Here is what I was thinking when writing 
that.

In Scheme, which has general tail-call optimization, you will often find 
functions written where the programmer went out of their way to change it from 
recursive, but doesn't use tail calls, into something that recursive and uses 
tail calls.  There are sections in introductory Scheme books showing how to 
change non-tail-recursive functions into tail-recursive ones, using accumulator 
parameters.

The programmer did this because they wanted to take advantage of tail-call 
optimization and avoid using stack space linear in the depth of recursive 
calls.  This becomes almost natural after a while, and it makes sense -- you 
don't want to use linear stack space for processing long linear data structures 
when you know you could use constant space with a bit more coding effort.

I can't say this authoritatively, but I think it is far less common for 
programmers to go out of their way to change calls to other functions into tail 
calls, if they weren't originally written as tail calls.  Sets of 2 or more 
functions that are mutually recursive are less common than self-recursive ones. 
 I know that there are Scheme programs that take advantage of general tail 
calls to write state machines where each state is a separate function and they 
call each other, and other programs like that, but tail-recursive functions are 
pervasive in Scheme.

Andy

On Nov 27, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Ben Wolfson wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Andy Fingerhut
>  wrote:
>> Clojure's loop/recur only implements tail recursion, not general tail-call
>> optimization.  tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that
>> have it than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions.
> 
> Can you explain this? I'm assuming that "having tail recursion" here
> means not "you can call yourself in tail position" but "calls to
> yourself in tail position don't grow the stack". But I don't really
> follow the second sentence, which seems to have two possible
> continuations:
> 
> (a) tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that have it
> than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions ... is
> used in languages that have tail recursion.
> (b) tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that have it
> than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions ... is
> used in languages that have *it* (i.e. general TCO).
> 
> But in (a), general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions
> couldn't be used very much in those languages; they don't have it. And
> in (b), general TCO subsumes the optimization of tail recursion and
> comes into play whenever a procedure is called from tail position, so
> it would seem to be used pervasively in languages that have general
> TCO.
> 
> -- 
> Ben Wolfson

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Re: Clojure Recursion (loop-recur) Questions

[Ben Wolfson]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Andy Fingerhut
 wrote:
> Clojure's loop/recur only implements tail recursion, not general tail-call
> optimization.  tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that
> have it than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions.

Can you explain this? I'm assuming that "having tail recursion" here
means not "you can call yourself in tail position" but "calls to
yourself in tail position don't grow the stack". But I don't really
follow the second sentence, which seems to have two possible
continuations:

(a) tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that have it
than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions ... is
used in languages that have tail recursion.
(b) tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that have it
than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions ... is
used in languages that have *it* (i.e. general TCO).

But in (a), general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions
couldn't be used very much in those languages; they don't have it. And
in (b), general TCO subsumes the optimization of tail recursion and
comes into play whenever a procedure is called from tail position, so
it would seem to be used pervasively in languages that have general
TCO.

-- 
Ben Wolfson
"Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks,
which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family
and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks
for pleasure." [Larousse, "Drink" entry]

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Re: Clojure Recursion (loop-recur) Questions

[Andy Fingerhut]

On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Curtis wrote:

> Thank you Andy - This was fabulously helpful - I really appreciate your 
> explanation.
> 
> Would you permit me to include your answer in a blog post about the above 
> question?


Sure, use it however you like.

Andy


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Re: help choosing dev environment for clojure

[Chris Ford]

When considering the availability of a debugger, keep in mind that your
workflow might be different when you code Clojure compared to how you
approach Java, Ruby etc.

Because functions require less context to run than methods of an object, I
find that experimenting at the REPL (or rather executing forms within my
editor) a better way to work out what's going on than debugging through an
actual program execution.

Cheers,

Chris

On 28 November 2012 06:43, Phil Hagelberg  wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Walter van der Laan
>  wrote:
> > Stepping through the execution is harder to setup but it might be
> possible.
> > The CDT debugger can be set up as described here
> > http://georgejahad.com/clojure/swank-cdt.html. It worked great for me at
> > some point but I'm no longer using it because doesn't work with openjdk
>
> Swank Clojure is no longer under active development, but for what it's
> worth it has never had any incompatibility issues with OpenJDK.
>
> -Phil
>
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Re: Clojure Recursion (loop-recur) Questions

[Ben Mabey]

On 11/27/12 9:17 PM, Curtis wrote:
Thank you Andy - This was fabulously helpful - I really appreciate 
your explanation.


Would you permit me to include your answer in a blog post about the 
above question?




On Monday, November 19, 2012 6:25:30 PM UTC-8, Andy Fingerhut wrote:

If you are familiar with tail recursion, then loop/recur this is
Clojure's way to achieve tail recursion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call


The general tail call optimization mechanism as implemented in the
programming language Scheme, for example, means that tail-position
calls must not consume additional stack, and must effectively work
like a goto appropriate muddling of stack frames to pass the
parameters to the new function (which might be a recursive call,
or could be to a different function).  Whether the tail call is
recursive or not, the return address of the original calling
function doesn't change after the goto.

Clojure's loop/recur only implements tail recursion, not general
tail-call optimization.  tail recursion is far more commonly used
in languages that have it than the general tail-call optimization
to arbitrary functions.


Specifically on your questions about the return address, suppose
function foo calls function bar, and bar has the loop/recur inside
of it.  At the time when foo first calls bar, it saves a return
address inside of foo so that when bar returns, it continues in
foo just after where the call to bar was.

loop/recur never touches that return address.   It stays there the
whole time.

The loop is effectively a target label for a goto, and one or more
occurrences of recur inside of it simply rebind the loop variable
values, and goot the loop's target label.  Anything deeper down on
the stack is not changed, and there is no pushing or popping of
any return addresses.  Just a goto.


Rich would have liked to implement general tail recursion in
Clojure.  Here are a couple of relevant excerpts from Rich
Hickey's "Clojure for Lispers" talk, transcript here:


http://jafingerhut.github.com/clojure-info/clojure-for-lispers-transcript.txt



Clojure does not have tail call optimization.  Not because I'm against
it.  I'm all for it.  It's something I had to trade off in being on
the JVM.  However, I was just at the JVM languages summit, and tail
call optimization, every language designer who cam up there said "tail
call optimization, tail call optimization".  And they've heard it, and
hopefully it will come in a future VM, hopefully soon.

You've seen
languages... SISC Scheme does tail calls in the JVM, right.  It does
it with this whole other infrastructure.  They're calling scheme is
nothing like Java's, right?  You have to pass additional things, or
trampoline, or whatever.  Clojure does none of that.  Clojure has
pedal to the metal calling conventions that match Java's, so I don't
have tail recursion, because you can't do that unless the JVM does
that.

Andy



On Nov 19, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Curtis wrote:


Clojure Koans - Recursion
(defn recursive-reverse [coll]
   (loop [coll coll
  acc '() ]
  (if (= (count coll) 0)
 acc
(recur (rest coll) (cons (first coll) acc))
  )
   )
)

I struggled with this one for a while - I don’t want to admit it,
but honestly even though i have been coding since I was 16 years
old - there are still many areas where I am rusty or weak.

