Re: Stus-List Portlight Replacement with VHB Tape Dow 795
When I do this project I plan on using a glass suction cup or likely two from the inside and tie them off somewhere under load. In my opinion using these in tension while provide a much more even and stronger load across the portlights, keeping them in place while they cure. I prefer to keep my stantions for what they were intended, keeping the lifelines in place for an emergency. This: http://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/FAST-CAP-Suction-Cup-Lifter-3KNF1 or similar product as was already mentioned. On Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 8:40 PM Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Robert, Thanks for further input. My plan is to follow the same idea. I like your keyhole idea to locate the window effectively. One question - did you tape the window in place and then add the 795 into the gap? Or did you put some 795 on the back of the acrylic (or the cabin side)? I feel like I'd like to get more 795 in begins the acrylic - but maybe the point is that the tape provides the holding power and the 795 is just waterproofing sealant. Mark On February 17, 2015 2:22:57 PM AST, Robert H. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I am writing to update on my portlight replacement project. The installation went perfectly and the portlight looks great. Applying a few wood blocks to the inside of the portlight with removable, double-sided poster tape was a very effective way to affix the portlight in proper alignment. It slid into position like a puzzle piece, which is good because you only get one crack at it with the VHB tape. I also have a very good feeling about the VHB / DC 795 method - though time will be the ultimate judge. I am comforted by the thought that the tape and DC 795 will allow the portlight to expand and contract with heat and cold at a different rate that the cabin top without breaking the bond (in theory, anyway). For those that are thinking of using the same technique, here’s one final tip and a few comments. The tip: I had good success using a couple of telescoping hiking poles to apply pressure to the portlight by bracing them against the lifelines while the VHB tape set up. I also used a heat gun to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. I have no leaks in any of the other portlights (yet), so I’m going to wait until the weather warms up before I start on them. I learned that the initial bond of the VHB tape is dependent on both the application of continuous pressure and the ambient temperature. The 3M data sheet does a better job of explaining this than I will. Once you have a solid bond, it will hold well even in cold conditions, but you will be doing yourself a favour if you wait for warmer conditions. Sent from Windows Mail *From:* RPH via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:06 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com I have been reading the recent posts about windows and I thought that some might be interested to hear of my experience replacing the portlights on my 1989 30 MKII. Please note that I just started the on-boat part of the project yesterday and the work is not yet complete. In late fall I made tracings of the portlights which I transfered to 1/2 inch ply. The templates were cut using a circular saw with a guide rail system and a router. I then took my templates to a local plastics manufacturer, and they made the portlights from 1/4 inch plexiglass (Bronze 2404). The edges of the portlights are bevelled at 22.5 degrees (if I remember correctly). They turned out to be very good reproductions of the factory portlights. To ready myself for the project, I also purchased 36 yards of 3M VHB 4991 Tape 1/2 x 2.3mm, 4 tubes of Dow 795 structural adhesive (I chose white over black), and a can of DEI 010301 Black High-Temperature Silicone Coating exhaust paint. Yesterday, I attended at the boat with a view to replacing only the aft, starboard portlight (because I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew). I knew that the factory portlights were glued on with a methacrylate adhesive and that they would be difficult to remove. I brought my Dremel Multimax (which is like a Fein Multimaster) and tried using a flexible scraper to get between the plexi and the cabin top. This was not effective. In the end, I used several small putty knives which easily removed the portlight. What the putty knives did not remove was the remnants of the methacrylate adhesive. I tried several different techniques to remove the adhesive but ultimately decided that the better course would be to fair the area with 3m Premium Marine Filler. After sanding the fairing compound, I held the new portlight in place while my wife traced the window opening from inside the cabin onto the protective paper film. Then I used an Exacto knife to cut the paper along the tracing and removed the paper surrounding the window opening. Next, I spray painted the inside of the portlight black
Re: Stus-List Portlight Replacement with VHB Tape Dow 795
Robert, Thanks for further input. My plan is to follow the same idea. I like your keyhole idea to locate the window effectively. One question - did you tape the window in place and then add the 795 into the gap? Or did you put some 795 on the back of the acrylic (or the cabin side)? I feel like I'd like to get more 795 in begins the acrylic - but maybe the point is that the tape provides the holding power and the 795 is just waterproofing sealant. Mark On February 17, 2015 2:22:57 PM AST, Robert H. via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I am writing to update on my portlight replacement project. The installation went perfectly and the portlight looks great. Applying a few wood blocks to the inside of the portlight with removable, double-sided poster tape was a very effective way to affix the portlight in proper alignment. It slid into position like a puzzle piece, which is good because you only get one crack at it with the VHB tape. I also have a very good feeling about the VHB / DC 795 method - though time will be the ultimate judge. I am comforted by the thought that the tape and DC 795 will allow the portlight to expand and contract with heat and cold at a different rate that the cabin top without breaking the bond (in theory, anyway). For those that are thinking of using the same technique, here’s one final tip and a few comments. The tip: I had good success using a couple of