Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Clojure west videos are going to be released at the break for lunch of the armagedon battle. I hope to live until there :) Have a nice weekend guys ! On Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:08:48 PM UTC-3, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Here I am on my very first post here, finding myself adding to a troll that has gone far beyond what I would have imagine for the clojure google group. First, to Fogus, your book with Chouser is a the perfect start on the road to lisp enlightenment and I am impatient to discover the second edition. Moreover, thank you for your amazingly short, sarcastic (I'm french I like that) and humorous response on this thread, it's really a good laugh in the sequence of overly long responses from and to Cedric (like mine). Once again: You have no idea what you're talking about. That's never stopped him before. Laugh people, laugh, it's really good for your health. Second Devin, I'd love for you to solve P=NP. Really. Save the world and win the million dollars that goes with the solution, you'd have earned it. But If you'll allow me I also would like to imagine that the world could withstand the fact that P might not be equal to NP. Even if it would mean that we wouldn't be able to solve discrete optimization problems in polynomial time. Bummer. Third, pardon my french Cedric but I only have one quote for you. It comes from my former, not so literary cultivated president: Casse toi pauvre con. I don't know if you speak french. If you do not, trust me you don't want me to translate. Last but not the least, I want to add one thing. Lots of my friends would love to visit the US, standing between huge skyscrapers, sitting on a bench the Brooklyn Bridge on the vista and that's only New York... My sister got to do it and it really seems powerful feeling. Me, even if I share those dreams, what I'd love most is to go to a clojure conf, surrounded by all those brilliant clojure people and maybe getting to meet Rich without making a idiot of myself. A big thanks to the guys making clojure events seem to me as inspiring as the sight of Brooklyn Bridge or Lady Liberty. Yes, it's cheesy, but, once again, I am french, we love cheese here. Even if I am dying to see the videos, I'll wait coding some fun stuff in clojure... Cheers. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Regardless of your personal feelings about anyone here, bullying and namecalling directed at mailing list members is off-topic and inappropriate use of the mailing list. Without naming names, I ask anyone who feels tempted to engage in such childish behavior on-list to please refrain from doing so in the future. Thank you. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 5:38 PM, JeremyS jschof...@gmail.com wrote: Here I am on my very first post here, finding myself adding to a troll that has gone far beyond what I would have imagine for the clojure google group. First, to Fogus, your book with Chouser is a the perfect start on the road to lisp enlightenment and I am impatient to discover the second edition. Moreover, thank you for your amazingly short, sarcastic (I'm french I like that) and humorous response on this thread, it's really a good laugh in the sequence of overly long responses from and to Cedric (like mine). Once again: You have no idea what you're talking about. That's never stopped him before. Laugh people, laugh, it's really good for your health. Second Devin, I'd love for you to solve P=NP. Really. Save the world and win the million dollars that goes with the solution, you'd have earned it. But If you'll allow me I also would like to imagine that the world could withstand the fact that P might not be equal to NP. Even if it would mean that we wouldn't be able to solve discrete optimization problems in polynomial time. Bummer. Third, pardon my french Cedric but I only have one quote for you. It comes from my former, not so literary cultivated president: Casse toi pauvre con. I don't know if you speak french. If you do not, trust me you don't want me to translate. Last but not the least, I want to add one thing. Lots of my friends would love to visit the US, standing between huge skyscrapers, sitting on a bench the Brooklyn Bridge on the vista and that's only New York... My sister got to do it and it really seems powerful feeling. Me, even if I share those dreams, what I'd love most is to go to a clojure conf, surrounded by all those brilliant clojure people and maybe getting to meet Rich without making a idiot of myself. A big thanks to the guys making clojure events seem to me as inspiring as the sight of Brooklyn Bridge or Lady Liberty. Yes, it's cheesy, but, once again, I am french, we love cheese here. Even if I am dying to see the videos, I'll wait coding some fun stuff in clojure... Cheers. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Hello Jeremy, 2013/4/6 JeremyS jschof...@gmail.com: Here I am on my very first post here, finding myself adding to a troll that has gone far beyond what I would have imagine for the clojure google group. First, to Fogus, your book with Chouser is a the perfect start on the road to lisp enlightenment and I am impatient to discover the second edition. Moreover, thank you for your amazingly short, sarcastic (I'm french I like that) and humorous response on this thread, it's really a good laugh in the sequence of overly long responses from and to Cedric (like mine). Once again: You have no idea what you're talking about. That's never stopped him before. Laugh people, laugh, it's really good for your health. Second Devin, I'd love for you to solve P=NP. Really. Save the world and win the million dollars that goes with the solution, you'd have earned it. But If you'll allow me I also would like to imagine that the world could withstand the fact that P might not be equal to NP. Even if it would mean that we wouldn't be able to solve discrete optimization problems in polynomial time. Bummer. Third, pardon my french Cedric but I only have one quote for you. It comes from my former, not so literary cultivated president: Casse toi pauvre con. I don't know if you speak french. If you do not, trust me you don't want me to translate. Insults are not appropriate on this mailing list, be they in French, or in English, or in any language. And being in a mood of insulting people, or having felt insulted yourself (or your intelligence, etc.), is not an excuse either. And this kind of insult having been said by the president himself neither ;-). That said, I like to laugh, a lot, but with people, not of people. Don't let my harsh tone refrain you from posting on this mailing list, everyone can make mistakes, me first. Peace, -- Laurent -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
First post, first mistake, ashamed that I am. Big time. I spoke before I thought. No need say more here. On Saturday, April 6, 2013 11:51:26 PM UTC+2, Laurent PETIT wrote: Hello Jeremy, 2013/4/6 JeremyS jsch...@gmail.com javascript:: Here I am on my very first post here, finding myself adding to a troll that has gone far beyond what I would have imagine for the clojure google group. First, to Fogus, your book with Chouser is a the perfect start on the road to lisp enlightenment and I am impatient to discover the second edition. Moreover, thank you for your amazingly short, sarcastic (I'm french I like that) and humorous response on this thread, it's really a good laugh in the sequence of overly long responses from and to Cedric (like mine). Once again: You have no idea what you're talking about. That's never stopped him before. Laugh people, laugh, it's really good for your health. Second Devin, I'd love for you to solve P=NP. Really. Save the world and win the million dollars that goes with the solution, you'd have earned it. But If you'll allow me I also would like to imagine that the world could withstand the fact that P might not be equal to NP. Even if it would mean that we wouldn't be able to solve discrete optimization problems in polynomial time. Bummer. Third, pardon my french Cedric but I only have one quote for you. It comes from my former, not so literary cultivated president: Casse toi pauvre con. I don't know if you speak french. If you do not, trust me you don't want me to translate. Insults are not appropriate on this mailing list, be they in French, or in English, or in any language. And being in a mood of insulting people, or having felt insulted yourself (or your intelligence, etc.), is not an excuse either. And this kind of insult having been said by the president himself neither ;-). That said, I like to laugh, a lot, but with people, not of people. Don't let my harsh tone refrain you from posting on this mailing list, everyone can make mistakes, me first. Peace, -- Laurent -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
14 days from your post and no infoq clojurewest content :( On Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:29:04 PM UTC-3, Ben Mabey wrote: On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first ClojureWest conference was done. I wish infoq would publish all of them at once but I understand why they want to let them trickle out (so they always have fresh content). They tend to release the keynotes first. -Ben -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Geraldo, Did you read this thread - including the one from Rich, and also the one below it about patience and little kids? On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:04:59 PM UTC-5, Geraldo Lopes de Souza wrote: 14 days from your post and no infoq clojurewest content :( On Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:29:04 PM UTC-3, Ben Mabey wrote: On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first ClojureWest conference was done. I wish infoq would publish all of them at once but I understand why they want to let them trickle out (so they always have fresh content). They tend to release the keynotes first. -Ben -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Responding to this thread only because it seems like the annual roll-call thread where we all band together to fight the evils of our world/mailing list/internet. I would like to share with you all a story that was passed down to me by my great grandfather. *pulls out his lute and begins to strum* When I was not more than twelve years of age I happened upon an ancient scroll On this tattered parchment I did find An enchanting parable It told of the lives of the brave and the mighty Their silver tongues, their dashing Their jewel-encrusted goblets flecked with the finest gold But the text ended most peculiarly, just as for centuries it had been foretold At the bottom lay a lonely line written, using quill and ink, in bold... To the finder of this relic, to the scanner of this scroll, we implore you, dearest reader: Please Don't Feed The Trolls. fin. Now, go tell your children that story and make it stick. Steven Pinker claims in his most recent book that we're living in the most civilized era in human history. I want to BCC him on this thread and get reaction shot. Perhaps a working theory might be that while more people are literate, they think