There is actually a surprising amount of low level concepts
operating in a list recursive reverse in clojure.

  * tail-call recursion
  * accumulator
  * loop construct

I have some questions about how this “special form” loop


 operates
with recur


I think I need to make sure that I always remember the following :

  * the arity of the recur call must match the arity of the loop form
  * recur must be in the tail position.

I’m not sure how this loop / recur mechanism is implemented in
the JVM - I imaging that the binding created by ‘loop’ is
associated with registers that are overwritten as part of the
call to ‘recur’. The documentation says the bindings are rebound
on call of recur in parallel and the execution of recur - is done
in order.

My questions are

  * Is recur causing some kind of local jump after each binding?
  * What happens with the return address?
  * If recur doesn’t consume stack - what is going on with the
return address?
  * Is the return address always the

Re: Clojure Recursion (loop-recur) Questions

[Curtis]

Thank you Andy - This was fabulously helpful - I really appreciate 
your explanation.

Would you permit me to include your answer in a blog post about the above 
question?



On Monday, November 19, 2012 6:25:30 PM UTC-8, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
>
> If you are familiar with tail recursion, then loop/recur this is Clojure's 
> way to achieve tail recursion.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call
>
> The general tail call optimization mechanism as implemented in the 
> programming language Scheme, for example, means that tail-position calls 
> must not consume additional stack, and must effectively work like a goto 
> appropriate muddling of stack frames to pass the parameters to the new 
> function (which might be a recursive call, or could be to a different 
> function).  Whether the tail call is recursive or not, the return address 
> of the original calling function doesn't change after the goto.
>
> Clojure's loop/recur only implements tail recursion, not general tail-call 
> optimization.  tail recursion is far more commonly used in languages that 
> have it than the general tail-call optimization to arbitrary functions.
>
>
> Specifically on your questions about the return address, suppose function 
> foo calls function bar, and bar has the loop/recur inside of it.  At the 
> time when foo first calls bar, it saves a return address inside of foo so 
> that when bar returns, it continues in foo just after where the call to bar 
> was.
>
> loop/recur never touches that return address.   It stays there the whole 
> time.
>
> The loop is effectively a target label for a goto, and one or more 
> occurrences of recur inside of it simply rebind the loop variable values, 
> and goot the loop's target label.  Anything deeper down on the stack is not 
> changed, and there is no pushing or popping of any return addresses.  Just 
> a goto.
>
>
> Rich would have liked to implement general tail recursion in Clojure. 
>  Here are a couple of relevant excerpts from Rich Hickey's "Clojure for 
> Lispers" talk, transcript here:
>
>
> http://jafingerhut.github.com/clojure-info/clojure-for-lispers-transcript.txt
>
> Clojure does not have tail call optimization.  Not because I'm against
> it.  I'm all for it.  It's something I had to trade off in being on
> the JVM.  However, I was just at the JVM languages summit, and tail
> call optimization, every language designer who cam up there said "tail
> call optimization, tail call optimization".  And they've heard it, and
> hopefully it will come in a future VM, hopefully soon.
>
> You've seen
> languages... SISC Scheme does tail calls in the JVM, right.  It does
> it with this whole other infrastructure.  They're calling scheme is
> nothing like Java's, right?  You have to pass additional things, or
> trampoline, or whatever.  Clojure does none of that.  Clojure has
> pedal to the metal calling conventions that match Java's, so I don't
> have tail recursion, because you can't do that unless the JVM does
> that.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Curtis wrote:
>
> Clojure Koans - Recursion
>
> (defn recursive-reverse [coll]
>   (loop [coll coll
>  acc '() ]
>  (if (= (count coll) 0)
> acc
>(recur (rest coll) (cons (first coll) acc))
>  )
>   )
> )
>
> I struggled with this one for a while - I don’t want to admit it, but 
> honestly even though i have been coding since I was 16 years old - there 
> are still many areas where I am rusty or weak.
>
> There is actually a surprising amount of low level concepts operating in a 
> list recursive reverse in clojure.
>
>- tail-call recursion
>- accumulator
>- loop construct
>
> I have some questions about how this “special form”  
> loop
>  operates 
> with recur
>
> I think I need to make sure that I always remember the following :
>
>- the arity of the recur call must match the arity of the loop form
>- recur must be in the tail position.
>
> I’m not sure how this loop / recur mechanism is implemented in the JVM - I 
> imaging that the binding created by ‘loop’ is associated with registers 
> that are overwritten as part of the call to ‘recur’. The documentation says 
> the bindings are rebound on call of recur in parallel and the execution of 
> recur - is done in order.
>
> My questions are
>
>- Is recur causing some kind of local jump after each binding?
>- What happens with the return address? 
>- If recur doesn’t consume stack - what is going on with the return 
>address? 
>- Is the return address always the same for the same recursive call?
>
> More importantly - Is there a chapter in Knuth AOC that could help me with 
> this? Any other resources?  
>
> I feel like I am really missing some context. Am I missing anything 
> obvious, important or insightful?
>
>

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Re: ANN: clj-schema, Schemas For Clojure Maps

[Alex Baranosky]

Hi Stathis,

Thanks for your interestin clj-schema. If you use it and have any feedback
please let me know.

clj-schema is released under the MIT license: http://mit-license.org/

I think TypedClojure is really cool. I'm excited about both approaches
because in general I'm very interested in approaches to coding that help us
ensure that our code works correctly. That said there are some interesting
differences in the approaches:

   - schemas can be used for other things other than validation or type
   checking.


   - schemas are more decoupled from the code.  Say you are reading a map
   out of a file, or get a map returned from another library.  With schemas
   you could easily validate the map.  How would that be handled in a
   TypeClojure approach?  Also, schema validation only checks at a snapshot in
   time; it makes no effort to ensure that that map is always correct.


   - schema validation happens at run-time; TypedClojure is a static
   analysis tool. ( Of course, if there was some kind of adapter for
   TypedClojure it could take schemas as params to the type declarations.)


Alex

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Stathis Sideris  wrote:

> Hello Alex,
>
> This looks very useful, thanks. What's the license under which you are
> releasing this code? Also, I'm wondering whether something like that could
> be the next step for Typed Clojure. From Ambrose's thesis, I got the
> impression that he would like Typed Clojure to eventually cater for
> checking the contents of maps.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stathis
>
>
> On Sunday, 25 November 2012 23:22:04 UTC, Alex Baranosky wrote:
>>
>> Clj-schema is a library for defining and validating schemas for maps, as
>> well as for using those schemas to create valid test data.  We've been
>> using this in production for at least a few months now, at Runa.
>>
>> https://github.com/runa-dev/**clj-schema
>>
>> The main benefits I've found from using this library are:
>> * validating the inputs to the application: validating Ring request
>> params and config files
>> * validating before storing maps into the DB
>> * using the clj-schema.fixtures library to create valid test data that
>> stays valid.  So as the standard form of a map changes over time the tests
>> will stay in sync with those changes automatically.
>> * there are some code-readability benefits as well - any developer can
>> pretty quickly see what certain kinds of maps tend to look like.
>>
>> There's more info in the README:
>> https://github.com/runa-dev/**clj-schema/blob/master/README.**md
>>
>> Future possibilities:
>> * auto-generating test data from clj-schema fixtures
>> * being able to create schemas for sets and sequences (currently a schema
>> is always for a map)
>>
>> Contributors welcome.
>>
>> Alex
>>
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Re: Macro not being expanded?