telescoping hiking poles to apply pressure to the portlight by bracing them against the lifelines while the VHB tape set up. I also used a heat gun to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. I have no leaks in any of the other portlights (yet), so I’m going to wait until the weather warms up before I start on them. I learned that the initial bond of the VHB tape is dependent on both the application of continuous pressure and the ambient temperature. The 3M data sheet does a better job of explaining this than I will. Once you have a solid bond, it will hold well even in cold conditions, but you will be doing yourself a favour if you wait for warmer conditions. Sent from Windows Mail From: RPH via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:06 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I have been reading the recent posts about windows and I thought that some might be interested to hear of my experience replacing the portlights on my 1989 30 MKII. Please note that I just started the on-boat part of the project yesterday and the work is not yet complete. In late fall I made tracings of the portlights which I transfered to 1/2 inch ply. The templates were cut using a circular saw with a guide rail system and a router. I then took my templates to a local plastics manufacturer, and they made the portlights from 1/4 inch plexiglass (Bronze 2404). The edges of the portlights are bevelled at 22.5 degrees (if I remember correctly). They turned out to be very good reproductions of the factory portlights. To ready myself for the project, I also purchased 36 yards of 3M VHB 4991 Tape 1/2 x 2.3mm, 4 tubes of Dow 795 structural adhesive (I chose white over black), and a can of DEI 010301 Black High-Temperature Silicone Coating exhaust paint. Yesterday, I attended at the boat with a view to replacing only the aft, starboard portlight (because I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew). I knew that the factory portlights were glued on with a methacrylate adhesive and that they would be difficult to remove. I brought my Dremel Multimax (which is like a Fein Multimaster) and tried using a flexible scraper to get between the plexi and the cabin top. This was not effective. In the end, I used several small putty knives which easily removed the portlight. What the putty knives did not remove was the remnants of the methacrylate adhesive. I tried several different techniques to remove the adhesive but ultimately decided that the better course would be to fair the area with 3m Premium Marine Filler. After sanding the fairing compound, I held the new portlight in place while my wife traced the window opening from inside the cabin onto the protective paper film. Then I used an Exacto knife to cut the paper along the tracing and removed the paper surrounding the window opening. Next, I spray painted the inside of the portlight black with the DEI paint so that the tape and Dow 795 will not be visible against the cabin top. I experimented with small pieces of the VHB tape and was surpised to see that it did not seem to stick too well to the cabin top even after the surface was carefully cleaned with alcohol. I decided that the fairing compound should be left to cure overnight and I will try again today. In any event, I have since read that the VHB tape needs time to reach maximum adhesion, and that it will adhere more quickly when the temperature is warmer. I'll bring a heat gun today to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. Anyway, if all goes
Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41
Of course the adhesive bond is the weak link compared to solid fiberglass or solid sheet metal. But compared to a gaping hole, it helps. An opening port light is a hole in the fiberglass. A non opening portlight secured with screws has 4-6-8 attachment points with a small surface area around the screws to absorb the load. A bonded surface has the entire length of the bond to absorb the load and restores some of the strength lost by creating the hole in the side of the cabin top. -Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, Ga From: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com To: Jean-Francois J Rivard/Atlanta/IBM@IBMUS, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 02/16/2015 07:21 PM Subject:Re: Stus-List Window Installation - 1985 41 I think the adhesive bond is still the weak link and likely the first part of the system to fail unless the glass has a defect of some sort in it Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have not used VHB tape on portlights but I have used it on many other applications, one was securing my GoPro mount to a slalom ski.. High vibrations, water, you name it. The stuff is nothing short of phenomenal. As for bonded port lights helping with structural integrity, auto manufacturers have been bonding windshields instead of using rubber strips for decades.. The main reason is to improve torsional rigidity. Regards Francois Rivard 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List We've Hatched a Deal on Hatches - Up to 35% Off MSRP - Lewmar, Vetus, Freeman, Beckson
All this talk about ports and hatches - don't know if they are cheap or not. http://www.fisheriessupply.com/promo/hatch-sale-2015?utm_source=Fisheries+Su pply+Mailing+List http://www.fisheriessupply.com/promo/hatch-sale-2015?utm_source=Fisheries+S upply+Mailing+Listutm_campaign=e88394a46b-WS-2015-0216-Hatchesutm_medium=e mailutm_term=0_32a7fd0d23-e88394a46b-86779257 utm_campaign=e88394a46b-WS-2015-0216-Hatchesutm_medium=emailutm_term=0_32 a7fd0d23-e88394a46b-86779257 Regards, Bill Coleman ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List We've Hatched a Deal on Hatches - Up to 35% Off MSRP - Lewmar, Vetus, Freeman, Beckson