commensurately less about what they write and publish. Oh, and Alex, could we get those videos faster? I am *really* close to proving P=NP and solving the banking and energy crises, but wouldn't you know it: My research is largely based off of Clojure/west videos. Imagine the whole world singing in harmony to the announcement of Javelin and Pedestal. The fate of the world rests in your hands! Seriously though, thanks Alex for everything you do and have done for the Clojure community. Lambda Jam looks like it's going to be a great time. Thanks for the keeping the midwest Curry. '∂√v On Friday, April 5, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Mark wrote: Geraldo, Did you read this thread - including the one from Rich, and also the one below it about patience and little kids? On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:04:59 PM UTC-5, Geraldo Lopes de Souza wrote: 14 days from your post and no infoq clojurewest content :( On Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:29:04 PM UTC-3, Ben Mabey wrote: On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first ClojureWest conference was done. I wish infoq would publish all of them at once but I understand why they want to let them trickle out (so they always have fresh content). They tend to release the keynotes first. -Ben -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com) For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mar 25, 2013, at 1:52 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote: Cedric Greevey writes: Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. It bums me out that Alex's fantastic work is being trivialized and criticized by people with a huge entitlement complex and no idea what they're talking about. Amen. There's really only one thing to say to Alex about his conferences: Thanks Alex for doing a great job! I appreciate your hard work. Rich -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
It may well be that I'll never get to the US in my whole life, who knows. Nevertheless, I get to watch fine recordings from interesting talks developed and given by people way smarter than me. And I get those for free. What an opportunity.. Patience is something I'm trying to teach my kids since they've been like 2 or 3 years old and they are getting better at it everyday. I am pretty sure, waiting for something important makes us value, what we get, more. Thanks Alex and all involved. Your hard work is highly appreciated. stefan -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I'm starting to miss Ken Wesson. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Gary Trakhman gary.trakh...@gmail.comwrote: I've volunteered on the pycon AV team, in 2009, it's 1000x more work than what you described further up in the thread, a minimum wage worker holding something steady. It requires a lot of coordination, and I think the cost to the conference would be much higher than InfoQ as well. On Monday, March 25, 2013 1:05:51 PM UTC-4, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michael Klishin michael@gmail.comwrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgre...@gmail.com Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. I challenge you to put together a technical videos channel that has millions of visitors per month. Another minute, another straw man. My point is that the needed video hosting capability already exists (and even has monetize options). Of *course* it will be expensive to go the reinvent all needed wheels route. I don't get it. The thread got complaints that the videos were being produced slowly and inefficiently, yet as soon as someone actually suggested ways to potentially make the process faster and more efficient, practically *everyone* leapt to the defense of those same slow and inefficient methods that they'd previously complained about. I guess abstract kvetching is okay, but concrete suggestions are frightening because they might *actually lead to change* or something. Although that still doesn't explain why someone then had the gall to criticize *me* for not making concrete and constructive suggestions, when that's exactly what I *did* do after *other people* had merely complained without making any suggestions. Of course, I don't really *need* to argue anymore, because someone else helpfully pointed out that an existing conference already does a better job: pycon. That completely disproves the entire class of arguments along the lines of making *conference proceedings* videos is somehow some sort of a special case and it HAS to be slow and expensive!, of which we've seen several, sadly including some *after* pycon was first mentioned. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Aaron Miller aa...@crate.im wrote: I have breaking news from 2008 or so for you: there are consumer video cameras that shoot high definition. Also, Youtube supports high definition. I do think it's worth pointing out that *high definition* does not a watchable video make. There are camera phones that can shoot high definition video, and are frankly going to give you back unwatchable crap that only excels at taking up a lot more disk space. At the end of the day, recording a talk well means folks can *hear* the speaker and *see the presentation* and it doesn't really matter at all whether the video of the speakers themselves are captured in high fidelity at all. That's going to require more than finding a HD camcorder and sticking it on a tripod in the corner. Yes. The zoom would also have to be set correctly, and the focus. Surely only someone with a master's degree in engineering, or equivalent level of professional expertise, could *possibly* manage *that*, though, right? :) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Who? On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:51 PM, gaz jones gareth.e.jo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm starting to miss Ken Wesson. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Gary Trakhman gary.trakh...@gmail.comwrote: I've volunteered on the pycon AV team, in 2009, it's 1000x more work than what you described further up in the thread, a minimum wage worker holding something steady. It requires a lot of coordination, and I think the cost to the conference would be much higher than InfoQ as well. On Monday, March 25, 2013 1:05:51 PM UTC-4, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michael Klishin michael@gmail.com wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgre...@gmail.com Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. I challenge you to put together a technical videos channel that has millions of visitors per month. Another minute, another straw man. My point is that the needed video hosting capability already exists (and even has monetize options). Of *course* it will be expensive to go the reinvent all needed wheels route. I don't get it. The thread got complaints that the videos were being produced slowly and inefficiently, yet as soon as someone actually suggested ways to potentially make the process faster and more efficient, practically *everyone* leapt to the defense of those same slow and inefficient methods that they'd previously complained about. I guess abstract kvetching is okay, but concrete suggestions are frightening because they might *actually lead to change* or something. Although that still doesn't explain why someone then had the gall to criticize *me* for not making concrete and constructive suggestions, when that's exactly what I *did* do after *other people* had merely complained without making any suggestions. Of course, I don't really *need* to argue anymore, because someone else helpfully pointed out that an existing conference already does a better job: pycon. That completely disproves the entire class of arguments along the lines of making *conference proceedings* videos is somehow some sort of a special case and it HAS to be slow and expensive!, of which we've seen several, sadly including some *after* pycon was first mentioned. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.comwrote: In fact, your statement is wrong as to very basic economics. The value of being there at the conference isn't alterable by something that hasn't, at that point, even happened yet. A delayed release only takes value *away* from the *videos*. It may make being there at the conference *relatively* more valuable than the videos, but it doesn't change the conference's *absolute* value and it actually *diminishes* the *total* value of both. But it's the relative value that matters. To decide whether to go to the conference, I compare the relative value of going over not going; You are confused. The relative value of going over not going *is* the absolute value of the conference and *is not* the relative value of the conference and the videos. Most of the value of the conference isn't something videos can compete with anyway, as it's in the opportunities to meet people and perhaps to do live QA with a presenter. The videos likewise have value the conference itself can't compete with -- replayability, convenience, not having to travel a long way at substantial expense to see them, etc. The two are far more complementary than they are competitive with one another. Broadly speaking, a conference offers two things: information and the fun of networking and being around with others who share your interests. If I know the videos are going to be released immediately, for free, then my judgment about whether to attend the conference becomes a very specific calculation about whether the value to me of interacting with other Clojurians exceeds cost of the conference. And that's exactly as it should be. The only *good* reason to travel all that way is to meet and interact with the other attendees. Using artificial scarcity of the videos to try to coerce people into traveling physically to the conference that *don't* value the interaction enough to go anyway is only going to bring in marginal additional attendees that are *bad attendees*, diluting the population of attendees that are really looking to network with one another and making that networking more difficult. The hay straws to needles ratio in the haystack goes up. The delayed release means that going to the conference becomes not just about the networking, but also the thrill and immediacy of being the first on the block to be privy to the latest and greatest information about Clojure, the new libraries, etc. Thus the delayed release adds value to the conference. No, it really doesn't. Because if you attend you're the first on the block no matter how soon the videos are released, given that nobody hops in his time machine and releases the videos *before* the conference. :) See also: my much earlier post debunking the economic fallacy underlying the counterproductive notion of television blackouts for sports games that aren't sold out at the stadium. (I can provide citations on that topic if need be.) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Alex, you are doing a wonderful job with the videos. InfoQ is helping us all by making a business out of quality videos. From experience, I know there are always people wanting things quicker and cheaper. I bet the same complains will be here if the videos are releases in half the time. Of course I would love to have all videos available now. But it is not normal to have (all) videos available at all... So... I am very happy with the current situation. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Monday, March 25, 2013 7:47:51 AM UTC+2, Michael Klishin wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgre...@gmail.com javascript: A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. Do those computers also ship with a person who has a lot of experience editing video and audio? It takes more than a hour to edit a 40-45 minute long podcast even for experienced people. Even more so with video because you have to make sure video and audio are in sync and it's not trivial. If you have two video inputs (one with the speaker, one with the slides), I can imagine editing a 30 minute video can take several hours. Now, how many talks were there at Clojure/West? Even if the number is 20, you have two weeks worth of editing at ~ 8 hours a day. Sounds like something an amateur volunteer will do well? To compare, PyCon videos are usually up in less than 1 week, see http://pyvideo.org/. Probably the production of those videos are supported by the PSF, but it might still be a good idea to see how they do it. I made some googling as to how they do it. Here is an interview with Carl Karsten, who owns the aptly named NextDayVideo: http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2011/03/02/pycon-2011-interview-carl-karsten/ After a half-hour setup, all of the talks, then a half-hour teardown, it’s an encoding and checking party after that. From the company's website, it seems that the rate per day is around $4000, but they seem flexible: http://www.nextdayvideo.com/page/pricing.html The main difference with these videos with the ones on infoq is that there is only the video stream, there is no separate slide view. This makes it easier to produce since one doesn't need to sync the video with the slides. (which, by the way, is better for me personally, because watching InfoQ videos on iPad is always awkward since one only sees only the speaker.) One other alternative I can think of is to urge the speakers to record the talk themselves using QuickTime (or equivalent in other OSes). This is actually trivial, see http://zachholman.com/posts/how-to-screencast-your-talk/ for an example. If doing this at the time of the talk adds to the pressure of giving the talk, we could perhaps encourage the speakers to do it while rehearsing. Alex Miller, how would this affect the InfoQ deal in terms of copyright?This might indeed be the best of both worlds, the professional quality videos will be still shown on infoq, while the screencast versions will be immediately available. For live-coding sessions, which is not that uncommon, actually the screencast quality would be higher. Ustun -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Alex Miller al...@puredanger.comjavascript: wrote: I have done a fair amount of polling on this for Strange Loop and it's problematic. - there are a small number of interested people which thus requires high per-person prices for videos (higher than you think - Strata video compilation is $400 for example) Where are these costs coming from? The marginal (rather than one-time) costs of pointing a consumer digital video camera on a tripod at a podium in front of a projection screen is pennies, if that, mainly amortizing the equipment and memory card over their expected lifetimes, plus the hydro to recharge the battery. If you did what you describe, you'd have junk. Everything I'm talking about assumes decent videos you'd actually want to watch. So I'm assuming a videographer who knows what he's doing using a high-quality camera and audio source that's edited together with slides into something that looks professional. The videographers we work with bring light sources, extra mics, and a great deal of experience to the table. If you have watched any crummy conference or user group videos you'll often notice that the audio is terrible. Our videographers usually get a board feed as well as sometimes mic'ing speakers separately to get the highest quality audio they can get. - high prices further reduce the number of people willing to pay - high prices also increase the likelihood that people will simply share access to others, further reducing the number of people - any video purchase system requires a significant amount of infrastructure for authentication and payment that either needs to built or bought, either of which further drives up the cost. If video production is done cheaply enough then all this stuff does is add transaction costs. Youtube, Vimeo, and others would host for free and monetize themselves with ads. YOU might even monetize with ads, at least on Youtube. Have you tried monetizing with ads on a generic channel like Youtube? The numbers don't add up. - knowing there is a video compilation available may reduce conference attendance (I think this is actually unlikely but it's possible) That's the same theory underlying the silly blackouts sports leagues sometimes do when stadium tickets aren't sold out, and it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. Even a live broadcast (let alone a tape-delayed one) isn't competition for actually being there, as it turns out. In fact, it's the opposite: it's advertising. Blackouts *damage* attendance, the way not advertising a product reduces sales. Unless you have unusual needs regarding how the videos are initially recorded that preclude using cheap, filmless cameras and no or little, simple postwork, you should be able to DIY with little labor and *way* lower marginal costs than $400 per video even, including hosting. No, I have usual needs with how videos are recorded. The costs are not $400 per video. I said that Strata charged $400 for their video *compilation* - that is, access to all the videos from their conference. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:24:39 PM UTC-5, Rich Morin wrote: On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker * get clean copies of the slides * merge the slides with the video * create assorted web pages, etc. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It allows me to virtually attend conferences all over the world. +1! It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. That said, there may be a way to release raw (Beta?) videos faster, assuming the stakeholders (eg, presenter, conference, recording firm) are OK with this. Alternatively, perhaps a way can be found to let volunteers make recordings. None of the stakeholders are ok with this. The whole point of doing decent videos is to do decent videos. In theory, having volunteers make recordings could work. Certainly conferences like Pycon, Drupalcon, and others do such things. It's a large amount of work to manage and there is a lot of room for something to go wrong and miss a talk or yield uneven results. I'd rather pay professionals to do it right. I also don't have the time to manage that aspect. -r P.S. Here is an example of a locally-recorded talk by Rich Hickey. It's a great talk on concurrent programming in Clojure, but finding a set of slides was a challenge (and stepping them is a bit of a nuisance): http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-concurrency-819147 ftp://nat.iem.pw.edu.pl/pub/DOC/clojure/04-ClojureConcurrencyTalk.pdf -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdmRich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume r...@cfcl.com javascript: http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Software system design, development, and documentation -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:53:32 PM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com javascript:wrote: On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker The speaker can stay approximately in one place, or, any random person can be paid minimum wage to rotate the camera. Cost: $0-8 per hour. I'd not be surprised if there are automated solutions for this, involving some motorized gadget in the tripod head and some invisible-to-human-eyes mark or reflector on the speaker's clothing perhaps, and then there'd be only a one-time cost (plus some trivial amount of electricity). You have no idea what you're talking about. * get clean copies of the slides Whoever is giving the presentation should have these already. * merge the slides with the video A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. You have no idea what you're talking about. * create assorted web pages, etc. Youtube will create a page for your video for you if you upload it there, and a page for your channel/account/whatever listing all of your videos that are uploaded to Youtube. There are other sites that will do similar things. For ongoing series, there are sites optimized for that, too, usually with .tv domains. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. The example given was $400 for ALL videos, not per-video. I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It seems that the delays before the videos get posted, and not having control over when videos get posted, qualifies as an inconvenience, or this thread wouldn't exist. It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. Why are you so convinced that a volunteer couldn't do a good job? I would never say a volunteer couldn't do a good job. But given the kind of equipment and professionalism I've seen our video crews exhibit, I think there is a far higher chance of a consistent excellent result from professionals. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Monday, March 25, 2013 12:47:51 AM UTC-5, Michael Klishin wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgre...@gmail.com javascript: A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. Do those computers also ship with a person who has a lot of experience editing video and audio? It takes more than a hour to edit a 40-45 minute long podcast even for experienced people. Even more so with video because you have to make sure video and audio are in sync and it's not trivial. If you have two video inputs (one with the speaker, one with the slides), I can imagine editing a 30 minute video can take several hours. Now, how many talks were there at Clojure/West? Even if the number is 20, you have two weeks worth of editing at ~ 8 hours a day. There were 33 40 minute talks, 4 hours of miniKanren conf, and about an hour of lightning talks, total about 28 hours of final video I think. Sounds like something an amateur volunteer will do well? -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Monday, March 25, 2013 12:16:45 AM UTC-5, Sean Grove wrote: I'm sure that having nice videos (which have all been awesome) aren't cheap, nor are they easy to produce. It's unfair to trivialize the production and editing of high-quality material. That said, a thought I've been surprised no one has suggested is a crowdtilt/kickstarter-style campaign to get the videos released immediately on youtube/vimeo. If there's sufficient demand, then the costs can be recovered (and the events can be in the black), and if not, then they'll go on InfoQ without any complaints. That's a great idea and something I'll think about. Managing a kickstarter campaign is a lot of work from what I've heard but it might be reasonable in this case. It also allows the demand to be demonstrated prior to the event and costs being incurred. $400 would be likely too steep for me personally, but $100 is certainly reasonable. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