[Ben Wolfson]

ah, ok. thanks.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Stephen Compall
 wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 10:34 -0800, Ben Wolfson wrote:
>> What's going on? Where'd my try* go?
>
> try* isn't general enough to accept some macroexpansions, because list?
> is not the predicate you want.
>
> repl> (->> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3)) (drop 3) first)
> (catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError] e__902__auto__ 6)
> repl> (list? *1)
> false
> repl> (list? '(catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError] 
> e__902__auto__ 6))
> true
> repl> (->> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3)) (drop 3) first class)
> clojure.lang.Cons
>
> quasiquote tends to produce conses.  Compare seq?, sequential?, and
> incubator's seqable? to find the predicate you want.
>
> --
> Stephen Compall
> "^aCollection allSatisfy: [:each | aCondition]": less is better than
>
>
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-- 
Ben Wolfson
"Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks,
which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family
and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks
for pleasure." [Larousse, "Drink" entry]

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Re: Macro not being expanded?

[Stephen Compall]

On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 10:34 -0800, Ben Wolfson wrote:
> What's going on? Where'd my try* go?

try* isn't general enough to accept some macroexpansions, because list?
is not the predicate you want.

repl> (->> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3)) (drop 3) first)
(catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError] e__902__auto__ 6)
repl> (list? *1)
false
repl> (list? '(catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError] 
e__902__auto__ 6))
true
repl> (->> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3)) (drop 3) first class)
clojure.lang.Cons

quasiquote tends to produce conses.  Compare seq?, sequential?, and
incubator's seqable? to find the predicate you want.

-- 
Stephen Compall
"^aCollection allSatisfy: [:each | aCondition]": less is better than


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Defining comparison functions for complex data types

[Mark]

A long time ago, I wrote this simple heap implementation:

https://gist.github.com/4158634

There are a lot of rough edges here. Many of them could be cleaned up (ie, 
replaced with standard library functions) if I could rely on the contents 
of the heap being trivially comparable using < and > methods. However, I'd 
like to be able to put complex data types into my heap, so I need to be 
able to supply comparison logic, potentially even for functions (like 
min-key) that don't allow me to explicitly provide one.

I have the sense that this sort of thing is possible using deftype, 
defrecord, multimethods, or protocols, but I'm having a hard time figuring 
out where to start my education on these topics - there's a lot to know 
about all of this stuff.

Can anyone suggest a place where I can get started?

Thanks!

Mark

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Re: JVM Language survey on InfoQ

[Timothy Washington]

Cool. I just voted. And from the looks of it, Clojure is tracking very
well.

Total number of participants: *432*Option Adoption% of Code in New Language
Votes DetailsScala78%72% 253Heatmap

Clojure78%76% 230Heatmap
 Java
855%60%193 Heatmap  
Groovy76%66% 152Heatmap  
JavaScript82%71%149 Heatmap 
JRuby76%66% 97Heatmap  
Erlang64%62%65 Heatmap  
. ..

Tim Washington
Interruptsoftware.ca


"*Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy
condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness
experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is
only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the
Weather.*" -- Bill Hicks



On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Alex Miller  wrote:

> Using Clojure? Let people know here:
>
> http://www.infoq.com/research/next-jvm-language
>
>

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Re: help choosing dev environment for clojure

[Phil Hagelberg]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Walter van der Laan
 wrote:
> Stepping through the execution is harder to setup but it might be possible.
> The CDT debugger can be set up as described here
> http://georgejahad.com/clojure/swank-cdt.html. It worked great for me at
> some point but I'm no longer using it because doesn't work with openjdk

Swank Clojure is no longer under active development, but for what it's
worth it has never had any incompatibility issues with OpenJDK.

-Phil

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Re: Using a dynamic number of lvars in core.logic.

[David Nolen]

Yep infd's api is a bit annoying - I'd like to change it to match
distinctfd.

David


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Frederik De Bleser
wrote:

> I had some trouble because all goals need to take in the list of lvars.
> `infd` doesn't take in a list, but your sudoku blog post has `all-infd`
> which does the trick:
>
> (defn all-infd
>   "Assign a domain to all vars."
>   [vars domain]
>   (if (seq vars)
> (all
>   (domfd (first vars) domain)
>   (all-infd (next vars) domain))
> succeed))
>
> Which means that `distinct-numbers` can be written as such:
>
> (defn distinct-numbers [n min max]
>   "Generate all combinations of n numbers between min and max."
>   (run* [q]
> (let [vars (repeatedly n lvar)]
>   (all
> (all-infd vars (interval min max))
> (distinctfd vars)
> (== q vars)
>
>
> user=> (distinct-numbers 3 6 8)
> ((6 7 8) (6 8 7) (7 6 8) (7 8 6) (8 6 7) (8 7 6))
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Frederik
>
>>
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Re: Using a dynamic number of lvars in core.logic.

[Frederik De Bleser]

I had some trouble because all goals need to take in the list of lvars. 
`infd` doesn't take in a list, but your sudoku blog post has `all-infd` 
which does the trick:

(defn all-infd 
  "Assign a domain to all vars."
  [vars domain]
  (if (seq vars)
(all
  (domfd (first vars) domain)
  (all-infd (next vars) domain))
succeed))

Which means that `distinct-numbers` can be written as such:

(defn distinct-numbers [n min max]
  "Generate all combinations of n numbers between min and max."
  (run* [q]
(let [vars (repeatedly n lvar)]
  (all
(all-infd vars (interval min max))
(distinctfd vars)
(== q vars)


user=> (distinct-numbers 3 6 8)
((6 7 8) (6 8 7) (7 6 8) (7 8 6) (8 6 7) (8 7 6))

Thanks for the help!

Frederik

>
>

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Re: help choosing dev environment for clojure

[Yves Parès]

Did you look at what vimclojure (+ nailgun server + lein vimclojure plugin) 
currently provides? It doesn't use nrepl yet, but I'd be curious to know 
how its features relate to emacs' clojure plugins, and also how their 
features may be valuable when it comes to working with noir/compojure/ring.
The thing is that thanks to ring's automatic code reload middleware, I 
never felt the need to have a tight integration between the editor and the 
REPL, but as I've been doing Clojure for only 3 months I may be missing 
something.
(I'm also a vimmer considering to start off learning Emacs.)


