Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-18 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 1/15/2016 7:19 PM, mozzis wrote:

Well, CMAKE is the thing that is conflating this idea of a “generator”
(which is clearly a concept in CMAKE’s own domain of “build
configuration generator”) with the idea of “platform” or “architecture”
(which is a concept in the domain of certain kinds of build tools, such
as a C compiler.) It would be healthier if platform/arch were broken out
as a separate item in CMAKE, i.e. CMAKE recognizes that some build tools
have this concept, but is (possibly) agnostic about how it is
represented. I assume that it is not really possible to do so in the
config files that drive CMAKE at present, only because I have never seen
it done and did not find it when I went looking. Instead, that
information is scattered across several files in the CMakeFiles folder.


So, in CMake it currently supports one platform/arch at a time.  This is 
because of support for system introspection (trycompile/tryrun).



configurations. The resulting build time was cut by a factor of 5, plus
it became much easier (for me anyways) to be able to do things like
change the output file names based on platform, something I have so far
found impossible to do with CMake. [Once again, it really has no concept
of this.]


I really can't believe the build was faster, that just does not sound 
possible.  At the end of the day CMake gives VS  a list of files and VS 
compiles them.  If you want something really fast with VS, use the CMake 
ninja generator instead of VS and get builds that are significantly 
faster than VS IDE builds.  I would like to see a real example of that 
which I can reproduce, because we could modify CMake to create a similar 
project file.  The only thing that could improve build times that much 
is adding the /MP flag, but that can be done with CMake right now. (see 
my blog http://www.kitware.com/blog/home/post/434)


CMake does have the ability to change output names based on 
configuration with target properties.  However, the VS project files are 
not intended to be changed but only generated.  The changes should all 
happen in the CMake input files or the next time you run CMake all the 
changes will be lost.  CMake is not intended to create an IDE file that 
then can be changed/maintained on its own.  It will be erased and 
overwritten as soon as there is any change in a CMake input file used to 
generate it.


I would do the same thing for OpenCV, but it is ten times worse than
HDF5 in this regard. For instance, apparently project files are modified
/as part of the MSVS build process/, so that Visual Studio always
complains about project files needing to be reloaded after a build. This
is a recipe for mysterious bugs that you will never be able to fix.
That sounds like something wrong in the OpenCV CMake files, it should 
not rerun cmake with each build.


I have created/maintained multi-platform projects, and I find that the
effort needed to produce efficient, readable makefiles for each platform
is worth it. Once done, I can change the platform or the library type or
similar parameters by changing one switch in each platform’s makefile.
Plus there are fewer gotchas at runtime, as not querying the build
environment for every build ensures more consistent behavior in the
binaries I am going to distribute.

If you have the time to maintain hand crafted makefiles/IDE project 
files then more power to you.  Also, I assume that every developer on 
your project knows how to make changes to each platforms build files 
when they want to add a new source file or library.

Thanks again to all for the comments on this thread. It is good to know
that development continues on this tool. At some point, it may become
more interesting for me.

I really don't care if you use CMake or not.  However, I want to make 
sure that I clear up any misconceptions that this thread may raise for 
others.  To sum things up:


- CMake is a cross platform build generator, the makefiles/IDE/build 
files that it generates are not meant to be human readable and 
especially human editable. The way to change what happens in the build 
has to be done by changing either the source CMakeLists.txt files or the 
CMakaCache.txt and not the build files.  This is because the build files 
are written over each time CMake is run.


- CMake is setup to make it easier for cross platform development with a 
team of developers that only needs to know how to add sources and modify 
the build by changing the input to CMake.  They are not required to know 
how to edit and maintain files for make/ninja/VS 9,10,11,12,13,14, Xcode 
various versions.


- You should use out of source builds and once a build generator is 
picked (VS some version, make, ninja, ect), You can not change that 
build generator without erasing the directory or creating a new one.