You have no idea what you're talking about. That's never stopped him before. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Alex Miller a...@puredanger.com wrote: On Monday, March 25, 2013 12:16:45 AM UTC-5, Sean Grove wrote: I'm sure that having nice videos (which have all been awesome) aren't cheap, nor are they easy to produce. It's unfair to trivialize the production and editing of high-quality material. That said, a thought I've been surprised no one has suggested is a crowdtilt/kickstarter-style campaign to get the videos released immediately on youtube/vimeo. If there's sufficient demand, then the costs can be recovered (and the events can be in the black), and if not, then they'll go on InfoQ without any complaints. That's a great idea and something I'll think about. Managing a kickstarter campaign is a lot of work from what I've heard but it might be reasonable in this case. It also allows the demand to be demonstrated prior to the event and costs being incurred. $400 would be likely too steep for me personally, but $100 is certainly reasonable. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- http://blog.fogus.me -- http://github.com/fogus -- -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Monday, March 25, 2013 4:19:12 AM UTC-5, Ustun Ozgur wrote: To compare, PyCon videos are usually up in less than 1 week, see http://pyvideo.org/. Probably the production of those videos are supported by the PSF, but it might still be a good idea to see how they do it. I made some googling as to how they do it. Here is an interview with Carl Karsten, who owns the aptly named NextDayVideo: http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2011/03/02/pycon-2011-interview-carl-karsten/After a half-hour setup, all of the talks, then a half-hour teardown, it’s an encoding and checking party after that. From the company's website, it seems that the rate per day is around $4000, but they seem flexible: http://www.nextdayvideo.com/page/pricing.html My total costs with InfoQ are less than $1000. At $4000/day, the conference would be losing money. The main difference with these videos with the ones on infoq is that there is only the video stream, there is no separate slide view. This makes it easier to produce since one doesn't need to sync the video with the slides. (which, by the way, is better for me personally, because watching InfoQ videos on iPad is always awkward since one only sees only the speaker.) That should be changing soon. One other alternative I can think of is to urge the speakers to record the talk themselves using QuickTime (or equivalent in other OSes). This is actually trivial, see http://zachholman.com/posts/how-to-screencast-your-talk/ for an example. If doing this at the time of the talk adds to the pressure of giving the talk, we could perhaps encourage the speakers to do it while rehearsing. This would be a nightmare. I have a hard time just getting speakers to send me their slides! Alex Miller, how would this affect the InfoQ deal in terms of copyright?This might indeed be the best of both worlds, the professional quality videos will be still shown on infoq, while the screencast versions will be immediately available. For live-coding sessions, which is not that uncommon, actually the screencast quality would be higher. InfoQ's main consideration is that they want the first free release of a talk to be on their site, so this would not be ok. Ustun -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Thanks to everyone involved for the Clojure/West videos. I can't afford to go to all the conferences and I appreciate the professional videos. I've seen too many bad videos that are so distracting that the content is lost. I don't mind them coming out on a longer schedule since I have enough trouble keeping up with all the feeds anyway. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On 25 March 2013 13:51, Roger Austin (@RogerTheGeek) raust...@nc.rr.com wrote: Thanks to everyone involved for the Clojure/West videos. I'd just like to second this! I continue to be amazed at the amount and quality of Clojure related videos online; the vast majority due to conferences such as this. Though I've sadly been unable to attend any of these conferences, the fact that the videos are available at all is astounding, and a great asset for the wider (non-attending) Clojure community. If a way can be found to speed this up in the future, it will make a lot of people happy including myself, and might even speed adoption of new Clojure innovations and ideas... but I am truly greatful that the videos are released as they are, and at such a high quality. Like everyone I'm always frustrated by the delay, but would like to thank everyone involved in producing these incredible assets. Again, many many thanks to everyone for doing this! I'm eagerly awaiting just about all of the talks! R. I can't afford to go to all the conferences and I appreciate the professional videos. I've seen too many bad videos that are so distracting that the content is lost. I don't mind them coming out on a longer schedule since I have enough trouble keeping up with all the feeds anyway. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Alex Miller a...@puredanger.com wrote: On Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Alex Miller al...@puredanger.comwrote: I have done a fair amount of polling on this for Strange Loop and it's problematic. - there are a small number of interested people which thus requires high per-person prices for videos (higher than you think - Strata video compilation is $400 for example) Where are these costs coming from? The marginal (rather than one-time) costs of pointing a consumer digital video camera on a tripod at a podium in front of a projection screen is pennies, if that, mainly amortizing the equipment and memory card over their expected lifetimes, plus the hydro to recharge the battery. If you did what you describe, you'd have junk. Everything I'm talking about assumes decent videos you'd actually want to watch. So I'm assuming a videographer who knows what he's doing using a high-quality camera and audio source I think you underestimate what modern consumer-grade cameras can do. that's edited together with slides into something that looks professional. And consumer-grade video editing software. The videographers we work with bring light sources, extra mics, and a great deal of experience to the table. If you have watched any crummy conference or user group videos you'll often notice that the audio is terrible. Our videographers usually get a board feed as well as sometimes mic'ing speakers separately to get the highest quality audio they can get. Or you could have the presenter wear a lapel mic that's BlueToothed to the camera. No, I have usual needs with how videos are recorded. The costs are not $400 per video. I said that Strata charged $400 for their video *compilation* - that is, access to all the videos from their conference. You didn't say that clearly. And that's even more ridiculous. Charging people to view videos from open source conferences?! Not very open. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Alex Miller a...@puredanger.com wrote: On Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:53:32 PM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote: On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker The speaker can stay approximately in one place, or, any random person can be paid minimum wage to rotate the camera. Cost: $0-8 per hour. I'd not be surprised if there are automated solutions for this, involving some motorized gadget in the tripod head and some invisible-to-human-eyes mark or reflector on the speaker's clothing perhaps, and then there'd be only a one-time cost (plus some trivial amount of electricity). You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously I do. Unless you're claiming that if the speaker stands fairly still in the exact center of the camera's FOV, you'll *still* not end up with a video where the camera stays on the speaker? Or maybe you're claiming that the minimum wage just shot up to over eight bucks? Or ... * merge the slides with the video A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. You have no idea what you're talking about. Yes I do. In fact I *wrote* some software to splice slides and video clips together, with transition effects, and render output. I did it in Clojure, in fact. It took an afternoon. The results looked quite slick and professional. Don't lecture me about what software is or is not capable of. * create assorted web pages, etc. Youtube will create a page for your video for you if you upload it there, and a page for your channel/account/whatever listing all of your videos that are uploaded to Youtube. There are other sites that will do similar things. For ongoing series, there are sites optimized for that, too, usually with .tv domains. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. The example given was $400 for ALL videos, not per-video. You changed it, or (being generous here) clarified it perhaps. As originally written it implied they charged $400 per speaker to record the videos, which would be $400 per video. Of course, charging $400 for each *view* is really, REALLY ludicrous, unless their production costs are in the five figures or more per video, in which case they must *really* be doing it wrong if it costs them more to record a few conference videos than it cost to make Star Wreck: In The Pirkinning, an FX-heavy film. I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It seems that the delays before the videos get posted, and not having control over when videos get posted, qualifies as an inconvenience, or this thread wouldn't exist. It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. Why are you so convinced that a volunteer couldn't do a good job? I would never say a volunteer couldn't do a good job. But you had no problem with implying it without quite saying it outright. Hmm. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