Le lundi 26 novembre 2012 13:45:19 UTC+1, jaju a écrit :
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 11:08 PM, Laurent PETIT 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> My advice: don't try to learn too much at once. Eclipse+counterclockwise 
>> (and probably Intellij+La Clojure) lets you start right away hacking 
>> clojure. They are specifically designed to be newbie friendly   Postpone 
>> the decision of  becoming an emacs ninja to when you feel ok with clojure 
>> and you feel that you lack customization power (if ever).
>>
>
> Not to take away anything from any other IDE/editor, but I started off on 
> emacs (thanks to Baishampayan) and it's the most natural environment (along 
> with slime/nrepl/ritz++) for clojure! I've been a vimmer all my life, and 
> it's still the best editor to me, but emacs is another world. And learning 
> clojure meant I could easily personalize my emacs config since I had then 
> become a *lot* more comfortable with elisp too - something that stopped 
> me from exploring emacs in my pre-clojure years.
>
> You won't need to be a ninja, but spending a couple of days with someone 
> who has a good emacs setup and is willing to pair/teach will help you tide 
> over almost anything.
>
> -- 
> jaju
>
>  
>

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Re: [cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[David Nolen]

Looks much better than my attempt :)


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Karl Krukow  wrote:

> Yes! Thank you for that link :)
>
> On 27/11/2012, at 22.44, Frank Siebenlist wrote:
>
> > Pls take a look at Bodil's recent project:
> >
> > https://github.com/bodil/cljs-noderepl
> >
> > -FS.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:32 PM, David Nolen  wrote:
> >
> >> It's definitely possible. I've been to meaning to merge some
> experimental work I've done creating a Node.js ClojureScript REPL in hopes
> that some one would be willing to take it further.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Krukow  wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a
> ClojureScript REPL at the moment.
> >>
> >> I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would
> be to create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new
> environment. That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading,
> js-compiling, and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment,
> evaluates the JS in the env and prints the response.
> >>
> >> I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps
> naive) hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism
> to/from the environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from
> what has already been built?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> - Karl
> >>
> >> --
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Re: [cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[Karl Krukow]

Yes! Thank you for that link :)

On 27/11/2012, at 22.44, Frank Siebenlist wrote:

> Pls take a look at Bodil's recent project:
> 
> https://github.com/bodil/cljs-noderepl
> 
> -FS.
> 
> 
> On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:32 PM, David Nolen  wrote:
> 
>> It's definitely possible. I've been to meaning to merge some experimental 
>> work I've done creating a Node.js ClojureScript REPL in hopes that some one 
>> would be willing to take it further.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Krukow  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a 
>> ClojureScript REPL at the moment. 
>> 
>> I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would be to 
>> create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new environment. 
>> That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading, js-compiling, 
>> and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment, evaluates the JS 
>> in the env and prints the response.
>> 
>> I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps naive) 
>> hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism to/from the 
>> environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from what has 
>> already been built?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> - Karl
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: [cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[Frank Siebenlist]

Pls take a look at Bodil's recent project:

https://github.com/bodil/cljs-noderepl

-FS.


On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:32 PM, David Nolen  wrote:

> It's definitely possible. I've been to meaning to merge some experimental 
> work I've done creating a Node.js ClojureScript REPL in hopes that some one 
> would be willing to take it further.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Krukow  wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a 
> ClojureScript REPL at the moment. 
> 
> I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would be to 
> create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new environment. 
> That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading, js-compiling, 
> and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment, evaluates the JS 
> in the env and prints the response.
> 
> I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps naive) 
> hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism to/from the 
> environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from what has 
> already been built?
> 
> Cheers,
> - Karl
> 
> -- 
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Re: [cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[Karl Krukow]

Great! Thanks for your quick reply (again).

I'd certainly love to look at it if you can provide a link.

What do you think about the possibility of creating some protocol for the 
transport needed for a connected repl?

- Karl

On 27/11/2012, at 22.32, David Nolen wrote:

> It's definitely possible. I've been to meaning to merge some experimental 
> work I've done creating a Node.js ClojureScript REPL in hopes that some one 
> would be willing to take it further.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Krukow  wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a 
> ClojureScript REPL at the moment. 
> 
> I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would be to 
> create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new environment. 
> That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading, js-compiling, 
> and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment, evaluates the JS 
> in the env and prints the response.
> 
> I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps naive) 
> hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism to/from the 
> environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from what has 
> already been built?
> 
> Cheers,
> - Karl
> 
> -- 
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Re: [cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[David Nolen]

It's definitely possible. I've been to meaning to merge some experimental
work I've done creating a Node.js ClojureScript REPL in hopes that some one
would be willing to take it further.

David


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Krukow  wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a
> ClojureScript REPL at the moment.
>
> I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would be
> to create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new
> environment. That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading,
> js-compiling, and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment,
> evaluates the JS in the env and prints the response.
>
> I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps naive)
> hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism to/from
> the environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from what has
> already been built?
>
> Cheers,
> - Karl
>
> --
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Re: help choosing dev environment for clojure

[Walter van der Laan]

It is possible to execute forms in a debugging context but AFAIK there is 
no easy setup that allows you to step through the execution.

The easiest way to evaluate forms in context is to setup emacs as described 
here http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/emacs.html. This will allow 
you to set breakpoints by inserting (swank.core/break) as described here 
http://hugoduncan.org/post/2010/swank_clojure_gets_a_break_with_the_local_environment.xhtml.
 
This slime/swank setup is robust and well documented.

nrepl-ritz offers a new way to set up emacs with a debugger. It has just 
been introduced by Hugo Duncan in the Clojure/conj and it works well for 
me. It is described here https://github.com/pallet/ritz/tree/develop/nrepl. 
It brings some functionality that is not available through slime/swank but 
it is not as complete and battle tested. To me the biggest benefit of this 
new setup is the ability to examine the stacktrace on exceptions. It allows 
you to inspect values and evaluate expressions at any point in the 
stacktrace. I find this to be helpful not only for my own errors but also 
for compiler errors because you can often find the expression that the 
compiler is complaining about somewhere in the stacktrace.

Stepping through the execution is harder to setup but it might be possible. 
The CDT debugger can be set up as described here 
http://georgejahad.com/clojure/swank-cdt.html. It worked great for me at 
some point but I'm no longer using it because doesn't work with openjdk 
AFAIK,


On Monday, November 26, 2012 11:15:44 PM UTC+1, Sol Tourne wrote:
>
>
> > In your list, the only thing you won't be able to do with Eclipse is 
> executing clojure forms in the context of the breakpoint. 
>
> Thanks, that's very useful info. 
>
> Is that doable in emacs? (ie 'executing clojure forms in the context of 
> the breakpoint'.) The answers so far emphasize emacs' customisability 
> (which is great) but say nothing about stepping through the execution with 
> a debugger -- is that something that's not doable with emacs?
>
> Generally, thanks everyone for all the advice!
>
>  

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[cljs] Implement transport for a REPL

[Krukow]

Hi,
I have a special non-browser environment which doesn't support a 
ClojureScript REPL at the moment. 