- It might be possible in future versions of CMake that VS IDEs support 
64/32 bit builds like they support release/debug right now, but 
currently this is not supported in a 

Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-16 Thread iosif neitzke

http://reactiongifs.me/krysten-ritter-eyeroll/
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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread mozzis
>You can not change the generator.  It is better to remove the entire 
>build tree.  Out of source builds are a best practice with CMake.  Once 
>a build tree has been configured with one compiler, it must be 
>completely removed to change to a new compiler

Clearly, "can not" is incorrect, since I did. "must be" seems also
incorrect.
It seems like the developers don't understand about 32-bit vs. 64-bit
builds, or don't intend for this tool to be used with software that is a
product. Determining that after painstakingly configuring all of the build
options, the user must throw it all away in order to build for the other
"bitness", seems wrong. Almost anyone that is intending to build software
that can be installed (without the end user having to build it from source
every time, that way lies madness) needs to produce a 32-bit and a 64-bit
package these days.

>CMake creates VS projects that should 
>work to build the project that is the goal. I don't understand about 
>make and MSVS, CMake can create makefiles or ninja files if that is what 
>you are talking about. 

The VC project files produced by the CMAKE system for OpenCV use absolute
paths and use them throughout the project files, rather than defining things
at top-level and then using predetermined macros like $(TargetDir) and
$(TargetName), to say nothing of conveniences like $(PlatformTarget). I
don't really know if that is inherent in how CMAKE generates the project
files or if there is a way to produce more easily maintainable project
files, but every time I have to utilize a project that involves CMAKE I
cringe because of the ugly project files it produces. The makefiles produced
have been the same way, with the same absolute paths occurring over and over
in the file. I do not like this, as it makes the project files/makefiles
difficult to debug or maintain. Having expressed this dislike here, I feel
much better and will probably not think about this much in the future, up
until the point I have to update to a new version of a library such as
OpenCV or HDF5. Then I will cringe; pick through all of the settings and
generate the makefiles/project files again; debug the results for a day or
so until the builds actually, you know, work; and then do my little
edit-and-regenerate trick to build for the other architecture. Because the
design of CMAKE does not recognize that the results of "try-compile" tests
are orthogonal to settings like "build module A" or "build shared
libraries", so that the latter should not depend upon the former.




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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread J Decker
know if that is inherent in how CMAKE generates the project
> files or if there is a way to produce more easily maintainable project
> files, but every time I have to utilize a project that involves CMAKE I
> cringe because of the ugly project files it produces. The makefiles produced
> have been the same way, with the same absolute paths occurring over and over
> in the file. I do not like this, as it makes the project files/makefiles
> difficult to debug or maintain. Having expressed this dislike here, I feel
> much better and will probably not think about this much in the future, up
> until the point I have to update to a new version of a library such as
> OpenCV or HDF5. Then I will cringe; pick through all of the settings and
> generate the makefiles/project files again; debug the results for a day or
> so until the builds actually, you know, work; and then do my little
> edit-and-regenerate trick to build for the other architecture. Because the
> design of CMAKE does not recognize that the results of "try-compile" tests
> are orthogonal to settings like "build module A" or "build shared
> libraries", so that the latter should not depend upon the former.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://cmake.3232098.n2.nabble.com/Changing-the-the-current-generator-in-CMake-GUI-tp7587876p7592499.html
> Sent from the CMake mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
>
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the CMake FAQ at: 
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> Kitware offers various services to support the CMake community. For more 
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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 1/15/2016 11:26 AM, mozzis wrote:

You can not change the generator.  It is better to remove the entire
build tree.  Out of source builds are a best practice with CMake.  Once
a build tree has been configured with one compiler, it must be
completely removed to change to a new compiler


Clearly, "can not" is incorrect, since I did. "must be" seems also
incorrect.


You can do it by changing the CMakeCache.txt file, but it won't work in 
the general case.  You should put them in separate directories: build-32 
and build-64.

It seems like the developers don't understand about 32-bit vs. 64-bit
builds, or don't intend for this tool to be used with software that is a
product. Determining that after painstakingly configuring all of the build
options, the user must throw it all away in order to build for the other
"bitness", seems wrong. Almost anyone that is intending to build software
that can be installed (without the end user having to build it from source
every time, that way lies madness) needs to produce a 32-bit and a 64-bit
package these days.


You can build both 32 and 64 from the same SOURCE tree, just not the 
same build tree.


src
build32   (cmake ../src -G"Visual Studio 10 2010")
build64   (cmake ../src -G"Visual Studio 10 2010 Win64")

You seem to be trying to reuse the same build tree for different builds 
which is not a supported use case.  I think if you stopped doing that 
your life might get easier when working with CMake projects.