Fisheries Supply is our local full service chandlery. Fisheries stocks the deep upgrade, maintenance, repair parts and supplies that West Marine does not. The owners are sailors and supporters of local yacht club events. Over the 4 decades I have been a customer they have moved from mostly supporting the PNW and Alaska commercial fishing fleet to fully committed to the pleasure boat market. I will go out of my way to buy from them to keep their business model successful. I often can find a slightly lower price on-line but the ability to touch and inspect a boat piece before purchasing is helpful. I took a quick look through the boat partnership's checkbook and the only business that I send more check to is Shilshole Bay Marina. I am not in the market for new hatches, but if I was I would take a look. For those of you not in the PNW, Fisheries' web site and phone support works well but you may need to be patient if asking complicated or specific product questions. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 8:53 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List We've Hatched a Deal on Hatches - Up to 35% Off MSRP - Lewmar, Vetus, Freeman, Beckson All this talk about ports and hatches - don't know if they are cheap or not. http://www.fisheriessupply.com/promo/hatch-sale-2015?utm_source=Fisheries+Supply+Mailing+Listutm_campaign=e88394a46b-WS-2015-0216-Hatchesutm_medium=emailutm_term=0_32a7fd0d23-e88394a46b-86779257 Regards, Bill Coleman ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List We've Hatched a Deal on Hatches - Up to 35% Off MSRP - Lewmar, Vetus, Freeman, Beckson
A lister earlier asked about less expensive hatches. Bomar makes a line of polycarbonate hatches in limited sizes. I replaced a foredeck hatch on a J30 with one. It was a close, but not exact, fit for the original. Search for Bomar 900 series polycarbonate hatches. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: All this talk about ports and hatches – don’t know if they are cheap or not. http://www.fisheriessupply.com/promo/hatch-sale-2015?utm_source=Fisheries+Supply+Mailing+Listutm_campaign=e88394a46b-WS-2015-0216-Hatchesutm_medium=emailutm_term=0_32a7fd0d23-e88394a46b-86779257 Regards, Bill Coleman ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Portlight Replacement with VHB Tape Dow 795
I am writing to update on my portlight replacement project. The installation went perfectly and the portlight looks great. Applying a few wood blocks to the inside of the portlight with removable, double-sided poster tape was a very effective way to affix the portlight in proper alignment. It slid into position like a puzzle piece, which is good because you only get one crack at it with the VHB tape. I also have a very good feeling about the VHB / DC 795 method - though time will be the ultimate judge. I am comforted by the thought that the tape and DC 795 will allow the portlight to expand and contract with heat and cold at a different rate that the cabin top without breaking the bond (in theory, anyway). For those that are thinking of using the same technique, here’s one final tip and a few comments. The tip: I had good success using a couple of telescoping hiking poles to apply pressure to the portlight by bracing them against the lifelines while the VHB tape set up. I also used a heat gun to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. I have no leaks in any of the other portlights (yet), so I’m going to wait until the weather warms up before I start on them. I learned that the initial bond of the VHB tape is dependent on both the application of continuous pressure and the ambient temperature. The 3M data sheet does a better job of explaining this than I will. Once you have a solid bond, it will hold well even in cold conditions, but you will be doing yourself a favour if you wait for warmer conditions. Sent from Windows Mail From: RPH via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:06 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I have been reading the recent posts about windows and I thought that some might be interested to hear of my experience replacing the portlights on my 1989 30 MKII. Please note that I just started the on-boat part of the project yesterday and the work is not yet complete. In late fall I made tracings of the portlights which I transfered to 1/2 inch ply. The templates were cut using a circular saw with a guide rail system and a router. I then took my templates to a local plastics manufacturer, and they made the portlights from 1/4 inch plexiglass (Bronze 2404). The edges of the portlights are bevelled at 22.5 degrees (if I remember correctly). They turned out to be very good reproductions of the factory portlights. To ready myself for the project, I also purchased 36 yards of 3M VHB 4991 Tape 1/2 x 2.3mm, 4 tubes of Dow 795 structural adhesive (I chose white over black), and a can of DEI 010301 Black High-Temperature Silicone Coating exhaust paint. Yesterday, I attended at the boat with a view to replacing only the aft, starboard portlight (because I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew). I knew that the factory portlights were glued on with a methacrylate adhesive and that they would be difficult to remove. I brought my Dremel Multimax (which is like a Fein Multimaster) and tried using a flexible scraper to get between the plexi and the cabin top. This was not effective. In the end, I used several small putty knives which easily removed the portlight. What the putty knives did not remove was the remnants of the methacrylate adhesive. I tried several different techniques to remove the adhesive but ultimately decided that the better course would be to fair the area with 3m Premium Marine Filler. After sanding the fairing compound, I held the new portlight in place while my wife traced the window opening from inside the cabin onto the protective paper film. Then I used an Exacto knife to cut the paper along the tracing and removed the paper surrounding the window opening. Next, I spray painted the inside of the portlight black with the DEI paint so that the tape and Dow 795 will not be visible against the cabin top. I experimented with small pieces of the VHB tape and was surpised to see that it did not seem to stick too well to the cabin top even after the surface was carefully cleaned with alcohol. I decided that the fairing compound should be left to cure overnight and I will try again today. In any event, I have since read that the VHB tape needs time to reach maximum adhesion, and that it will adhere more quickly when the temperature is warmer. I'll bring a heat gun today to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. Anyway, if all goes well, the plan is to first affix the VHB tape to the inside of the portlight. Then, with the portlight dry-fitted in place, I will affix a few wooden blocks to the inside of the portlight (through the cabin top window opening) using double sided poster tape. My hope is that I can then remove the protective film from the other side of the VHB tape and then fit the portlight into place like a key into a keyhole. After the tape is set, I will then fill the gap around the outside with the Dow 795.