I was wondering if someone has any insight into how much work it would be 
to create an equivalent of the "browser-connected" repl for a new 
environment. That is, I'd like a repl running in the command line, reading, 
js-compiling, and (via some mechanism) sends JS to the other environment, 
evaluates the JS in the env and prints the response.

I don't have any experience building such a thing, but my (perhaps naive) 
hope would be that if only I can provide the transport mechanism to/from 
the environment, most of the additional work could be stolen from what has 
already been built?

Cheers,
- Karl

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Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - tutorial 8 and CLJS patch

[Wes Freeman]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Michael Klishin <
michael.s.klis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is fantastic. I think this may be the most valuable source of
> information about CLJS
> on the Web.
>
> We will figure out a way to add ClojureScript content to
> http://clojure-doc.org, this has to be easier
> to discover.
>

+1

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Re: [ANN] modern-cljs - tutorial 8 and CLJS patch

[Michael Klishin]

2012/11/27 Giacomo Cosenza 

> Hope you find it useful


Giacomo,

This is fantastic. I think this may be the most valuable source of
information about CLJS
on the Web.

We will figure out a way to add ClojureScript content to
http://clojure-doc.org, this has to be easier
to discover.
-- 
MK

http://github.com/michaelklishin
http://twitter.com/michaelklishin

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Re: Clojurescript tests not including non-test source-path

[David Nolen]

Not really, take a look at core.logic's project.clj and try to determine
what's wrong.

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Sean Grove wrote:

> Thanks for the tip!
>
> Sadly, doesn't seem to make any difference - here's the updated
> project.clj and the (same) output:
> https://gist.github.com/c159e76e559f407287ce
>
> SEVERE:
> /Users/sgrove/code/clojure/zenbox/.lein-cljsbuild-compiler-1/zenbox/test/main.js:3:
> ERROR - required "zenbox.main" namespace never provided
> goog.require('zenbox.main');
> ^
>
> zenbox.main is defined in src/cljs/main.cljs:
>
> (ns zenbox.main
>   (:require [domina :as domina]
> [domina.css :as dcss]
> [goog.events :as ge]
> [goog.ui.Component.State]
> [goog.Disposable]
> [goog.ui.Menu]
> [goog.ui.MenuButton]
> [goog.ui.MenuItem]
> [goog.ui.MenuSeparator]
> [goog.ui.PopupMenu]
> [goog.dom :as gd]
> [goog.dom.DomHelper :as gdh]
> [goog.positioning :as gp]
> [zenbox.events :as ze]
> [zenbox.dom :as zd]
> [zenbox.profile-data :as data]
> [zenbox.templates :as templates]
> [zenbox.widget.user-profile :as zup]))
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:24 AM, David Nolen 
> >
> wrote:
> > I think you need to make sure that the cljs files are also on the Lein 2
> > :source-paths
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Sean Grove 
> > >
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been trying to create a simple project with CLJS source and CLJS
> >> tests using lein-cljsbuild 0.2.9, but it doesn't seem to be able to
> >> pick up on the cljs source.
> >>
> >> How can I get the clojurescript tests to compile/run and include the
> >> actual project source?
> >>
> >> The output from running `lein clean && lein cljsbuild test`, the
> >> project.clj, and the relevant cljs files are all here:
> >> https://gist.github.com/31613f73e92212e161bb
> >>
> >> The repo structure is:
> >>
> >> /
> >> |-src
> >> |- -/clj
> >> |- -/cljs
> >> |-  |-main.cljs
> >> |-test
> >> |- - test.cljs
> >> |- -/zenbox
> >> |-  |-test/
> >> |-|-main.cljs
> >>
> >> --
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> >
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ClojureScript One Architecture

[Duraid]

Hi,

I really like the design decisions taken by ClojureScript One and I would 
like use them to build applications at work.

Unfortunately it is not possible to use clojure at work but I'm think of 
using a similar approach with javascript.

In your knowledge what is the javascript framework that is similar to 
ClojureScript One? Backbone, Angular,.. etc?

Is there a library that I can use to perform dispatch/fire/watch?

Thanks 

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Re: Clojurescript tests not including non-test source-path

[Sean Grove]

Thanks for the tip!

Sadly, doesn't seem to make any difference - here's the updated
project.clj and the (same) output:
https://gist.github.com/c159e76e559f407287ce

SEVERE: 
/Users/sgrove/code/clojure/zenbox/.lein-cljsbuild-compiler-1/zenbox/test/main.js:3:
ERROR - required "zenbox.main" namespace never provided
goog.require('zenbox.main');
^

zenbox.main is defined in src/cljs/main.cljs:

(ns zenbox.main
  (:require [domina :as domina]
[domina.css :as dcss]
[goog.events :as ge]
[goog.ui.Component.State]
[goog.Disposable]
[goog.ui.Menu]
[goog.ui.MenuButton]
[goog.ui.MenuItem]
[goog.ui.MenuSeparator]
[goog.ui.PopupMenu]
[goog.dom :as gd]
[goog.dom.DomHelper :as gdh]
[goog.positioning :as gp]
[zenbox.events :as ze]
[zenbox.dom :as zd]
[zenbox.profile-data :as data]
[zenbox.templates :as templates]
[zenbox.widget.user-profile :as zup]))

Any other ideas?

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:24 AM, David Nolen  wrote:
> I think you need to make sure that the cljs files are also on the Lein 2
> :source-paths
>
> David
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Sean Grove  wrote:
>>
>> I've been trying to create a simple project with CLJS source and CLJS
>> tests using lein-cljsbuild 0.2.9, but it doesn't seem to be able to
>> pick up on the cljs source.
>>
>> How can I get the clojurescript tests to compile/run and include the
>> actual project source?
>>
>> The output from running `lein clean && lein cljsbuild test`, the
>> project.clj, and the relevant cljs files are all here:
>> https://gist.github.com/31613f73e92212e161bb
>>
>> The repo structure is:
>>
>> /
>> |-src
>> |- -/clj
>> |- -/cljs
>> |-  |-main.cljs
>> |-test
>> |- - test.cljs
>> |- -/zenbox
>> |-  |-test/
>> |-|-main.cljs
>>
>> --
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>
>
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Re: Current status of Clojure on Android?

[Paul deGrandis]

Curtis,

I have successful built a ClojureScript app that uses SL4A (Rhino).  The 
startup time is an issue, the performance isn't great but is acceptable.  
If you're just prototyping something or need a tool for in-house use - this 
is one alternative.
Given the work and efforts that Cesar highlighted, you might be better off 
with straight Clojure.

Depending on the requirements of your app, you might also consider an HTML5 
client-side application, and rely upon CSS functionality for graphical 
support.  This would free you from Java, enable you to use ClojureScript, 
and comes with a lot of tooling support (and flexibility).