-Bill

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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread Greg Marr
Bill Hoffman wrote:
You can do it by changing the CMakeCache.txt file, but it won't work in 
the general case.  You should put them in separate directories: build-32 
and build-64.

You can build both 32 and 64 from the same SOURCE tree, just not the 
same build tree.

build32   (cmake ../src -G"Visual Studio 10 2010")
build64   (cmake ../src -G"Visual Studio 10 2010 Win64")

You seem to be trying to reuse the same build tree for different builds 
which is not a supported use case.  I think if you stopped doing that 
your life might get easier when working with CMake projects.


You can do both in the same solution/projects with the Microsoft fork of CMake, 
but it's not a general solution, and it doesn't handle different settings for 
32 bit and 64 bit.  Because of that, they're "not pushing too hard" for it to 
be in mainline CMake.

https://cmake.org/pipermail/cmake/2015-August/061346.html

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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 1/15/2016 2:41 PM, Greg Marr wrote:

You can do both in the same solution/projects with the Microsoft fork
of CMake, but it's not a general solution, and it doesn't handle
different settings for 32 bit and 64 bit.  Because of that, they're
"not pushing too hard" for it to be in mainline CMake.

https://cmake.org/pipermail/cmake/2015-August/061346.html


Yes, and things like CMAKE_SIZEOF_VOID_P would not have valid values. 
However, if you want cmake builds to work, you should never change the 
generator in a CMakeCache.txt file, it is going to more often than not 
cause problems.  A build tree should be configured with one generator 
and if you need another generator you should use a different directory 
and a different build tree sharing the same source tree.


-Bill
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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread Greg Marr
Bill Hoffman wrote:
>On 1/15/2016 2:41 PM, Greg Marr wrote:
>> You can do both in the same solution/projects with the Microsoft fork
>> of CMake, but it's not a general solution, and it doesn't handle
>> different settings for 32 bit and 64 bit. 
>
>Yes, and things like CMAKE_SIZEOF_VOID_P would not have valid values. 

Correct, so if you require different settings based on that value, you can't 
use this solution.  However, if you never look at it, then this may work for 
you.

> However, if you want cmake builds to work, you should never change the 
> generator in a CMakeCache.txt file, it is going to more often than not 
> cause problems.  A build tree should be configured with one generator 
> and if you need another generator you should use a different directory 
> and a different build tree sharing the same source tree.

Absolutely, that's why this is a single generator and is generated once.  

Unfortunately, the different settings limitation of this solution is 
rather...limiting.  It would be really nice if this could be made to work with 
different settings for the different CPU architectures (mostly just library 
paths for my past uses), just like native Visual Studio, XCode, Eclipse, and 
Android Studio projects do, but that would apparently be a very major change.

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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-15 Thread mozzis
Well, CMAKE is the thing that is conflating this idea of a "generator" (which 
is clearly a concept in CMAKE's own domain of "build configuration generator") 
with the idea of "platform" or "architecture" (which is a concept in the domain 
of certain kinds of build tools, such as a C compiler.) It would be healthier 
if platform/arch were broken out as a separate item in CMAKE, i.e. CMAKE 
recognizes that some build tools have this concept, but is (possibly) agnostic 
about how it is represented. I assume that it is not really possible to do so 
in the config files that drive CMAKE at present, only because I have never seen 
it done and did not find it when I went looking. Instead, that information is 
scattered across several files in the CMakeFiles folder.

Thank you for the hints and examples about using batch files. I may try to 
implement that scheme for building support libraries that come dependent on 
CMake. But I don't believe that I will ever use CMake for any product I am in 
control of, mainly because I have seen what an unmaintainable mess it creates 
for project files. And at least partly as a result, since there is no direct 
comprehension on the part of the developer/maintainer as to the project file 
structure, it becomes impossible to adequately manage that structure, so making 
large-scale improvements is nearly impossible without starting over from 
scratch. In addition, the build process becomes way inefficient. For example, 
once when I was really at loose ends due to a management blow-up, I reworked 
the build system for HDF5 on Visual Studio so it had "normal" project files 
that could be used to build for various platforms and configurations. The 
resulting build time was cut by a factor of 5, plus it became much easier (for 
me anyways) to be able to do things like change the output file names based on 
platform, something I have so far found impossible to do with CMake. [Once 
again, it really has no concept of this.]
I would do the same thing for OpenCV, but it is ten times worse than HDF5 in 
this regard. For instance, apparently project files are modified as part of 
the MSVS build process, so that Visual Studio always complains about 
project files needing to be reloaded after a build. This is a recipe for 
mysterious bugs that you will never be able to fix.