While I'd love for the whole conference to be downloaded to my iPad, I'm happy enough with the InfoQ situation. The quality and slide matching is great. The frequency is about what I can keep up with once they start coming. If I want more I guess I'll have to get my work settled and in order to allow time to make the conference. Thank y'all for making it happen. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Cedric, I'm not going to challenge the validity of your points, or even the way you argue your points, since you know how to handle yourself, intellectually. sarcasm on And since you have been known to back your claims with verifyable examples and deeds, I fully expect you to publish a full set of videos of talks you are attending from now on. The costs should be negligible and you can always hire someone to hold the cam when you want to get a coffee. If I may, I'd recommend using homeless people, since you might be able to find some that will work just for food. If your cam guy falls asleep while you are fetching some tasty beverage, or anything else goes wrong, it should be no problem to have the speaker repeat the relevant sections, since speech is free. After you have started to regularly beat infoq et al in terms of quality and timely publishing, you can offer them to adopt your workflow so that they finally can start paying people for watching their videos. In the last step, however, beware of hidden costs. InfoQ might need to provide fresh clothes to their camerapeople aswell. If you need any further directions, or addresses for local soup kitchen, you can call 555-THE-HAND sarcasm off Note, that I am fully ready to blame my own primal instincts, or other lowly emotions, for the way your communication style offends me, so there is no need to try to pivot on that point. Please don't try to pivot by taking literally any of the points between the sarcasm markers either. Please don't waste any more bytes by trolling me or this email, even if you feel wronged by the implications. Please don't feel offended by the sarcasm. The sarcasm was specifically designed to meet your shrugging capability. If you feel offended by this email, please read the whole thread again. If you feel a burning sensation, you are still between the sarcasm tags. Please move along quickly, as prolonged exposure to sarcasm is not part of this thread. If you are willing to offer help, do it, to the people that need it. If they take you up on it, I will publicly apologize. /cedric Big thanks to everyone making clojure videos happen!! I enjoy them even after having seen the talk. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I propose a challenge: Cedric, you pull together a top-notch conference, of high quality speakers with high-quality content. I expect... demand... I demand the following: - It must be in a beautiful, unique city within the united states. - The venue must provide me with free snacks and unlimited beverages - coffee, tea, water, soda - I'd prefer all the food to be organic and local - I want the conference streamed live to the internet, so my co-workers can virtually attend the conference with me - streaming access should be free - I expect you to do all of the work - advertising, admission, ticketing, etc - The hotel must have a significantly discounted rate - I would like all of the videos to be available online, within one month. They should be of comparable quality to the infoQ alternative. - All talks, slides, content, should be captured without fail. No data loss, no quality loss. - All of the online material is available for free. Now, I've put on a Meetup or two in my life, and my costs were more or less $0. So, this shouldn't cost that much either. You can use any software that you want, and higher any help you think you might need. Please do not pass these costs onto conference goers, that's completely unacceptable. - - - - - Complaining about the videos in a completely non-constructive manner is rather disrespectful. You're not evening basing your claims on objective data, suggesting future alternatives, and volunteering to handle the cost. The quality of events, talks, videos, and content of the conferences that Alex puts on is mind-blowing to me. We *all* owe him a great thanks. Cheers, Paul -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com Don't lecture me about what software is or is not capable of. Nobody even mentioned what software is capable of. You cannot produce great content without experienced people involved. Shooting something only looks trivial. There are all kinds of issues that we viewers have no idea about: * Some speakers have terrible mic technique, speak too loudly then too quiet. You have to level that out during editing. * Some speakers run around the stage like crazy because they are too excited/worried/their talk is a clown show. Software is not ready to handle that well. Amateur videographers aren't ready either. * Hardware fails. Amateurs have no idea what to do and how to plan for redundancy. Professionals deal with it all the time. * You need to understand acoustic characteristics of the room. Again, amateurs have no idea how to assess it or adapt the shooting process to it. and the list goes on and on. Putting together all this costs money, that's why the Strata videos (there is 100+ of them from last year if I am not mistaken, by the way) cost money. Alex co have put together 4 or 5 conferences. According to some people I know, they are some of the best conferences in recent years in our industry. I think it's reasonable to assume Alex knows what he's talking about, what the alternatives to this InfoQ deal are and what was realistic given the time and budget they had. Proudly declaring you can do better with amateurs working minimal wage and some free software is very, very optimistic. Don't forget that InfoQ has 600K+ visitors per month. At one video a week, there will be months with constant stream of Clojure content on it. It is the kind of exposure that helps the Clojure community *a lot*. More than the rest of Clojure marketing/promotion combined. Imagine what kind of long term impact it may have. Are you willing to ignore all that just to make the videos appear all at once for free? It's very shortsighted if you ask me (if you care about Clojure, that is). -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Let's see. What do we have here? First there's an ad hominem argument, and then a straw man (the costs under discussion are those of producing *the video*, not *the entire conference*), and finally another ad hominem argument, but this time laced with a small amount of what might actually be termed debating points. In response to which: I did not declare that I *can* do better. I declared that I *did* do about as well, in one specific instance in the past. Room acoustics are rendered moot by the lapel mic suggestion. Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. And that, I think, wraps up the actually meaningful points offered by way of debate. If I missed any, let me know. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
+1 to what Michael said. Once the videos do start rolling in, InfoQ will have at least one Clojure video on the front page for months on end. I once said to a friend after Clojure/West last year,InfoQ? Oh! You mean the Clojure Channel. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com Don't lecture me about what software is or is not capable of. Nobody even mentioned what software is capable of. You cannot produce great content without experienced people involved. Shooting something only looks trivial. There are all kinds of issues that we viewers have no idea about: * Some speakers have terrible mic technique, speak too loudly then too quiet. You have to level that out during editing. * Some speakers run around the stage like crazy because they are too excited/worried/their talk is a clown show. Software is not ready to handle that well. Amateur videographers aren't ready either. * Hardware fails. Amateurs have no idea what to do and how to plan for redundancy. Professionals deal with it all the time. * You need to understand acoustic characteristics of the room. Again, amateurs have no idea how to assess it or adapt the shooting process to it. and the list goes on and on. Putting together all this costs money, that's why the Strata videos (there is 100+ of them from last year if I am not mistaken, by the way) cost money. Alex co have put together 4 or 5 conferences. According to some people I know, they are some of the best conferences in recent years in our industry. I think it's reasonable to assume Alex knows what he's talking about, what the alternatives to this InfoQ deal are and what was realistic given the time and budget they had. Proudly declaring you can do better with amateurs working minimal wage and some free software is very, very optimistic. Don't forget that InfoQ has 600K+ visitors per month. At one video a week, there will be months with constant stream of Clojure content on it. It is the kind of exposure that helps the Clojure community *a lot*. More than the rest of Clojure marketing/promotion combined. Imagine what kind of long term impact it may have. Are you willing to ignore all that just to make the videos appear all at once for free? It's very shortsighted if you ask me (if you care about Clojure, that is). -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.” (Robert Firth) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. I challenge you to put together a technical videos channel that has millions of visitors per month. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michael Klishin michael.s.klis...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. I challenge you to put together a technical videos channel that has millions of visitors per month. Another minute, another straw man. My point is that the needed video hosting capability already exists (and even has monetize options). Of *course* it will be expensive to go the reinvent all needed wheels route. I don't get it. The thread got complaints that the videos were being produced slowly and inefficiently, yet as soon as someone actually suggested ways to potentially make the process faster and more efficient, practically *everyone* leapt to the defense of those same slow and inefficient methods that they'd previously complained about. I guess abstract kvetching is okay, but concrete suggestions are frightening because they might *actually lead to change* or something. Although that still doesn't explain why someone then had the gall to criticize *me* for not making concrete and constructive suggestions, when that's exactly what I *did* do after *other people* had merely complained without making any suggestions. Of course, I don't really *need* to argue anymore, because someone else helpfully pointed out that an existing conference already does a better job: pycon. That completely disproves the entire class of arguments along the lines of making *conference proceedings* videos is somehow some sort of a special case and it HAS to be slow and expensive!, of which we've seen several, sadly including some *after* pycon was first mentioned. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I've been impressed with the quality of the InfoQ videos. Most other tech videos I see are unwatchable precisely because there isn't enough resolution to see the content on the presenter's screen clearly. Having the slides side-by-side makes an enormous difference. Waiting several months for a quality product is well worth it for me. The gradual release schedule of conference videos also works well for me. It's too time consuming to watch more than one or two a week anyway, and I think it helps when the community has buzz about a given video at the same time. I also agree that a delayed release helps add value to actually being there at the conference. I didn't make it to Clojure West this year, but I would have been even less tempted if I knew I could get the videos one week later. In any case, it sounds like Alex Miller is getting piled on with negativity, so I wanted to chime in just to say I am thankful for the Clojure conferences and totally satisfied with the current state of affairs regarding the videos. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Cedric Greevey writes: Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. It bums me out that Alex's fantastic work is being trivialized and criticized by people with a huge entitlement complex and no idea what they're talking about. If you think you can do better, try running your own conference. (Spoiler alert: you can't do better; Alex is the best.) -Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Phil and Alex, On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote: It bums me out that Alex's fantastic work is being trivialized and criticized by people with a huge entitlement complex and no idea what they're talking about. If you think you can do better, try running your own conference. (Spoiler alert: you can't do better; Alex is the best.) As someone who helps run another clojure conference or two I'm always amazed at what I hear about the conferences that Alex organises. I hope he doesn't mind if I keep stealing ideas. cheers, Bruce -- @otfrom | CTO co-founder @MastodonC | mastodonc.com See recent coverage of us in the Economist http://econ.st/WeTd2i and the Financial Times http://on.ft.com/T154BA -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Thank you for the conferences! I missed this one but really want to attend the next one. And a double thank you for having such high-quality videos from past conferences available on-line! Alan Thompson On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.comwrote: I've been impressed with the quality of the InfoQ videos. Most other tech videos I see are unwatchable precisely because there isn't enough resolution to see the content on the presenter's screen clearly. Having the slides side-by-side makes an enormous difference. Waiting several months for a quality product is well worth it for me. The gradual release schedule of conference videos also works well for me. It's too time consuming to watch more than one or two a week anyway, and I think it helps when the community has buzz about a given video at the same time. I also agree that a delayed release helps add value to actually being there at the conference. I didn't make it to Clojure West this year, but I would have been even less tempted if I knew I could get the videos one week later. In any case, it sounds like Alex Miller is getting piled on with negativity, so I wanted to chime in just to say I am thankful for the Clojure conferences and totally satisfied with the current state of affairs regarding the videos. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com Another minute, another straw man. My point is that the needed video hosting capability already exists (and even has monetize options). You are great at identifying logical fallacies in other's arguments. You are not so great at remembering your own lines of argument (which makes it easy for you to avoid formal logic errors). E.g. a few posts ago, you told Alex, that his costs were too high and proceeded to pull a complete bill of expenses out of your ears. I want to point out that this is very insensitive and insulting, in case you were not aware of that fact. Now you tell us, that we should not reinvent all the wheels (so no cam volunteers? awww), that it's just about the hosting platform (whose millions of users we supposedly could magically attract, by just being there). That tells me that either you were manipulating the whole conversation, by making big claims and generously reducing them to just the hosting platform. The alternative is that you are lying now, and your argument was not just about hosting. So if you have some secret agenda please make your intentions transparent. The third option, of course, is that you just throw stuff at the mailing list and see what sticks, without thinking it through. This is how I actually see you, given the benefit of doubt, in case you wondered. I don't get it. The thread got complaints that the videos were being produced slowly and inefficiently, yet as soon as someone actually suggested ways to potentially make the process faster and more efficient, practically *everyone* leapt to the defense of those same slow and inefficient methods that they'd previously complained about. I guess abstract kvetching is okay, but concrete suggestions are frightening because they might *actually lead to change* or something. Although that still doesn't explain why someone then had the gall to criticize *me* for not making concrete and constructive suggestions, when that's exactly what I *did* do after *other people* had merely complained without making any suggestions. No! Your suggestions are either trivial or inexecutable, akin to the CEO micromanaging a floor coder. They are not constructive (for lack of constructing an alternative that hasn't been thought of by the people who actually make it happen). They are concrete, I will give you that. I also admit, that the alternative with volunteers and magic software, you envision frightens me, but not because I consider it realistic. Of course, I don't really *need* to argue anymore, because someone else helpfully pointed out that an existing conference already does a better job: pycon. That completely disproves the entire class of arguments along the lines of making *conference proceedings* videos is somehow some sort of a special case and it HAS to be slow and expensive!, of which we've seen several, sadly including some *after* pycon was first mentioned. Well now you are the CEO yelling at his coders: But the other company does it better Without doing your CEO job and finding out what makes them better and how their processes could be applied. -- Cedric, seriously, I wish of all the time I took now to address your inane temper tantrums (which includes reading and thinking about them), I had taken just a tenth to praise actually constructive people in this community and/or contributing myself. I won't ask you to shut up or go away, because often I see you making meaningful posts. But if you will grant me one wish: From now on, if three people or more disagree with you in a thread, refrain from posting any more and proceed to discuss in personal emails or chat. And yes, we all know that being disagreed with stings. Sucking it up is a skill aswell. And the next time you feel the need to suggest improvements to a process, that's out of your control, show some respect for the people in charge and acknowledge that they might already have thought of the things you are proposing. Even a very formal disclaimer can make all the difference in the world. All that said (again): == Big thanks to Alex and his team for making those wonderful conferences happen and for providing videos! I wish I could find a way to express the full extent of my gratitude without making everyone feel awkward. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Second this, I like the high quality of the InfoQ stuff. It's consistently good, watchable video. Sure it can be a bummer to wait a bit for em, but hey, high quality free videos! Now *could* Alex somehow figure out some scheme that gets them up the next day and little cost, involving organizing a small army of volunteer videographers, robotic cameras, magic software that splices slides into video at just the right point, etc... Maybe. Or he could keep spending that time organizing awesome conferences. Thanks, MBL On Monday, March 25, 2013 1:35:55 PM UTC-4, puzzler wrote: I've been impressed with the quality of the InfoQ videos. Most other tech videos I see are unwatchable precisely because there isn't enough resolution to see the content on the presenter's screen clearly. Having the slides side-by-side makes an enormous difference. Waiting several months for a quality product is well worth it for me. The gradual release schedule of conference videos also works well for me. It's too time consuming to watch more than one or two a week anyway, and I think it helps when the community has buzz about a given video at the same time. I also agree that a delayed release helps add value to actually being there at the conference. I didn't make it to Clojure West this year, but I would have been even less tempted if I knew I could get the videos one week later. In any case, it sounds like Alex Miller is getting piled on with negativity, so I wanted to chime in just to say I am thankful for the Clojure conferences and totally satisfied with the current state of affairs regarding the videos. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Mark Engelberg mark.engelb...@gmail.comwrote: I've been impressed with the quality of the InfoQ videos. Most other tech videos I see are unwatchable precisely because there isn't enough resolution to see the content on the presenter's screen clearly. Having the slides side-by-side makes an enormous difference. Waiting several months for a quality product is well worth it for me. I have breaking news from 2008 or so for you: there are consumer video cameras that shoot high definition. Also, Youtube supports high definition. The gradual release schedule of conference videos also works well for me. It's too time consuming to watch more than one or two a week anyway, and I think it helps when the community has buzz about a given video at the same time. It's probably people interested in a specific video rather than in all of them, eventually that find the delays annoying. In any event, there seems to be a peculiar assumption operating that making all of the videos promptly accessible and using them over time to promote the site and/or Clojure are somehow mutually exclusive. Nothing prevents a competent website admin from uploading the videos all at once, and putting up an index page linking to them all, but *also* featuring one a week on the front page of the site or something, to generate and maintain buzz and to draw in new visitors to the site even long after one conference and before the next. I also agree that a delayed release helps add value to actually being there at the conference. I don't, and the reasoning was outlined already. In fact, your statement is wrong as to very basic economics. The value of being there at the conference isn't alterable by something that hasn't, at that point, even happened yet. A delayed release only takes value *away* from the *videos*. It may make being there at the conference *relatively* more valuable than the videos, but it doesn't change the conference's *absolute* value and it actually *diminishes* the *total* value of both. In any case, it sounds like Alex Miller is getting piled on with negativity, so I wanted to chime in just to say I am thankful for the Clojure conferences and totally satisfied with the current state of affairs regarding the videos. Suggested improvements that would add value for everyone are not negativity. On the other hand, some of the nastier ad hominem remarks directed at me have qualified as such. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote: Cedric Greevey writes: Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. It bums me out that Alex's fantastic work is being trivialized and criticized How so? Is it trivializing and criticizing if I point out that an elaborately-carved buggy whip handle is obsolescent, if not already obsolete? A thing can be both fantastic work and obsolescent, if not already obsolete at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive. by people with a huge entitlement complex and no idea what they're talking about. Ad hominem. Good bye. And Herwig Hochleitner wrote: You are great at identifying logical fallacies in other's arguments. You are not so great at[SNIP] Ad hominem. Good bye. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I have breaking news from 2008 or so for you: there are consumer video cameras that shoot high definition. Also, Youtube supports high definition. I do think it's worth pointing out that *high definition* does not a watchable video make. There are camera phones that can shoot high definition video, and are frankly going to give you back unwatchable crap that only excels at taking up a lot more disk space. At the end of the day, recording a talk well means folks can *hear* the speaker and *see the presentation* and it doesn't really matter at all whether the video of the speakers themselves are captured in high fidelity at all. That's going to require more than finding a HD camcorder and sticking it on a tripod in the corner. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com How so? Is it trivializing and criticizing if I point out that an elaborately-carved buggy whip handle is obsolescent, if not already obsolete? A thing can be both fantastic work and obsolescent, if not already obsolete at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive. You are routinely ignoring the argument that it's not just hardware and software that make a video great. It's work done by humans with experience. This is in part what Phil means by trivializing, I believe. But, of course, you will find an excuse, a fallacy or something else to defy this, too. You're the most knowledgeable person in the world, Cedric. On any subject. Congratulations. Good bye. -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I would suggest that the finer points of economical video production and distribution be discussed further in another forum. I know we started out on Clojure, but have drifted fairly far afield for a while. Andy P.S.: It is OK to go to bed now. http://xkcd.com/386/ -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Andy Fingerhut andy.finger...@gmail.com: I would suggest that the finer points of economical video production and distribution be discussed further in another forum. I know we started out on Clojure, but have drifted fairly far afield for a while. Andy P.S.: It is OK to go to bed now. http://xkcd.com/386/ Ywwwn ;-) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I've volunteered on the pycon AV team, in 2009, it's 1000x more work than what you described further up in the thread, a minimum wage worker holding something steady. It requires a lot of coordination, and I think the cost to the conference would be much higher than InfoQ as well. On Monday, March 25, 2013 1:05:51 PM UTC-4, Cedric Greevey wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michael Klishin michael@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: 2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgre...@gmail.com javascript: Don't forget that Youtube has MILLIONS of visitors per month. Imagine the impact if the videos were available when demand for them was actually at its peak, rather than after half the people that had been interested have forgotten all about them. I challenge you to put together a technical videos channel that has millions of visitors per month. Another minute, another straw man. My point is that the needed video hosting capability already exists (and even has monetize options). Of *course* it will be expensive to go the reinvent all needed wheels route. I don't get it. The thread got complaints that the videos were being produced slowly and inefficiently, yet as soon as someone actually suggested ways to potentially make the process faster and more efficient, practically *everyone* leapt to the defense of those same slow and inefficient methods that they'd previously complained about. I guess abstract kvetching is okay, but concrete suggestions are frightening because they might *actually lead to change* or something. Although that still doesn't explain why someone then had the gall to criticize *me* for not making concrete and constructive suggestions, when that's exactly what I *did* do after *other people* had merely complained without making any suggestions. Of course, I don't really *need* to argue anymore, because someone else helpfully pointed out that an existing conference already does a better job: pycon. That completely disproves the entire class of arguments along the lines of making *conference proceedings* videos is somehow some sort of a special case and it HAS to be slow and expensive!, of which we've seen several, sadly including some *after* pycon was first mentioned. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, your statement is wrong as to very basic economics. The value of being there at the conference isn't alterable by something that hasn't, at that point, even happened yet. A delayed release only takes value *away* from the *videos*. It may make being there at the conference *relatively* more valuable than the videos, but it doesn't change the conference's *absolute* value and it actually *diminishes* the *total* value of both. But it's the relative value that matters. To decide whether to go to the conference, I compare the relative value of going over not going; the timing of the release of the videos has a huge impact on that calculation. Broadly speaking, a conference offers two things: information and the fun of networking and being around with others who share your interests. If I know the videos are going to be released immediately, for free, then my judgment about whether to attend the conference becomes a very specific calculation about whether the value to me of interacting with other Clojurians exceeds cost of the conference. The delayed release means that going to the conference becomes not just about the networking, but also the thrill and immediacy of being the first on the block to be privy to the latest and greatest information about Clojure, the new libraries, etc. Thus the delayed release adds value to the conference. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I have done a fair amount of polling on this for Strange Loop and it's problematic. - there are a small number of interested people which thus requires high per-person prices for videos (higher than you think - Strata video compilation is $400 for example) - high prices further reduce the number of people willing to pay - high prices also increase the likelihood that people will simply share access to others, further reducing the number of people - any video purchase system requires a significant amount of infrastructure for authentication and payment that either needs to built or bought, either of which further drives up the cost. - knowing there is a video compilation available may reduce conference attendance (I think this is actually unlikely but it's possible) I think it's probably far more tractable to make individual videos per-pay on a small cost (an app-like model). This is at odds with the InfoQ model but a model I've discussed with some other companies. That said, I want to spend my time running conferences, not building or managing per-pay video apps. On Friday, March 22, 2013 11:47:20 PM UTC-7, Alan Busby wrote: On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Alex Miller al...@puredanger.comjavascript: wrote: The benefit to attendees and non-attendees is that the videos exist at all - without the InfoQ deal, the cost of recording, editing, and hosting videos is literally the difference between whether the conference is in the red or black. For attendees, I do really wish that I could provide talks sooner just to you and I continue to discuss options for that with InfoQ. Just a thought, but I know a few conferences where the videos are available for sale after the conference (Strataconf?). I know I'd be happy to pay $50-100 for the timely videos instead of waiting 3-12 months after the conference when I can't attend. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Alex Miller a...@puredanger.com wrote: I have done a fair amount of polling on this for Strange Loop and it's problematic. - there are a small number of interested people which thus requires high per-person prices for videos (higher than you think - Strata video compilation is $400 for example) Where are these costs coming from? The marginal (rather than one-time) costs of pointing a consumer digital video camera on a tripod at a podium in front of a projection screen is pennies, if that, mainly amortizing the equipment and memory card over their expected lifetimes, plus the hydro to recharge the battery. - high prices further reduce the number of people willing to pay - high prices also increase the likelihood that people will simply share access to others, further reducing the number of people - any video purchase system requires a significant amount of infrastructure for authentication and payment that either needs to built or bought, either of which further drives up the cost. If video production is done cheaply enough then all this stuff does is add transaction costs. Youtube, Vimeo, and others would host for free and monetize themselves with ads. YOU might even monetize with ads, at least on Youtube. - knowing there is a video compilation available may reduce conference attendance (I think this is actually unlikely but it's possible) That's the same theory underlying the silly blackouts sports leagues sometimes do when stadium tickets aren't sold out, and it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. Even a live broadcast (let alone a tape-delayed one) isn't competition for actually being there, as it turns out. In fact, it's the opposite: it's advertising. Blackouts *damage* attendance, the way not advertising a product reduces sales. Unless you have unusual needs regarding how the videos are initially recorded that preclude using cheap, filmless cameras and no or little, simple postwork, you should be able to DIY with little labor and *way* lower marginal costs than $400 per video even, including hosting. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker * get clean copies of the slides * merge the slides with the video * create assorted web pages, etc. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It allows me to virtually attend conferences all over the world. +1! It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. That said, there may be a way to release raw (Beta?) videos faster, assuming the stakeholders (eg, presenter, conference, recording firm) are OK with this. Alternatively, perhaps a way can be found to let volunteers make recordings. -r P.S. Here is an example of a locally-recorded talk by Rich Hickey. It's a great talk on concurrent programming in Clojure, but finding a set of slides was a challenge (and stepping them is a bit of a nuisance): http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-concurrency-819147 ftp://nat.iem.pw.edu.pl/pub/DOC/clojure/04-ClojureConcurrencyTalk.pdf -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdmRich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume r...@cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Software system design, development, and documentation -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote: On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker The speaker can stay approximately in one place, or, any random person can be paid minimum wage to rotate the camera. Cost: $0-8 per hour. I'd not be surprised if there are automated solutions for this, involving some motorized gadget in the tripod head and some invisible-to-human-eyes mark or reflector on the speaker's clothing perhaps, and then there'd be only a one-time cost (plus some trivial amount of electricity). * get clean copies of the slides Whoever is giving the presentation should have these already. * merge the slides with the video A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. * create assorted web pages, etc. Youtube will create a page for your video for you if you upload it there, and a page for your channel/account/whatever listing all of your videos that are uploaded to Youtube. There are other sites that will do similar things. For ongoing series, there are sites optimized for that, too, usually with .tv domains. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It seems that the delays before the videos get posted, and not having control over when videos get posted, qualifies as an inconvenience, or this thread wouldn't exist. It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. Why are you so convinced that a volunteer couldn't do a good job? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
I'm sure that having nice videos (which have all been awesome) aren't cheap, nor are they easy to produce. It's unfair to trivialize the production and editing of high-quality material. That said, a thought I've been surprised no one has suggested is a crowdtilt/kickstarter-style campaign to get the videos released immediately on youtube/vimeo. If there's sufficient demand, then the costs can be recovered (and the events can be in the black), and if not, then they'll go on InfoQ without any complaints. $400 would be likely too steep for me personally, but $100 is certainly reasonable. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote: On Mar 24, 2013, at 18:44, Cedric Greevey wrote: Where are these costs coming from? ... To get professional results, you need more than a camera on a tripod. For example, someone has to: * keep the camera on the speaker The speaker can stay approximately in one place, or, any random person can be paid minimum wage to rotate the camera. Cost: $0-8 per hour. I'd not be surprised if there are automated solutions for this, involving some motorized gadget in the tripod head and some invisible-to-human-eyes mark or reflector on the speaker's clothing perhaps, and then there'd be only a one-time cost (plus some trivial amount of electricity). * get clean copies of the slides Whoever is giving the presentation should have these already. * merge the slides with the video A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. * create assorted web pages, etc. Youtube will create a page for your video for you if you upload it there, and a page for your channel/account/whatever listing all of your videos that are uploaded to Youtube. There are other sites that will do similar things. For ongoing series, there are sites optimized for that, too, usually with .tv domains. * ... Outfits like InfoQ and Confreaks do a very good job, but they use professional staff (who expect to be paid). And I'm guessing what they're doing is obsolescent, if not already obsolete, in that it can be done about as well for a lot less money. If they're charging $400 a video I smell a market ripe for disruption. I'm delighted that these folks provide high-quality recordings of talks, at no cost or inconvenience to me. It seems that the delays before the videos get posted, and not having control over when videos get posted, qualifies as an inconvenience, or this thread wouldn't exist. It's also wonderful to have a local meeting recorded by a volunteer, but I _really_ don't want this to be the way our conferences are recorded. I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. Why are you so convinced that a volunteer couldn't do a good job? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Sean Grove s...@cloudfuji.com wrote: I'm sure that having nice videos (which have all been awesome) aren't cheap, nor are they easy to produce. It's unfair to trivialize the production and editing of high-quality material. We aren't talking Hollywood blockbusters here. A steady camera aimed at the speaker for the duration, plus a bit of editing to alternate segments of that with slides or short video clips that were presented, is all. I've seen videos of this type that were very slickly done with the editing having taken a few hours of one guy's labor on a mid-range desktop computer. That said, a thought I've been surprised no one has suggested is a crowdtilt/kickstarter-style campaign to get the videos released immediately on youtube/vimeo. If there's sufficient demand, then the costs can be recovered (and the events can be in the black), and if not, then they'll go on InfoQ without any complaints. $400 would be likely too steep for me personally, but $100 is certainly reasonable. It's not $400 per viewer (how can there be costs per viewer? Assuming you end up hosting on Youtube that is), it's $400 per *video*. So $400 wouldn't be the pledge amount. It would be the *target* of the kickstart for making a single video. :) A target so low that offering DVD copies to anyone who chipped in a twenty would get you to it if twenty people were interested enough to buy DVDs at that price. (And the cost of burning and mailing a few DVDs would be only a few more dollars.) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
2013/3/25 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com A lot of computers are shipping with free no-frills video editing software these days that probably suffices for this. Do those computers also ship with a person who has a lot of experience editing video and audio? It takes more than a hour to edit a 40-45 minute long podcast even for experienced people. Even more so with video because you have to make sure video and audio are in sync and it's not trivial. If you have two video inputs (one with the speaker, one with the slides), I can imagine editing a 30 minute video can take several hours. Now, how many talks were there at Clojure/West? Even if the number is 20, you have two weeks worth of editing at ~ 8 hours a day. Sounds like something an amateur volunteer will do well? -- MK http://github.com/michaelklishin http://twitter.com/michaelklishin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote: I can wait a bit for the editing; clean results are more important than saving a month or so. I wouldn't say anything if it was only a month, it's actually closer to 3-7 months after the conference though. Clojure West 2012 was held March ~17th, the last video was posted on InfoQ October 12th. The bulk of the videos were released over the summer. I'd rather have iPhone videos, or just audio; with a link to the slides on github for $50 than wait 6+ months. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Alex Miller a...@puredanger.com wrote: The benefit to attendees and non-attendees is that the videos exist at all - without the InfoQ deal, the cost of recording, editing, and hosting videos is literally the difference between whether the conference is in the red or black. For attendees, I do really wish that I could provide talks sooner just to you and I continue to discuss options for that with InfoQ. Just a thought, but I know a few conferences where the videos are available for sale after the conference (Strataconf?). I know I'd be happy to pay $50-100 for the timely videos instead of waiting 3-12 months after the conference when I can't attend. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Mar 21, 1:29 pm, Ben Mabey b...@benmabey.com wrote: On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first That's unfortunate ClojureWest conference was done. I wish infoq would publish all of them at once but I understand why they want to let them trickle out (so they always have fresh content). They tend to release the keynotes first. -Ben -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Hi John, Videos will be available on InfoQ from http://www.infoq.com/clojure-west. Generally, it takes 3-4 weeks for videos to start coming out and they then arrive 1-2 per week for many months. We will probably not start working on the actual schedule for another week or two. Rich Hickey has requested that the video release of his keynote be delayed as he intends to give it at 1 or 2 other events first, so while I usually try to slot the keynotes and more buzzy talks earlier, you'll have to wait a bit longer for Rich's talk. There are sometimes grumblings about how long it takes for videos to appear (and occasionally the way in which they appear) on InfoQ. To head those comments off at the pass (not directing this at you John, just taking the opportunity!), the arrangement I have with InfoQ relies on videos being released slowly to maximize ad impressions. There are some benefits to me as well in serving as a periodic marketing purpose. The benefit to attendees and non-attendees is that the videos exist at all - without the InfoQ deal, the cost of recording, editing, and hosting videos is literally the difference between whether the conference is in the red or black. For attendees, I do really wish that I could provide talks sooner just to you and I continue to discuss options for that with InfoQ. Alex On Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:08:48 AM UTC-7, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Clojure/West 2013 videos?
Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first ClojureWest conference was done. I wish infoq would publish all of them at once but I understand why they want to let them trickle out (so they always have fresh content). They tend to release the keynotes first. -Ben -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Clojure/West 2013 videos?
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:29:04 PM UTC-4, Ben Mabey wrote: On 3/21/13 10:08 AM, John Gabriele wrote: Are there any videos available of the talks recently given at Clojure/West? Is there a central location where these will most likely be found at some point? Alex can confirm this but my guess is that they will be released on infoq slowly over time. This is how Strangeloop and the first ClojureWest conference was done. Thanks, Ben. Will look for them at http://www.infoq.com/clojure. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