Regards,
Paul

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Re: Clojurescript tests not including non-test source-path

[David Nolen]

I think you need to make sure that the cljs files are also on the Lein 2
:source-paths

David


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Sean Grove  wrote:

> I've been trying to create a simple project with CLJS source and CLJS
> tests using lein-cljsbuild 0.2.9, but it doesn't seem to be able to
> pick up on the cljs source.
>
> How can I get the clojurescript tests to compile/run and include the
> actual project source?
>
> The output from running `lein clean && lein cljsbuild test`, the
> project.clj, and the relevant cljs files are all here:
> https://gist.github.com/31613f73e92212e161bb
>
> The repo structure is:
>
> /
> |-src
> |- -/clj
> |- -/cljs
> |-  |-main.cljs
> |-test
> |- - test.cljs
> |- -/zenbox
> |-  |-test/
> |-|-main.cljs
>
> --
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Clojurescript tests not including non-test source-path

[Sean Grove]

I've been trying to create a simple project with CLJS source and CLJS
tests using lein-cljsbuild 0.2.9, but it doesn't seem to be able to
pick up on the cljs source.

How can I get the clojurescript tests to compile/run and include the
actual project source?

The output from running `lein clean && lein cljsbuild test`, the
project.clj, and the relevant cljs files are all here:
https://gist.github.com/31613f73e92212e161bb

The repo structure is:

/
|-src
|- -/clj
|- -/cljs
|-  |-main.cljs
|-test
|- - test.cljs
|- -/zenbox
|-  |-test/
|-|-main.cljs

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Re: Current status of Clojure on Android?

[Curtis Gagliardi]

How do you use clojurescript on android?  SL4A?  How does it compare to a 
native app?  I'm looking to try to write an android app but want to avoid 
java, but it sounds like clojure isn't really ready for production on 
android.

On Monday, November 26, 2012 8:14:07 PM UTC-6, Herwig Hochleitner wrote:
>
> 2012/11/26 John Gabriele >
>
>> What are currently the main limitations in creating and running
>> Clojure programs on Android? (Does some limited subset of Clojure
>> work? Does the bytecode that Clojure produces run on Dalvik?)
>>
>
> Clojure on Android is alive and well as far as I'm aware. I'm not 
> currently using it, but last time I checked, even eval, hence the REPL 
> worked. 
> Mr. Solano Gómez pulled that off by dexing the dex utility for use on 
> android.
>
> The main drawback is startup time, which is a couple of seconds on my 
> Galaxy Nexus.
>
> Therefore, and because of portability, I write my current android project 
> in ClojureScript.
>  
>
>> Is it currently possible to write your Android app in Java but then
>> call out to app code written in Clojure?
>>
>
> Same as with Clojure on the JVM. Google's work to making Dalvik compliant 
> really pays off. 
>
> Also: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/clojure-android
>  

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Re: a question for crate and hiccup

[Tero Parviainen]

PPK has numbers for this from a few years 
ago: http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/innerhtml.html
A more recent benchmark: http://andrew.hedges.name/experiments/innerhtml/

There used to be a huge difference in favor of strings + innerHTML, but 
with recent browsers the situation seems to have evened out. 

I did a more or less direct port of Hiccup to ClojureScript last year, 
which also returns strings like the original: 
https://github.com/teropa/hiccups. I haven't really been maintaining it, 
though, so it might take some work to get it running with recent 
ClojureScript versions.


tiistai, 27. marraskuuta 2012 11.57.20 UTC+2 Dave Sann kirjoitti:
>
> I hadn't considered a need to generate html strings on the browser (at 
> least, not for performance).  Do you have any references that demonstrate 
> that it is faster to parse strings than generate dom elements directly with 
> the js dom api. That seems counter-intuitive to me.
>
> D
>
> On Monday, 26 November 2012 01:51:30 UTC+11, Max Penet wrote:
>>
>> Strong +1
>>
>> This is a great idea. 
>> This would allow more flexibility in some corner cases and 
>> prevent unnecessary duplication, not to mention sharing. 
>> Another example: I believe crate compiles templates using the DOM API, 
>> which is often fine, but sometimes you'd want it to do this using raw 
>> strings (when working with a large number of Elements), for performance 
>> reason. This would help to solve such issues.
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:11:09 PM UTC+1, Dave Sann wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would be worth making the effort to separate the hiccup 
>>> rendering from the hiccup generation in these libraries.
>>>
>>> By hiccup generation, I mean constructing data of the form [:tag {:attr 
>>> val} contents] ...
>>> By rendering, I mean
>>>  in the case of hiccup - producing HTML strings
>>>  in the case of crate - directly producing DOM nodes in the browser
>>>
>>> My thought is that this would give a generic set of hiccup data 
>>> generating functions that could be easily used across both libs with 
>>> rendering specific to the environment. 
>>>
>>> I don't generally use the libs in hiccup or crate because they are not 
>>> portable and slightly inconsistent in places - all my hiccup data 
>>> generation code can run on the server or on the browser. It might be good 
>>> to have a core unified set for both...
>>>
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Macro not being expanded?

[Ben Wolfson]

Sometimes I want to do the same thing for multiple classes of
exceptions without writing very similar catch clauses repeatedly, so I
wrote a macro:

(defmacro try*
  "Exactly like try, except that catch statements can contain a
   sequence of exception-types which should all be handled in the same
   way. E.g.:

   (try* expr1 expr2
  (catch ArithmeticException a-exc ...)
  (catch [Exception AssertionError] e ...)
  (finally ...)"
  [& exprs]
  (letfn [(is-multi-catch? [expr] (sequential? (second expr)))
  (expand-catches [expr] (map (fn [exn-type] (list* 'catch
exn-type (drop 2 expr))) (second expr)))
  (is-postlude? [expr] (and (list? expr) (#{'finally 'catch}
(first expr]
(let [[exprs postlude] (split-with (complement is-postlude?) exprs)
  [catches finally] (split-with (comp #{'catch} first) postlude)
  catches (mapcat #(if (is-multi-catch? %) (expand-catches %)
[%]) catches)]
 ;; kick errors down to core try
  `(try ~@exprs
~@catches
~@finally

This seems to work fine.

But it *doesn't* work inside a different macro:

user> (defmacro g [& forms] `(try* ~@forms (catch [Exception
AssertionError] e# 6)))
#'user/g
user> (g  2 3)
; Evaluation aborted
with the error: Unable to resolve classname: [java.lang.Exception
java.lang.AssertionError]

These macroexpansions are as expected:

user> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3))
(user/try* 2 3 (catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError]
e__45530__auto__ 6))
user> (macroexpand-1 '(user/try* 2 3 (catch [java.lang.Exception
java.lang.AssertionError] e__45530__auto__ 6)))
(try 2 3 (catch java.lang.Exception e__45530__auto__ 6) (catch
java.lang.AssertionError e__45530__auto__ 6))

But the second one here (the first is identical to the above) is not:

user> (macroexpand-1 '(g 2 3))
(user/try* 2 3 (catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError]
e__45530__auto__ 6))
user> (macroexpand-1 *1)
(try 2 3 (catch [java.lang.Exception java.lang.AssertionError]
e__45530__auto__ 6))

What's going on? Where'd my try* go?