I have created/maintained multi-platform projects, and I find that the effort 
needed to produce efficient, readable makefiles for each platform is worth it. 
Once done, I can change the platform or the library type or similar parameters 
by changing one switch in each platform's makefile. Plus there are fewer 
gotchas at runtime, as not querying the build environment for every build 
ensures more consistent behavior in the binaries I am going to distribute.

Thanks again to all for the comments on this thread. It is good to know that 
development continues on this tool. At some point, it may become more 
interesting for me.

From: J Decker [via CMake] [mailto:ml-node+s3232098n7592504...@n2.nabble.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 1:10 PM
To: Morris Maynard <mor...@maynidea.com>
Subject: Re: Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:26 AM, mozzis <[hidden 
email]> wrote:
>
> Clearly, "can not" is incorrect, since I did. "must be" seems also
> incorrect.
Changing Generator is not exactly the same idea of what you're doing
1) If you actually chaned from VS 2010 to VS2012 or more radically to
MinGW Makefiles and redid the build, you would have only partially
correct results.  And actually even changing the bitness you already
have products built (.obj files) which won't be retriggered to compile
to some other flavor since the .obj will aready be newer than the
source so you'd have to do a rebuild.

> It seems like the developers don't understand about 32-bit vs. 64-bit
> builds, or don't intend for this tool to be used with software that is a
> product. Determining that after painstakingly configuring all of the build
> options, the user must throw it all away in order to build for the other
> "bitness", seems wrong. Almost anyone that is intending to build software
> that can be installed (without the end user having to build it from source
> every time, that way lies madness) needs to produce a 32-bit and a 64-bit
> package these days.
>

This is 2 different packages, 2 different targets, (4 if you
distribute debug versions also).  The packing stage will really expect
separate targets.  However, I solve this by making simple 'makeit.bat'
scripts.  copy and replace the generator and go.  But it also sounds
like you're trying to get Cmake to play with existing builds instead
of treating cmake as the primary build system.  I fought with this a
bit and was discusted myself in the lack of conformance to default
project $(outputdir)/$(targetname) stuff.  Was expectin

Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-14 Thread mozzis
I was able to edit CMakeCache.txt and CPackConfig.cmake (with CMake GUI
closed)
 I changed 
  CMAKE_GENERATOR:INTERNAL=Visual Studio 10 2010 Win64 
to
  CMAKE_GENERATOR:INTERNAL=Visual Studio 10 2010

and then in general looked for the string "64" and made appropriate changes.
I then started CMake GUI, noted that the "Current Generator" was to my
liking, and did Configure and Generate steps again.

All in all, doesn't seem that it would be too hard for CMake devs to
implement a function to do this, but IMO Cmake is a mistake anyway, I only
use it when forced (e.g., OpenCV.) CMake butchers MS Visual Studio project
files, and makes it much harder to maintain projects that use it. Which I
guess is kind of the opposite of the intended effect. More intelligent use
of existing macros for both make and MSVS would go a long way to making it
useful.



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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2016-01-14 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 1/14/2016 3:02 PM, mozzis wrote:

I was able to edit CMakeCache.txt and CPackConfig.cmake (with CMake GUI
closed)
  I changed
   CMAKE_GENERATOR:INTERNAL=Visual Studio 10 2010 Win64
to
   CMAKE_GENERATOR:INTERNAL=Visual Studio 10 2010

and then in general looked for the string "64" and made appropriate changes.
I then started CMake GUI, noted that the "Current Generator" was to my
liking, and did Configure and Generate steps again.
You can not change the generator.  It is better to remove the entire 
build tree.  Out of source builds are a best practice with CMake.  Once 
a build tree has been configured with one compiler, it must be 
completely removed to change to a new compiler.  You are changing from 
32 bit to 64 bit, this means that all the try-compile stuff needs to be 
re-run as the answers are likely to be different.