Re: Stus-List Portlight Replacement with VHB Tape Dow 795
The tip: I had good success using a couple of telescoping hiking poles to apply pressure to the portlight by bracing them against the lifelines while the VHB tape set up. I also used a heat gun to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. Expandable shower curtain rods (with soft plastic end caps) also work well for applying holding/positioning pressure. I have a set that cover 3.5’ to 4.5’ adjustable by rotating one end. Likely purchased at that great marine store Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert H. via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:23 AM To: RPH; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Portlight Replacement with VHB Tape Dow 795 I am writing to update on my portlight replacement project. The installation went perfectly and the portlight looks great. Applying a few wood blocks to the inside of the portlight with removable, double-sided poster tape was a very effective way to affix the portlight in proper alignment. It slid into position like a puzzle piece, which is good because you only get one crack at it with the VHB tape. I also have a very good feeling about the VHB / DC 795 method - though time will be the ultimate judge. I am comforted by the thought that the tape and DC 795 will allow the portlight to expand and contract with heat and cold at a different rate that the cabin top without breaking the bond (in theory, anyway). For those that are thinking of using the same technique, here’s one final tip and a few comments. The tip: I had good success using a couple of telescoping hiking poles to apply pressure to the portlight by bracing them against the lifelines while the VHB tape set up. I also used a heat gun to warm up the cabin top before applying the portlight. I have no leaks in any of the other portlights (yet), so I’m going to wait until the weather warms up before I start on them. I learned that the initial bond of the VHB tape is dependent on both the application of continuous pressure and the ambient temperature. The 3M data sheet does a better job of explaining this than I will. Once you have a solid bond, it will hold well even in cold conditions, but you will be doing yourself a favour if you wait for warmer conditions. Sent from Windows Mail From: RPH via CnC-Listmailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:06 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com I have been reading the recent posts about windows and I thought that some might be interested to hear of my experience replacing the portlights on my 1989 30 MKII. Please note that I just started the on-boat part of the project yesterday and the work is not yet complete. In late fall I made tracings of the portlights which I transfered to 1/2 inch ply. The templates were cut using a circular saw with a guide rail system and a router. I then took my templates to a local plastics manufacturer, and they made the portlights from 1/4 inch plexiglass (Bronze 2404). The edges of the portlights are bevelled at 22.5 degrees (if I remember correctly). They turned out to be very good reproductions of the factory portlights. To ready myself for the project, I also purchased 36 yards of 3M VHB 4991 Tape 1/2 x 2.3mm, 4 tubes of Dow 795 structural adhesive (I chose white over black), and a can of DEI 010301 Black High-Temperature Silicone Coating exhaust paint. Yesterday, I attended at the boat with a view to replacing only the aft, starboard portlight (because I didn't want to bite off more than I could chew). I knew that the factory portlights were glued on with a methacrylate adhesive and that they would be difficult to remove. I brought my Dremel Multimax (which is like a Fein Multimaster) and tried using a flexible scraper to get between the plexi and the cabin top. This was not effective. In the end, I used several small putty knives which easily removed the portlight. What the putty knives did not remove was the remnants of the methacrylate adhesive. I tried several different techniques to remove the adhesive but ultimately decided that the better course would be to fair the area with 3m Premium Marine Filler. After sanding the fairing compound, I held the new portlight in place while my wife traced the window opening from inside the cabin onto the protective paper film. Then I used an Exacto knife to cut the paper along the tracing and removed the paper surrounding the window opening. Next, I spray painted the inside of the portlight black with the DEI paint so that the tape and Dow 795 will not be visible against the cabin top. I experimented with small pieces of the VHB tape and was surpised to see that it did not seem to stick too well to the cabin top even after the surface was carefully cleaned with alcohol. I