-- 
Ben Wolfson
"Human kind has used its intelligence to vary the flavour of drinks,
which may be sweet, aromatic, fermented or spirit-based. ... Family
and social life also offer numerous other occasions to consume drinks
for pleasure." [Larousse, "Drink" entry]

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Re: Current status of Clojure on Android?

[John Gabriele]

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:46:44 PM UTC-5, César Piñera wrote:
>
> I put together some notes and hints on how to share Clojure functions with 
> an Android app in Java for the Portland Clojure meetup. 
>
> https://github.com/cesarpinera/TargetAndroid
>
> This looks great. Thanks, César.
 

> Clojure is hard on the device's resources, particularly memory. Also, 
> there's somethings that don't work terribly well with Dalvik, such as 
> concurrency. Still, it works. I would definitely not consider it for a real 
> world product, though.
>
> I see. Thanks again for the info.

---John

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Re: Current status of Clojure on Android?

[John Gabriele]

On Monday, November 26, 2012 9:14:07 PM UTC-5, Herwig Hochleitner wrote:
>
> 2012/11/26 John Gabriele >
>
>> What are currently the main limitations in creating and running
>> Clojure programs on Android? (Does some limited subset of Clojure
>> work? Does the bytecode that Clojure produces run on Dalvik?)
>>
>
> Clojure on Android is alive and well as far as I'm aware. I'm not 
> currently using it, but last time I checked, even eval, hence the REPL 
> worked. 
> Mr. Solano Gómez pulled that off by dexing the dex utility for use on 
> android.
>

Hm. I need to read up on what the dex is, and why one would want to dex it. 
:)
 

> Also: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/clojure-android
>

Oooh, thanks. Did not know about that group.

---John
 

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[ANN] modern-cljs - tutorial 8 and CLJS patch

[Giacomo Cosenza]

Hi all,
I just  published the 8th episode of my series of tutorials on clojurescript. 

https://github.com/magomimmo/modern-cljs/blob/master/doc/tutorial-08.md

In this episode I patched the CLJS compiler to overcome the code duplication 
problem detected in the 7th tutorial. I extended CLJS options map by adding an 
:exclude compiler option that can be valorized as a vector of cljs source 
files/directories to be excluded from compilation. lein-cljsbuild still work 
without any intervention. 

Hope you find it useful 

My best

Mimmo

@david nolen: few days ago I sent the signed CA. Should I wait any confirmation 
to submit the patch to CLJS? 




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Re: Current status of Clojure on Android?

[Cesar Pinera]

I put together some notes and hints on how to share Clojure functions with
an Android app in Java for the Portland Clojure meetup.

https://github.com/cesarpinera/TargetAndroid

Clojure is hard on the device's resources, particularly memory. Also,
there's somethings that don't work terribly well with Dalvik, such as
concurrency. Still, it works. I would definitely not consider it for a real
world product, though.



On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:28 PM, John Gabriele  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the current status of Clojure on Android? That is, for
> creating Android apps in Clojure.
>
> I found this http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Android+Support ,
> but it appears to have been last-updated Feb 2011.
>
> What are currently the main limitations in creating and running
> Clojure programs on Android? (Does some limited subset of Clojure
> work? Does the bytecode that Clojure produces run on Dalvik?)
>
> Is it currently possible to write your Android app in Java but then
> call out to app code written in Clojure?
>
> Thanks!
> ---John
>
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Re: Promise for ClojureScript?

[Frank Siebenlist]

Thanks Max - I can see you have been busy with jayq lately… I'll check it out.

-FS.


On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:05 AM, Max Penet  wrote:

> jayq [1] now supports jQuery deferred API , there are 2 examples of its use 
> with these 2 macros: let-ajax and let-deferred (see the readme).  
> 
> [1] https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq
> 
> On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:51:22 AM UTC+1, FrankS wrote:
> All this call-back stuff drives me crazy in ClojureScript&JS… 
> 
> Unfortunately we do not have a "real" cljs promise yet. 
> 
> There seem to be javascript constructs that promise (pun intended) to do 
> similar things - jQuery has some deferred and promise things. 
> 
> I have no experience with any of those javascript libs, and I cannot find any 
> example in ClojureScript that use those… 
> 
> Any advise/suggestions/pointers/cljs-sample-code? 
> 
> Thanks, FrankS. 
> 

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Re: Promise for ClojureScript?

[Sean Grove]

I've been meaning to write a wrapper around the google closure async
primitives: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/closure-library-discuss/aHjKn7K6O9Q/XmZSK54lc3cJ

Are there any reasons not to, or any libraries that have attempted it already?

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Niel Drummond
 wrote:
> angularjs also has a promise - http://docs.angularjs.org/api/ng.$q
>
> I can vouch for using angularjs with clojurescript (it's much better than
> using jquery in cljs), but haven't got as far as using this API item, though
> I can't imagine that it would be that complicated.
>
> - Niel
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Frank Siebenlist
>  wrote:
>>
>> I've been following the separate discussion-thread about your enhanced
>> Promise effort, and it looks really cool and very useful.
>>
>> Having that also available (next week ;-) ) in clojurescript would be
>> fantastic!
>>
>> -FS.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Stuart Sierra 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I've been working on a promises API with callbacks for Clojure (JVM):
>> > http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Promises
>> >
>> > If I can get buy-in and support for implementing this as a
>> > language-level feature in Clojure, the obvious next step would be to port 
>> > it
>> > to ClojureScript.
>> >
>> > -S
>> >
>>
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JVM Language survey on InfoQ

[Alex Miller]

Using Clojure? Let people know here:

http://www.infoq.com/research/next-jvm-language

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Re: Difference between JVM and CLR when destructuring a lazy sequence

[Frank Failla]

Thank you!


On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 3:04 PM, dmiller  wrote:

> Frank:
>
> Fixed in the master branch (which is 1.5 dev).
> I also created a new branch named clojure-1.4.1 that is still a 1.4
> version, with the the patch.
> Also created binary distribution zip files for the new 1.4.1 release.
> Several other bug fixes included in this update.
>
> -David
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 8:46:01 AM UTC-6, ffailla wrote:
>>
>> Thank you David for looking into this so quickly.  For now I am working
>> around this by not destructuring, but I look forward to the patch.  Thanks.
>>
>> -Frank
>>
>> On Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:41:39 PM UTC-5, dmiller wrote:
>>>
>>> The difference is that the JVM version is correct and the CLR
>>> implementation has a bug.
>>>
>>> I'll fix it in the current branch and try to get a patched 1.4 out as
>>> soon as I can.
>>>
>>>

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Re: Starting a Clojure user group in Budapest

[Gergely Nagy]

Balint Erdi  writes:

> Hey,
>
> I've grown extremely enthusiastic about Clojure (and still growing more and 
> more :) ) and would like to spread the love around here in Budapest, 
> Hungary.
>
> This is to estimate how many people are interested in attending a monthly 
> meetup where we'd have presentations, code dojos, etc, so please raise your 
> hand if you are interested. Possibly also ask around at your 
> workplace/friends so that I can get a fair estimate.