All in all, doesn't seem that it would be too hard for CMake devs to
implement a function to do this, but IMO Cmake is a mistake anyway, I only
use it when forced (e.g., OpenCV.) CMake butchers MS Visual Studio project
files, and makes it much harder to maintain projects that use it. Which I
guess is kind of the opposite of the intended effect. More intelligent use
of existing macros for both make and MSVS would go a long way to making it
useful.
Thanks for the praise...  :)   CMake creates VS projects that should 
work to build the project that is the goal. I don't understand about 
make and MSVS, CMake can create makefiles or ninja files if that is what 
you are talking about.


-Bill
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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-14 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 7/12/2014 8:17 AM, Bill Hoffman wrote:

You can use clear cache.

Just to be clear.  If you want to change the current generator, you can use
File - Delete Cache.
Then you will be able to select a new generator for that directory.  I 
guess the GUI could be change to have a change generator button that 
gave a big huge warning that it Cache was getting deleted could be done. 
  Or we could address it with documentation.  We do welcome 
contributions if you are interested.


See:

https://github.com/Kitware/CMake/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.rst


Thanks.

-Bill

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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-12 Thread Edward Diener

On 7/11/2014 11:01 AM, Bill Hoffman wrote:

On 7/11/2014 10:33 AM, Edward Diener wrote:

Shouldn't there be a way to change the current generator in the CMake
GUI ? It seems like I can only do this if I choose a new Where to build
the binaries path. But what if I just want to change the current
generator to something else using the current outpath path ?

No, once the generator is set and you have run cmake once, you need to
create a new build tree or wipe out the one you created the first time.
  CMake stores a bunch of information about the compiler in the cache
and other files in the build tree.  It does not know how to change all
that without a clean tree.


It does not seem like cleaning the build tree from within the CMake GUI 
should be a hard programming task, if the end-user wishes to change the 
current generator. Nonetheless thanks for the information.



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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-12 Thread Bill Hoffman
You can use clear cache.
On Jul 12, 2014 5:05 AM, Edward Diener eldlistmaili...@tropicsoft.com
wrote:

 On 7/11/2014 11:01 AM, Bill Hoffman wrote:

 On 7/11/2014 10:33 AM, Edward Diener wrote:

 Shouldn't there be a way to change the current generator in the CMake
 GUI ? It seems like I can only do this if I choose a new Where to build
 the binaries path. But what if I just want to change the current
 generator to something else using the current outpath path ?

 No, once the generator is set and you have run cmake once, you need to
 create a new build tree or wipe out the one you created the first time.
   CMake stores a bunch of information about the compiler in the cache
 and other files in the build tree.  It does not know how to change all
 that without a clean tree.


 It does not seem like cleaning the build tree from within the CMake GUI
 should be a hard programming task, if the end-user wishes to change the
 current generator. Nonetheless thanks for the information.


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 Kitware offers various services to support the CMake community. For more
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 CMake Support: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/support.html
 CMake Consulting: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/consulting.html
 CMake Training Courses: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/training.html

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 opensource/opensource.html

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[CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-11 Thread Edward Diener
Shouldn't there be a way to change the current generator in the CMake 
GUI ? It seems like I can only do this if I choose a new Where to build 
the binaries path. But what if I just want to change the current 
generator to something else using the current outpath path ?


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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-11 Thread John Drescher
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Edward Diener
eldlistmaili...@tropicsoft.com wrote:
 Shouldn't there be a way to change the current generator in the CMake GUI ?
 It seems like I can only do this if I choose a new Where to build the
 binaries path. But what if I just want to change the current generator to
 something else using the current outpath path ?


You can also do this if you reset the cache in cmake-gui.

John
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Re: [CMake] Changing the the current generator in CMake GUI

2014-07-11 Thread Bill Hoffman

On 7/11/2014 10:33 AM, Edward Diener wrote:

Shouldn't there be a way to change the current generator in the CMake
GUI ? It seems like I can only do this if I choose a new Where to build
the binaries path. But what if I just want to change the current
generator to something else using the current outpath path ?
No, once the generator is set and you have run cmake once, you need to 
create a new build tree or wipe out the one you created the first time. 
 CMake stores a bunch of information about the compiler in the cache 
and other files in the build tree.  It does not know how to change all 
that without a clean tree.


-Bill

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