Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Maik Schünemann]

Great resource!
I hope you don't mind if I steal ideas from it :)


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Jonas  wrote:

> This is a very interesting project. I look forward to following its
> development.
>
> I did a presentation[1] on the implementation of the kibit[2] rule system
> a few weeks ago which you might find interesting since it's using
> core.logic as well.
>
> [1] http://jonase.github.io/kibit-demo/
> [2] https://github.com/jonase/kibit
>
> Jonas
>
> On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:10:52 PM UTC+3, Maik Schünemann wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of
>> code.
>> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
>> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
>> expressions syntactically
>> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of
>> core.matrix.
>>
>> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and
>> also the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
>> represent an expression,
>> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
>> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/**201blog post3/05/gsoc-project-**
>> algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>>
>> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a concrete
>> use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I get the
>> better I can make the
>> library.
>>
>>
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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Jonas]

This is a very interesting project. I look forward to following its 
development.

I did a presentation[1] on the implementation of the kibit[2] rule system a 
few weeks ago which you might find interesting since it's using core.logic 
as well.

[1] http://jonase.github.io/kibit-demo/
[2] https://github.com/jonase/kibit

Jonas

On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:10:52 PM UTC+3, Maik Schünemann wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of 
> code.
> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the 
> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate 
> expressions syntactically
> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of 
> core.matrix.
>
> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and also 
> the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to 
> represent an expression,
> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog 
> post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>
> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a concrete 
> use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I get the 
> better I can make the
> library. 
>
>
>

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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Maik Schünemann]

Thank you!
Pure looks very interesting
I will check how the rules are represented there
Am 30.05.2013 07:10 schrieb "Konrad Hinsen" <
googlegro...@khinsen.fastmail.net>:

> --On 29 mai 2013 19:02:18 +0200 Maik Schünemann 
> wrote:
>
>  Yes I looked at Mathematica even read a paper about its internal
>> implementation and that it is at its core basically a rewrite system!
>> (I also mentioned that in my proposal)
>>
>
> You might also have a look at the Pure language (<
> https://en.wikipedia.org/**wiki/Pure_(programming_**language)>).
> It's also based on term rewriting, but contrary to Mathematica it's Open
> Source.
>
> Konrad.
>
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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Konrad Hinsen]

--On 29 mai 2013 19:02:18 +0200 Maik Schünemann 
 wrote:



Yes I looked at Mathematica even read a paper about its internal
implementation and that it is at its core basically a rewrite system! 
(I also mentioned that in my proposal)


You might also have a look at the Pure language 
(). It's also 
based on term rewriting, but contrary to Mathematica it's Open Source.


Konrad.

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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Maik Schünemann]

Yes of course! this set of rules is only to test the functionality of the
rule based translator
expresso will take an input into a normal form. (the transformation itself
can be a set of rules)
In the normal form I will order the symbols alphabetically before the
symbols and try to mimimize
the difference between the same variables.
The exact form of the normalized expression is also a design choice. For
limited set of expressions
there are canonical ( same representation <=> same value) standart forms,
but expresso aims to be
general. Even for polynomials you could say
(3x * 4y) * (5 - 3x + z) should be factored out, but what about
(x + y)^100
I think it is good to 'normalize' every expression entered to a agree able
normal form but not doing to much
that would work against other use cases but let the transformation to the
modules which build upon the
core expresso functionality.

another thing to mimimize the amount of rules is a better syntax for them.
For now many rules are
dublicates and differ only on which argument they are applied.
This is needed because it will support variadic expressions (the code now
only likes (op ag1 ag2))
so I will write syntax to make it easy to say for example
if any argument to * is 0 => 0
if there are multiple occurences of a variable with + concat them
...
I think this addresses the issue you meant in your first post

what do you mean by entropy based calculation ? something like the
heuristic to contract the same variable
as much as possible ?




On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Alan Thompson wrote:

> Perhaps alphabetize the symbols to break the loop?  It seems that
> something is needed or you'll get a combinatorical explosion of rules!
>
> Also, you need some system to say writing (* 3 x) is preferable to (+ x x
> x) and the like.  I have had good luck using an entropy based calculation
> for scoring such options  in the past. Is there any way to incorporate such
> a score in the rule system?
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Maik Schünemann <
> maikschuenem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alan.
>> Yes I looked at Mathematica even read a paper about its internal
>> implementation and that it is at its core basically a rewrite system!
>> (I also mentioned that in my proposal)
>> this commutative rule would cause an infinite loop because x and y match
>> to anything. So the result of applying the rule will be given to the rule
>> and on and on ...
>> This is a hard thing for rule based systems.
>> but I plan to have generic rules classes of operations.
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Alan Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi - This looks great!  Did you look at Mathematica at all?  They have
>>> been doing symbolic algebra for many years, and you might get some ideas
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Also, I noticed that you don't have any commutative rules listed, eg:
>>>
>>> (rule ['+ x y]  :=>  ['+ y x])
>>>
>>> Wouldn't this reduce some of the duplication in your rules example?
>>> Good luck!
>>> Alan Thompson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 AM, David Nolen wrote:
>>>
 A very cool of use of core.logic, look forward to seeing where it goes
 :)


 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Maik Schünemann <
 maikschuenem...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer
> of code.
> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
> expressions syntactically
> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top
> of core.matrix.
>
> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and
> also the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
> represent an expression,
> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog
> post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>
> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a
> concrete use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I
> get the better I can make the
> library.
>
>
>  --
> --
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>>>

Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Alan Thompson]

Perhaps alphabetize the symbols to break the loop?  It seems that something
is needed or you'll get a combinatorical explosion of rules!