I'd definitely be interested, and with a Clojure-related presentation
coming up at work in february, I'm hoping that a few more collegues will
become enlightened too.

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Re: Docs on standard protocols

[Chas Emerick]

Having a good Java IDE around (e.g. Eclipse or IntelliJ) certainly
helps, though not so much in developing a comprehensive mental model
of how everything fits together.

Some years ago, Chris Houser worked at building static visualizations
of the core Clojure interfaces and abstract implementations, and how
those fed into the concrete implementations of maps, seqs, etc. that
we use daily:

https://github.com/Chouser/clojure-classes/blob/master/graph-w-legend.png

I had similar objectives, but wanted to tie implementation details
(e.g. the Java interfaces that Clojure defined) together with related
functions, and the higher-level concepts that further related those
functions to others, etc.  Add in a dynamic visualization, and you get
Clojure Atlas:

http://www.clojureatlas.com

For example, here's the atlas focused on graph around
PersistentHashMap, the concrete implementation behind e.g. `{:a 1 :b 2}
`:


http://www.clojureatlas.com/org.clojure:clojure:1.4.0?guest=t#clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap

Cheers,

- Chas

On Nov 26, 5:53 pm, Dmitry Groshev  wrote:
> Is there any reference of standard protocols in which one can participate?
> When working with Java code and building bindings to complex Java classes,
> it's sometimes handy to define instances of Seq (for example) for them. But
> it's horribly troublesome to look up protocols in source code every time.
> Can you please point me to appropriate documentation, if such exists?

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Re: ANN: clj-schema, Schemas For Clojure Maps

[Stathis Sideris]

Hello Alex,

This looks very useful, thanks. What's the license under which you are 
releasing this code? Also, I'm wondering whether something like that could 
be the next step for Typed Clojure. From Ambrose's thesis, I got the 
impression that he would like Typed Clojure to eventually cater for 
checking the contents of maps.

Thanks,

Stathis


On Sunday, 25 November 2012 23:22:04 UTC, Alex Baranosky wrote:
>
> Clj-schema is a library for defining and validating schemas for maps, as 
> well as for using those schemas to create valid test data.  We've been 
> using this in production for at least a few months now, at Runa.
>
> https://github.com/runa-dev/clj-schema
>
> The main benefits I've found from using this library are:
> * validating the inputs to the application: validating Ring request params 
> and config files
> * validating before storing maps into the DB
> * using the clj-schema.fixtures library to create valid test data that 
> stays valid.  So as the standard form of a map changes over time the tests 
> will stay in sync with those changes automatically.
> * there are some code-readability benefits as well - any developer can 
> pretty quickly see what certain kinds of maps tend to look like.
>
> There's more info in the README:
> https://github.com/runa-dev/clj-schema/blob/master/README.md
>
> Future possibilities:
> * auto-generating test data from clj-schema fixtures
> * being able to create schemas for sets and sequences (currently a schema 
> is always for a map)
>
> Contributors welcome.
>
> Alex
>

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Re: a question for crate and hiccup

[Dave Sann]

I hadn't considered a need to generate html strings on the browser (at 
least, not for performance).  Do you have any references that demonstrate 
that it is faster to parse strings than generate dom elements directly with 
the js dom api. That seems counter-intuitive to me.

D

On Monday, 26 November 2012 01:51:30 UTC+11, Max Penet wrote:
>
> Strong +1
>
> This is a great idea. 
> This would allow more flexibility in some corner cases and 
> prevent unnecessary duplication, not to mention sharing. 
> Another example: I believe crate compiles templates using the DOM API, 
> which is often fine, but sometimes you'd want it to do this using raw 
> strings (when working with a large number of Elements), for performance 
> reason. This would help to solve such issues.
>
> Max
>
>
> On Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:11:09 PM UTC+1, Dave Sann wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if it would be worth making the effort to separate the hiccup 
>> rendering from the hiccup generation in these libraries.
>>
>> By hiccup generation, I mean constructing data of the form [:tag {:attr 
>> val} contents] ...
>> By rendering, I mean
>>  in the case of hiccup - producing HTML strings
>>  in the case of crate - directly producing DOM nodes in the browser
>>
>> My thought is that this would give a generic set of hiccup data 
>> generating functions that could be easily used across both libs with 
>> rendering specific to the environment. 
>>
>> I don't generally use the libs in hiccup or crate because they are not 
>> portable and slightly inconsistent in places - all my hiccup data 
>> generation code can run on the server or on the browser. It might be good 
>> to have a core unified set for both...
>>
>> thoughts?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Starting a Clojure user group in Budapest

[Balint Erdi]

Hey,

I've grown extremely enthusiastic about Clojure (and still growing more and 
more :) ) and would like to spread the love around here in Budapest, 
Hungary.

This is to estimate how many people are interested in attending a monthly 
meetup where we'd have presentations, code dojos, etc, so please raise your 
hand if you are interested. Possibly also ask around at your 
workplace/friends so that I can get a fair estimate.

Thank you,
Balint

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Re: Promise for ClojureScript?

[Niel Drummond]

angularjs also has a promise - http://docs.angularjs.org/api/ng.$q

I can vouch for using angularjs with clojurescript (it's much better than
using jquery in cljs), but haven't got as far as using this API item,
though I can't imagine that it would be that complicated.

- Niel


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Frank Siebenlist <
frank.siebenl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been following the separate discussion-thread about your enhanced
> Promise effort, and it looks really cool and very useful.
>
> Having that also available (next week ;-) ) in clojurescript would be
> fantastic!
>
> -FS.
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Stuart Sierra 
> wrote:
>
> > I've been working on a promises API with callbacks for Clojure (JVM):
> > http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Promises
> >
> > If I can get buy-in and support for implementing this as a
> language-level feature in Clojure, the obvious next step would be to port
> it to ClojureScript.
> >
> > -S
> >
>
> --
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ANN - Conjure 2.1.1 - Lightweight mocking library

[Alex Baranosky]

Conjure is a lightweight mocking library intended to be used on top of
clojure.test.

We've been using it at Runa for a long time, and it is compatible with all
versions of Clojure from 1.2 to 1.5-beta1.

https://github.com/amitrathore/conjure

Alex

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Re: Promise for ClojureScript?

[Max Penet]

jayq [1] now supports jQuery deferred API , there are 2 examples of its use 
with these 2 macros: let-ajax and let-deferred (see the readme).  

[1] https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:51:22 AM UTC+1, FrankS wrote:
>
> All this call-back stuff drives me crazy in ClojureScript&JS… 
>
> Unfortunately we do not have a "real" cljs promise yet. 
>
> There seem to be javascript constructs that promise (pun intended) to do 
> similar things - jQuery has some deferred and promise things. 
>
> I have no experience with any of those javascript libs, and I cannot find 
> any example in ClojureScript that use those… 
>
> Any advise/suggestions/pointers/cljs-sample-code? 
>
> Thanks, FrankS. 
>
>

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