Also, you need some system to say writing (* 3 x) is preferable to (+ x x
x) and the like.  I have had good luck using an entropy based calculation
for scoring such options  in the past. Is there any way to incorporate such
a score in the rule system?

Alan


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Maik Schünemann  wrote:

> Hi Alan.
> Yes I looked at Mathematica even read a paper about its internal
> implementation and that it is at its core basically a rewrite system!
> (I also mentioned that in my proposal)
> this commutative rule would cause an infinite loop because x and y match
> to anything. So the result of applying the rule will be given to the rule
> and on and on ...
> This is a hard thing for rule based systems.
> but I plan to have generic rules classes of operations.
>
> Thanks for your feedback
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Alan Thompson wrote:
>
>> Hi - This looks great!  Did you look at Mathematica at all?  They have
>> been doing symbolic algebra for many years, and you might get some ideas
>> there.
>>
>> Also, I noticed that you don't have any commutative rules listed, eg:
>>
>> (rule ['+ x y]  :=>  ['+ y x])
>>
>> Wouldn't this reduce some of the duplication in your rules example?
>> Good luck!
>> Alan Thompson
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 AM, David Nolen wrote:
>>
>>> A very cool of use of core.logic, look forward to seeing where it goes :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Maik Schünemann <
>>> maikschuenem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hello,
 I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer
 of code.
 I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
 foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
 expressions syntactically
 and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of
 core.matrix.

 I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and
 also the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
 represent an expression,
 a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
 http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog
 post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html

 Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a
 concrete use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I
 get the better I can make the
 library.


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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Maik Schünemann]

Hi Alan.
Yes I looked at Mathematica even read a paper about its internal
implementation and that it is at its core basically a rewrite system!
(I also mentioned that in my proposal)
this commutative rule would cause an infinite loop because x and y match to
anything. So the result of applying the rule will be given to the rule and
on and on ...
This is a hard thing for rule based systems.
but I plan to have generic rules classes of operations.

Thanks for your feedback


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Alan Thompson wrote:

> Hi - This looks great!  Did you look at Mathematica at all?  They have
> been doing symbolic algebra for many years, and you might get some ideas
> there.
>
> Also, I noticed that you don't have any commutative rules listed, eg:
>
> (rule ['+ x y]  :=>  ['+ y x])
>
> Wouldn't this reduce some of the duplication in your rules example?
> Good luck!
> Alan Thompson
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 AM, David Nolen wrote:
>
>> A very cool of use of core.logic, look forward to seeing where it goes :)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Maik Schünemann <
>> maikschuenem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of
>>> code.
>>> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
>>> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
>>> expressions syntactically
>>> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of
>>> core.matrix.
>>>
>>> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and
>>> also the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
>>> represent an expression,
>>> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
>>> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog
>>> post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>>>
>>> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a
>>> concrete use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I
>>> get the better I can make the
>>> library.
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>>> your first post.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>>>
>>
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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Alan Thompson]

Hi - This looks great!  Did you look at Mathematica at all?  They have been
doing symbolic algebra for many years, and you might get some ideas there.

Also, I noticed that you don't have any commutative rules listed, eg:

(rule ['+ x y]  :=>  ['+ y x])

Wouldn't this reduce some of the duplication in your rules example?
Good luck!
Alan Thompson


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 AM, David Nolen  wrote:

> A very cool of use of core.logic, look forward to seeing where it goes :)
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Maik Schünemann <
> maikschuenem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of
>> code.
>> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
>> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
>> expressions syntactically
>> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of
>> core.matrix.
>>
>> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and
>> also the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
>> represent an expression,
>> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
>> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog
>> post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>>
>> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a concrete
>> use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I get the
>> better I can make the
>> library.
>>
>>
>>  --
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
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>> your first post.
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Re: GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[David Nolen]

A very cool of use of core.logic, look forward to seeing where it goes :)


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Maik Schünemann  wrote:

> Hello,
> I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of
> code.
> I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the
> foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate
> expressions syntactically
> and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of
> core.matrix.
>
> I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and also
> the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to
> represent an expression,
> a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
> http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog
> post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html
>
> Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a concrete
> use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I get the
> better I can make the
> library.
>
>
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GSOC Algebraic Expressions

[Maik Schünemann]

Hello,
I am glad to announce that my proposal got accepted for google summer of 
code.
I am doing the algebraic expression project idea which could lay the 
foundation for a clojure CAS System by providing a library to manipulate 
expressions syntactically
and also solving equations and optimizing them for evaluation on top of 
core.matrix.

I have created a blog post in which I explained it in more detail and also 
the design decisions I have to make in the beginning, such as how to 
represent an expression,
a rule, how to deal with core.logic ...
http://kimavcrp.blogspot.de/201blog 
post3/05/gsoc-project-algebraic-expressions-pre.html

Please comment if you have feedback or feature request or have a concrete 
use case for what you would want to use it. The more feedback I get the 
better I can make the
library. 


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